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An Open and Honest Question For Muslims

Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UniversalTheologian
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7/11/2015 9:11:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Qur'an says that if you are attacked, you have the right to defend yourself IF YOU CHOOSE, and this is the only justification.

The Qur'an says that in war, if the enemy offers peace, you take it.

The Qur'an says that there is no compulsion in religion.

The Qur'an says advocates a message of religious freedom and tolerance.

The prophet Mohammed, during his life, always bent over backwards for peace. In fact, for over a decade the first Muslim community faced persecution and violence. They eventually left town, and you know what happened? The people who oppressed them to the point of them leaving town FOLLOWED them, and were hell bent on eradicating them.

It was after this point that they were given the ok to DEFEND themselves.

People do terrible things in the name of religion. Power hungry mad men will always deceive the gullible and ignorant.

The things people do in the name of religion is not a good way to judge the message of it. People have done all sorts of atrocities in name of their prophets, but they are agents of Satan hell bent on keeping people from the faith.

If you understand what these scriptures are saying, you are not going to put your faith in men or man made institution.

The Qur'an is pure and beautiful, and those who have issues with it don't understand it, or have taken bits and pieces of it out of context rather than actually reading it straight the way through.

I recommend "The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an in Today's English" translation by "Yahiya Emerick". As far as translations go, it's very true to the original meaning, and it also is written in very lucid English. Unfortunately, a lot of Qur'an translations are clunky, so it's hard to find good ones, but Yahiya Emerick does a really fantastic job.

The Qur'an when recited in its original language is truly magical though, it is very musical, and widely considered to be the greatest work of poetry on the Earth.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:27:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Response: To begin, may I suggest that if you consider yourself an honest person who is open-minded, that you may perhaps present your contentions or arguments within the thread, rather than in a link. Being that the discussion takes place here and a link cannot reply, then what we are discussing should be stated here. I only say this because it is too easy to post a link of statements somewhere else, but ask a person to take the time to type a logical response in reply. I have to type my own thoughts whereas you do not have to and your argument is somewhere other than the place where the dialogue or debate is taking place. That can come across as someone afraid to defend their own position and only wants to cause trouble. So it may discourage a person from replying. Just a suggestion.

Addressing the site, you will easily notice that of all the statements referring to killing or fighting in the Qur'an and hadiths, not one says to attack first. Not one says to kill or attack someone who is peaceful. hence, it says to fight and kill, but does not say the reason why. That is when you look at the context.

So we read verse 8:61 that says it is forbidden to fight those who incline to peace. We read verse 2:256 that says there is no compulsion in religion. We also read verse 9:13 which says the non-Muslims attacked first. So since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful or use force, then the context clearly shows that the verses relating to fighting and killing are in self-defense. Thus Islam is just and a peaceful religion because it prescribes violence in a just manner which is to restore peace through self-defense.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:27:31 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Response: To begin, may I suggest that if you consider yourself an honest person who is open-minded, that you may perhaps present your contentions or arguments within the thread, rather than in a link. Being that the discussion takes place here and a link cannot reply, then what we are discussing should be stated here. I only say this because it is too easy to post a link of statements somewhere else, but ask a person to take the time to type a logical response in reply. I have to type my own thoughts whereas you do not have to and your argument is somewhere other than the place where the dialogue or debate is taking place. That can come across as someone afraid to defend their own position and only wants to cause trouble. So it may discourage a person from replying. Just a suggestion.

Addressing the site, you will easily notice that of all the statements referring to killing or fighting in the Qur'an and hadiths, not one says to attack first. Not one says to kill or attack someone who is peaceful. hence, it says to fight and kill, but does not say the reason why. That is when you look at the context.

So we read verse 8:61 that says it is forbidden to fight those who incline to peace. We read verse 2:256 that says there is no compulsion in religion. We also read verse 9:13 which says the non-Muslims attacked first. So since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful or use force, then the context clearly shows that the verses relating to fighting and killing are in self-defense. Thus Islam is just and a peaceful religion because it prescribes violence in a just manner which is to restore peace through self-defense.

But the reason I detest much of Islam's deeds is in fact contained in that link. Those actually comprise part of my argument.

Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:36:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:27:31 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Response: To begin, may I suggest that if you consider yourself an honest person who is open-minded, that you may perhaps present your contentions or arguments within the thread, rather than in a link. Being that the discussion takes place here and a link cannot reply, then what we are discussing should be stated here. I only say this because it is too easy to post a link of statements somewhere else, but ask a person to take the time to type a logical response in reply. I have to type my own thoughts whereas you do not have to and your argument is somewhere other than the place where the dialogue or debate is taking place. That can come across as someone afraid to defend their own position and only wants to cause trouble. So it may discourage a person from replying. Just a suggestion.

Addressing the site, you will easily notice that of all the statements referring to killing or fighting in the Qur'an and hadiths, not one says to attack first. Not one says to kill or attack someone who is peaceful. hence, it says to fight and kill, but does not say the reason why. That is when you look at the context.

So we read verse 8:61 that says it is forbidden to fight those who incline to peace. We read verse 2:256 that says there is no compulsion in religion. We also read verse 9:13 which says the non-Muslims attacked first. So since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful or use force, then the context clearly shows that the verses relating to fighting and killing are in self-defense. Thus Islam is just and a peaceful religion because it prescribes violence in a just manner which is to restore peace through self-defense.



But the reason I detest much of Islam's deeds is in fact contained in that link. Those actually comprise part of my argument.


Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.

Some examples of how you people will advocate murder and violence to non-believers, and NOT only when you are attacked first...http://freethoughtnation.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:37:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

But the reason I detest much of Islam's deeds is in fact contained in that link. Those actually comprise part of my argument.


Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.

Response: Saying to kill an infidel, except those who do not fight you and not those who are peaceful clearly refers to self-defense. Thus Islam is a just and peaceful religion.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UniversalTheologian
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7/11/2015 10:41:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

This is patently false.

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

Sharia law, I'd just like to point out, is based on extra Qur'anic material.

That said, mercy is supposed to be given to those who repent and turn away.

The thieves who get their hands chopped off are the ones who are unrepentant habitual offenders.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.

I guarantee they didn't have the amount of witnesses to the adultery that the Qur'an requires in order to perform such an execution.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:43:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:37:20 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

But the reason I detest much of Islam's deeds is in fact contained in that link. Those actually comprise part of my argument.


Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.

Response: Saying to kill an infidel, except those who do not fight you and not those who are peaceful clearly refers to self-defense. Thus Islam is a just and peaceful religion.

Either you do not know your Koran, sir, or you are a liar.

Here are some excerpts from your Koran which advocate killing infidels--non-believers--simply for not agreeing or believing. Even if they do not attack you first, but merely hold different theology.

http://freethoughtnation.com...
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Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:43:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...

Response: The Qur'an says not to fight those who are peaceful (8:61). Thus refuting your claim that it says to fight and kill just for not believing. So you have only helped to show Islam is a beautiful and just religion. Thanks.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:45:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:43:10 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...

Response: The Qur'an says not to fight those who are peaceful (8:61). Thus refuting your claim that it says to fight and kill just for not believing. So you have only helped to show Islam is a beautiful and just religion. Thanks.

Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout..." (Quran 9:5).
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UniversalTheologian
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7/11/2015 10:45:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...

Every single one of those quotes is taken out of context. Why don't you read a surrah straight the way through instead of getting your information from an obviously bias source with an agenda.

Better yet, read the whole Qur'an start to finish with a sincere desire to understand what it is saying rather than with the intent to tear it apart.

If you understand what it is saying, there is very little in it that you will find controversial.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:45:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout..." (Quran 9:5).
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:46:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:43:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Either you do not know your Koran, sir, or you are a liar.

Here are some excerpts from your Koran which advocate killing infidels--non-believers--simply for not agreeing or believing. Even if they do not attack you first, but merely hold different theology.

http://freethoughtnation.com...

Response: Yet your failed responses continue to show otherwise, since we can clearly see that you cannot quote any verse saying to attack first or fight and innocent person, while verses 8:61 clearly says not to fight those who are peaceful, thus proving the Qur'an promotes self-defense. Your arguments remain invalid as usual.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:47:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. } (Surat At-Tawbah 9:29)
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Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:50:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:45:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout..." (Quran 9:5).

Response: :Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you?"

Self-defense. Thanks for proving my point.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:50:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:37:20 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:33:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

But the reason I detest much of Islam's deeds is in fact contained in that link. Those actually comprise part of my argument.


Look, you and I both know full well that The Koran is filled with Surahs that advocate--if not demand that infidels be killed. Or that Allah will dispose of them. This is not, obviously, as case of defending yourself. Like when you said the "non-Muslims attacked first."

It is instead simply another case of a religion advocating violence and murder to all that do not agree with it. or believe in it. Sharia Law takes this a step further. In my country if a group of people went around doing the things those people do they wojlc be imprisoned for life. This is not religion in my view, but rather wanton terrorism and oppression.

My friend is over in Afghanistan now and says last week he saw some Taliban stone a woman at the halftime of a soccer game--to death, for being accused of adultery.

Nice.

Response: Saying to kill an infidel, except those who do not fight you and not those who are peaceful clearly refers to self-defense. Thus Islam is a just and peaceful religion.

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UniversalTheologian
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7/11/2015 10:50:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a lot like taking a critic's word on their judgement of a movie or album instead of watching the movie or listening to the album and making your own decision.

It's utterly mindless.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:51:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:47:46 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. } (Surat At-Tawbah 9:29)


Response: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).

Proving self-defense again. Thanks.
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:53:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:50:41 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Response: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Proving self-defense since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful. Thanks again for helping to show Islam is a just and peaceful religion.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 10:54:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:45:50 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...

Every single one of those quotes is taken out of context. Why don't you read a surrah straight the way through instead of getting your information from an obviously bias source with an agenda.

Better yet, read the whole Qur'an start to finish with a sincere desire to understand what it is saying rather than with the intent to tear it apart.

If you understand what it is saying, there is very little in it that you will find controversial.

I have read the Koran three times form start to finish, amigo.

Which only fortified my belief that it as a religion built o violence and death to all those who oppose it.

Out of context? LOL. You sound like a politician who just got caught lying. How can they be of context if they are direct verbatim quotes from the Koran?

Would you like me to keep posting some of its murderous exhortations?

I can do this all night long, baby. it's easy..since there are so many.

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 10:55:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:54:41 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:45:50 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:38:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Islam does not only commit violence when they are attacked first, folks. The Koran condones violence and even death to people who simply do not believe as they do.

Here are some examples, taken from their holy book............http://freethoughtnation.com...

Every single one of those quotes is taken out of context. Why don't you read a surrah straight the way through instead of getting your information from an obviously bias source with an agenda.

Better yet, read the whole Qur'an start to finish with a sincere desire to understand what it is saying rather than with the intent to tear it apart.

If you understand what it is saying, there is very little in it that you will find controversial.


I have read the Koran three times form start to finish, amigo.

Which only fortified my belief that it as a religion built o violence and death to all those who oppose it.

Out of context? LOL. You sound like a politician who just got caught lying. How can they be of context if they are direct verbatim quotes from the Koran?

Would you like me to keep posting some of its murderous exhortations?

I can do this all night long, baby. it's easy..since there are so many.


Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Response: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Proving self-defense since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful. Thanks again for helping to show Islam is a just and peaceful religion.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 11:04:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:50:54 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
It's a lot like taking a critic's word on their judgement of a movie or album instead of watching the movie or listening to the album and making your own decision.

It's utterly mindless.

Mindless is denying cold hard facts, dimwit.

Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur"an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 11:06:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 9:11:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
The Qur'an says that if you are attacked, you have the right to defend yourself IF YOU CHOOSE, and this is the only justification.

The Qur'an says that in war, if the enemy offers peace, you take it.

The Qur'an says that there is no compulsion in religion.

The Qur'an says advocates a message of religious freedom and tolerance.


The prophet Mohammed, during his life, always bent over backwards for peace. In fact, for over a decade the first Muslim community faced persecution and violence. They eventually left town, and you know what happened? The people who oppressed them to the point of them leaving town FOLLOWED them, and were hell bent on eradicating them.

It was after this point that they were given the ok to DEFEND themselves.

People do terrible things in the name of religion. Power hungry mad men will always deceive the gullible and ignorant.

The things people do in the name of religion is not a good way to judge the message of it. People have done all sorts of atrocities in name of their prophets, but they are agents of Satan hell bent on keeping people from the faith.

If you understand what these scriptures are saying, you are not going to put your faith in men or man made institution.

The Qur'an is pure and beautiful, and those who have issues with it don't understand it, or have taken bits and pieces of it out of context rather than actually reading it straight the way through.

I recommend "The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an in Today's English" translation by "Yahiya Emerick". As far as translations go, it's very true to the original meaning, and it also is written in very lucid English. Unfortunately, a lot of Qur'an translations are clunky, so it's hard to find good ones, but Yahiya Emerick does a really fantastic job.

The Qur'an when recited in its original language is truly magical though, it is very musical, and widely considered to be the greatest work of poetry on the Earth.

Pure and beautiful, eh?

Were you born with a reading problem? Or did you develop it through hard work?

LOL

Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur"an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/11/2015 11:07:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 10:53:15 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 10:50:41 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Response: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Proving self-defense since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful. Thanks again for helping to show Islam is a just and peaceful religion.

Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Fatihah
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7/11/2015 11:09:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 11:07:19 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:


Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)

Response: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Proving self-defense since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful. Thanks again for helping to show Islam is a just and peaceful religion.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/11/2015 11:18:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you were really so interested in learning about Islam, you'd go directly to the source.

You speak of things you know nothing about. These scriptures in context do not mean the same thing when taken out of context.

You are not going to convince any Muslim with what you are saying, the only thing you are going to do is encourage people to condemn rather than understand.

In no other time in history is it important that these things are properly understood.

You are doing humanity a great disservice by perpetuating this nonsense that only serves to dehumanize those who follow Islam.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/11/2015 11:21:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 11:09:55 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/11/2015 11:07:19 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:


Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)

Response: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Proving self-defense since Muslims cannot fight those who are peaceful. Thanks again for helping to show Islam is a just and peaceful religion.

Fatihah fails to notice Muhammad's hypocrisy that is revealed by his use of "enemies" for one's inclined towards peace. And what "peace" is that but caving in to Muhammad's war demands for total surrender to him and his religion, i.e. "peace" is to be established only when everyone agrees to Muhammmad's rulership. That is not peace but coercion using violent threat to obtain one's will, in this case, Muhammad's will to rule absolutetly without critics, i;e to be a dictator.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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7/11/2015 11:25:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

That "horrible" Islam brought unprecedented stability, unity, and high achievement of culture and learning during the Medieval and early modern era.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/11/2015 11:29:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 11:25:10 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:43:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
You defenders and apologists of Islam say that, contrary to popular belief by many non-Muslims, your religion, despite its long and irrefutable history of bloodshed, is, at its heart, a peaceful religion.

Being a man of an open mind and one who is always willing to listen to the views of others, I then would humbly ask you to take ten minutes of your valuable time and simply read this following link.

Then please be so kind as to tell me how you can justify this. And still tell all of us "infidels" that yours is indeed a religion of peace and harmony.

Thank you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

That "horrible" Islam brought unprecedented stability, unity, and high achievement of culture and learning during the Medieval and early modern era.

Oh, ya ,mean like 9/11? And Sharia law? And my aforementioned stoning to death of a woman at a soccer game? And the Crusades? And the Taliban? Al Qaeda?

And all this shite?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.