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Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/6/2015 5:38:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Because doing something "thought of" as bad usually provides some sort of reward.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 5:51:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:38:11 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Because doing something "thought of" as bad usually provides some sort of reward.

But if you're being rewarded for it, then why wouldn't we just think it is "good".

Isn't it a good thing that rewards us with pleasure and happiness?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/6/2015 5:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

No, it could be just about anything.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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7/6/2015 6:47:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

How about curiosity, anger or rebellion?

I've done things in curiosity that probably wasn't such a "good" thing.
I've done stupid things out of anger.
And I've done things to rebel and I'm not sure why lol, it's the flesh and the spirit, trial and error, defeat and triumph, the nature of man. The flesh wars against the spirit.
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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7/6/2015 6:47:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

lol. Moral relativists smell a rat and have abandoned ship. How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/6/2015 7:06:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:47:41 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

lol. Moral relativists smell a rat and have abandoned ship. How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

How could they smell you before you arrived?
Clairvoyant olfactory senses, obviously the work of satan.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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7/6/2015 7:10:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:06:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:47:41 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

lol. Moral relativists smell a rat and have abandoned ship. How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

How could they smell you before you arrived?
Clairvoyant olfactory senses, obviously the work of satan.

How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

Say it with me Gentle Reader. "Intellectual dishonesty." That's how.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/6/2015 7:14:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:10:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:06:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:47:41 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

lol. Moral relativists smell a rat and have abandoned ship. How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

How could they smell you before you arrived?
Clairvoyant olfactory senses, obviously the work of satan.

How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

Say it with me Gentle Reader. "Intellectual dishonesty." That's how.
And which of your positions do you project onto me now?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Serato
Posts: 743
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7/6/2015 7:15:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's been my opening awareness that nobody can stray from a nature, as the nature in this context in this post is an invisible line. It's a line unwavering as a force of energy vibrating in sync to the paramount importance of highest achievement of pure wellness. You can step to either side of the line, but step too long astray and begin to stagger you shall inevitably.
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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7/6/2015 7:29:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:14:11 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:10:04 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:06:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:47:41 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

lol. Moral relativists smell a rat and have abandoned ship. How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

How could they smell you before you arrived?
Clairvoyant olfactory senses, obviously the work of satan.

How can you hold a position you are afraid to have examined?

Say it with me Gentle Reader. "Intellectual dishonesty." That's how.
And which of your positions do you project onto me now?

Nothing. The OP has asked his question 3 times now in 3 different ways. Not a single atheist is prepared to answer it.

You instead wish to talk of rats and Satan. Ask a question that requires an atheist to expose his position and he'll run or dodge.

Admittedly you're not a good example of this because you're a troll, and troll don't even pretend to want to address issues or answer questions. So really I was referring more to your non-troll buddies.

One must have an intellect in order to be intellectually dishonest.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 7:29:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Then what decides what is good and what is bad.

And why would you do what you thought was bad.

If you can assign good or bad to anything you wanted, why would you ever be doing anything bad?
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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7/6/2015 7:33:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:29:26 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Then what decides what is good and what is bad.

And why would you do what you thought was bad.

If you can assign good or bad to anything you wanted, why would you ever be doing anything bad?
Do you rely on bronze age goatherds to determine good and bad? Why would you do that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". The could just reassign the action as being "good".
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,608
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7/6/2015 7:40:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

And, some consider murder good and homosexuality bad, like in the Bible.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

Yes, homosexuality was considered bad with Bronze Age cultures, whereas modern cultures no longer do.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". The could just reassign the action as being "good".

Homosexuality, for example, was considered bad, but it really never was bad, just misunderstood.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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7/6/2015 7:43:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". The could just reassign the action as being "good".

This was answered: selfishness. Personal desire over the agreements of a social contract. They could reassign it to whatever they wish, but if they are not the victim or the judge of actions, it doesn't amount to much.

Empathy also shares a hand in that, too. I wouldn't want calculated actions to befall me, and some one else just right it off as fluid morals and it be okay, as such, I don't do that to others.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 7:51:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:40:27 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

And, some consider murder good and homosexuality bad, like in the Bible.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

Yes, homosexuality was considered bad with Bronze Age cultures, whereas modern cultures no longer do.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". They could just reassign the action as being "good".

Homosexuality, for example, was considered bad, but it really never was bad, just misunderstood.

you didn't answer any of the questions, nor did you address the subject. Thanks for obfuscating the point of this thread.

As usual.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 7:53:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:43:14 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". The could just reassign the action as being "good".

This was answered: selfishness. Personal desire over the agreements of a social contract. They could reassign it to whatever they wish, but if they are not the victim or the judge of actions, it doesn't amount to much.

Empathy also shares a hand in that, too. I wouldn't want calculated actions to befall me, and some one else just right it off as fluid morals and it be okay, as such, I don't do that to others.

So Good and Bad are assigned by social contract. So then you admit that the more people who agree on what is right and wrong, set this standard for the rest?

And selfishness is the fulfilling the desires or accruing things that society at large would disagree with?
Sharku
Posts: 96
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7/6/2015 7:54:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
People that shoplift know what they are doing it wrong, but they do it anyway either for the thrill, or to get stuff without paying.

People that murder know what they are doing is wrong, but they do it anyway because having the person dead outweighs the risk of jail.

People do things the know are wrong all the time. Usually it's because the reward is worth the risk of getting caught.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 8:04:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:29:26 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Then what decides what is good and what is bad.

And why would you do what you thought was bad.

If you can assign good or bad to anything you wanted, why would you ever be doing anything bad?

That is like me asking you, "if you know God disapproves then why would you ever do anything wrong". I don't claim to be perfect anymore than you do. I do wrong, and I make mistakes. To arbitrarily change the rules so that I am not doing wrong (when I know my actions are harmful) is intellectually dishonest.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/6/2015 8:30:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 8:04:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:29:26 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Then what decides what is good and what is bad.

And why would you do what you thought was bad.

If you can assign good or bad to anything you wanted, why would you ever be doing anything bad?


That is like me asking you, "if you know God disapproves then why would you ever do anything wrong". I don't claim to be perfect anymore than you do. I do wrong, and I make mistakes. To arbitrarily change the rules so that I am not doing wrong (when I know my actions are harmful) is intellectually dishonest.

So now what you use to discern bad behavior is the harm it does? Do you apply this consistently across the board?

you're right about one point I'm making Skeptical.

I am a sinner. I know I am a sinner, because no matter how I justify what is right and wrong, I do evil.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 8:35:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:35:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Can we discern good and bad from the functioning of nature? Apparently not, Some consider murder bad and homosexuality good.

Can we discern good and bad from how it makes us feel? Apparently not you just cited that tho an affair brings you pleasure it is bad.

Can we discern what is good or bad by consensus? Apparently not, different cultures at different times accept different actions as ethical.

So if moral judgements are subjective, fluid, and compliant to any range of arguments, WHY WHY would any one do what they thought was "bad". The could just reassign the action as being "good".

Any society that assigns murder as completely moral can not survive. A small percentage of society is naturally gay and this is not detrimental to society. Murder could be justified (assassination of malicious ruler), and homosexuality could be wrong if an entire society adopted it. The fact that these actions can be justified either way shows that they are not objective. Subjective morality is not arbitrary morality.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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7/6/2015 8:46:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 8:30:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 8:04:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 7:29:26 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:45:56 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:28:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 6:01:05 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:56:59 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:55:14 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Did you have a specific wrong in mind?

Have you ever done something you thought was wrong? Why do you think it wrong? Why did you do it?

We do wrong because it brings some sort of pleasure, and that is (at the time) a higher priority than being moral. Selfishness, I suppose.

I thought if something brought pleasure it was good to do.

Not always. The pleasure an affair could bring me would not counteract the displeasure of losing my family. The pleasure of consuming stolen goods is not worth the displeasure of going to jail, paying fines, or the stigma associated with being a theif.

It is not just about my pleasure, either. I can derive pleasure by helping others when the act might not actually bring me any direct benefit.

Then what decides what is good and what is bad.

And why would you do what you thought was bad.

If you can assign good or bad to anything you wanted, why would you ever be doing anything bad?


That is like me asking you, "if you know God disapproves then why would you ever do anything wrong". I don't claim to be perfect anymore than you do. I do wrong, and I make mistakes. To arbitrarily change the rules so that I am not doing wrong (when I know my actions are harmful) is intellectually dishonest.

So now what you use to discern bad behavior is the harm it does? Do you apply this consistently across the board?

That is one obvious way I can see to determine the morality of our decisions. I try.

you're right about one point I'm making Skeptical.

I am a sinner. I know I am a sinner, because no matter how I justify what is right and wrong, I do evil.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/6/2015 8:47:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?

Because it simply feels good to be bad once in awhile! I love it. Addicted to it. Sometimes it even gives me a hard-on.

LOL.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,608
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7/6/2015 8:50:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 8:47:33 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/6/2015 5:32:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
If good and bad are subjective opinions.

And we decide on what is good or bad.

And we decide on when going against nature is good or bad.

And we decide on when going with nature is good or bad.

Then why would you ever do something you thought was "bad"?


Because it simply feels good to be bad once in awhile! I love it. Addicted to it. Sometimes it even gives me a hard-on.

So, you just sit there masturbating whenever you start a new thread or post in the science forum? Eww.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth