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A challenge, perhaps?

lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/8/2015 9:40:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

Thank you for the reply, appreciate it.

Lol, I didn't know you had to be a member. Saw it in a newspaper a while back and remembered the title.
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/8/2015 11:54:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:40:44 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

Thank you for the reply, appreciate it.

Lol, I didn't know you had to be a member. Saw it in a newspaper a while back and remembered the title. : :

It's good to know that God's scientists are being shown the way to His invisible Kingdom of waves.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/9/2015 7:50:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.

I have talked to several physicists, biologists and others who study the intricate details of the invisible world and came to believe there has to be a designer.

Start watching some new videos about quantum mechanics, consciousness, metaphysics, etc. and learn what is happening out there beyond your little world.
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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7/9/2015 7:54:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 7:50:06 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.

I have talked to several physicists, biologists and others who study the intricate details of the invisible world and came to believe there has to be a designer.

Start watching some new videos about quantum mechanics, consciousness, metaphysics, etc. and learn what is happening out there beyond your little world.

No thanks, BoG. You are delusional and will be banned again soon. Bye bye.
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/9/2015 8:04:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 7:54:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:50:06 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.

I have talked to several physicists, biologists and others who study the intricate details of the invisible world and came to believe there has to be a designer.

Start watching some new videos about quantum mechanics, consciousness, metaphysics, etc. and learn what is happening out there beyond your little world.

No thanks, BoG. You are delusional and will be banned again soon. Bye bye. : :

When you report me like you've done before, then I'll be banned.
Najs
Posts: 113
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7/9/2015 8:17:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

I am currently in the process of studying this myself.
I like the way you think....
dee-em
Posts: 6,451
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7/9/2015 8:17:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 8:04:16 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:54:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:50:06 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.

I have talked to several physicists, biologists and others who study the intricate details of the invisible world and came to believe there has to be a designer.

Start watching some new videos about quantum mechanics, consciousness, metaphysics, etc. and learn what is happening out there beyond your little world.

No thanks, BoG. You are delusional and will be banned again soon. Bye bye. : :

When you report me like you've done before, then I'll be banned.

I haven't reported you because you haven't badly derailed this thread, at least. However, knowing you, it won't be long.
Najs
Posts: 113
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7/9/2015 8:20:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

I read the portion that was visible, good so far. I'm not a member though.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/9/2015 8:21:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Since they demand I subscribe, no, I won't. I don't need to since I am fully aware of what science is doing and I don't need a religious apologist to tell me about it. It's an opinion piece and it's a flawed, biased opinion at best.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/9/2015 9:31:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 8:17:24 AM, Najs wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

I am currently in the process of studying this myself.
I like the way you think.... : :

Most people are comfortable with old ideas and when anything new is presented in this world, they are skeptical of them. You can see how skeptical some of the members are in this forum. They do not have the positive attitude that anything is possible.

Knowing God, anything is possible. Quantum physics shows us that this is true. Now they're talking about building computers using quantum mechanics that will be much faster than any computer we have today. This was only a dream 20 years ago but now they're working on these ideas. It's very exciting to see that God used science to find His computing language ( Heavenly Kingdom ) that we know as waves ( vibrations ).
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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7/9/2015 9:33:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 9:31:10 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:17:24 AM, Najs wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

I am currently in the process of studying this myself.
I like the way you think.... : :

Most people are comfortable with old ideas and when anything new is presented in this world, they are skeptical of them. You can see how skeptical some of the members are in this forum. They do not have the positive attitude that anything is possible.

Knowing God, anything is possible. Quantum physics shows us that this is true. Now they're talking about building computers using quantum mechanics that will be much faster than any computer we have today. This was only a dream 20 years ago but now they're working on these ideas. It's very exciting to see that God used science to find His computing language ( Heavenly Kingdom ) that we know as waves ( vibrations ).

Hi BoG. I've got 5 bucks on 70-80 posts this time. Will you make it or will you surpass it?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/9/2015 9:34:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 8:17:38 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:04:16 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:54:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:50:06 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:59:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

No, science isn't leaning that way at all.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

If I was a gambling man, I would take that bet. You will lose.

The problem with ID'ers (really creationists in disguise) is that they have no explanation for the intelligent designer. Parsimony makes the intelligent designer redundant. That and the little matter of the fact that there is no evidence for design. ID has been and always will be pseudo-science.

I have talked to several physicists, biologists and others who study the intricate details of the invisible world and came to believe there has to be a designer.

Start watching some new videos about quantum mechanics, consciousness, metaphysics, etc. and learn what is happening out there beyond your little world.

No thanks, BoG. You are delusional and will be banned again soon. Bye bye. : :

When you report me like you've done before, then I'll be banned.

I haven't reported you because you haven't badly derailed this thread, at least. However, knowing you, it won't be long. : :

I don't usually derail threads. What happens is that other members began to challenge my posts about the topic of the thread and take me away from the topic. So it's the other members who derail the threads I'm in. All you have to do is look at the threads I have started to see how fast they get derailed by other members who are not interested at all in the topic of the thread. They're only interested in attacking me as a person.
lucky59
Posts: 60
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7/9/2015 9:39:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 9:33:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/9/2015 9:31:10 AM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:17:24 AM, Najs wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

I am currently in the process of studying this myself.
I like the way you think.... : :

Most people are comfortable with old ideas and when anything new is presented in this world, they are skeptical of them. You can see how skeptical some of the members are in this forum. They do not have the positive attitude that anything is possible.

Knowing God, anything is possible. Quantum physics shows us that this is true. Now they're talking about building computers using quantum mechanics that will be much faster than any computer we have today. This was only a dream 20 years ago but now they're working on these ideas. It's very exciting to see that God used science to find His computing language ( Heavenly Kingdom ) that we know as waves ( vibrations ).

Hi BoG. I've got 5 bucks on 70-80 posts this time. Will you make it or will you surpass it? : :

It makes no difference to me how many posts I make before being banned by those foolish moderators who think they can stop God. I'll be right back in with a new account doing His work that He forces me to do in here. I have several PM's going right now so I've been quite busy.
jkerr3
Posts: 177
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7/9/2015 3:58:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:34:20 PM, lucky59 wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think. : :

I didn't read the whole story because I'm not a member but I understand where it's leading to.

Science is increasingly leaning towards the existence of a designer to what we observe and what we can't observe, which is our quantum sized reality, particularly since "consciousness" is now being considered as something important to our existence.

I have listened to many videos this past year and a half about quantum physics, metaphysics, consciousness, and the illusions of time, space and matter. I'm betting that within five years, you will see a complete turn around in the way scientists think about how we came into being. They won't have any good excuses not to believe in a designer.

Can you give some specific examples of observations that have been made that suggest an intelligent designer must have caused them?

And even if that is the case isn't it possible that they were created by aliens or maybe even humans from the future and not by "God"?
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/9/2015 4:17:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...

I suppose, but it remains a rebuttal against, and not a de-bunker, of the idea. Interesting, all the same.
I find that there isn't so much the theories and the facts that offer a case for a creator, its more the mystery and the things we cannot figure out. I get frustrated with people who call themselves creationists because, for one thing, they get so damn biased on how the earth was created while trying to prove the existence of God through creation. Makes no sense as we are a creation of God, and we dispute about His existence. Their actions are not Christian-like often.
At any rate, what either side shows is that they extract and form theories based on what already was there, and has been there for so long. That is a reason why we can't settle down about this. As Christians, we see the handiwork of God; its His creation, what He has done to so finely tune the universe, there are no if or buts as to how it works. We either don't know, won't know, can't figure it out right now, or have found why "x" is there because of some "y" reason, and then we have yet to explain the "y" reason.
I think most non-Christians would look at the universe and say it is not finely tuned, and correct me if I'm wrong, for the same reasons we say it is. Mainly, that there are mysteries that we haven't found out.
"In fact, one of the most severe apparent fine tunings often referred to by creationists like Metaxas is that of the so-called cosmological constant, the energy of empty space that has recently been discovered to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate over time. It remains one of the biggest mysteries(to who? us. why? we don't understand the way it works) in physics, as it appears to be over a hundred and twenty orders of magnitude smaller than our theories suggest it could be. And if it were as large as the theories suggest it should be, then galaxies, stars, and planets would never have formed."(quote from rebuttal).

Just some thoughts.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/9/2015 4:22:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 4:17:48 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...

I suppose, but it remains a rebuttal against, and not a de-bunker, of the idea. Interesting, all the same.
I find that there isn't so much the theories and the facts that offer a case for a creator, its more the mystery and the things we cannot figure out. I get frustrated with people who call themselves creationists because, for one thing, they get so damn biased on how the earth was created while trying to prove the existence of God through creation. Makes no sense as we are a creation of God, and we dispute about His existence. Their actions are not Christian-like often.
At any rate, what either side shows is that they extract and form theories based on what already was there, and has been there for so long. That is a reason why we can't settle down about this. As Christians, we see the handiwork of God; its His creation, what He has done to so finely tune the universe, there are no if or buts as to how it works. We either don't know, won't know, can't figure it out right now, or have found why "x" is there because of some "y" reason, and then we have yet to explain the "y" reason.
I think most non-Christians would look at the universe and say it is not finely tuned, and correct me if I'm wrong, for the same reasons we say it is. Mainly, that there are mysteries that we haven't found out.
"In fact, one of the most severe apparent fine tunings often referred to by creationists like Metaxas is that of the so-called cosmological constant, the energy of empty space that has recently been discovered to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate over time. It remains one of the biggest mysteries(to who? us. why? we don't understand the way it works) in physics, as it appears to be over a hundred and twenty orders of magnitude smaller than our theories suggest it could be. And if it were as large as the theories suggest it should be, then galaxies, stars, and planets would never have formed."(quote from rebuttal).

Just some thoughts.

All the author is saying is that we don't know and that assertions that anyone does know are without merit. To make a claim of knowledge you must be able to show where that knowledge comes from, how it could be falsified if it were wrong, and the attempts made to falsify it that failed. Only then can you truly call it knowledge.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/9/2015 4:37:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Same old arguments for ID.

Which thus far has not come up with ONE aspect of the known Universe that cannot be explained by current Atheist Cosmologists and Biologists.

I could not help but notice as well the date of the article in the WSJ. Christmas!! Seems that uber-conservative/right wing periodical wanted to some sort of feature topic on that.

ID actually poses more questions that it answers, BTW.

Look, all the stuff in the article is old hat. In fact we here on DDO have argued some of those points they posited. And on every thread I have seen pertaining to same, it seemed the science guys always trumped.

As far as a "fine tuned" Universe that hints to a Creator: why, then, all the empty space? Since 99.999% of the known Universe is decidedly unfit for any sort of life as we know it. Or can even guess at thus far. Why would not a Creator make the Uni just big enough for us? Which would need be no bigger than our Solar System--which only comprises one backwater star system in one of the other hundreds of billions of Galaxies.

Nature as well is rife with useless and even harmful-to-life flora, fauna, and insects. (Why the millions of sub-species of beetles, for example?) Why do our own bodies contain so many design flaws and imperfections. (Our optic nerves are actually backwards, fer chrissakes! LOL.

Our upright and unprotected midsection and loins are far too vulnerable to attack.

Our lower backs suck.

Why did it take 3 billion years for life to begin?

Why did we need a Asteroid impact some 65M years ago to wipe out the Dinos, which is the only reason us homo sapiens got a chance to evolve?

I did not notice the WSJ article--which should have been in the Op-Ed section since it was so devoid of Science--not address any of these questions?

Maybe you can tell me?

Thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
jkerr3
Posts: 177
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7/9/2015 5:05:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 4:17:48 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...

I suppose, but it remains a rebuttal against, and not a de-bunker, of the idea. Interesting, all the same.
I find that there isn't so much the theories and the facts that offer a case for a creator, its more the mystery and the things we cannot figure out. I get frustrated with people who call themselves creationists because, for one thing, they get so damn biased on how the earth was created while trying to prove the existence of God through creation. Makes no sense as we are a creation of God, and we dispute about His existence. Their actions are not Christian-like often.
At any rate, what either side shows is that they extract and form theories based on what already was there, and has been there for so long. That is a reason why we can't settle down about this. As Christians, we see the handiwork of God; its His creation, what He has done to so finely tune the universe, there are no if or buts as to how it works. We either don't know, won't know, can't figure it out right now, or have found why "x" is there because of some "y" reason, and then we have yet to explain the "y" reason.
I think most non-Christians would look at the universe and say it is not finely tuned, and correct me if I'm wrong, for the same reasons we say it is. Mainly, that there are mysteries that we haven't found out.
"In fact, one of the most severe apparent fine tunings often referred to by creationists like Metaxas is that of the so-called cosmological constant, the energy of empty space that has recently been discovered to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate over time. It remains one of the biggest mysteries(to who? us. why? we don't understand the way it works) in physics, as it appears to be over a hundred and twenty orders of magnitude smaller than our theories suggest it could be. And if it were as large as the theories suggest it should be, then galaxies, stars, and planets would never have formed."(quote from rebuttal).

Just some thoughts.

How does us not understanding something equate to god having caused it? You see that is one of the flaws in human logic, historically we have always assumed "incorrectly I might add" that things we don't understand are acts of God. For example ancient people thought that hurricanes where caused by a sea God, people thought that droughts were due to God being angry at them. That is because they had no understanding of the earths climate system, people thought that plagues were caused by angry gods or demons, that is because the microscope hadn't been invented yet and people had no knowledge of what a bacteria or virus was. If history has taught us anything it's that we shouldn't assume things like that, let's just focus on the cold hard evidence and what we can extrapolate from it.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/9/2015 5:14:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 5:05:35 PM, jkerr3 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 4:17:48 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...

I suppose, but it remains a rebuttal against, and not a de-bunker, of the idea. Interesting, all the same.
I find that there isn't so much the theories and the facts that offer a case for a creator, its more the mystery and the things we cannot figure out. I get frustrated with people who call themselves creationists because, for one thing, they get so damn biased on how the earth was created while trying to prove the existence of God through creation. Makes no sense as we are a creation of God, and we dispute about His existence. Their actions are not Christian-like often.
At any rate, what either side shows is that they extract and form theories based on what already was there, and has been there for so long. That is a reason why we can't settle down about this. As Christians, we see the handiwork of God; its His creation, what He has done to so finely tune the universe, there are no if or buts as to how it works. We either don't know, won't know, can't figure it out right now, or have found why "x" is there because of some "y" reason, and then we have yet to explain the "y" reason.
I think most non-Christians would look at the universe and say it is not finely tuned, and correct me if I'm wrong, for the same reasons we say it is. Mainly, that there are mysteries that we haven't found out.
"In fact, one of the most severe apparent fine tunings often referred to by creationists like Metaxas is that of the so-called cosmological constant, the energy of empty space that has recently been discovered to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate over time. It remains one of the biggest mysteries(to who? us. why? we don't understand the way it works) in physics, as it appears to be over a hundred and twenty orders of magnitude smaller than our theories suggest it could be. And if it were as large as the theories suggest it should be, then galaxies, stars, and planets would never have formed."(quote from rebuttal).

Just some thoughts.

How does us not understanding something equate to god having caused it? You see that is one of the flaws in human logic, historically we have always assumed "incorrectly I might add" that things we don't understand are acts of God. For example ancient people thought that hurricanes where caused by a sea God, people thought that droughts were due to God being angry at them. That is because they had no understanding of the earths climate system, people thought that plagues were caused by angry gods or demons, that is because the microscope hadn't been invented yet and people had no knowledge of what a bacteria or virus was. If history has taught us anything it's that we shouldn't assume things like that, let's just focus on the cold hard evidence and what we can extrapolate from it.

Argument from Incredulity. Hard to believe this guy was a professional Astro-physicist.

But, then again..he DID say this.....

Is this a clear example of design? Of course not. If it were zero, which would be "natural" from a theoretical perspective, the universe would in fact be more hospitable to life. If the cosmological constant were different, perhaps vastly different kinds of life might have arisen. Moreover, arguing that God exists because many cosmic mysteries remain is intellectually lazy in the extreme.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/9/2015 5:47:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Good read, thank you.

I believe in a intelligent source beyond our world. However, science has actually proven to me that it is not a god(s) from religion. It is increasingly proving to me that we are all intelligent sources. As in, your higher power is you ... you can call yourself a god. I think there was an initial source that started it all (you can correlate this with the idea of god), but it also gave birth to children. So, i think there are multiple gods now, including you. However, just bc i say you are this type of source doesn't mean you are the most intelligent source. I think the afterlife is the same idea as our world when it comes to characters. There are builders, artists, scientists, actors, evil ... etc. This shows me that each and every one of us is powerful in our own way. Shakespeare said it best, "the world is a stage" so what is your character(s)?

I believe once you find your spiritual intelligence, you will be free. Free from dogma, free from others ... just be you. This is the best person you can count on.

So, in my view ... science must be perfect ... the world must exist for its purpose. We can observe its purpose every day. You can prove me wrong. Everyone will have to drop what they are doing and become one ... i do not think this will happen, bc we are all characters in a movie (reality). We are all immortal/mortal beings, we are all different. How is my view not more logical then any religion? I will admit, i evolved thanks to religion ... but, its organization is a fraud.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/9/2015 5:58:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 5:47:46 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Good read, thank you.

I believe in a intelligent source beyond our world. However, science has actually proven to me that it is not a god(s) from religion. It is increasingly proving to me that we are all intelligent sources. As in, your higher power is you ... you can call yourself a god. I think there was an initial source that started it all (you can correlate this with the idea of god), but it also gave birth to children. So, i think there are multiple gods now, including you. However, just bc i say you are this type of source doesn't mean you are the most intelligent source. I think the afterlife is the same idea as our world when it comes to characters. There are builders, artists, scientists, actors, evil ... etc. This shows me that each and every one of us is powerful in our own way. Shakespeare said it best, "the world is a stage" so what is your character(s)?

I believe once you find your spiritual intelligence, you will be free. Free from dogma, free from others ... just be you. This is the best person you can count on.

So, in my view ... science must be perfect ... the world must exist for its purpose. We can observe its purpose every day. You can prove me wrong. Everyone will have to drop what they are doing and become one ... i do not think this will happen, bc we are all characters in a movie (reality). We are all immortal/mortal beings, we are all different. How is my view not more logical then any religion? I will admit, i evolved thanks to religion ... but, its organization is a fraud.

Fascinating comment.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/9/2015 6:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 5:58:36 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:47:46 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Good read, thank you.

I believe in a intelligent source beyond our world. However, science has actually proven to me that it is not a god(s) from religion. It is increasingly proving to me that we are all intelligent sources. As in, your higher power is you ... you can call yourself a god. I think there was an initial source that started it all (you can correlate this with the idea of god), but it also gave birth to children. So, i think there are multiple gods now, including you. However, just bc i say you are this type of source doesn't mean you are the most intelligent source. I think the afterlife is the same idea as our world when it comes to characters. There are builders, artists, scientists, actors, evil ... etc. This shows me that each and every one of us is powerful in our own way. Shakespeare said it best, "the world is a stage" so what is your character(s)?

I believe once you find your spiritual intelligence, you will be free. Free from dogma, free from others ... just be you. This is the best person you can count on.

So, in my view ... science must be perfect ... the world must exist for its purpose. We can observe its purpose every day. You can prove me wrong. Everyone will have to drop what they are doing and become one ... i do not think this will happen, bc we are all characters in a movie (reality). We are all immortal/mortal beings, we are all different. How is my view not more logical then any religion? I will admit, i evolved thanks to religion ... but, its organization is a fraud.

Fascinating comment.

Thank you. I am on your side with this issue.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/9/2015 6:01:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 5:14:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/9/2015 5:05:35 PM, jkerr3 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 4:17:48 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/9/2015 8:44:33 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:13:54 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.wsj.com...

Tell me what you all think.

Here's a rebuttal by an actual Astrophysicist, just for a little perspective.

http://www.newyorker.com...

I suppose, but it remains a rebuttal against, and not a de-bunker, of the idea. Interesting, all the same.
I find that there isn't so much the theories and the facts that offer a case for a creator, its more the mystery and the things we cannot figure out. I get frustrated with people who call themselves creationists because, for one thing, they get so damn biased on how the earth was created while trying to prove the existence of God through creation. Makes no sense as we are a creation of God, and we dispute about His existence. Their actions are not Christian-like often.
At any rate, what either side shows is that they extract and form theories based on what already was there, and has been there for so long. That is a reason why we can't settle down about this. As Christians, we see the handiwork of God; its His creation, what He has done to so finely tune the universe, there are no if or buts as to how it works. We either don't know, won't know, can't figure it out right now, or have found why "x" is there because of some "y" reason, and then we have yet to explain the "y" reason.
I think most non-Christians would look at the universe and say it is not finely tuned, and correct me if I'm wrong, for the same reasons we say it is. Mainly, that there are mysteries that we haven't found out.
"In fact, one of the most severe apparent fine tunings often referred to by creationists like Metaxas is that of the so-called cosmological constant, the energy of empty space that has recently been discovered to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate over time. It remains one of the biggest mysteries(to who? us. why? we don't understand the way it works) in physics, as it appears to be over a hundred and twenty orders of magnitude smaller than our theories suggest it could be. And if it were as large as the theories suggest it should be, then galaxies, stars, and planets would never have formed."(quote from rebuttal).

Just some thoughts.

How does us not understanding something equate to god having caused it? You see that is one of the flaws in human logic, historically we have always assumed "incorrectly I might add" that things we don't understand are acts of God. For example ancient people thought that hurricanes where caused by a sea God, people thought that droughts were due to God being angry at them. That is because they had no understanding of the earths climate system, people thought that plagues were caused by angry gods or demons, that is because the microscope hadn't been invented yet and people had no knowledge of what a bacteria or virus was. If history has taught us anything it's that we shouldn't assume things like that, let's just focus on the cold hard evidence and what we can extrapolate from it.

Argument from Incredulity. Hard to believe this guy was a professional Astro-physicist.

But, then again..he DID say this.....

Is this a clear example of design? Of course not. If it were zero, which would be "natural" from a theoretical perspective, the universe would in fact be more hospitable to life. If the cosmological constant were different, perhaps vastly different kinds of life might have arisen. Moreover, arguing that God exists because many cosmic mysteries remain is intellectually lazy in the extreme.

Oh, so he's smart enough now? :P