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Religious Liberty Unjustly Trampled Agian!

Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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7/17/2015 11:43:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In the gay marriage debate many theists on DDO have said to the effect, "if gay marriage is legal what is to stop pedophilic marriages from becoming legal?" I finally understand this argument. Pedophilia should be legal! Just like with bakers have the religious right to call upon God to subvert man's law, in the case of Child Brides God's word should again go above the immoral laws of man.

This case in Australia, http://www.smh.com.au... where a father gave away his 12 year old daughter to a 26 year old man (who then got her pregnant) to protect her from having sex before marriage (which is a sin). How dare the Australian government put the soul of this poor little Muslim girl in jeopardy by not allowing her to be sold off to an older man!

Please read this and know the truth, our sacred religious liberty to exempt ourselves from the law because our invisible sky daddy tells us to must be protected! We must be able to deny gays access to the economy for God! We must marry children in the name of God! Death to all who would go against our God for our God is morally just!

What's next? Are we going to allow women to have access to birth control and proper health care? Who cares if they prevent abortions (which God doesn't mind abortions anyways Numbers https://www.biblegateway.com...). Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex? NO! That is not what God wants! If we allow the evil secularists to continue their campaign against God who knows what freedoms they will revoke next. Will I have the religious right to teach my children that modern medicine, like blood transfusions and vaccines, are the tools of the devil? I want my children to only read one book in their entire lives! The one book that truly matters to God. These damn school are trying to make them learn about other cultures and perspectives! Blasphemey! I don't want my child growing up to be a Muslim homosexual who votes democrat! It's not what God wants!
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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7/17/2015 1:13:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 11:43:13 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What's next? Are we going to allow women to have access to birth control and proper health care?

How is ceasing the natural and proper functioning of a healthy body "health care"?

Who cares if they prevent abortions?

Citation please.

Do you suppose people in Britain don't know about contraception?

http://www.breitbart.com...

Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex?

Which is more likely to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies? Condoms or abstinence?

Which one is more likely to not turn into using the other person? Condoms or abstinence?

Will I have the religious right to teach my children that modern medicine, like blood transfusions and vaccines, are the tools of the devil?

Sure, if you want to. As the parent you are the guardian and primary instructor of your child. You wouldn't be doing your children any favours though.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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7/17/2015 1:22:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 1:13:08 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/17/2015 11:43:13 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What's next? Are we going to allow women to have access to birth control and proper health care?

How is ceasing the natural and proper functioning of a healthy body "health care"?

Who cares if they prevent abortions?

Citation please.

You're not a big fan of logic are you? Condoms prevent unwanted pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies lead to abortion. Therefore condoms lead to less abortions.

Do you suppose people in Britain don't know about contraception?

http://www.breitbart.com...

I don't see your point. Religion doesn't prevent abortion at all: http://www.lisashea.com...

Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex?

Which is more likely to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies? Condoms or abstinence?

http://thinkprogress.org...

Which one is more likely to not turn into using the other person? Condoms or abstinence?

Religion is the foundation of authority using the masses.

Will I have the religious right to teach my children that modern medicine, like blood transfusions and vaccines, are the tools of the devil?

Sure, if you want to. As the parent you are the guardian and primary instructor of your child. You wouldn't be doing your children any favours though.

So you think it's a parents right to kill their child through purposeful negligence?
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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7/17/2015 1:54:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 1:22:46 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/17/2015 1:13:08 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/17/2015 11:43:13 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What's next? Are we going to allow women to have access to birth control and proper health care?

How is ceasing the natural and proper functioning of a healthy body "health care"?



Who cares if they prevent abortions?

Citation please.

You're not a big fan of logic are you? Condoms prevent unwanted pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies lead to abortion. Therefore condoms lead to less abortions.

I am actually. What you ignore is the Peltzman effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Now we can look at a real study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

BACKGROUND:
This study was designed to acquire information about the use of contraceptive methods in order to reduce the number of elective abortions.

STUDY DESIGN:
Since 1997, representative samples of Spanish women of childbearing potential (15-49 years) have been surveyed by the Daphne Team every 2 years to gather data of contraceptive methods used.

RESULTS:
During the study period, 1997 to 2007, the overall use of contraceptive methods increased from 49.1% to 79.9%. The most commonly used method was the condom (an increase from 21% to 38.8%), followed by the pill (an increase from 14.2% to 20.3%). Female sterilization and IUDs decreased slightly and were used by less than 5% of women in 2007. The elective abortion rate increased from 5.52 to 11.49 per 1000 women.


So in layman's term abortion increased with contraception.

Do you suppose people in Britain don't know about contraception?

http://www.breitbart.com...

I don't see your point. Religion doesn't prevent abortion at all: http://www.lisashea.com...

And I would love to see the stats on those who actually know and practice their faith. I'm willing to bet that it would be significantly different. Since we have created a sick culture, it doesn't surprise me that those of faith who do not separate themselves from the culture fall victim to its perils.

Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex?

Which is more likely to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies? Condoms or abstinence?

http://thinkprogress.org...

Uganda worked well before the UN came in and changed C to Condoms from Chastity - which undermines the program all together.

And in South Africa where they promote the hell out of condoms and give them away for free by the boatload had the highest increase in new AIDS cases:

http://mg.co.za...

Which one is more likely to not turn into using the other person? Condoms or abstinence?

Religion is the foundation of authority using the masses.

Or it is the vehicle to form form consciences according to reality.

So you think it's a parents right to kill their child through purposeful negligence?

Nope. I do however believe that parents naturally look out for their children better than the State does - despite the occasional failing in this respect.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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7/17/2015 2:40:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 1:54:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/17/2015 1:22:46 PM, Bennett91 wrote:

You're not a big fan of logic are you? Condoms prevent unwanted pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies lead to abortion. Therefore condoms lead to less abortions.

I am actually. What you ignore is the Peltzman effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

OMG you're a joke. To quote from wiki "A reanalysis of his [Peltzman] original data found numerous errors and his model failed to predict fatality rates before regulation (Robertson, 1977)."

Now we can look at a real study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

BACKGROUND:
This study was designed to acquire information about the use of contraceptive methods in order to reduce the number of elective abortions.

STUDY DESIGN:
Since 1997, representative samples of Spanish women of childbearing potential (15-49 years) have been surveyed by the Daphne Team every 2 years to gather data of contraceptive methods used.

RESULTS:
During the study period, 1997 to 2007, the overall use of contraceptive methods increased from 49.1% to 79.9%. The most commonly used method was the condom (an increase from 21% to 38.8%), followed by the pill (an increase from 14.2% to 20.3%). Female sterilization and IUDs decreased slightly and were used by less than 5% of women in 2007. The elective abortion rate increased from 5.52 to 11.49 per 1000 women.


You are an intellectual fraud and true scum of the earth. After this post I'm done talking to you. You copy and pasted everything but the conclusion. "CONCLUSIONS: The factors responsible for the increased rate of elective abortion need further investigation."

You don't even bother to take into account access has increased over the years. Man you're are too dumb.

Do you suppose people in Britain don't know about contraception?

http://www.breitbart.com...

I don't see your point. Religion doesn't prevent abortion at all: http://www.lisashea.com...

And I would love to see the stats on those who actually know and practice their faith. I'm willing to bet that it would be significantly different. Since we have created a sick culture, it doesn't surprise me that those of faith who do not separate themselves from the culture fall victim to its perils.

Sorry we can only go by those who self identify as a theist. Your attempt at 'no true scotsman' holds no ground here.

Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex?

Which is more likely to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies? Condoms or abstinence?

http://thinkprogress.org...

Uganda worked well before the UN came in and changed C to Condoms from Chastity - which undermines the program all together.

You are a liar and a fraud. HIV in Uganda has gone down since 1992. http://www.unaids.org...

And in South Africa where they promote the hell out of condoms and give them away for free by the boatload had the highest increase in new AIDS cases:

http://mg.co.za...

you are such scum and a liar.

"Knowledge of how HIV is transmitted and prevented declined from 30.3% in 2008 to 26.8% in 2012" this sounds like the work of the ignorance your religion peddles (http://www.pewresearch.org...). (http://mg.co.za...)

"Condoms have not been adequately promoted and made available among a number of populations at risk for HIV in SA, including prisoners, older adults, men who have sex with men (MSM), and persons with disabilities."

"Although generally available in all public health service facilities, male and female condoms are provided within a vastly overstretched public health care system. The burden of the HIV epidemic, alongside considerable human resource shortages, has resulted in a number of service-level related challenges to the condom programme. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Religion in Burundi: http://www.irinnews.org...

Which one is more likely to not turn into using the other person? Condoms or abstinence?

Religion is the foundation of authority using the masses.

Or it is the vehicle to form form consciences according to reality.

lol all your morals come from a book written in a time when slavery was morally acceptable, your book does nothing to elevate the mind. Had it really cared about the human condition slavery would have been, in no uncertain terms, abolished by Jesus.

So you think it's a parents right to kill their child through purposeful negligence?

Nope. I do however believe that parents naturally look out for their children better than the State does - despite the occasional failing in this respect.

Yet you would support the systemic and repeated failing that occurs when the religious put their faith above their children's lives.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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7/17/2015 2:53:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're an @$$hole. Did you know that?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Berend
Posts: 188
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7/17/2015 4:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 11:43:13 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
In the gay marriage debate many theists on DDO have said to the effect, "if gay marriage is legal what is to stop pedophilic marriages from becoming legal?" I finally understand this argument. Pedophilia should be legal! Just like with bakers have the religious right to call upon God to subvert man's law, in the case of Child Brides God's word should again go above the immoral laws of man.

This is arguably, and I am sorry for the bluntness, the dumbest, most nonsensical thing I have ever heard of all the slippery slope arguments. No one is every going to make it legal so a dad will sit in the living room while a 27 year old male is about to go on a date with the fathers 8 year old daughter. Never. Seriously, that is absolutely moronic to even think that. The difference here is gay marriage involves consent. Kids can not consent, otherwise you might have an argument.

As for the entire God bullcrap. People need to understand the bible directly tells you to follow the damn laws of the land. It's not that hard. If you dislike it, leave the nation. You do not get to inherently break laws or code of a nation because lolreligion. No, sorry.

This case in Australia, http://www.smh.com.au... where a father gave away his 12 year old daughter to a 26 year old man (who then got her pregnant) to protect her from having sex before marriage (which is a sin). How dare the Australian government put the soul of this poor little Muslim girl in jeopardy by not allowing her to be sold off to an older man!

OK, that is them. That is not America and that will never legally happen here.

Please read this and know the truth, our sacred religious liberty to exempt ourselves from the law because our invisible sky daddy tells us to must be protected! We must be able to deny gays access to the economy for God! We must marry children in the name of God! Death to all who would go against our God for our God is morally just!

I'm not sure if you are trolling, being factitious or just stupid. With how religious extremist on the right are, I honestly can not tell with you. I'm going to assume you are joking.

EDIT: NVM, I see you are an atheist. I feel silly. :lol:
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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7/17/2015 5:13:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 2:40:50 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/17/2015 1:54:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

OMG you're a joke. To quote from wiki "A reanalysis of his [Peltzman] original data found numerous errors and his model failed to predict fatality rates before regulation (Robertson, 1977)."

Under that particular circumstance.

If you read further you'd see:

Substantial further empirical work has found that the effect exists in many contexts

You are an intellectual fraud and true scum of the earth. After this post I'm done talking to you. You copy and pasted everything but the conclusion. "CONCLUSIONS: The factors responsible for the increased rate of elective abortion need further investigation."

Yeah needs more investigation... i.e. we got different results than we expected. Just keep on denying what the results of the study were...

You don't even bother to take into account access has increased over the years. Man you're are too dumb.

Fight science with personal attacks. Sure.

Do you suppose people in Britain don't know about contraception?

http://www.breitbart.com...

I don't see your point. Religion doesn't prevent abortion at all: http://www.lisashea.com...

And I would love to see the stats on those who actually know and practice their faith. I'm willing to bet that it would be significantly different. Since we have created a sick culture, it doesn't surprise me that those of faith who do not separate themselves from the culture fall victim to its perils.

Sorry we can only go by those who self identify as a theist. Your attempt at 'no true scotsman' holds no ground here.

Gee, I don't go to Church. I don't believe what the Church says (if I even know what it says). I have no intention of following what the Church says, but I do like Christmas mass. But I'm a member of that religion don'tcha know! If you can show me stats of 80-90% weekly attendance rates, I'll gladly grant you your argument.

Will we allow these evil secularists to teach our children how to prevent STD's and pregnancies via safe sex?

Which is more likely to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies? Condoms or abstinence?

http://thinkprogress.org...

Uganda worked well before the UN came in and changed C to Condoms from Chastity - which undermines the program all together.

You are a liar and a fraud. HIV in Uganda has gone down since 1992. http://www.unaids.org...

LOL. Your first article was about how the ABC program did not work. Yet now you are arguing that it was proven to work in Uganda. What happened was that it worked so well that people got complacent and now AIDS rates are on the rise again as the people are reverting to previous behaviours.

You talk about since 1992. However, the efforts began well before that. Like the following paper concluded, the majority of the decline was due to Abstinence and Be faithful and not the Condoms.

http://www.wisdomofwhores.com...

By 1995, only 6% of Ugandan women and 16% of Ugandan men had ever used a condom, with consistent use much lower.

http://www.ip.usp.br...

Thus it is clear that condom use was not the trigger to resolving the issue in Uganda.

Sure if you are not going to change your behaviour, then by all means use a condom. 10% chance of becoming infected with an HIV partner is better than the alternative. Abstinence is the only guaranteed way not to get an STD.

And in South Africa where they promote the hell out of condoms and give them away for free by the boatload had the highest increase in new AIDS cases:

http://mg.co.za...

you are such scum and a liar.

Thank-you for keeping the discussion civil. Funny isn't it that the insults only ever go one way? I quote a study by Bill and Melinda Gates (the obvious paragons of religious indoctrination) and get called scum and a liar. Nice.

"Knowledge of how HIV is transmitted and prevented declined from 30.3% in 2008 to 26.8% in 2012" this sounds like the work of the ignorance your religion peddles (http://www.pewresearch.org...). (http://mg.co.za...)

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that the prohibition against sex outside of marriage is emphasized prior to the one against condoms.

"Condoms have not been adequately promoted and made available among a number of populations at risk for HIV in SA, including prisoners, older adults, men who have sex with men (MSM), and persons with disabilities."

"Of all demographic groups, female adults who are under 40 years of age are most affected by HIV/AIDS... About 80% of 20 to 24 year old South Africans with HIV/AIDS are women... Despite the numbers, older adults are among the most educated about HIV/AIDS, with young adults slightly lagging behind."

http://www.medwiser.org...

Sure sounds like prisoners, older adults, MSM and disabilities group.

"Although generally available in all public health service facilities, male and female condoms are provided within a vastly overstretched public health care system. The burden of the HIV epidemic, alongside considerable human resource shortages, has resulted in a number of service-level related challenges to the condom programme. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

"Condom distribution is permitted in prisons, but only under the proviso that inmates undergo counselling and education programmes."

Oh NO! They have to be educated instead of just handing them out...

Religion in Burundi: http://www.irinnews.org...

"We [Muslims] are so exposed to the AIDS pandemic, especially because we believe in polygamy..."

So is it condoms or polygamy that is the problem?

Which one is more likely to not turn into using the other person? Condoms or abstinence?

Religion is the foundation of authority using the masses.

Or it is the vehicle to form form consciences according to reality.

lol all your morals come from a book written in a time when slavery was morally acceptable, your book does nothing to elevate the mind. Had it really cared about the human condition slavery would have been, in no uncertain terms, abolished by Jesus.

Slavery under the bible was nothing like slavery in the US. I'll debate you anytime on that - just challenge me.

Nope. I do however believe that parents naturally look out for their children better than the State does - despite the occasional failing in this respect.

Yet you would support the systemic and repeated failing that occurs when the religious put their faith above their children's lives.

So would you advocate harvest of organs from the infants killed in China's 1 child policy to save children here who need transplants?
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/17/2015 5:38:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is nothing stopping you from trying to get pedophilia marriage legalized. Let the voters decide. It doesnt violate the constitution.
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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7/17/2015 5:53:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/17/2015 5:38:21 PM, TyroneShelton wrote:
There is nothing stopping you from trying to get pedophilia marriage legalized. Let the voters decide. It doesnt violate the constitution.

Everything will eventually be legalized because marriage has been redefined.
TyroneShelton
Posts: 19
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7/17/2015 6:02:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Let democracy do what it does. You can spread youre view of why pedophile marriage is wrong, and the sepreme court will decide. Otherwise, you are oppressing others.
Imagine there's no heaven
It isn't hard to do
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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7/17/2015 11:14:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sexual intercourse is a natural function of the human animal.
Marriage is an unnatural condition imposed by the human animal.