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The Quran orders us to kill infidels because.

Julia5678
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7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
My Christian brothers and sisters, you all know that the Israelities wanted to kill Jesus because he spread the words of God. They wanted to kill Jesus as they had killed the other prophets.

"But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they turned their backs on your law.They killed"your prophets,"who had warned them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies." (Nehemiah 9:26)

For the same reason, the enemies of Islam wanted to kill Prophet Muhammad and his followers. They used to torture them and expel them from their cities. Muslims didn't give up and tolerated the sufferings. But they also asked Allah to save them from the oppressive people and protect them. So Allah ordered Muslims to fight the disbelievers and save Muslims.

"And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, 'Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" (the Quran 4:75)

If you read our heavenly book with an open mind, you understand that the Quran only orders Muslims to fight those who kill them and attack on other Muslims:

"Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers." (9:13)

According to the above verse, Polytheists were the first ones to kill Muslims.

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you." (2:190-191)

Allah orders Muslims to fight those who have fight them

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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7/18/2015 5:24:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Self defense and self preservation are already pretty dang instinctive. It need not be "commanded." If anything, martyrdom is what takes some convincing from above.

So, where is the allowance for Muslims to do battle with each other?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/18/2015 7:36:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The bible tells is to kill people who work on the Sabbath:

(Numbers 15:32-36)--"Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; 34and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36So all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses."

But we don't kill Sunday workers - we generally pay them double rate. Why don't we do what the bible says? We don't because there are not so many people in our culture telling us that doing so is the only correct way to interpret the passage is to kill anyone working on a Sunday - at least not at this time. That could change.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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7/18/2015 9:17:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 8:36:37 AM, seeu46 wrote:
At 7/17/2015 9:49:49 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
At 7/17/2015 9:35:49 AM, seeu46 wrote:

I hear your plea brother and I hear you. I don't hate any follower of Islam but I do hate the teachings of your book because I have read it and view it as a false teaching.


Would you please tell me exactly what teachings of the Quran you hate?

Here is a one for example.

Quran:024.002: "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

And some actually keep the punishment of death on "Adultery" in the Moshin Khan translation of the Quran.

Mohsin Khan: The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law).


While the Christ taught mercy and forgiveness.
John 8:5-11
Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?"
This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground.
But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him.
Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."


This code of ethics is superior in Christ.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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7/18/2015 9:19:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
My Christian brothers and sisters, you all know that the Israelities wanted to kill Jesus because he spread the words of God. They wanted to kill Jesus as they had killed the other prophets.

"But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they turned their backs on your law.They killed"your prophets,"who had warned them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies." (Nehemiah 9:26)

For the same reason, the enemies of Islam wanted to kill Prophet Muhammad and his followers. They used to torture them and expel them from their cities. Muslims didn't give up and tolerated the sufferings. But they also asked Allah to save them from the oppressive people and protect them. So Allah ordered Muslims to fight the disbelievers and save Muslims.

"And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, 'Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" (the Quran 4:75)

If you read our heavenly book with an open mind, you understand that the Quran only orders Muslims to fight those who kill them and attack on other Muslims:

"Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers." (9:13)

According to the above verse, Polytheists were the first ones to kill Muslims.

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you." (2:190-191)

Allah orders Muslims to fight those who have fight them

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Matthew 26:52
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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7/18/2015 9:21:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
...the enemies of Islam ... Allah ordered Muslims to fight the disbelievers ...

...you fight not in the cause of Allah

If you read our heavenly book with an open mind, you understand that the Quran only orders Muslims to fight those who kill them and attack on other Muslims:

Allah orders Muslims to fight those who have fight them

Both Jesus and Ghandi forbid people to fight under any circumstances, while Allah teaches to fight and kill, therefore Allah should not be followed.

The Quran teaches that we infidels are the enemies of Islam, hence Muslims will fight us.

A god that teaches it's followers to fight and kill is a false god.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/18/2015 5:14:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Truly said but coming from an atheist it's a little hard to believe. But atheists are in the same boat as any infidel in Muhammadanism--they are targets for killing as Muhammadanism is the supreme example of totalitarian religious dictatorship, the Nazi/Commie religion that kills those who don't follow the Party Line. Some party..there's no drinks served and my friends aren't allowed in unless they're dressed to kill.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/18/2015 9:51:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
My Christian brothers and sisters, you all know that the Israelities wanted to kill Jesus because he spread the words of God. They wanted to kill Jesus as they had killed the other prophets.

"But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they turned their backs on your law.They killed"your prophets,"who had warned them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies." (Nehemiah 9:26)

For the same reason, the enemies of Islam wanted to kill Prophet Muhammad and his followers. They used to torture them and expel them from their cities. Muslims didn't give up and tolerated the sufferings. But they also asked Allah to save them from the oppressive people and protect them. So Allah ordered Muslims to fight the disbelievers and save Muslims.

"And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, 'Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" (the Quran 4:75)

If you read our heavenly book with an open mind, you understand that the Quran only orders Muslims to fight those who kill them and attack on other Muslims:

"Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers." (9:13)

According to the above verse, Polytheists were the first ones to kill Muslims.

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you." (2:190-191)

Allah orders Muslims to fight those who have fight them

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Some people are so violently opposed to the Qur'an that they refuse to accept anything that might contradict their current understanding. People have been told a lot of lies.

It is true, the Qur'an teaches a message of peace, and the people who say otherwise are not properly educated.

God is the one who hardens hearts, and God is the one who reveals these things to people.

Just remember to always point people to reading the Qur'an itself, because they are already used to taking quotes out of context in order to reinforce their current understandings.

For people who have English as a first language, I recommend this translation.

http://www.amazon.com...

God be with you.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/18/2015 11:01:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"It is true, the Qur'an teaches a message of peace, and the people who say otherwise are not properly educated."

The above is a blatant lie that any non-Muslim can easily see by reading the Quran and matching its tenets with the behavior of Muslims seen on the news every single day of the week killing people, non-Muslims and fellow Muslims. Not exactly a sales pitch for a "religion of peace" but clearly an example of how easy it is to mislead people by waving ancient religious texts in front of them for them to read and follow--when they don't know better literature exists, Muslim community schools and libraries filtering out better religions and philosophies of social governance.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:01:58 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
"It is true, the Qur'an teaches a message of peace, and the people who say otherwise are not properly educated."

The above is a blatant lie that any non-Muslim can easily see by reading the Quran and matching its tenets with the behavior of Muslims seen on the news every single day of the week killing people, non-Muslims and fellow Muslims. Not exactly a sales pitch for a "religion of peace" but clearly an example of how easy it is to mislead people by waving ancient religious texts in front of them for them to read and follow--when they don't know better literature exists, Muslim community schools and libraries filtering out better religions and philosophies of social governance.

This has nothing to do with the way of life that the Qur'an describes.

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

It shows a naive understanding of the nature of causality to pinpoint what misleads people on religion or religious texts.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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7/19/2015 11:25:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

That's why we should never follow the Quran and instead have faith in people and human institutions because that's all we really have in reality. Bronze age myths and superstitions only tend to divide us and cause us to hate one another.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 1:56:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 11:25:39 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

That's why we should never follow the Quran and instead have faith in people and human institutions because that's all we really have in reality. Bronze age myths and superstitions only tend to divide us and cause us to hate one another.

No, you put your faith in God.

You have no idols before God. No partners with God.

You can not pin point natural human behavior on these things. They are not at the root. Human beings have a predisposition to dualistic ways of thinking. What I mean by that is, we are discriminatory creatures. We divide things. We say, "this or that".

While this type of thinking gives utility in the realm of creation, it makes communication of The Uncreated very difficult.

When I for example, say, "truth", the very concept of truth requires the inverse concept to exist. For "truth" to make sense, you have to have "falsehood" to contrast with it. This is the basis of duality, and it is intrinsic to the nature of creation. If you don't understand the nature of "creation", you can not understand what "The Uncreated" point to. This is why religion often has a devil to contrast with God. When you have them both together, you can solve the God riddle.

Now, it is easy to think that if you take two opposites and put them together, they cancel each other out and you get nothing. This is only one aspect of the riddle. It isn't the entire truth. You have to look at the whole picture, and realize that all of it is part of it. .

The realm of creation is inherently relativistic. You can't make sense of anything without something else to compare it to. It is of God, but it is only an image of God. God is beyond the image. God is that which stands on its own, that which does not need any other to exist. The nature of creation makes it nearly impossible to communicate this.

When you are dealing with creation, you face the inevitable issue that...

All Affirmations, statements of truth, experiences, understandings, etc.

Are

True in some sense
False in some sense
Meaningless in some sense
True and meaningless in some sense
False and meaningless in some sense
True, False, and meaningless in some sense.

And if you repeat this mantra a million times, you will reach enlightenment.. in some sense...

This has to do with the nature of creation. In the realm of creation, we do not deal with reality itself, but representations of reality. When we mistake the representations for being reality itself, leads to chaos and confusion.

God represents that which is non-dualistic. The One God. Being creation, we live in the world of duality. It is outside of creation, yet creation is an image of it. Creation is God breathed.

So understand, the concept of monotheism is far more radical in its scope than people usually realize. They place boxes around God keep them from understanding it. Their insistence of defining things traps them in the material world. The inability to see the opposites as part of the whole keeps them from seeing beyond creation.

The fall of man took place when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Certainly, all men and women understand good and evil. The problem is, if you put bad numbers in a perfect calculator, you aren't going to come up with the right answer. There are many variables unaccounted for here, and it screws up the math.

The Ultimate Reality is far more Real than even your highest concepts of what the word means.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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7/19/2015 2:15:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 1:56:37 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 11:25:39 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

That's why we should never follow the Quran and instead have faith in people and human institutions because that's all we really have in reality. Bronze age myths and superstitions only tend to divide us and cause us to hate one another.

No, you put your faith in God.

That would foolish considering no one, including yourself has ever shown any gods to exist. One might as well put their faith into unicorns.

You have no idols before God. No partners with God.

You can not pin point natural human behavior on these things. They are not at the root. Human beings have a predisposition to dualistic ways of thinking. What I mean by that is, we are discriminatory creatures. We divide things. We say, "this or that".

While this type of thinking gives utility in the realm of creation, it makes communication of The Uncreated very difficult.

So far, your explanation is meaningless, "this or that... The Uncreated".. what does any of that mean?

When I for example, say, "truth", the very concept of truth requires the inverse concept to exist. For "truth" to make sense, you have to have "falsehood" to contrast with it.

Sorry, that is incorrect. truth comes from hard evidence, not falsehoods. We don't need to know any falsehoods about gravity to know we'll wind up a splat on the pavement if we jump off a tall building.

This is the basis of duality, and it is intrinsic to the nature of creation. If you don't understand the nature of "creation", you can not understand what "The Uncreated" point to. This is why religion often has a devil to contrast with God. When you have them both together, you can solve the God riddle.

No, adding another invisible entity (devil) only adds more confusion as it can be shown God has committed more atrocities than the devil.

Now, it is easy to think that if you take two opposites and put them together, they cancel each other out and you get nothing.

Sorry, I don't see that at all, I see more confusion.

This is only one aspect of the riddle. It isn't the entire truth. You have to look at the whole picture, and realize that all of it is part of it. .

And, that means what, exactly?

The realm of creation is inherently relativistic. You can't make sense of anything without something else to compare it to.

Yes, I can,l that's a very easy thing to do.

It is of God, but it is only an image of God. God is beyond the image. God is that which stands on its own, that which does not need any other to exist. The nature of creation makes it nearly impossible to communicate this.

That's just gibberish, meaningless words you string together.

When you are dealing with creation, you face the inevitable issue that...

All Affirmations, statements of truth, experiences, understandings, etc.

Are

True in some sense
False in some sense
Meaningless in some sense
True and meaningless in some sense
False and meaningless in some sense
True, False, and meaningless in some sense.

And if you repeat this mantra a million times, you will reach enlightenment.. in some sense...

No, you won't any enlightenment considering you're just talking in circles, stringing words together in some vain attempt to explain something.

This has to do with the nature of creation. In the realm of creation, we do not deal with reality itself, but representations of reality. When we mistake the representations for being reality itself, leads to chaos and confusion.

And, you are seriously confused.

God represents that which is non-dualistic. The One God. Being creation, we live in the world of duality. It is outside of creation, yet creation is an image of it. Creation is God breathed.

Blah, blah, blah.. have you nothing comprehensible to say? It's all just words strung together.

So understand, the concept of monotheism is far more radical in its scope than people usually realize. They place boxes around God keep them from understandng it. Their insistence of defining things traps them in the material world. The inability to see the opposites as part of the whole keeps them from seeing beyond creation.

You still say nothing, you're just talking in nonsensical circles.

The fall of man took place when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A fairy tale for children. Thanks, but I think most of us here are adults.

Certainly, all men and women understand good and evil. The problem is, if you put bad numbers in a perfect calculator, you aren't going to come up with the right answer. There are many variables unaccounted for here, and it screws up the math.

And, that means what exactly? More words strung together in meaningless banter.

The Ultimate Reality is far more Real than even your highest concepts of what the word means.

LOL. If it is, you have failed miserably in trying to describe that, most likely because you have no idea what you're talking about and just making it up as you go along.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 2:30:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 2:15:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/19/2015 1:56:37 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 11:25:39 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

That's why we should never follow the Quran and instead have faith in people and human institutions because that's all we really have in reality. Bronze age myths and superstitions only tend to divide us and cause us to hate one another.

No, you put your faith in God.

That would foolish considering no one, including yourself has ever shown any gods to exist. One might as well put their faith into unicorns.

You have no idols before God. No partners with God.

You can not pin point natural human behavior on these things. They are not at the root. Human beings have a predisposition to dualistic ways of thinking. What I mean by that is, we are discriminatory creatures. We divide things. We say, "this or that".

While this type of thinking gives utility in the realm of creation, it makes communication of The Uncreated very difficult.

So far, your explanation is meaningless, "this or that... The Uncreated".. what does any of that mean?

When I for example, say, "truth", the very concept of truth requires the inverse concept to exist. For "truth" to make sense, you have to have "falsehood" to contrast with it.

Sorry, that is incorrect. truth comes from hard evidence, not falsehoods. We don't need to know any falsehoods about gravity to know we'll wind up a splat on the pavement if we jump off a tall building.

This is the basis of duality, and it is intrinsic to the nature of creation. If you don't understand the nature of "creation", you can not understand what "The Uncreated" point to. This is why religion often has a devil to contrast with God. When you have them both together, you can solve the God riddle.

No, adding another invisible entity (devil) only adds more confusion as it can be shown God has committed more atrocities than the devil.

Now, it is easy to think that if you take two opposites and put them together, they cancel each other out and you get nothing.

Sorry, I don't see that at all, I see more confusion.

This is only one aspect of the riddle. It isn't the entire truth. You have to look at the whole picture, and realize that all of it is part of it. .

And, that means what, exactly?

The realm of creation is inherently relativistic. You can't make sense of anything without something else to compare it to.

Yes, I can,l that's a very easy thing to do.

It is of God, but it is only an image of God. God is beyond the image. God is that which stands on its own, that which does not need any other to exist. The nature of creation makes it nearly impossible to communicate this.

That's just gibberish, meaningless words you string together.

When you are dealing with creation, you face the inevitable issue that...

All Affirmations, statements of truth, experiences, understandings, etc.

Are

True in some sense
False in some sense
Meaningless in some sense
True and meaningless in some sense
False and meaningless in some sense
True, False, and meaningless in some sense.

And if you repeat this mantra a million times, you will reach enlightenment.. in some sense...

No, you won't any enlightenment considering you're just talking in circles, stringing words together in some vain attempt to explain something.

This has to do with the nature of creation. In the realm of creation, we do not deal with reality itself, but representations of reality. When we mistake the representations for being reality itself, leads to chaos and confusion.

And, you are seriously confused.

God represents that which is non-dualistic. The One God. Being creation, we live in the world of duality. It is outside of creation, yet creation is an image of it. Creation is God breathed.

Blah, blah, blah.. have you nothing comprehensible to say? It's all just words strung together.

So understand, the concept of monotheism is far more radical in its scope than people usually realize. They place boxes around God keep them from understandng it. Their insistence of defining things traps them in the material world. The inability to see the opposites as part of the whole keeps them from seeing beyond creation.

You still say nothing, you're just talking in nonsensical circles.

The fall of man took place when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A fairy tale for children. Thanks, but I think most of us here are adults.

Certainly, all men and women understand good and evil. The problem is, if you put bad numbers in a perfect calculator, you aren't going to come up with the right answer. There are many variables unaccounted for here, and it screws up the math.

And, that means what exactly? More words strung together in meaningless banter.

The Ultimate Reality is far more Real than even your highest concepts of what the word means.

LOL. If it is, you have failed miserably in trying to describe that, most likely because you have no idea what you're talking about and just making it up as you go along.

You can't even read an entire post without trying to dissect it. Why don't you read the entirety of my post, and try again.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
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7/19/2015 9:02:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 2:30:26 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 2:15:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/19/2015 1:56:37 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 11:25:39 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

That's why we should never follow the Quran and instead have faith in people and human institutions because that's all we really have in reality. Bronze age myths and superstitions only tend to divide us and cause us to hate one another.

No, you put your faith in God.

That would foolish considering no one, including yourself has ever shown any gods to exist. One might as well put their faith into unicorns.

You have no idols before God. No partners with God.

You can not pin point natural human behavior on these things. They are not at the root. Human beings have a predisposition to dualistic ways of thinking. What I mean by that is, we are discriminatory creatures. We divide things. We say, "this or that".

While this type of thinking gives utility in the realm of creation, it makes communication of The Uncreated very difficult.

So far, your explanation is meaningless, "this or that... The Uncreated".. what does any of that mean?

When I for example, say, "truth", the very concept of truth requires the inverse concept to exist. For "truth" to make sense, you have to have "falsehood" to contrast with it.

Sorry, that is incorrect. truth comes from hard evidence, not falsehoods. We don't need to know any falsehoods about gravity to know we'll wind up a splat on the pavement if we jump off a tall building.

This is the basis of duality, and it is intrinsic to the nature of creation. If you don't understand the nature of "creation", you can not understand what "The Uncreated" point to. This is why religion often has a devil to contrast with God. When you have them both together, you can solve the God riddle.

No, adding another invisible entity (devil) only adds more confusion as it can be shown God has committed more atrocities than the devil.

Now, it is easy to think that if you take two opposites and put them together, they cancel each other out and you get nothing.

Sorry, I don't see that at all, I see more confusion.

This is only one aspect of the riddle. It isn't the entire truth. You have to look at the whole picture, and realize that all of it is part of it. .

And, that means what, exactly?

The realm of creation is inherently relativistic. You can't make sense of anything without something else to compare it to.

Yes, I can,l that's a very easy thing to do.

It is of God, but it is only an image of God. God is beyond the image. God is that which stands on its own, that which does not need any other to exist. The nature of creation makes it nearly impossible to communicate this.

That's just gibberish, meaningless words you string together.

When you are dealing with creation, you face the inevitable issue that...

All Affirmations, statements of truth, experiences, understandings, etc.

Are

True in some sense
False in some sense
Meaningless in some sense
True and meaningless in some sense
False and meaningless in some sense
True, False, and meaningless in some sense.

And if you repeat this mantra a million times, you will reach enlightenment.. in some sense...

No, you won't any enlightenment considering you're just talking in circles, stringing words together in some vain attempt to explain something.

This has to do with the nature of creation. In the realm of creation, we do not deal with reality itself, but representations of reality. When we mistake the representations for being reality itself, leads to chaos and confusion.

And, you are seriously confused.

God represents that which is non-dualistic. The One God. Being creation, we live in the world of duality. It is outside of creation, yet creation is an image of it. Creation is God breathed.

Blah, blah, blah.. have you nothing comprehensible to say? It's all just words strung together.

So understand, the concept of monotheism is far more radical in its scope than people usually realize. They place boxes around God keep them from understandng it. Their insistence of defining things traps them in the material world. The inability to see the opposites as part of the whole keeps them from seeing beyond creation.

You still say nothing, you're just talking in nonsensical circles.

The fall of man took place when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A fairy tale for children. Thanks, but I think most of us here are adults.

Certainly, all men and women understand good and evil. The problem is, if you put bad numbers in a perfect calculator, you aren't going to come up with the right answer. There are many variables unaccounted for here, and it screws up the math.

And, that means what exactly? More words strung together in meaningless banter.

The Ultimate Reality is far more Real than even your highest concepts of what the word means.

LOL. If it is, you have failed miserably in trying to describe that, most likely because you have no idea what you're talking about and just making it up as you go along.

You can't even read an entire post without trying to dissect it. Why don't you read the entirety of my post, and try again.

Okay, I read it again and it's still sh1t talk.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 9:14:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:02:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Okay, I read it again and it's still sh1t talk.

That's about all you seem to be capable of doing.

I'll go back to ignoring you.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
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7/19/2015 9:23:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:14:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:02:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Okay, I read it again and it's still sh1t talk.

That's about all you seem to be capable of doing.

I'll go back to ignoring you.

Why not try learning how to talk so others can comprehend what you're saying, instead?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
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7/19/2015 9:23:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:01:58 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
"It is true, the Qur'an teaches a message of peace, and the people who say otherwise are not properly educated."

The above is a blatant lie that any non-Muslim can easily see by reading the Quran and matching its tenets with the behavior of Muslims seen on the news every single day of the week killing people, non-Muslims and fellow Muslims. Not exactly a sales pitch for a "religion of peace" but clearly an example of how easy it is to mislead people by waving ancient religious texts in front of them for them to read and follow--when they don't know better literature exists, Muslim community schools and libraries filtering out better religions and philosophies of social governance.

This has nothing to do with the way of life that the Qur'an describes.

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

It shows a naive understanding of the nature of causality to pinpoint what misleads people on religion or religious texts.

Yep.

Look. the thread author is a little girl who really has no clue about the primary dogma of Islam. Nor its history or deleterious impact on the world today. She is obiously having emotional problems in life, most likely at the parental level. She feels outcast. Scared. And thus is looking for something to both grab onto and also to lash out with.

Hence choosing murderous Islam.

Further, I so completely and thoroughly "jobbed" her on another thread by showing all the violence and murder that Islam is responsible for that she, in juvenile fashion, abandoned THAT thread and, in basically admitting I was right, began THIS one which says, "Yeah...we are a murderous bunch of wackos, but here's why!"

LOL

Pathetic. I agree.

Kids.

I wold not pisss on this thread if it was on fire.

LOL.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 9:42:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:23:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:14:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:02:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Okay, I read it again and it's still sh1t talk.

That's about all you seem to be capable of doing.

I'll go back to ignoring you.

Why not try learning how to talk so others can comprehend what you're saying, instead?

You don't give me anything to work with. You simply contradict me, or claim that what I say is nonsense. These are my sincerely held beliefs, and I feel that I am expressing them in a manner that is lucid. I can't talk with you. You don't ask questions, you belittle everything I say, and you seem to be very comfortable in your own understanding.

When you actually show some respect and put forth the effort required for effective communication, I will gladly do what is possible for me to do. Your attitude thus far seems to sabotage any chance you'd have of learning something. Exchanges with you are so useless that I don't even think people watching could get anything meaningful out of it.

You are too quick to assume that if you don't understand something, that makes it nonsense. My words have meaning. I am not speaking word salad. If you want to understand me, shut up and listen. Ask questions. Save your criticism until after you grasp what it is I'm saying, because when you don't, it makes you look stupid.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 9:58:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:23:24 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:06:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:01:58 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
"It is true, the Qur'an teaches a message of peace, and the people who say otherwise are not properly educated."

The above is a blatant lie that any non-Muslim can easily see by reading the Quran and matching its tenets with the behavior of Muslims seen on the news every single day of the week killing people, non-Muslims and fellow Muslims. Not exactly a sales pitch for a "religion of peace" but clearly an example of how easy it is to mislead people by waving ancient religious texts in front of them for them to read and follow--when they don't know better literature exists, Muslim community schools and libraries filtering out better religions and philosophies of social governance.

This has nothing to do with the way of life that the Qur'an describes.

If you understand the Qur'an, you aren't going to put your faith in people or human institution.

It shows a naive understanding of the nature of causality to pinpoint what misleads people on religion or religious texts.


Yep.

Look. the thread author is a little girl who really has no clue about the primary dogma of Islam. Nor its history or deleterious impact on the world today. She is obiously having emotional problems in life, most likely at the parental level. She feels outcast. Scared. And thus is looking for something to both grab onto and also to lash out with.

Hence choosing murderous Islam.

Further, I so completely and thoroughly "jobbed" her on another thread by showing all the violence and murder that Islam is responsible for that she, in juvenile fashion, abandoned THAT thread and, in basically admitting I was right, began THIS one which says, "Yeah...we are a murderous bunch of wackos, but here's why!"

LOL

Pathetic. I agree.

Kids.

I wold not pisss on this thread if it was on fire.

LOL.

You don't really have an understanding of Islam either, you just like to think you do.

If you only knew the type of evil you were committing by perpetuating these false understandings. You end up demonizing the very people we need to communicate with.

The Qur'an is not evil. It preaches a religion of peace.

Do you realize how easy it is to make something look bad when you take things out of context?

Your enemy is not religion, it is your own sick head! Be honest! You aren't really studying these things properly, and it is insulting to the people who actually put the time and effort into it.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

The Qur'an, despite what people would have you believe, preaches a very radical message of tolerance and acceptance towards people of other faiths.

It is easy to take scripture out of context and make it look like Islam is about chopping the heads off of people who don't agree with you, but this couldn't be further than the truth.

People who have these misconceptions give away that they aren't educated about what they speak of, and haven't actually read The Qur'an. If they did, they very clearly didn't understand it very well, which is baffling to me, because it The Qur'an is very lucid and direct.

I would encourage everyone to read the Qur'an with an open mind. If you make Islam your enemy, you will lose. It is a fools battle. It is the wrong fight.

For the sake of global relations, don't perpetuate these lies. There are already too many people who believe in these things, and it justifies all sorts of evil in people's minds.

The powers that be have been working very diligently for a very long time to discredit and destabilize the Muslim world. Don't believe all this propaganda, it isn't the truth!
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/19/2015 10:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

But surely killing people over infidelity and homosexuality is okay, isn't it?

There are so few ways to kill unfaithful wives, wayward daughters and men whose sexuality make you uncomfortable nowadays, I think anyone advocating Islam really should make it clear whether this religion allows you to or not before you join.

Especially since once you join, leaving is punishable by death. (Or is that wrong too?)
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/19/2015 10:26:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

The Qur'an, despite what people would have you believe, preaches a very radical message of tolerance and acceptance towards people of other faiths.

It is easy to take scripture out of context and make it look like Islam is about chopping the heads off of people who don't agree with you, but this couldn't be further than the truth.

People who have these misconceptions give away that they aren't educated about what they speak of, and haven't actually read The Qur'an. If they did, they very clearly didn't understand it very well, which is baffling to me, because it The Qur'an is very lucid and direct.

I would encourage everyone to read the Qur'an with an open mind. If you make Islam your enemy, you will lose. It is a fools battle. It is the wrong fight.

For the sake of global relations, don't perpetuate these lies. There are already too many people who believe in these things, and it justifies all sorts of evil in people's minds.

The powers that be have been working very diligently for a very long time to discredit and destabilize the Muslim world. Don't believe all this propaganda, it isn't the truth!

Muhammadan! Until you can show Muhammadans are capable of stopping insanely violent Muhammadan killer apes in human form you can't proselytize Islam as it reeks of violent insanity to non-Muslims judging the religion by the actions of its followers who hit the frontpages every day by blowing themselves up or shooting people. That's the real Message of Muhammad shown to the world. Your words are merely camoflage hiding the violent core of Muhammad's teachings. You are merely here as a decoy to divert criticism of Muhammad's fascist ideology using God for cover and as such a phony shill spewing propaganda instead of truth about your religion of war.
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 10:33:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:16:55 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

But surely killing people over infidelity and homosexuality is okay, isn't it?


Certainly, people who cheat on their spouses do deserve death. These are not difficult things to resist.

But have you ever actually looked at the absurd requirements that are required to convict someone of such a thing in the Qur'an? It's so difficult to convict someone of adultery, that it is said that in all of history, you could count on one hand how many times the requirements have been met.

There are so few ways to kill unfaithful wives, wayward daughters and men whose sexuality make you uncomfortable nowadays, I think anyone advocating Islam really should make it clear whether this religion allows you to or not before you join.

Anyone who tries to justify sexual immorality or worse yet, claim that it is good, is a perverse person who doesn't understand the harm they do to the world around them by perpetuating these things.

Especially since once you join, leaving is punishable by death. (Or is that wrong too?)

This is extra-scriptural based. There is no corporeal punishment prescribed for apostasy outlined in the Qur'an.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 10:33:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:16:55 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

But surely killing people over infidelity and homosexuality is okay, isn't it?


Certainly, people who cheat on their spouses do deserve death. These are not difficult things to resist.

But have you ever actually looked at the absurd requirements that are required to convict someone of such a thing in the Qur'an? It's so difficult to convict someone of adultery, that it is said that in all of history, you could count on one hand how many times the requirements have been met.

There are so few ways to kill unfaithful wives, wayward daughters and men whose sexuality make you uncomfortable nowadays, I think anyone advocating Islam really should make it clear whether this religion allows you to or not before you join.

Anyone who tries to justify sexual immorality or worse yet, claim that it is good, is a perverse person who doesn't understand the harm they do to the world around them by perpetuating these things.

Especially since once you join, leaving is punishable by death. (Or is that wrong too?)

This is extra-scriptural based. There is no corporeal punishment prescribed for apostasy outlined in the Qur'an.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 10:35:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:26:48 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Muhammadan! Until you can show Muhammadans are capable of stopping insanely violent Muhammadan killer apes in human form you can't proselytize Islam as it reeks of violent insanity to non-Muslims judging the religion by the actions of its followers who hit the frontpages every day by blowing themselves up or shooting people. That's the real Message of Muhammad shown to the world. Your words are merely camoflage hiding the violent core of Muhammad's teachings. You are merely here as a decoy to divert criticism of Muhammad's fascist ideology using God for cover and as such a phony shill spewing propaganda instead of truth about your religion of war.

You don't even know what you are saying.

Quit being ridiculous and unreasonable.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/19/2015 10:35:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:33:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:16:55 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

But surely killing people over infidelity and homosexuality is okay, isn't it?


Certainly, people who cheat on their spouses do deserve death. These are not difficult things to resist.

Ah. Thank you, UT. I have another question then.

I have another question.

As you know, killing unfaithful wives, wayward daughters and homosexual sons is not normally permitted under the Infidel's permissive, degenerate, secular laws. Certainly not in the jurisdiction I live in, anyway.

However, suppose I became a Muslim, and hired a private detective to collect secret, detailed, and undeniable documentary evidence of my wife, daughter or son's prolonged and shameful misbehaviour.

Under the Religion of Peace, is it permissible to conceal my knowledge, lure them to Saudi Arabia (say) under false pretenses, present my evidence to a Wahhabi court and have them killed there?

Thank you for your help.
UniversalTheologian
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7/19/2015 10:50:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:35:28 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:33:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:16:55 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:11:52 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 9:52:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/18/2015 3:11:39 AM, Julia5678 wrote:
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers." (60:8-9)

Hi Julia... I'm not a Christian, but I understand that Muslims may be allowed to kill secular Muslims too -- since they ally with atheists, polytheists and other wrongdoers.

Please can you tell me, were I to become a Muslim, when may I kill my fellow Muslims for their tolerance and open-mindedness, and what is the approved manner of doing so?

No, Muslims are not to kill other people over matters of religion.

But surely killing people over infidelity and homosexuality is okay, isn't it?


Certainly, people who cheat on their spouses do deserve death. These are not difficult things to resist.

Ah. Thank you, UT. I have another question then.

I have another question.

As you know, killing unfaithful wives, wayward daughters and homosexual sons is not normally permitted under the Infidel's permissive, degenerate, secular laws. Certainly not in the jurisdiction I live in, anyway.

However, suppose I became a Muslim, and hired a private detective to collect secret, detailed, and undeniable documentary evidence of my wife, daughter or son's prolonged and shameful misbehaviour.

Under the Religion of Peace, is it permissible to conceal my knowledge, lure them to Saudi Arabia (say) under false pretenses, present my evidence to a Wahhabi court and have them killed there?

Thank you for your help.

Why do you ask such base and dishonest questions?

For every passage in the Qur'an that seemingly offers a draconian punishment for a crime, there is a passage next to it that explains how mercy triumphs over judgement.

There is nothing outlined in the Qur'an that is difficult for the honest person to accept.

Of course if you live in a society that glorifies sexual stupidity, you are going to have problems with people pointing out that promiscuity and infidelity is bad for everyone.

These behaviors are deplorable, and anyone who defends them is perverse! Just because something is allowed does not mean it is beneficial.

Certainly, people who cheat on their spouses deserve death. Does this mean that they will get what they deserve? Not necessarily.

And I'm not going to even humor this idea that homosexuality is a real thing. People who identify with their sexual lusts are perverse, and they are being demeaning to themselves by worshiping such fetishes. If you can't live with the fact men and women were intended for each other, take a vow of celibacy, and don't spread your corruption! Or better yet, marry anyway. You'll get used to it. People have been doing it since time immemorial.

Lust is not a healthy thing to base a relationship on.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
celestialtorahteacher
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7/19/2015 11:01:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 10:35:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 7/19/2015 10:26:48 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Muhammadan! Until you can show Muhammadans are capable of stopping insanely violent Muhammadan killer apes in human form you can't proselytize Islam as it reeks of violent insanity to non-Muslims judging the religion by the actions of its followers who hit the frontpages every day by blowing themselves up or shooting people. That's the real Message of Muhammad shown to the world. Your words are merely camoflage hiding the violent core of Muhammad's teachings. You are merely here as a decoy to divert criticism of Muhammad's fascist ideology using God for cover and as such a phony shill spewing propaganda instead of truth about your religion of war.

You don't even know what you are saying.

Quit being ridiculous and unreasonable.

If I don't know what I'm saying people can read thousands of other Westerner's opinions of Muhammad's boys in action following your idols, Muhammad and his book. I think verification easily obtained from most Western non-Muslims about my criticisms of your religion of war proves you're just a Muhammad propagandist who will say anything to sell the cheap used and dangerous Yugo of a religious vehicle, Muhammad's mad religion of war. Upgrade, Muhammadan, to the Ahmadiyyah Muslim religion that truly is a religion of peace because its followers follow their Messiah who ignored Muhammad's violent instructions and taught surrender to God as Peace, the real Islam that Muhammad never knew.