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Was Mohammad a Pedophile?

Pase66
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7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.
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Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/13/2015 9:03:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I know very little about Islam, but anyone who argues that a man who impregnates a 9 year old is not a pedophile needs to have their head examined.
celestialtorahteacher
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7/13/2015 9:06:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As pedophilia is defined as "interest" in sex with young children and not necessarily interest acted upon, I think Muhammad falls more into the child molester classification as it defines child abuse which Muhammad certainly committed by forcing a child to have sex with an old man. The force may well have been social pressure but still Muhammad violated a child's innocence, forced a child to become an adult while still only being a child, thus robbing her of her own natural destiny. That this was common fare in Muslim communities does nothing to erase the fact of child abuse, the robbing of a child of childhood, the forcing of adult sexual relationships on a child's body, a child's mind. This is reprehensible behavior and it alone will stop Muhammad from ever being accepted as a "man of God" in the West that disallows child abuse.
celestialtorahteacher
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7/13/2015 9:13:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What's really sickening about child marriages is that old men look for young girls not as young girls but as the women they will become, they look for beauty as if girls were objects to possess to show off as property. It is child abuse all around for any society to condone the forced marriages of children to essentially dirty old men. The practice was done away with in Western civilized countries protecting human rights but is still being promoted in Islamic communities where human rights are not respected, only the edicts of the ghost religious dictator all Muslims are forced to follow or be killed, Islam being very much like joining the Mafia where you can't ever leave or else be killed.
Saint_of_Me
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7/13/2015 9:31:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

I do not see how one cold not classify as a morally-depraved pedophile such a man who would do that.

Gee Whiz!! Just another reason to love that Islam!

LOL

Wow. Just, wow. The hits just keep on a'-rollin' when it comes to the Evils of Islam, eh?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
celestialtorahteacher
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7/13/2015 9:45:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 9:31:30 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

I do not see how one cold not classify as a morally-depraved pedophile such a man who would do that.

Gee Whiz!! Just another reason to love that Islam!

LOL

Wow. Just, wow. The hits just keep on a'-rollin' when it comes to the Evils of Islam, eh?

Islam or rather Muhammadanism threatens the world now as another rising of totalitarian fascism so it must be stopped before continuing to spawn killer apes killing people for no other reason than religiously inspired hatred against non-Muslisms being taught in the Quran, Muhammad's book. We didn't tolerate Nazism or Communism and Muhammadanism isn't any better, actually far worse as it used God for ultimate authority thus maligning God for believers in Goodness coming from God.
Saint_of_Me
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7/13/2015 9:50:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 9:45:44 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 7/13/2015 9:31:30 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

I do not see how one cold not classify as a morally-depraved pedophile such a man who would do that.

Gee Whiz!! Just another reason to love that Islam!

LOL

Wow. Just, wow. The hits just keep on a'-rollin' when it comes to the Evils of Islam, eh?

Islam or rather Muhammadanism threatens the world now as another rising of totalitarian fascism so it must be stopped before continuing to spawn killer apes killing people for no other reason than religiously inspired hatred against non-Muslisms being taught in the Quran, Muhammad's book. We didn't tolerate Nazism or Communism and Muhammadanism isn't any better, actually far worse as it used God for ultimate authority thus maligning God for believers in Goodness coming from God.

Great quote!!!

Could you do me a favor and put it over on my "Honest Question for Muslims" thread?

LOL---thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,608
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7/13/2015 10:00:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

Some of the Arab world still practices marrying and having sex with children. To the modern world he was a pedophile. In his world he maybe was not considered this. He is a very controversial subject. He was a violent murderer and quite possibly a prophet at the same time. I could not have imagined though, Jesus or Buddha marrying and having sex with a child or murdering anyone. Case closed.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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7/13/2015 11:43:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 10:00:07 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

Some of the Arab world still practices marrying and having sex with children. To the modern world he was a pedophile. In his world he maybe was not considered this. He is a very controversial subject. He was a violent murderer and quite possibly a prophet at the same time. I could not have imagined though, Jesus or Buddha marrying and having sex with a child or murdering anyone. Case closed.

So are you saying that we can't judge him using standards from our time and society, since the context of the society we live in and that of which Mohammad lived in are entirely different?
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Fatihah
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7/14/2015 1:46:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

Response: Muhammad ( saw) wrote the marriage contract for Aisha (ra) when she was 6 years old and entered into the marriage contract by living together when she was 9.

Marriage in Islam is to love and protect each other. Sexual relations are only allowed only in marriage through consent with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Thus the Prophet wrote the contract when she was 6 after it was revealed to him by Allah to take her as a wife, then brought her to live with him through her and her parents consent when she was 9 because she showed maturity, then began sexual relations with her by her consent once puberty was reached.

Through her life, Aisha says she was loved and treated kindly by the Prophet, and was the best of men. Aisha herself became a scholar and an authority in Islam , in which she is the second highest authority in narrating the most authentic hadiths. That means there would be no Islam nor would you or any person know about Islam if it was not for her.

That being said, if the above means to someone that she was a pedophile, then that makes pedophilia a great thing, since she was treated kindly by the Prophet, considered him the best of men, and she grew to be a great leader and scholar.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/14/2015 2:15:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 9:03:19 PM, Double_R wrote:
I know very little about Islam, but anyone who argues that a man who impregnates a 9 year old is not a pedophile needs to have their head examined.

Did you know that a large proportion of sexual assaults/rapes of pre-pubescent people were not actually committed by pedophiles (people who are sexually attracted to lee-pubescent children), and were actually crimes of opportunity by non-pedophiles (often by people in positions of trust, such as close family members, etc.)

http://www.aic.gov.au...

I would find you a better source but I am on my mobile at the moment.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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7/14/2015 7:23:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 11:43:32 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 7/13/2015 10:00:07 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

Some of the Arab world still practices marrying and having sex with children. To the modern world he was a pedophile. In his world he maybe was not considered this. He is a very controversial subject. He was a violent murderer and quite possibly a prophet at the same time. I could not have imagined though, Jesus or Buddha marrying and having sex with a child or murdering anyone. Case closed.

So are you saying that we can't judge him using standards from our time and society, since the context of the society we live in and that of which Mohammad lived in are entirely different?

This is exactly how we should be looking at it, as this is pretty much the first rule of any historical analysis. Take, for example, Athenian pederasty. Here we have a city which formalized such relationships, yet also serves as the bedrock of Western culture and philosophy. The proper way is to look at pederasty in the context of the society in which it was practiced, not to start hysterically beating Solon with a copy of the DSM V. Anyone who becomes transfixed with this sort of thing is either exceedingly amateurish when it comes to studying history, or is being disingenuous.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
neoryan1
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7/14/2015 9:33:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Based on today's standards, yes. But you must remember this was 1500 years ago when you were considered a nutcase for thinking the earth wasn't the center of the universe. Which seeing how the moon, sun, and the stars all seemed to move around the earth, was not actually a stupid thought at the time due to the lack of knowledge.

So basically from my perspective, it was a social norm of the time, so Muhammad wasn't too freakish for his time, but I would have to say based on my morals that he was a pedophile and what he did was wrong.
slo1
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7/14/2015 9:58:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you Muslim or not.

Just to give perspective the current general consensus is that Mary was between 12 & 14 when betrothal to Joseph and impregnated by God. Joseph was around 30 years old.

puberty on girls can hit as early as 7 or 8 years old.

So in short the standards were different back then. Secondly the common theme is that when God comes knocking and telling you to do shite you do shite.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/14/2015 10:29:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
An anglophile is someone who loves England. I don't see many anglophiles getting hot and bothered by the union jack, or porking the ground over there.

A pedophile is someone who loves children. I get annoyed when it is used to imply something sexual, I think it is maladjusted. Don't parents love their children?

I think they should do a big pedophile march on Washington, filled with parents, priests, scout leaders, teachers, and anyone who loves children.

A great majority of the people you find who are maladjusted sexually were abused as children. Child abuse is not pedophilia.

That is all I care to contribute to this topic.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UndeniableReality
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7/14/2015 10:39:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 10:29:33 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
An anglophile is someone who loves England. I don't see many anglophiles getting hot and bothered by the union jack, or porking the ground over there.

A pedophile is someone who loves children. I get annoyed when it is used to imply something sexual, I think it is maladjusted. Don't parents love their children?

I think they should do a big pedophile march on Washington, filled with parents, priests, scout leaders, teachers, and anyone who loves children.

A great majority of the people you find who are maladjusted sexually were abused as children. Child abuse is not pedophilia.

That is all I care to contribute to this topic.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Going by pure etymology, I guess you could argue that a paedophile is someone who merely loves children, which could include in healthy ways as well, even though that is not technically the definition of the word.

But I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is. Are you suggesting we come up with a different word for what we currently call "paedophile"? I take it you're still against adults taking sexual advantage of children, correct? Is this just a disagreement over semantics, then?
saif_hazem1942
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7/14/2015 10:44:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is a subject that itself is under debate by the Muslim scholars , some claim that she was 6 yrs old while most of them disapprove and say that she was actually 18 years old .
I do not know much of the subject but this is a subject that is even debated among Muslims them self's on the actual age of the prophets wife when they got married

Most of the scholars in my country and the ones that my whole country follows (al azhar) says that she was 16-18 years at that time . And you have to put in mind that during that era 16 yrs was a valid age for marriage among alot of countries including Europeans
And you have to know that the only people who claim that she was 6 that I know of are terrorists , yes we have those over here too...
Saif Hazem
UniversalTheologian
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7/14/2015 10:46:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 10:39:07 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Going by pure etymology, I guess you could argue that a paedophile is someone who merely loves children, which could include in healthy ways as well, even though that is not technically the definition of the word.

But I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is. Are you suggesting we come up with a different word for what we currently call "paedophile"? I take it you're still against adults taking sexual advantage of children, correct? Is this just a disagreement over semantics, then?

No, I admit that I'm not really trying to contribute anything of weight to this topic, I'm just expressing an annoyance I have with how contemporary culture has taken a word that used to mean something beautiful and turned it into something perverse.

I am of course against the sexual abuse of children. I don't get the impression that Aisha was abused, quite the contrary, out of all of Mohammad's wives, the records seem to imply that they were the closest to each other. Mohammad was said to have died in her arms.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UndeniableReality
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7/14/2015 11:02:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 10:46:29 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/14/2015 10:39:07 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
Going by pure etymology, I guess you could argue that a paedophile is someone who merely loves children, which could include in healthy ways as well, even though that is not technically the definition of the word.

But I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is. Are you suggesting we come up with a different word for what we currently call "paedophile"? I take it you're still against adults taking sexual advantage of children, correct? Is this just a disagreement over semantics, then?

No, I admit that I'm not really trying to contribute anything of weight to this topic, I'm just expressing an annoyance I have with how contemporary culture has taken a word that used to mean something beautiful and turned it into something perverse.

At first glance, the term appears to have been coined about 120 years ago specifically to mean the sexual violation of children: https://en.wikipedia.org...

So it seems that perhaps this term in specific never once meant something other than this, so no harm done and nothing to be annoyed at? Unless you have some data that suggests otherwise. If you assumed based on etymology, that would be an understandable mistake.

I am of course against the sexual abuse of children. I don't get the impression that Aisha was abused, quite the contrary, out of all of Mohammad's wives, the records seem to imply that they were the closest to each other. Mohammad was said to have died in her arms.

I myself would prefer not to judge either way on the basis of stories. Certainly today such a marriage would be illegal and considered perverse and immoral. Today that would be considered paedophilia, regardless of how she was treated, for the simple fact that a child of that age is not sufficiently neurological, psychologically, or physically mature to make informed decisions about marriage and sexual intercourse. But again, that's today's moral standards.
UniversalTheologian
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7/14/2015 11:11:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 11:02:49 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
So it seems that perhaps this term in specific never once meant something other than this, so no harm done and nothing to be annoyed at? Unless you have some data that suggests otherwise. If you assumed based on etymology, that would be an understandable mistake.

Yeah, that's where I'm getting my understanding from. I misspoke when I said, "used to mean".

I can't name or recollect any time the word was ever used in a different way.

I'm a theologian. I do a lot of language work. The use of the word "pedophile" is just something I like to make fun of when I'm doing stand up. It's a great way to make the people who don't laugh feel uncomfortable, which I think is integral to good comedy.

I'll be quiet now.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
kp98
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7/14/2015 11:22:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I take the view that scriptures are not straight reportage but are written to further the particuiar interests of some group. While tradition has it that the Koran came directly from Mohammed the historical reality is that it was compiled a good deal later and politics undoubtedly played its part in its writing. The young age of Ayesha would be significant in this context because by portrayed being very young her 'state of innocence' is emphasised, similar in the way that Mary's (alleged) virginity portrays her with exaggerated innocence.

Arabia 1500 years ago is not 21st US or europe. Exaggerating the youth of Ayesha would not damage the image of Mohammed, but would enhance that of Ayesha. But why would the Hadith writers lie about her age? The position and status of Ayesha was - and is - critical in Islam - for example she is revered in Sunni, reviled by the Shia. Her status was a critical factor in the succession crisis after Mohammed's death. There were political factors involved. The record cannot be trusted to be free of bias.

If there is any basis in truth to the story then I think Aisha was married very young to Mohammed for essentially political reasons. How young is impossible to say, nor is the nature of their 'physical relationship'. It is all but certain that Aisha was married young, possibly even young for the time. But Mohammed as pedophile - a term now generally understood as a predatory and serial stalker of young girls for purely sexual purposes - isn't really tenable.
UndeniableReality
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7/14/2015 11:32:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 11:11:15 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/14/2015 11:02:49 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
So it seems that perhaps this term in specific never once meant something other than this, so no harm done and nothing to be annoyed at? Unless you have some data that suggests otherwise. If you assumed based on etymology, that would be an understandable mistake.

Yeah, that's where I'm getting my understanding from. I misspoke when I said, "used to mean".

I can't name or recollect any time the word was ever used in a different way.

I'm a theologian. I do a lot of language work. The use of the word "pedophile" is just something I like to make fun of when I'm doing stand up. It's a great way to make the people who don't laugh feel uncomfortable, which I think is integral to good comedy.

I'll be quiet now.

Okay. Well this sounds different than what you were saying before, but that's okay.

No worries. You made an assumption which turned out to be incorrect. The important thing is that you are able to learn from it.
bulproof
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7/14/2015 11:38:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you f#ck a nine yr old you are a paedophile.
That's a fact.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fatihah
Posts: 7,731
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7/14/2015 11:40:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I was going to wait until the author of the OP replies before I present more, but since I am too familiar with the topic and the accusation against Prophet Muhammad, I know he will not say anything new, That being said, the following is a refutation to the common accusations against the Prophet:

The NON-Muslim Argument.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha : that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.
The hadith says "consummate" clearly indicating sex.

Muslim response:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

(Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311).

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. Sahih Muslim Book 8, Number 3310

The hadiths show with context, that Muhammad married Aisha at 6 (wrote the contract), and he entered into the contract when she was 9 by living together. Not that she had sex at 9. So consummation is referring to living together. Not sex.

Non-Muslim Response:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha : that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.

An Ayeshath Radhiyallahu Anha : AnnaNnabiyya Sallallahu Alaihi Vasallama Thazawwajaha vahiya binthu sitha sineen, va udkhilath alaihi vahiya binthu this"in.

{In this hadith, the word "udkhilath" was translated by Dr Mohsin Khan to mean "consummated his marriage".}

The root of the verb "udkhilath" is "dakhala" which means to "enter". This is the common Arabic meaning though there are other definitions, none of which can be made to fit with the context of the hadith above.

An English definition commonly found on the internet is this from the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273 : "to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman".

The phrase dakhala is translated as "consummated the marriage" in the hadith. The specific transliteration here is udkhilath alaihi, showing that the object of the sentence isn't marriage (a specific word not used in this part of the sentence), but rather Aisha. He entered Aisha, not "entered the marriage" in the arabic.
This proves from the Arabic that consummate means sex.

Muslim Response:
Dakhala does mean to enter, yet what is being entered is dependent upon the context and the context clearly demonstrates that it refers entering into the contract by living together. Not sex. Furthermore, the definition you provided says it also means cohabit. This is what you provided:

..from the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273 : "to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman". Also the following link below shows the definition is to also cohabit.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu...

Furthermore, the hadith itself shows that it refers to entering into the contract and not her in Arabic. Let"s analyze:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha : that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.

An Ayeshath Radhiyallahu Anha : AnnaNnabiyya Sallallahu Alaihi Vasallama Thazawwajaha vahiya binthu sitha sineen, va udkhilath alaihi vahiya binthu this"in.

Notice the following in the translation and transliteration, side by side.

3.Married her when she was 6 Thazawwajaha vahiya binthu sitha sineen,
4.Entered her when she was 9 udkhilath alaihi vahiya binthu this"in

The sentences are identical. The only difference from the second sentence than the first is the words "entered" and "9". So to translate it to mean entered her when she was 9, all that is necessary is to remove "married" and "6", and replace it with "entered" and "9". Yet clearly, we see another word is introduced. That word is "alaihi."

Clearly showing that the sentence does not mean enter her because another word is introduced. If it was to mean he entered her, it would not be necessary to add an additional word. Proving from the Arabic that it means he entered into what"s upon him. Not entered her. So since it is a marriage contract that is upon him, then it means he entered into the marriage contract. Not her.

Another interesting point is when we look at the very next hadith, with the same translation.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.

We can clearly see that the same translation is used. Yet the Arabic words for consummate is NOT udkhilat. It is "wabanaa", which means "built or constructed". So we see that consummated his marriage in this hadith is translated from the Arabic "built with her". Referring to the building of the marriage between the Prophet and Aisha.

The fact of the matter is that the expression "consummates the marriage" is stated many times in all the six collections of Sunni hadiths, and the Arabic word "dakhala" is not used each time. Other Arabic expressions are used as well.

So the argument that consummate means sex because it is translated from an Arabic word that means "to enter" in one hadith is invalid, since the very next hadith uses the same translation from a different Arabic word "wabanaa", referring to something that is built. Furthermore, there are other hadiths that use a different expression Arabic expression for the same translation.. And when we analyze the many narrations that refer to living together, then it shows from the context that the hadith refers to entering the marriage contract or the marriage being built upon by living together when she was 9. Not sex.
bulproof
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7/14/2015 11:42:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you f#ck a nine yr old you are a paedophile.
That's a fact. fati
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fatihah
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7/14/2015 11:42:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Non-Muslim Response:
If consummation does not means sex, then how do you explain the following hadith that translates it not as living together, but clearly states sexual intercourse:
1.SUNAN ABU DAWUD
Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)
http://sunnah.com...

This is not only a Muslim website but the site itself says the hadith is Sahih. That it is authentic.

MUSLIM RESPONSE:

The collection of Abu Dawud also has the same narrations, also saying that they cohabit, not sex.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter

So we can see that of all the authentic narrations, the majority refer to living together or consummate, AND ONLY ONE translates it as sex. This demonstrates once again that the context supports that it refers to living together and not sex. Secondly, although the Abu Dawud is authentic, it is still a weaker narration to that of Bukhari and Muslim, and neither of these sources say sex. So since the stronger sources do not refer to sex but cohabitation, then it logically shows that it refers to cohabitation and not sex.

Finally, the reason for the translation of "sexual intercourse" is because the Arabic in this particular hadith means "entered me", whereas the other narrations mean "enter into what"s upon him", or some other variation. So the translator saw fit that it should be translated as sex according to the text, and did not refer to the context. Yet as the context shows and the hadiths from the same source show, it does not refer to sex but to cohabitation. However, even the English expression of "entered me" does not mean that someone is literally entering inside a person. Notice the following sentence:

"I wanted to enter my brother"s race competition but I was not there to sign up, so my brother entered me instead."

As one can see, the words "enter me" can take on another meaning other than literally going inside someone, depending on context. Despite the words "entered me" the context shows that it refers to entering someone into a race. Similarly, the expression "entered me" in the Abu Dawud hadith that is translated as sexual intercourse should be translated as the Prophet entered her into the marriage contract.

We also know that Muhammad married Aisha, not of his own desires, but in accordance to a dream he received. So he was not following sexual desire, but following the Guidance of Allah:
Narrated `Aisha:
Allah's Messenger (A018;) said (to me), "You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, 'If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true.' " (Bukhari Vol. 7 Book 62 Num. 15).

In conclusion, we can see from the context, the Arabic itself, and even in English itself, that the consummation of marriage at 9 does not mean to have sex at 9. It means that they entered into the marriage contract at 9 by living together and Muhammad did so not out of his own sexual desires, but in accordance to the Guidance of Allah. Thus refuting the charge of Pedophilia.

And Allah knows Best.
Pase66
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7/14/2015 1:09:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 1:46:50 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 7/13/2015 8:54:04 PM, Pase66 wrote:
I would like to start a hopefully interesting discussion about whether the Islamic Prophet Mohammad was a pedophile, due to marrying a 6 year old and then consummating with her at age 9. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am just hoping for some interesting conversation. I have my own opinions, but I would like to hear all of yours, be you muslim or not.

Response: Muhammad ( saw) wrote the marriage contract for Aisha (ra) when she was 6 years old and entered into the marriage contract by living together when she was 9.

Marriage in Islam is to love and protect each other. Sexual relations are only allowed only in marriage through consent with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Thus the Prophet wrote the contract when she was 6 after it was revealed to him by Allah to take her as a wife, then brought her to live with him through her and her parents consent when she was 9 because she showed maturity, then began sexual relations with her by her consent once puberty was reached.

Through her life, Aisha says she was loved and treated kindly by the Prophet, and was the best of men. Aisha herself became a scholar and an authority in Islam , in which she is the second highest authority in narrating the most authentic hadiths. That means there would be no Islam nor would you or any person know about Islam if it was not for her.

That being said, if the above means to someone that she was a pedophile, then that makes pedophilia a great thing, since she was treated kindly by the Prophet, considered him the best of men, and she grew to be a great leader and scholar.

So in MODERN times, even if a 6 year old consents (a 6 year old of who's mental faculties are not yet at the greatest), it should not be taken in a negative light? Even if the man has sex with said girl at the age of 9?
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Fatihah
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7/14/2015 1:53:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/14/2015 1:09:26 PM, Pase66 wrote:

So in MODERN times, even if a 6 year old consents (a 6 year old of who's mental faculties are not yet at the greatest), it should not be taken in a negative light? Even if the man has sex with said girl at the age of 9?

Response: There is no harm in consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Islam looks at these conditions. Not age number.