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Religion and Political corectness

Theunkown
Posts: 36
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7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,045
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7/16/2015 4:55:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM, Theunkown wrote:
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.

Christianity makes itself an easy target, it seldom sticks up for itself this is why the gay community target Christianity while steering well clear of islam...

even the feminists who declared war on any hint of inequality seem too frightened to stand up for their sisters in islam who are forced to wear the ridiculous and demeaning garbs that cover their entire body and often involve chains that cover their eyes and are treat like fifth class citizens...

For some reason minorities cannot be questioned and must always be catered for...

by the time they cease to be a minority the rot will be set so deep it will not be removable..
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/16/2015 7:05:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 4:55:15 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM, Theunkown wrote:
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.

Christianity makes itself an easy target, it seldom sticks up for itself this is why the gay community target Christianity while steering well clear of islam...

You have to be joking. Christianity sticks up for itself just fine. Can you please cite an instance where the gay community 'targets' Christianity rather than just asking to have the same rights and privileges as every other citizen enjoys, usually against strong Christian opposition?

even the feminists who declared war on any hint of inequality seem too frightened to stand up for their sisters in islam who are forced to wear the ridiculous and demeaning garbs that cover their entire body and often involve chains that cover their eyes and are treat like fifth class citizens...

You're looking at western feminism and trying to shoe-horn it into a very different culture. It's not one size fits all no matter how much we may want to impose our own worldview on others.

http://www.pbs.org...

"Veiling," the Muslim custom of wearing hijab, is often viewed by non-Muslim feminists as an oppressive act that silences Muslim women and exemplifies the myth of Islam as inherently sexist and patriarchal. Yet, growing religious revivalism in the Muslim world has led to an increase in Islamic dress, including head coverings. For many Muslim women, wearing the headscarf has become a feminist act, serving as a symbol of their identity and a way to counter cultural imperialism. This is just one example of how Muslim women are defining and developing feminism " on their own terms.

For some reason minorities cannot be questioned and must always be catered for...

Are you a poor persecuted Christian?

by the time they cease to be a minority the rot will be set so deep it will not be removable..

Ooh. The boogie man is under your bed too. Don't look.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,045
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7/16/2015 7:19:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 7:05:31 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/16/2015 4:55:15 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM, Theunkown wrote:
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.

Christianity makes itself an easy target, it seldom sticks up for itself this is why the gay community target Christianity while steering well clear of islam...

You have to be joking. Christianity sticks up for itself just fine. Can you please cite an instance where the gay community 'targets' Christianity rather than just asking to have the same rights and privileges as every other citizen enjoys, usually against strong Christian opposition?

even the feminists who declared war on any hint of inequality seem too frightened to stand up for their sisters in islam who are forced to wear the ridiculous and demeaning garbs that cover their entire body and often involve chains that cover their eyes and are treat like fifth class citizens...

You're looking at western feminism and trying to shoe-horn it into a very different culture. It's not one size fits all no matter how much we may want to impose our own worldview on others.

http://www.pbs.org...

"Veiling," the Muslim custom of wearing hijab, is often viewed by non-Muslim feminists as an oppressive act that silences Muslim women and exemplifies the myth of Islam as inherently sexist and patriarchal. Yet, growing religious revivalism in the Muslim world has led to an increase in Islamic dress, including head coverings. For many Muslim women, wearing the headscarf has become a feminist act, serving as a symbol of their identity and a way to counter cultural imperialism. This is just one example of how Muslim women are defining and developing feminism " on their own terms.

For some reason minorities cannot be questioned and must always be catered for...

Are you a poor persecuted Christian?

by the time they cease to be a minority the rot will be set so deep it will not be removable..

Ooh. The boogie man is under your bed too. Don't look.

yeah Christianity sticks up for itself just fine, that's why two bakeries and B&B have been sued for trying to follow their beliefs.....

i guess the next thing will being forced to do gay weddings in churches...

so western feminism doesn't help muslim women..lol not a very good movement then really is it..

are you actually saying that islam does not force the women to wear the ridiculous garbs, i guess you will say muslim women have equal rights next....
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/16/2015 7:40:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 7:19:21 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/16/2015 7:05:31 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/16/2015 4:55:15 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM, Theunkown wrote:
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.

Christianity makes itself an easy target, it seldom sticks up for itself this is why the gay community target Christianity while steering well clear of islam...

You have to be joking. Christianity sticks up for itself just fine. Can you please cite an instance where the gay community 'targets' Christianity rather than just asking to have the same rights and privileges as every other citizen enjoys, usually against strong Christian opposition?

even the feminists who declared war on any hint of inequality seem too frightened to stand up for their sisters in islam who are forced to wear the ridiculous and demeaning garbs that cover their entire body and often involve chains that cover their eyes and are treat like fifth class citizens...

You're looking at western feminism and trying to shoe-horn it into a very different culture. It's not one size fits all no matter how much we may want to impose our own worldview on others.

http://www.pbs.org...

"Veiling," the Muslim custom of wearing hijab, is often viewed by non-Muslim feminists as an oppressive act that silences Muslim women and exemplifies the myth of Islam as inherently sexist and patriarchal. Yet, growing religious revivalism in the Muslim world has led to an increase in Islamic dress, including head coverings. For many Muslim women, wearing the headscarf has become a feminist act, serving as a symbol of their identity and a way to counter cultural imperialism. This is just one example of how Muslim women are defining and developing feminism " on their own terms.

For some reason minorities cannot be questioned and must always be catered for...

Are you a poor persecuted Christian?

by the time they cease to be a minority the rot will be set so deep it will not be removable..

Ooh. The boogie man is under your bed too. Don't look.

yeah Christianity sticks up for itself just fine, that's why two bakeries and B&B have been sued for trying to follow their beliefs.....

Bakeries don't have beliefs. That is the point. They are businesses and can't discriminate. Christians seem to have trouble with this simple concept, for reasons which escape me.

i guess the next thing will being forced to do gay weddings in churches...

No. Religious services are not a business. Separation of church and state.

so western feminism doesn't help muslim women..lol not a very good movement then really is it..

Feminism is about empowering women, not forcing them to accept cultural imperialism.

are you actually saying that islam does not force the women to wear the ridiculous garbs, i guess you will say muslim women have equal rights next....

I'm not saying it. Muslim women are. Lol.
Theunkown
Posts: 36
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7/16/2015 7:41:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 4:55:15 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/16/2015 2:46:21 AM, Theunkown wrote:
Below are the links to 2 debates, first is a Muhammed (prophet of Islam) drawing contest and the second is a debate comparing the Christian God to Hitler

[1]http://www.debate.org...

[2]http://www.debate.org...

I don't have a religion but it seems absurd to me that drawing a prophet of Islam, as 'offensive' as it might [illogically] be, is met with far far greater opposition than a debate that compares Christian God to Hitler.

I am sorry, but am I the only one who sees the disparity here? I mean, the Muhammad drawing contest is not even really insulting the primary Muslim prophet or their deity, especially when compared to a debate directly comparing the Christian deity to Hitler.
Even Non-Muslims rushed in to defend Muslims and requested the debate to be taken down! I never saw non-Christians or even Christians themselves, getting offended and asking for the debate to be taken down.

I can only imagine the reaction when the Muslim God is compared to Hitler.

Christianity makes itself an easy target, it seldom sticks up for itself this is why the gay community target Christianity while steering well clear of islam...

even the feminists who declared war on any hint of inequality seem too frightened to stand up for their sisters in islam who are forced to wear the ridiculous and demeaning garbs that cover their entire body and often involve chains that cover their eyes and are treat like fifth class citizens...

For some reason minorities cannot be questioned and must always be catered for...

by the time they cease to be a minority the rot will be set so deep it will not be removable..

I am in the political, social and economical far left in almost every way possible. But the only problem is that too many people on the 'left' take political correctness (PC) too far (of course a lot of them condemn PC culture as well). I don't mind people being freaked out for having their religion criticized because its natural (and its ok as long as they don't blow stuff up hint hint).

But all I ask is for some consistency, either accept criticism for any religion or ideology or condemn all forms of criticism. That's all I ask, un-hypocritical consistency.
Theunkown
Posts: 36
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7/16/2015 7:47:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
so western feminism doesn't help muslim women..lol not a very good movement then really is it..

Feminism is about empowering women, not forcing them to accept cultural imperialism.

are you actually saying that islam does not force the women to wear the ridiculous garbs, i guess you will say muslim women have equal rights next....

I'm not saying it. Muslim women are. Lol.
Of course Muslim women would say that, they delude themselves into thinking they have equal rights or have an apologist moderate (aka not true) interpretation of Islam. Failure to do the above, will result in apostasy (leaving Islam) and we all know how that turns out.
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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7/16/2015 7:54:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 7:47:07 AM, Theunkown wrote:
so western feminism doesn't help muslim women..lol not a very good movement then really is it..

Feminism is about empowering women, not forcing them to accept cultural imperialism.

are you actually saying that islam does not force the women to wear the ridiculous garbs, i guess you will say muslim women have equal rights next....

I'm not saying it. Muslim women are. Lol.
Of course Muslim women would say that, they delude themselves into thinking they have equal rights or have an apologist moderate (aka not true) interpretation of Islam. Failure to do the above, will result in apostasy (leaving Islam) and we all know how that turns out.

So we should impose our own set of values on "deluded" Muslim women?

Perhaps atheists should impose their own worldview on deluded Christians. In fact, why don't we just call anyone we don't like deluded and use that an excuse for cultural imperialism? That would work, right?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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7/16/2015 8:16:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 7:47:07 AM, Theunkown wrote:
I'm not saying it. Muslim women are. Lol.
Of course Muslim women would say that, they delude themselves into thinking they have equal rights or have an apologist moderate (aka not true) interpretation of Islam. Failure to do the above, will result in apostasy (leaving Islam) and we all know how that turns out.

That's not accurate at all, at least universally. That practice (declaring someone a non-Muslim because of sin on their part) is known as takfir. Centuries ago, a sect called the Khawarij existed, who would go around declaring Muslims to be unbelievers for committing what they considered grave sins. Murji'ah formed as a response to this movement, who held that whether or not a Muslim was a Muslim was determined by the Muslim in question; that, to be brief, a person could not be considered an apostate unless they declared themselves an apostate. The most prominent schools of Islamic thought (Maturidis and Ash'ari, which are the two biggest Sunni schools, and the Mu'tazila, who were a hugely influential Shi'a school) adopted the Murji'ah position with some modifications, while the Salafi movement more resembles the Khawarij.

The Salafi movement is opposed, both by traditional and moderate Islam (they are often the same thing). Historically, Islam has very much erred on the side of caution when it comes to declaring Muslims non-believers, and the fact that Salafis do it so readily is a cause of consternation for many traditional scholars.

" After a brief historical overview of the bloody origins of Wahhabism and the "Salafi" creed, the author turns to investigate the foundations of the shari`a which have been targeted by the Wahhabi/Salafi movement for revision, namely:

the Wahhabi/Salafi tampering of the doctrine of the pious Salaf concerning Allah"s essence and attributes, and his freedom from body, size, or direction;

their rejection of ijma` (scholarly consensus) and qiyas (analogy);

their rejection of the sources and methodological foundations of ijtihad (deriving qualified judgment) and taqlid (following qualified judgment).

The author then narrows down on the Wahhabi/Salafi practice of takfir, which is their declaring Muslims unbelievers, according to criteria not followed by the pious Salaf but devised by modern-day "Salafis." The author shows that the "Salafis" went out of bounds in condemning the Umma (Muslim Community) on the question of taqlid, declaring unbelievers all those who practice taqlid, that is, the majority of Muslims. Finally, the author turns to the linchpin of "Salafi" philosophy: leaving the ijma` of the true Salaf in declaring unbelievers all Muslims who use the Prophet Muhammad"s intercession, Peace be upon him, as a wasila or means of blessing."
Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -