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The Cost of Salvation

kp98
Posts: 729
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7/16/2015 4:46:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a general rule that religious sites ask for money and atheist/rationalist sites don't.

To know why donate $25 for my DVD, where I tell you how its all down to atheists getting all there mony from Richard Dorkins and al Quaeda to bring down the govmint and make us all gay.

Yes, just $25 dollars - is that too much to stop your kids from becoming gay atheists, because that's what will happen if I don't make lots of money for all my cars and whores - I mean for all my cares and woes about the world.

Praise the lord !!!
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/16/2015 8:08:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:45:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
I thought money was the root of all evil. If so, why do churches always seem to need it?

http://www.msn.com...

Because churches today have the devil in them, therefore they are evil.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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7/16/2015 8:13:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:45:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
I thought money was the root of all evil. If so, why do churches always seem to need it?

http://www.msn.com...

The reason why this story is so noteworthy is because it's not a common occurrence.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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7/17/2015 3:52:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:45:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
I thought money was the root of all evil. If so, why do churches always seem to need it?

http://www.msn.com...

the bible does not say you have to be poor to be saved......

yes there are some who make a large fortune from people in the same way many non believers make a large fortune...
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/17/2015 4:16:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
yes there are some who make a large fortune from people in the same way many non believers make a large fortune.
Semantic ambiguity there. Yes some belivers make money and so some unbelievers make money.

But - to exploit the ambiguity, few believers make their money in the same way as those 'believers' who exploit the gullible by selling them cheap DVD and books (or as a "reward for a donation"). Sure, plenty of non-believers sell DVDs and books, but they don't claim that their DVDs and books are approved by God and that you are a better Christian for buying them, or 'making a donation'.

Some evangelists aren't just well-off or rich - they are mega rich. I feel sorry for ordinary con men who don't have the advantage of dedicated TV channels to make their pitch to million of people at once.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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7/17/2015 4:21:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 4:16:55 AM, kp98 wrote:
yes there are some who make a large fortune from people in the same way many non believers make a large fortune.
Semantic ambiguity there. Yes some belivers make money and so some unbelievers make money.

But - to exploit the ambiguity, few believers make their money in the same way as those 'believers' who exploit the gullible by selling them cheap DVD and books (or as a "reward for a donation"). Sure, plenty of non-believers sell DVDs and books, but they don't claim that their DVDs and books are approved by God and that you are a better Christian for buying them, or 'making a donation'.

Some evangelists aren't just well-off or rich - they are mega rich. I feel sorry for ordinary con men who don't have the advantage of dedicated TV channels to make their pitch to million of people at once.

there are some false teachers for sure, they make a great deal of money, scam artists exist it's life...

Some are blessed of God and make a fortune but also do great things with that money...

You can only blame the con artists and pray for the gullibility of those who pay out too them but none of it is God's fault..

your wealth has nothing to do with salvation...
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/17/2015 4:29:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
the bible does not say you have to be poor to be saved......

Well it gets mighty close to saying it.

Matt 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

But what you should do with your money if you have it:

Acts 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

It seems giving your money to Christian televangelists predates televangelism.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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7/17/2015 5:48:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 4:29:23 AM, kp98 wrote:
the bible does not say you have to be poor to be saved......

Well it gets mighty close to saying it.

Matt 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

But what you should do with your money if you have it:

Acts 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

It seems giving your money to Christian televangelists predates televangelism.

the above refer to where your attention is not your actual wealth, a person with money is less likely to believe they need God for any thing as they feel their power is in their wealth..

it does not refer to having any actual wealth....
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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7/17/2015 7:50:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 5:53:37 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Why do we need 'salvation'?

if you wish to spend eternity in heaven you need saving.. if you don't want to spend eternity in heaven you don't want to be saved..
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,011
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7/17/2015 7:57:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:45:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
I thought money was the root of all evil. If so, why do churches always seem to need it?

http://www.msn.com...

To pay bills.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/18/2015 10:26:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Go out and see who helps the homeless.

In America, it is the Christians who are doing practically all the work.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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7/19/2015 9:15:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 10:26:09 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Go out and see who helps the homeless.

In America, it is the Christians who are doing practically all the work.

People who believe Christians are doing practically all the work for the homeless have been told lies and are not educated.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
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Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 2:29:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:15:46 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/18/2015 10:26:09 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Go out and see who helps the homeless.

In America, it is the Christians who are doing practically all the work.

People who believe Christians are doing practically all the work for the homeless have been told lies and are not educated.

They certainly are.

If you don't believe me, give up everything, wander the streets, and see who it is who actually puts for the time, work, and money to go out of their way to do these things.

Truly, God does all the work. But Christians are actually feeding people. Christians are actually giving people clothes. Christians are actually preaching a message of radical tolerance and acceptance. Christians prove this by actually going out and associating with the type of people that the rest of society has given up on and refuses to tolerate.

Yeah, Christians are putting in the majority of the work, at least here in America, and you have no idea how much hell we are holding back by doing so. If we didn't feed these people, they wouldn't starve and disappear. They wouldn't go out, find work, and then magically fix everything wrong with their lives. They would resort to crime. Many of these people would even like work. Many of these people wouldn't even be given a chance to work. Many of these people couldn't work if they wanted to! Many of these people have demons in them that prevent them from doing other things. Many of these people would rather live outside than feed into a society they see as corrupt and perverse.

You think crime is bad now? Watch and see what happens when Christians stop ministering to people. It wouldn't be pretty.

And if you don't believe me, like I said, give up all your things, run around and live outside. Take note of who it is that usually ends up helping you. It should become pretty evident that Christians are the one's pulling the serious weight.

That of course isn't to say that they are the only people. In fact, there is even a small atheist group cooperating with an organization I'm involved with.

The people who seriously investing in these things though? Nearly universally Christian. Investing doesn't just have to do with money either, I'm talking about putting in a great deal of hours.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/19/2015 3:11:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But by the same token, the vast majority of Christians do absolutely nothing for the homeless.

I think the sort of person who helps the homeless would help the homeless if they had been brought up to be a Christian, an atheist, a Jew, a Hindu or Muslim. If you are the sort of person who feels empathy for others, you will interpret your religion (or humanism) in that light, and if you are a selfish bigot, you will find support for that in your religion too.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 3:34:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 3:11:40 PM, kp98 wrote:
But by the same token, the vast majority of Christians do absolutely nothing for the homeless.

I think the sort of person who helps the homeless would help the homeless if they had been brought up to be a Christian, an atheist, a Jew, a Hindu or Muslim. If you are the sort of person who feels empathy for others, you will interpret your religion (or humanism) in that light, and if you are a selfish bigot, you will find support for that in your religion too.

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/20/2015 6:20:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 10:26:09 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Go out and see who helps the homeless.

In America, it is the Christians who are doing practically all the work.

And yet again, you are wrong.

I work for the VA. We and other government institutions serve and help far more homeless on a daily basis that do all the christian churches in America combined.

Secular charitable and private sector philanthropic organizations also help the homeless on a daily basis.

Just like we do not need religion or belief in a fictional god in order to live good and decent lives and posses morality, we also do not need it to help the less fortunate. Oh, there help is certainly welcome, but in no way shape or from are they the be-all and end-all to assisting the less fortunate.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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7/20/2015 6:23:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 4:46:57 PM, kp98 wrote:
It's a general rule that religious sites ask for money and atheist/rationalist sites don't.

To know why donate $25 for my DVD, where I tell you how its all down to atheists getting all there mony from Richard Dorkins and al Quaeda to bring down the govmint and make us all gay.

Yes, just $25 dollars - is that too much to stop your kids from becoming gay atheists, because that's what will happen if I don't make lots of money for all my cars and whores - I mean for all my cares and woes about the world.

Praise the lord !!!

Cheque's in the mail.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/20/2015 10:01:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 6:20:47 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/18/2015 10:26:09 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Go out and see who helps the homeless.

In America, it is the Christians who are doing practically all the work.

And yet again, you are wrong.

I work for the VA. We and other government institutions serve and help far more homeless on a daily basis that do all the christian churches in America combined.

Secular charitable and private sector philanthropic organizations also help the homeless on a daily basis.

Just like we do not need religion or belief in a fictional god in order to live good and decent lives and posses morality, we also do not need it to help the less fortunate. Oh, there help is certainly welcome, but in no way shape or from are they the be-all and end-all to assisting the less fortunate.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

I never said they were the be-all and end-all.

Certainly, I am not even implying that only Christians practice charity.

There is a secular institution in the city that I operate that specifically deals with homeless youth under the age of 24. Most of the people who work there are Christian, though the directer is actually a homosexual who is married!

Over in LA, they have the Gay and Lesbian center in Hollywood, which in my opinion is a fine example of a secular non-Christian organization that does a great deal to help people.

I find it very interesting that you mention the VA, because the homeless veterans I know don't think too highly of them. Certainly, the government does give out things like food stamps, though if some people had their way, this would be done away with.

However, if you were to put yourself on street level, and wander around, you would find that the people who go out of their way to do things are almost universally Christian. A lot of these secular institutions are even filled with Christians.

No, it isn't a requirement to identify with a religion to be charitable. However, charity is something that is built into the faith, and it really does motivate people.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer