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Sexual Immorality

UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*

Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
anonymouswho
Posts: 431
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7/10/2015 12:31:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

Sexual immorality is something I think we all must deal with. Is a homosexual any worse off than a man that sleeps with many partners, or an adulterer? And yet, with the prevalence of pornography and the cultural acceptance of "do what thou will" (Aleister Crowley), who are any of us to judge what the secular world does? We have all sinned.

"Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:1
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/10/2015 12:48:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 12:31:50 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
Sexual immorality is something I think we all must deal with. Is a homosexual any worse off than a man that sleeps with many partners, or an adulterer?

They are all just as bad for you.

who are any of us to judge what the secular world does? We have all sinned.

The point is to get people to look at things in a way to where they become aware that these things are not harmless. Certainly, accept and love those who do these things, but lets not pretend that it isn't harmful to EVERYONE.

These fetishes get in the way of being sincere to oneself, and it gets in the way of loving others.

No action is bad on its own, and indeed, all is permitted. However, not everything is beneficial.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Jedi4
Posts: 330
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7/10/2015 1:15:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
God loves everyone and wants everyone to share love. This implies we should be bisexual. Sexual freeism is the only sound theological position
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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7/10/2015 1:30:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:15:16 PM, Jedi4 wrote:
God loves everyone and wants everyone to share love. This implies we should be bisexual. Sexual freeism is the only sound theological position

You are confused. The only approved sexual position is called the missionary position. There is no known theological position outside of the emasculate conception.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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7/10/2015 1:31:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:15:16 PM, Jedi4 wrote:
God loves everyone and wants everyone to share love. This implies we should be bisexual. Sexual freeism is the only sound theological position

You are confused. The only approved sexual position is called the missionary position. There is no known theological position outside of the immaculate conception.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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7/10/2015 1:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

The only thing I would consider sexually immoral is non-consensual sex. Strange that the bible seems to be ok with it.
anonymouswho
Posts: 431
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7/10/2015 1:45:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:35:56 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

The only thing I would consider sexually immoral is non-consensual sex. Strange that the bible seems to be ok with it.

Where in the Scriptures does it ever say God is okay with non-consensual sex? Please tell me this is not where you are getting this fallacious information:

http://www.evilbible.com...
Fatihah
Posts: 7,731
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7/10/2015 2:22:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

Response: Sexual immorality such as homosexuality, prostitution, adultery and fornication, etc.. are not considered immoral by many today because people are so lustful and drawn to their own selfish desires which prevents them from seeing the harm in lust. In fact, they become so oblivious to the harm that they say as long as their is consent it is okay to have sex for your own pleasure.

Yet notice the drastic and significant emotional reactions. If you give someone money, food, clothes, or other very likable material things without consent it will not nearly draw the same emotional setback as being touched sexually without consent. Also Notice the big emotional difference when even when we do consent to giving more than one person money, food, etc., yet if one consents to sleeping with more than one person without commitment one person likely catches feelings and gets hurt. Why when there was consent and agreement before sex that there was no commitment? This goes to show that the issue is not just a lack of consent, but a lack of love. This is why sex is considered immoral, because love is not involved.

Sex is an emotional embrace, thus it should be done out of love. Not just used as some extracurricular act. We should not use such an intimate and emotional embrace just to satisfy our own desires but use it
anonymouswho
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7/10/2015 2:36:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 12:48:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/10/2015 12:31:50 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
Sexual immorality is something I think we all must deal with. Is a homosexual any worse off than a man that sleeps with many partners, or an adulterer?

They are all just as bad for you.


who are any of us to judge what the secular world does? We have all sinned.

The point is to get people to look at things in a way to where they become aware that these things are not harmless. Certainly, accept and love those who do these things, but lets not pretend that it isn't harmful to EVERYONE.

These fetishes get in the way of being sincere to oneself, and it gets in the way of loving others.

No action is bad on its own, and indeed, all is permitted. However, not everything is beneficial.

I completely agree that these things are not harmless. In fact, it is among the most harmful things we can do to ourselves. Besides the fact of sexually transmitted disease, sexual immorality interferes with our spirit. It causes us to seek out fleshy matters rather than dwell with the Spirit of God.

Imagine a man cheats on his wife. Is his adultery the only sin commited? Of course not. First he lusts after another woman, and this develops into fantasies and eventually constant idolization of the other woman. While his mind is on her, his wife is not receiving the things expected in a marriage. Their communication, desire to be in each others company, and sexual performance will only get worse and worse the longer this man continues to fantasize. Eventually the married couple will fight and let out anger and frustration towards one another: the woman because she is not receiving her due Love, and the man because his wife is not the other woman. So, the man not only sins before he commits the act, but he causes others (his wife) to be angry, jealous, and to covet and idolizes their husband. Although this is considerably more justified than the actions of the husband, these are fleshy lusts nonetheless.

When the man commits the act, we can all imagine how things can go from there. Especially if there are kids involved. Divorce strongly effects the mental development of children, and I have seen men and women both go down very dark roads after their spouse cheats on them. The feeling of loneliness and rejection is very deep with these people.

Why is it that people should feel this way? If sexual immorality is not really immoral, why is it that the bond of marriage is so devastating when broken?

I've hurt my wife many times because of my lusts and worldly desires. I know how these things can effect a family and trust between two people that made a vow before God to remain faithful. I thank God that He has never led me to actually commit adultery, but I do understand the Evil that sexual immorality brings. Thank you my friend.
DanneJeRusse
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7/10/2015 3:17:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

Hateful religious bigotry.


This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 3:28:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 2:22:38 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Sexual immorality such as homosexuality, prostitution, adultery and fornication, etc.. are not considered immoral by many today because people are so lustful and drawn to their own selfish desires which prevents them from seeing the harm in lust. In fact, they become so oblivious to the harm that they say as long as their is consent it is okay to have sex for your own pleasure.

Yet notice the drastic and significant emotional reactions. If you give someone money, food, clothes, or other very likable material things without consent it will not nearly draw the same emotional setback as being touched sexually without consent. Also Notice the big emotional difference when even when we do consent to giving more than one person money, food, etc., yet if one consents to sleeping with more than one person without commitment one person likely catches feelings and gets hurt. Why when there was consent and agreement before sex that there was no commitment? This goes to show that the issue is not just a lack of consent, but a lack of love. This is why sex is considered immoral, because love is not involved.

Sex is an emotional embrace, thus it should be done out of love. Not just used as some extracurricular act.

Right on
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 3:28:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 2:36:13 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
I completely agree that these things are not harmless. In fact, it is among the most harmful things we can do to ourselves. Besides the fact of sexually transmitted disease, sexual immorality interferes with our spirit. It causes us to seek out fleshy matters rather than dwell with the Spirit of God.

Imagine a man cheats on his wife. Is his adultery the only sin commited? Of course not. First he lusts after another woman, and this develops into fantasies and eventually constant idolization of the other woman. While his mind is on her, his wife is not receiving the things expected in a marriage. Their communication, desire to be in each others company, and sexual performance will only get worse and worse the longer this man continues to fantasize. Eventually the married couple will fight and let out anger and frustration towards one another: the woman because she is not receiving her due Love, and the man because his wife is not the other woman. So, the man not only sins before he commits the act, but he causes others (his wife) to be angry, jealous, and to covet and idolizes their husband. Although this is considerably more justified than the actions of the husband, these are fleshy lusts nonetheless.

When the man commits the act, we can all imagine how things can go from there. Especially if there are kids involved. Divorce strongly effects the mental development of children, and I have seen men and women both go down very dark roads after their spouse cheats on them. The feeling of loneliness and rejection is very deep with these people.

Why is it that people should feel this way? If sexual immorality is not really immoral, why is it that the bond of marriage is so devastating when broken?

I've hurt my wife many times because of my lusts and worldly desires. I know how these things can effect a family and trust between two people that made a vow before God to remain faithful. I thank God that He has never led me to actually commit adultery, but I do understand the Evil that sexual immorality brings. Thank you my friend.

Right on
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 3:29:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:15:16 PM, Jedi4 wrote:
God loves everyone and wants everyone to share love. This implies we should be bisexual. Sexual freeism is the only sound theological position

Christians are called to Love God and Love others.

Sex effects people in ways that are not always immediately apparent. When two become one flesh, it leaves something in each of them.

Sex also has done much to corrupt society, both in the business world and in politics.

And hey, if you want a good example of why free love doesn't work, find out where the hippies are. Just make sure to leave before you end up with the crabs or something. ;p
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
j50wells
Posts: 345
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7/10/2015 3:52:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
True, but only partly true. To understand why we are where we are we have to go back to history and how it is that we have marriage today, and how it relates to us biologically. Also, remember that many of the wild, random, sexual thoughts that you have were put there by the media and aren't natural biology.

I'm going to make this quick because I've answered these questions before. Marriage between a man and woman was not a creation of religion. We know this because all tribes, natives, and nations have always had marriage, going back thousands of years. Marriage is a biological response to a man needing a vagina, and a woman needing children. These are strong biological drives that all of nature has, including flowers and trees.
Because it takes fifteen years to raise a child to maturity, a woman needs a man who is going to stay with her and help her raise the child. Because she is going to have three or four kids, she needs a man who is going to stay with her for thirty years. Those who didn't stay together didn't survive, so they didn't pass their genes on. Those who did stay together, passed their genes on. Through evolution, monogamy became natural and normal. Even some animals in the animal kingdom are monogamous. This is why when you met your first love, you felt like you could stay with her forever.....that's monogamy.
Despite what the media and homosexual community tells you, homosexuality was not a normal part of society. Yeah, there were some native tribes that allowed it, but some tribes sacrificed their own children too, and polygamy was normal, which wasn't good for the tribe.
Generally speaking, natives and tribal men didn't want other men trying to poke them up the butt. And why? Because their urge was for the woman. Butt sex seemed grose. The smell of what came out of a butt was also grose. It was natural biology to flee from a penis that was looking for their butt. This wasn't a religious thing in which they thought the god's were going to kill them if they did have gay sex, rather it was natural biology.
You are assuming that people have all of these bizarre sexual thoughts. They don't. Today they might, but that is only because the media has told them too. Like I bet I can make you think of a pink elephant. ..........You just did, didn't you? See. Now if I tell you all day that you better not think of a pink elephant....guess what.....you're going to start thinking it. And here's where we are with the media. Push gayness on people, they are going to think gay thoughts. Push genocide on people and they are going to start to think about murdering a group of people. Tell people to think about the color of red and they will start thinking about red a lot. That's not biology, nor is it independent, free thinking.
Biologically, people do not think about gay sex, and they don't think about adultery a lot. However, they do so in modern America. The truth is that we will never get to the bottom of the truth. The gay movement has gotten so out off control that you can't even talk about truth anymore. A biologist would never be able to tell people that their biology doesn't lead to gayness. It only does for 1% of the population. 3% are gay by choice. They will never be able to talk about monogamy because today's socialist government don't like family. They want people to depend on them.
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 4:11:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 3:52:56 PM, j50wells wrote:
True, but only partly true. To understand why we are where we are we have to go back to history and how it is that we have marriage today, and how it relates to us biologically. Also, remember that many of the wild, random, sexual thoughts that you have were put there by the media and aren't natural biology.

I'm going to make this quick because I've answered these questions before. Marriage between a man and woman was not a creation of religion. We know this because all tribes, natives, and nations have always had marriage, going back thousands of years. Marriage is a biological response to a man needing a vagina, and a woman needing children. These are strong biological drives that all of nature has, including flowers and trees.
Because it takes fifteen years to raise a child to maturity, a woman needs a man who is going to stay with her and help her raise the child. Because she is going to have three or four kids, she needs a man who is going to stay with her for thirty years. Those who didn't stay together didn't survive, so they didn't pass their genes on. Those who did stay together, passed their genes on. Through evolution, monogamy became natural and normal. Even some animals in the animal kingdom are monogamous. This is why when you met your first love, you felt like you could stay with her forever.....that's monogamy.
Despite what the media and homosexual community tells you, homosexuality was not a normal part of society. Yeah, there were some native tribes that allowed it, but some tribes sacrificed their own children too, and polygamy was normal, which wasn't good for the tribe.
Generally speaking, natives and tribal men didn't want other men trying to poke them up the butt. And why? Because their urge was for the woman. Butt sex seemed grose. The smell of what came out of a butt was also grose. It was natural biology to flee from a penis that was looking for their butt. This wasn't a religious thing in which they thought the god's were going to kill them if they did have gay sex, rather it was natural biology.
You are assuming that people have all of these bizarre sexual thoughts. They don't. Today they might, but that is only because the media has told them too. Like I bet I can make you think of a pink elephant. ..........You just did, didn't you? See. Now if I tell you all day that you better not think of a pink elephant....guess what.....you're going to start thinking it. And here's where we are with the media. Push gayness on people, they are going to think gay thoughts. Push genocide on people and they are going to start to think about murdering a group of people. Tell people to think about the color of red and they will start thinking about red a lot. That's not biology, nor is it independent, free thinking.
Biologically, people do not think about gay sex, and they don't think about adultery a lot. However, they do so in modern America. The truth is that we will never get to the bottom of the truth. The gay movement has gotten so out off control that you can't even talk about truth anymore. A biologist would never be able to tell people that their biology doesn't lead to gayness. It only does for 1% of the population. 3% are gay by choice. They will never be able to talk about monogamy because today's socialist government don't like family. They want people to depend on them.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, but I was specifically relating the issue to Christian New Testament theology, which considers these things a form of idolatry.

Thanks for the input though.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
anonymouswho
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7/10/2015 4:54:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 3:28:56 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/10/2015 2:36:13 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
I completely agree that these things are not harmless. In fact, it is among the most harmful things we can do to ourselves. Besides the fact of sexually transmitted disease, sexual immorality interferes with our spirit. It causes us to seek out fleshy matters rather than dwell with the Spirit of God.

Imagine a man cheats on his wife. Is his adultery the only sin commited? Of course not. First he lusts after another woman, and this develops into fantasies and eventually constant idolization of the other woman. While his mind is on her, his wife is not receiving the things expected in a marriage. Their communication, desire to be in each others company, and sexual performance will only get worse and worse the longer this man continues to fantasize. Eventually the married couple will fight and let out anger and frustration towards one another: the woman because she is not receiving her due Love, and the man because his wife is not the other woman. So, the man not only sins before he commits the act, but he causes others (his wife) to be angry, jealous, and to covet and idolizes their husband. Although this is considerably more justified than the actions of the husband, these are fleshy lusts nonetheless.

When the man commits the act, we can all imagine how things can go from there. Especially if there are kids involved. Divorce strongly effects the mental development of children, and I have seen men and women both go down very dark roads after their spouse cheats on them. The feeling of loneliness and rejection is very deep with these people.

Why is it that people should feel this way? If sexual immorality is not really immoral, why is it that the bond of marriage is so devastating when broken?

I've hurt my wife many times because of my lusts and worldly desires. I know how these things can effect a family and trust between two people that made a vow before God to remain faithful. I thank God that He has never led me to actually commit adultery, but I do understand the Evil that sexual immorality brings. Thank you my friend.

Right on

But what are we to make of homosexual marriage? I am not trying to be a "bigot", but it seems meaningless to me. Whether one believes the Scriptures or in evolution, a man being joined with a woman to bear children and to raise these children in a stable household appears to be a fundamental aspect of our nature.

The Scriptures say the two shall be one flesh, and that this is a Mystery. It appears that child bearing is the symbolic image of this joining of the flesh. I understand that we are to be one with God and Messiah even as they are One, so perhaps this answers the mystery of marriage. We are one body in marriage, Messiah is married to the Church, and their offspring is the Children of God. How can two men/women become one flesh?

Like you said, marriage based on emotions or physical attraction cannot last. In fact, marriage based on "true love" was not an accepted practice until around the the 17th century. Here's an easy article about the history of marriage:

http://theweek.com...

We can see this practice in several Biblical stories. Look at Isaac and Rebekah. Rebekah did not even know Issac before agreeing to marry him. Yet they loved each other. Paul tells wives to submit and to obey their husbands. Many people see this as sexist, but they forget that Paul left a much longer commandment for husbands:

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." Ephesians 5:22

The fact that we are told to love our wives shows that Love is much more than a mere emotion. It is something that requires sacrifice, trust, compassion, and faith. Paul does tell us we are better off not to marry if we can handle it, but if we get married, we have found a good thing; and:

"...from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Mark 10:6
DanneJeRusse
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7/10/2015 5:21:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 3:29:03 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/10/2015 1:15:16 PM, Jedi4 wrote:
God loves everyone and wants everyone to share love. This implies we should be bisexual. Sexual freeism is the only sound theological position

Christians are called to Love God and Love others.

Based on your hateful, bigoted OP, you are no Christian.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/10/2015 5:43:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 4:54:04 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
Like you said, marriage based on emotions or physical attraction cannot last. In fact, marriage based on "true love" was not an accepted practice until around the the 17th century. Here's an easy article about the history of marriage:

We can see this practice in several Biblical stories. Look at Isaac and Rebekah. Rebekah did not even know Issac before agreeing to marry him. Yet they loved each other. Paul tells wives to submit and to obey their husbands. Many people see this as sexist, but they forget that Paul left a much longer commandment for husbands:

The fact that we are told to love our wives shows that Love is much more than a mere emotion. It is something that requires sacrifice, trust, compassion, and faith.

I'm glad you mentioned this.

It's the difference between a contract marriage, which is more or less like an insurance policy, and a covenant marriage between you, your spouse, and God. Americans don't have a sense of honor these days. With the collapse of the family, what takes its place? Who ends up raising the children? Not people who have the best interest of the children in mind. They end up getting raised by the media, which is run and operated by perverse people.

My mother had me when she was 17. My parents stayed together until death. My brother proposed to his wife the day they met. They are still married, and have two children. There are places still in the world today where arranged marriages are still in practice. They make it work.

Men and women are different. It is often times easier for men to get along with men, and women to get along with women. It's always been like this, and there is nothing wrong with it. This doesn't mean you are homosexual. People like to push this idea that men and women are the same, but no, we are not. We are very different. One isn't better or worse than the other, we are just different. It's ok.

It's easy to envy the gender role of the opposite sex, because the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence! There are reasons for traditional gender roles though, and when men and women cooperate without envying the others place, good things happen. It's also an optimal environment to raise your kids.

I'm sad at the state of families in America right now. Almost everyone I know came from some type of divorced family. It's utterly shameful. This current generation has been done a great disservice by their parents, and I can only hope that the generation following this one will have better mental health. Sadly, generational curses are a real thing.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Outplayz
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7/10/2015 6:41:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is all B.S., no offense. Why are you talking about sexual immorality? Why are we making it such a big deal? It is a pleasure (arguably the best) in this world. Why are we not taking advantage of it? Religious dogma. Religions demonizing this one pleasure we have.

I remember the first time i learned about sex. I was 6 ... and no, this isn't some child molestation story ... i found video taps and magazines, bc i was a curious brat. At first, I didn't know what i was looking at ... but, i remember, it made me feel good watching it. I would hide them in a place where i could see them again ... i even remember i was smart enough to put them back how i found them to avoid getting caught. Now, i looked at these for awhile as you can imagine ... but, i didn't figure out what it was until i reached 6th grade and went through puberty. At this point, i wanted it ... and, my middle school was pretty promiscuous. We would wear bracelets indicating what we were down for ... Head, pink bracelet ... missionary, blue bracelet and so forth. But, here is my biggest regret in life ... listening to religious dogma. I refrained. I remember, i had the consent if someone asked, but i was scared of sex.

This is poison from religion. Sex should not be demonized, just understood. Some want it for family. This type of love is selfish. It's a ... "My man/women better not touch anyone else, he/she is only mine" ... which is okay, this is just one type of love. Others love many, others want to live a life only based on lust, others are kinky, others love the same sex ... I say, freaking great ... sex it up. There is nothing wrong about this pleasure, and i am sick of religion making it appear as there is. Why do you care so much about how others choose to share love? You are selfish, you are jealous, you are something i just don't understand ... which, i know (my prophecy) in time you will fade ... these out-dated morals will fade ...

I could have technically given consent to anyone at the age of 13 when i learned of it after puberty. Now, i may have regretted some people i gave consent to, but i would have relished the experience. Through my years, i have regretted some people i slept with anyways. This is bc my tastes in sexual attraction changed through the years ... but, i have never regretted the experience. We are sexual animals ... but, we are smart enough to make choices. My choices are mine ... and, i will sue religion for emotion distress from the fear it gave me to this pleasure ending in regret ... affecting my mental capacity in viewing a beautiful pleasure as just another negative among the million in this sad planet ... i think this is evil ... i think religion is evil ... and the sheep fail to see it.

I can imagine. If i grew up understanding what sex is. Educating myself about the emotions and what i want. Looking at it as a positive pleasure. Looking at it as a consent based connection with other human beings ... i would have loved life so much more. I hate religion for taking this away from me ... you will reap what you sow.
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 7:15:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 6:41:44 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is all B.S., no offense. Why are you talking about sexual immorality? Why are we making it such a big deal? It is a pleasure (arguably the best) in this world. Why are we not taking advantage of it? Religious dogma. Religions demonizing this one pleasure we have.

I remember the first time i learned about sex. I was 6 ... and no, this isn't some child molestation story ... i found video taps and magazines, bc i was a curious brat. At first, I didn't know what i was looking at ... but, i remember, it made me feel good watching it. I would hide them in a place where i could see them again ... i even remember i was smart enough to put them back how i found them to avoid getting caught. Now, i looked at these for awhile as you can imagine ... but, i didn't figure out what it was until i reached 6th grade and went through puberty. At this point, i wanted it ... and, my middle school was pretty promiscuous. We would wear bracelets indicating what we were down for ... Head, pink bracelet ... missionary, blue bracelet and so forth. But, here is my biggest regret in life ... listening to religious dogma. I refrained. I remember, i had the consent if someone asked, but i was scared of sex.

This is poison from religion. Sex should not be demonized, just understood. Some want it for family. This type of love is selfish. It's a ... "My man/women better not touch anyone else, he/she is only mine" ... which is okay, this is just one type of love. Others love many, others want to live a life only based on lust, others are kinky, others love the same sex ... I say, freaking great ... sex it up. There is nothing wrong about this pleasure, and i am sick of religion making it appear as there is. Why do you care so much about how others choose to share love? You are selfish, you are jealous, you are something i just don't understand ... which, i know (my prophecy) in time you will fade ... these out-dated morals will fade ...

I could have technically given consent to anyone at the age of 13 when i learned of it after puberty. Now, i may have regretted some people i gave consent to, but i would have relished the experience. Through my years, i have regretted some people i slept with anyways. This is bc my tastes in sexual attraction changed through the years ... but, i have never regretted the experience. We are sexual animals ... but, we are smart enough to make choices. My choices are mine ... and, i will sue religion for emotion distress from the fear it gave me to this pleasure ending in regret ... affecting my mental capacity in viewing a beautiful pleasure as just another negative among the million in this sad planet ... i think this is evil ... i think religion is evil ... and the sheep fail to see it.

I can imagine. If i grew up understanding what sex is. Educating myself about the emotions and what i want. Looking at it as a positive pleasure. Looking at it as a consent based connection with other human beings ... i would have loved life so much more. I hate religion for taking this away from me ... you will reap what you sow.

If your actions, sexual or not, get in the way of you seeing Truth and Love others, it is immoral from the Christian standpoint.

This is something that goes beyond just religion. This is something that goes beyond just sexuality. It has to do with anything.

Sexual immorality though, which is the subject of this topic, is something that isn't just harmful to the individual, but society as a whole. Don't point the finger at people who tell you it is wrong, telling them they are being selfish and that they aren't minding their own business. No, these are ways to avert the issue. Though you may not know it now, you are the one being selfish, and your actions help contribute to the corruption of society as a whole!

No, there was a time when people got married, and they didn't divorce. They worked things out. People didn't cheat on each other. They had a sense of honor. You sleep around, you hurt everyone! Don't you see how it effects you and everyone you encounter? It's not love, it's lust, and there is nothing beautiful about it! It's shameful!

If you were to take everything you are saying, but refer to heroin addiction, it would stand just as solid. Oh, it feels good. Why do you care what I do with my body? It's a a positive pleasure.

I tell you, getting trapped in creation is not where happiness comes from. Happiness doesn't come from man made religion either. The pleasures of this world are all temporary, fleeting. These things do not lead to happiness. They are like drugs. You take them, you enjoy them, and they wear off. Soon enough it takes more and more of the drug to even maintain your happiness. It becomes impossible after a point.

How belittling it is to your true self to identify with your lusts.

Yes, sexual education is abysmal. I tell you, the fact that people can't see past face value when it comes to this subject makes it apparent.

If your actions, sexual or not, get in the way of seeing Truth and Loving others, it is immoral from the Christian standpoint.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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7/10/2015 7:42:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 5:43:46 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

It's the difference between a contract marriage, which is more or less like an insurance policy, and a covenant marriage between you, your spouse, and God.

There are reasons for traditional gender roles though, and when men and women cooperate without envying the others place, good things happen. It's also an optimal environment to raise your kids.

I'm sad at the state of families in America right now. Almost everyone I know came from some type of divorced family. It's utterly shameful.

You have to wonder if these bigoted a-holes actual read their own contradictory idiocy.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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7/10/2015 7:47:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:15:59 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/10/2015 6:41:44 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*


If your actions, sexual or not, get in the way of you seeing Truth and Love others, it is immoral from the Christian standpoint.

This is your religions fault ... can you not see it. If sex was not demonized ... There would be more LOVE! More connection ...

This is something that goes beyond just religion. This is something that goes beyond just sexuality. It has to do with anything.

Oh, trust you me ... this will go beyond your religion ... once your generation fades.

Sexual immorality though, which is the subject of this topic, is something that isn't just harmful to the individual, but society as a whole. Don't point the finger at people who tell you it is wrong, telling them they are being selfish and that they aren't minding their own business. No, these are ways to avert the issue. Though you may not know it now, you are the one being selfish, and your actions help contribute to the corruption of society as a whole!

Let me define sexual immorality for you ... Non-consensual sex. Period. Why is it harmful? They are being selfish ... how are they not? Oh, bc they do it out of love ... to save me? I don't want your love ... you are the one invading on my consent. What corruption? Lol...now sex is corruption ... *facepalm* all of these negative titles, where are you coming up with it? And, why?

No, there was a time when people got married, and they didn't divorce. They worked things out. People didn't cheat on each other. They had a sense of honor. You sleep around, you hurt everyone! Don't you see how it effects you and everyone you encounter? It's not love, it's lust, and there is nothing beautiful about it! It's shameful!

Then ........ Find someone that shares the same values as you. If it is a happy little house with a white picket fence you want ... marry someone that wants the same. Don't marry someone lustful. And, if you see they are this way ...then talk about it. To me love is someone that can respect my lustful nature. If i hook up with lust ... i am not loving. If i am with a person that i love, they know this. I would rather be with the one i love ... and, i would rather have a one night stand with someone i lust ... This is how i live. If you do not like my personality... then, get over it. It has nothing to do with anyone but myself ... so yes, i am being selfish. So what? It is my sexual nature, not anyone else's business. I'll be selfish about it till the day i die.

If you were to take everything you are saying, but refer to heroin addiction, it would stand just as solid. Oh, it feels good. Why do you care what I do with my body? It's a a positive pleasure.

Good red herring. Seriously, good job. Do you want to learn about addiction. There are addicts, and there are normi's. Addicts can't control their behavior. They have mental problems. Normi's do not. They can smoke heroin once, and not do it again. The opposite being true for an addict. These types of personalities will exist until we advance and do something about it ... but, for now ... there are addicts. I am not an addict. I can control my actions ... and so can many people ... so don't lump them all together and call everyone an addict ... you are wrong and fallacious. And, quite frankly ... insulting many people.

I tell you, getting trapped in creation is not where happiness comes from. Happiness doesn't come from man made religion either. The pleasures of this world are all temporary, fleeting. These things do not lead to happiness. They are like drugs. You take them, you enjoy them, and they wear off. Soon enough it takes more and more of the drug to even maintain your happiness. It becomes impossible after a point.

I love how theist can paint such a dark world ... be careful; one thing may be true...if you happen to open your eyes again after death, which thoughts are you going to be? I am afraid for the religious bc they have many dark thoughts. Irony of what they want for paradise.

How belittling it is to your true self to identify with your lusts.

If this is how you feel, then please ... don't lust. I am in control of my actions. I know what i am doing. Again, stop painting a horror movie ... for if you were in my thoughts ... you would only see rainbows.

Yes, sexual education is abysmal. I tell you, the fact that people can't see past face value when it comes to this subject makes it apparent.

I am with you here. Yet, i am sure i would be against you on my philosophy to this issue. I think it should be taught young, i think when a human goes through puberty, they should know exactly what they are dealing with at that point. They should know the mental and physical parts of love making. They should be taught what it is to have sex. It is not only marriage ... period. It can be lust or love. It's funny, you cannot have love without lust.

If your actions, sexual or not, get in the way of seeing Truth and Loving others, it is immoral from the Christian standpoint.

I am sorry to offend your religion then. But, i will. I will be Lucifer on this issue. I will be an opponent to painting a world more beautiful than what you think your religion is doing. People will see the evil in your religion. It's just a matter of time.
UniversalTheologian
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7/10/2015 8:23:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:47:13 PM, Outplayz wrote:
This is your religions fault ... can you not see it. If sex was not demonized ... There would be more LOVE! More connection ...

No, not at all. Sex is NOT love. When people have sex, it leaves something in both of them. People hurt each other. People mislead each other. People lie to each other. This has nothing to do with sex being demonized! I'm not demonizing sex. Sex is a wonderful thing, when it is done RIGHT.

Let me define sexual immorality for you ... Non-consensual sex. Period. Why is it harmful? They are being selfish ... how are they not? Oh, bc they do it out of love ... to save me? I don't want your love ... you are the one invading on my consent. What corruption? Lol...now sex is corruption ... *facepalm* all of these negative titles, where are you coming up with it? And, why?

This is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that even consensual sex harms people. Consent is easy to get. People develop bonds with each other when they have sex. Sometimes people don't know what they were getting into.

Yeah, you know, everytime someone ever polished knob to get a promotion, yeah sure, there was consent there. Politics have been controlled by this stuff! Read a biography of J Edgar Hoover. He used this stuff to blackmail people into doing what he wanted! It corrupts EVERYTHING. Don't be so naive! This is real stuff!

Then ........ Find someone that shares the same values as you. If it is a happy little house with a white picket fence you want ... marry someone that wants the same. Don't marry someone lustful. And, if you see they are this way ...then talk about it. To me love is someone that can respect my lustful nature. If i hook up with lust ... i am not loving. If i am with a person that i love, they know this. I would rather be with the one i love ... and, i would rather have a one night stand with someone i lust ... This is how i live. If you do not like my personality... then, get over it. It has nothing to do with anyone but myself ... so yes, i am being selfish. So what? It is my sexual nature, not anyone else's business. I'll be selfish about it till the day i die.

Lets get one thing clear. I don't care what you do. I don't have anything to "get over". I'm not telling you what to do. I will however, tell you that what you are doing is self destructive, will not lead to satisfaction, and will only lead to suffering.

If you don't want to heed my warning, that is your business. Learn the hard way. Believe what YOU WANT to believe.

I love how theist can paint such a dark world ... be careful; one thing may be true...if you happen to open your eyes again after death, which thoughts are you going to be? I am afraid for the religious bc they have many dark thoughts. Irony of what they want for paradise.

Creation is to be enjoyed, certainly. If you haven't found heaven in this life, what makes you think it'll be any different in the next? I have paradise. I can't be bribed by the worthless things of this world. I live an ascetic life.

I was told yesterday, "Either you have a lot of faith, or you are some kind of masochist."

I tell you, I do not suffer for the way I live. I am very happy.

It's funny, you cannot have love without lust.

This is perverse thinking, and I'm telling you that it isn't true at all. The two are very different.

If your actions, sexual or not, get in the way of seeing Truth and Loving others, it is immoral from the Christian standpoint.

I am sorry to offend your religion then. But, i will. I will be Lucifer on this issue. I will be an opponent to painting a world more beautiful than what you think your religion is doing. People will see the evil in your religion. It's just a matter of time.

You don't even understand my religion, you are talking a bunch of nonsense. There is no deceit in me, I preach a pure faith. What do I care about what a bunch of deaf, blind, and dumb people think? These people kill each other over things they already agree on!

Even if you were to burn all the scripture in the world, my faith would still be there. It is The Eternal and True Faith. It doesn't need books to carry it! It doesn't need teachers to carry it! If you were to stamp out every memory of it, it would rise again. It is The Universal Faith.

Understand! It is not my intent to condemn, but to convict! I don't say these things to feed my ego, I am anonymous! I do not say these things to hurt you! I say these things out of love, and a love that has no trace of lust in it. It given freely without any expectation of reward! What have I to gain by speaking of these things? Surely, it is in my best interests to keep to myself!
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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7/11/2015 3:07:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is nothing WRONG with having sex, gay or straight providing you are in an adult relationship and not cheating on a partner. GET REAL.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/11/2015 6:04:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

Whilst I find our definition interesting I will always stand by Jehovah's, which is:

Any activity outside of a scripturally structured marriage between a man and a women whihc involves sexual intercouirse, or is likely to lead to sexual intercourse between two or more human beings, regardless of gender.

That also includes anything which can cause us to think of such forbidden activities, such as pronography or voyeurism. See Matthew 5:27-28 (ASV(i)), as an example of living by principle, not law, and of the high standard that entails.. "27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." After all if you don't even allow yourself to think about it, you will not do it.

If you want to know what that includes you can start with passionate kissing, since that can make you think of what you cannot have, and work on from there.

Like it or not, that is his standard, and it is for our protection.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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7/11/2015 6:11:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 6:04:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

Whilst I find our definition interesting I will always stand by Jehovah's, which is:

Any activity outside of a scripturally structured marriage between a man and a women whihc involves sexual intercouirse, or is likely to lead to sexual intercourse between two or more human beings, regardless of gender.

That also includes anything which can cause us to think of such forbidden activities, such as pronography or voyeurism. See Matthew 5:27-28 (ASV(i)), as an example of living by principle, not law, and of the high standard that entails.. "27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." After all if you don't even allow yourself to think about it, you will not do it.

If you want to know what that includes you can start with passionate kissing, since that can make you think of what you cannot have, and work on from there.

Like it or not, that is his standard, and it is for our protection.

And you have always practised what you preach, have you?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/11/2015 9:11:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 6:11:25 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 6:04:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

And you have always practised what you preach, have you?

I have always tried, since I have learned what is required of us. I wish I could say I had always succeeded, but as James said "we all stumble many times".

James 3:2
ASV(i) 2 For in many things we all stumble. If any stumbleth not in word, the same is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.

Still, if I keep practicing what I preach, one day I will be able to do what I preach all the time. After all, isn't there a saying "practice makes perfect", but not without getting it wrong at times it doesn't.

As I have grown stronger, it has been easier to do, but when you have lived all of your life by different standards it is impossible to get it all right all at once.

Fortunately jehovah understands and forgive our mistakes as long as we keep trying to get it right.

One day we will be able to do so, but that is a very long way off.

For now all we can do is constantly be aware of the splinters in our eyes and working on having them removed so that we can help others to get the planks out of their eyes like we once had.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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7/11/2015 9:13:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

I can find no coherent argument against homosexual love here. You seem to be arguing about baseless lust, and then assuming that all homosexuality is a form of baseless lust, and that homosexual love is impossible. This is a completely unwarranted conclusion.

I've already addressed this in another thread, but to me sexual immorality consists of three things: non-consensual sex, sex which involves a vast disparity in experience or maturity to the point that it becomes exploitation, and sex devoid of any genuine emotional attachment to the other person (empty lust).
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
drpiek
Posts: 589
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7/11/2015 6:47:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:45:18 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
At 7/10/2015 1:35:56 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 7/10/2015 11:43:53 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
*WARNING*

This is a controversial subject, and one that is very misunderstood. If you can not leave your passion at the door and discuss this subject with a level of detachment and maturity, for the sake of discussion, I would ask you to please not post.

Please don't judge and hate other people for their behaviors.

Please don't accuse others of being bigoted, homophobic, etc. These are thought ending words.

Fear is the mind killer.

Please, try to keep passion at a low, I'd like there to be actual communication.

*WARNING*


Because of the recent Supreme Court ruling in the United States legalizing same-sex unions in marriage, I feel that this would be a good time to explain in the most lucid and direct manner what it is exactly that constitutes sexual immorality. Before I do this, I'd like to make an observation about American culture to explain why I feel the need to single out "sexual immorality" as opposed to any other type of immorality.

The sad thing about American culture is that, although there was this big "sexual liberation" that allegedly took place, Americans on the whole are a very sexually repressed people. The taboo nature of the subject makes it nearly impossible for people to comfortably talk about it, or even be honest about it.

The fact of the matter is, all human beings, have things floating around in their heads. At one point or another, everyone fantasizes or gets the urge to do something that might not be considered socially acceptable. Because of the taboo nature of certain subjects, the reason for a particular behavior being harmful is lost. The reason becomes arbitrary.

So, someone decides that they want to engage in a taboo sexual activity. They are met with resistance and told that it is wrong. Because the subject is taboo, no good reason is given to the deviant, and it seems as though the desire they have is wrong for arbitrary reasons. People will point to The Bible and say. "look, it says here that it is wrong!", not realizing that this is not going to be a convincing rational to anyone who is sincere. It may be written in the Bible, but that alone isn't the reason for why something is wrong, right? It's written for a reason! To those who make an idol out of scripture, reason is not necessary, however, the reason is actually written in the book. Ironically enough, those who worship the scripture as God are not likely to find these reasons.

So, not finding a satisfying answer, the deviant develops a hang up. Unable to find a good reason for why the action of their desire is wrong, they further identify with it. Eventually, it becomes a fetish, and this is reinforced by others who say that they should take pride in it.

Historically speaking, a "fetish" was used to refer to an idol. An idol being a representation of a god, or something that exercises power over the individual. Something that gets in between an individual and The Highest God, which is Truth. Nowadays, a fetish is almost specifically referred to in the context of sexual deviancy. This is not an accident!

If one is honest, it should be apparent to anyone that our desires and attachments effect both the way we reason and the way we act. It effects our discernment, it alters our behavior, it controls us as the addiction that it is. When these things get in the way of seeing The Truth, it is harmful to us and those around us. When it gets in the way of doing what we know we ought to do, even worse.

Sexual immorality is something that covers a wide range of behaviors. After the "sexual liberation", promiscuity not only became acceptable, but even encouraged. The leap from strictly heterosexual immorality to homosexual immorality was not really a leap, but an inevitable step. When you are guided by the lusts of the flesh, ultimately, it is about what feels good. If people are honest about what feels good, they will soon realize that it really doesn't matter who you are physically intimate with, because from a physical standpoint, it all can feel good.

When people are guided by the lusts of their flesh, and don't take this to be limited to just sexuality, it effects their ability to not only see the truth, but to love each other.

If you base a relationship on physical attraction, that bond is so fragile that old age or an accident that causes some type of maiming is all it takes to take away "the magic".

If you base a relationship on emotion, it is destined to fail because emotions are fleeting! You might find someone to be charming at first, but eventually what you found charming will just be a nuisance.

Now certainly, you could even build a relationship on children. Lets assume that a same sex couple has children. Truly I tell you, men and women are different, and this is ok. I'm not talking about the cultural things that make us different either. A truly DIVERSE household is one where a man and a woman can get together and TOLERATE their differences to work as a cooperative unit where one's strengths and weaknesses work in tandem with the other's strengths and weaknesses. But that aside, how many marriages that involve children end in divorce? This is still a fragile thing to base a relationship on.

Maybe it's love. Who knows what love is these days! Ah, what is love? " Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."


But truly I tell you, there is no such thing as an "innate homosexual". Anyone who identifies themselves with their sexuality, habits, behaviors.. They are mislead. This is not the true nature of the self.

Sexual immorality is when you make an idol out of such things, and it gets in the way of The Truth and you genuinely loving people.

Understand that sexual behavior effects you and the world around you in ways that are not readily apparent. It is a dangerous thing.

One of biblical reasons for getting married has to do with keeping one from sexual immorality. This doesn't work if you even think that divorce is an option. I'd hope that people will one day remember why it is that sex outside of marriage is harmful. I'd hope that people one day realize that ultimately, being preoccupied with sex is not any more beneficial than becoming an alcoholic.

The only thing I would consider sexually immoral is non-consensual sex. Strange that the bible seems to be ok with it.

Where in the Scriptures does it ever say God is okay with non-consensual sex? Please tell me this is not where you are getting this fallacious information:

http://www.evilbible.com...

No, I was thinking of:

"Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof," (Gen. 19:8).

There are other passages where men are told to "take" women with no word of their consent. I believe in God, but the bible is not any more Gods word than any other book.