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Is a religion/theism-free world possible?

RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
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7/19/2015 11:59:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would say, yes and no. It's possible for universal established anti-religion/theism to take hold by force, but not a cooperative religion-free world. In fact, we would really need to separate the idea of a religion-free world from a theistic (God)-free world as they are actually 2 different themes. But that's another issue.

What I think the normal view of religion by the average "religion is a problem" person, is that a slow progress of education is needed in order to accomplish such a goal. And of course this is why so many are horrified at the thought of ID, the horror of horrors actually coming within a mile radius of a public school (the first concept given a restraining order?).

I don't think most of the "religion is a problem" crowd really even know what they want. It seems to boil down to personal taste. If a roving reporter were to question random people along Venice Beach, specifically belonging to the "religion is a problem" crowd, most of them would not want religious cultural influences removed from society. They want the nice European-esque cathedrals, Buddhist statues, Hindu temples, mosques, etc. to remain in tact. Many people freaked at the destruction of Buddhist statues being destroyed in Afghanistan and China. Even distraught over the destruction of Christian architecture behind the old iron curtain. They want religion to be the cute seen but not heard child. Basically, the have my cake and eat it too theme.

I think there are some leaning more towards the more militant "religion is a problem" version judging from actions of various atheist activist groups who literally seek removal of Christian statues, monuments, etc. Ironically, Richard Dawkins, a member of a prominent atheist activist group in the U.S., had some not too flattering words for his American counter-parts. Even Dawkins has sentimental feelings towards cultural Christianity in Britain.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to believe that the non-religion/theism alternative to our pluralistic society as it it is now would resemble anything other than a global (or American) North Korea. The only question that remains is....which is preferable?
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/19/2015 12:34:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think it is unlikely that a theism free world world would resemble a global North Korea! The problems of NK are because it is a disfunctional state and it wouldn't be any better if it was religious, unless they also fixed the economy.

As a Brit, I am used to living in a state were religion plays little or no part in most people's lives. Of course we have a long tradition of religion, but these days religion provides little more than picturesque ritual. Britain - despite being almost godless - does not resemble North Korea. The same goes for other several other european countries.

Certainly many atheists complain when cathedrals or shrines are destroyed - I do. The reason is the mindless destriction of art and beautiful objects is always to be resisted. Many such objects are ancient, unique and of great beauty and once gone cannot be replaced.

I spent a great deal of time in the 3rd world and I fear one of the biggest effects of a theism-free world would be on the poor of those regions. Religion is false hope, but it is hope. Without religion their lives would be even more miserable. But perhaps if we stopped using the placebo of religion we would actually do something about the world poorest beyond making sure they all had bibles.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/19/2015 12:57:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 11:59:49 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to believe that the non-religion/theism alternative to our pluralistic society as it it is now would resemble anything other than a global (or American) North Korea. The only question that remains is....which is preferable?

North Korea is a religious dictatorship just as Stalinist USSR was, Roderick. It's a religion built on a personality cult -- exactly the sort of thing that happened under Julio-Claudian Rome as an imperial cult arose to turn a democracy into an imperial dictatorship.

Jesus has a personality cult too, of course. However, a great benefit of following Jesus and not Kim Jong-un is that Jesus can't make money or privilege from your adherence.

On the other hand, people claiming they speak for Jesus, can.

Back to topic: is a theism-free world possible? Yes, definitely. We could all be Buddhists or Samkhya Hindus. A religion-free world? I'm not so sure.
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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7/19/2015 1:15:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Humans are hard-wired for theism. Just look at the militant atheists. There theology is based on dogmatic scientific beliefs that are unproven.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,131
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7/19/2015 1:19:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 11:59:49 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
I would say, yes and no. It's possible for universal established anti-religion/theism to take hold by force, but not a cooperative religion-free world. In fact, we would really need to separate the idea of a religion-free world from a theistic (God)-free world as they are actually 2 different themes. But that's another issue.

What I think the normal view of religion by the average "religion is a problem" person, is that a slow progress of education is needed in order to accomplish such a goal. And of course this is why so many are horrified at the thought of ID, the horror of horrors actually coming within a mile radius of a public school (the first concept given a restraining order?).

I don't think most of the "religion is a problem" crowd really even know what they want. It seems to boil down to personal taste. If a roving reporter were to question random people along Venice Beach, specifically belonging to the "religion is a problem" crowd, most of them would not want religious cultural influences removed from society. They want the nice European-esque cathedrals, Buddhist statues, Hindu temples, mosques, etc. to remain in tact. Many people freaked at the destruction of Buddhist statues being destroyed in Afghanistan and China. Even distraught over the destruction of Christian architecture behind the old iron curtain. They want religion to be the cute seen but not heard child. Basically, the have my cake and eat it too theme.

I think there are some leaning more towards the more militant "religion is a problem" version judging from actions of various atheist activist groups who literally seek removal of Christian statues, monuments, etc. Ironically, Richard Dawkins, a member of a prominent atheist activist group in the U.S., had some not too flattering words for his American counter-parts. Even Dawkins has sentimental feelings towards cultural Christianity in Britain.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to believe that the non-religion/theism alternative to our pluralistic society as it it is now would resemble anything other than a global (or American) North Korea. The only question that remains is....which is preferable?

I can't speak for the "religion is a problem" crowd since (at this point in time) I am not an anti-theist. Although, I see there are problems that have come as a result of religion, and yes, those things need to go away. I do believe education is the solution. Do I think that is possible? Yes, I do. Do I think that will happen in my lifetime? No, I don't.

Also, objecting to government-endorsed (and sometimes government subsidized) religion is not infringing upon religious freedom. It may be infringing upon an inappropriate religious sense of entitlement, but that is not comparable to the (more or less) complete lack of religious freedom in North Korea. I am for religious freedom and (believe it or not) atheists are legally entitled not to have religion shoved down our throats by our collective government.
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What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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7/19/2015 1:59:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 11:59:49 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
Is a religion/theism-free world possible?

Communists tried to get rid of religion/theism. They failed miserably. I don"t think modern atheists could do any better, because:

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt. 24:35

And that is probably so annoying for atheists that they will do anything to try to show those words wrong.

I don"t think there is any good reason to try to get rid of words of Jesus, because He has good message that we should love others as ourselves. It is quite evil to be against love.