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The real question about god

darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/19/2015 5:58:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christian Theology is not what you think it is.

It isn't about lying to yourself. What does it mean to be justified by faith? It's about being honest about what you believe in.

God represents "The Ultimate Reality". You can fight man and man made institution all you want, but fighting God is foolish. The kind of self deceit you are talking about will only keep you from God. God represents "The Truth".

The name "Jesus" means "God Saves". To accept Jesus as your lord and savior is the same thing as saying, "The Truth will set you free".

No, you've got it all wrong. Nearly all of the problems you might have with the church are prophesied of in The New Testament. The things you are having a problem with don't represent Jesus.

In fact, the Gospel is one of liberation, not bondage.

"Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations" "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using"according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh."
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Philocat
Posts: 728
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7/19/2015 6:02:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You seem to have a significant misunderstanding of religious belief - all stemming from your misconceptions about hell. I will (hopefully) help you to understand.

Firstly, God doesn't 'send you to hell' like a judge sends a prisoner to prison. You send yourself to hell, it is freely chosen. God is simply respecting your free will.

In life, God gives us two options;

1. Be with God after we die (heaven)
2. Be without God after we die (hell)

As beings of free will, we should be allowed to freely make this decision, and a loving God must respect our decision; otherwise he is disregarding our free will and forcing us to do something we didn't necessarily choose.

So, if people choose to be without God, then a loving God will grant their wish. Simple as that. Mortally sinning without repenting, as well as rejection of God, are both expressions of the choice to be without God. This is, in a theological understanding, what hell is - the absence of God.

Consequently, all your misconceptions about God are built upon a very shaky foundation (the belief that hell and a loving God are incompatible) that I have just dismantled.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/19/2015 6:28:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.

Some do have the ability and intellect to question and even leave their religions. Just ask the agnostics and atheists on line. You will find many grew up with religious parents and were forced to attend church when young.

And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.

The sad thing is most believers tend to think God is some invisible supernatural individual. They fail to understand he is nothing but a personification of the forces of the universe in much the same way Mother Nature is a personification of the forces of nature.

The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.

Can you win any "fight" with Mother Nature? People can try to reject the forces of the universe and the forces of nature as much as they want but life ends in death no matter what anyone does.

Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.

It is as futile as trying to sacrifice to any mythical god to stop them from creating natural disasters, pain and suffering on the planet.
The people who do it are superstitious and do not understand they cannot control nature or please it because it is impartial and neutral to human desires. It has no emotions or desires of its own.

In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.

Stop being superstitious. Mother Nature can do all the same things to you that God can do. Does she exist?
Are you afraid she will destroy you one day?

Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:

The point of view is simply a childish view from superstitious people who do not understand anthropomorphism.

You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?

The doubt in people is what saves them from being duped by their own childish mind and childish ways of thinking. It is "telling them" something is wrong and they need to do something about changing their way of thinking. Personifying the powers of the universe and praying to them to try to please them and stop them from doing harm is plain childish superstition.

-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.

I doubt anyone is equal with nature and the powers that be but we can grow up enough to understand them and how they work even if we cannot control them. We can harness the powers and use them for good.
Nature does not need to forgive humans for anything. Forgiveness is a human concept and attitude which humans have toward themselves and each other or not.
There is no location called hell where sinners burn forever. Hell is a state of mind which some live in and some do not. After death, all end up in the grave. The only time you will literally burn is if you get cremated but I doubt dead bodies even feel it.
We have choices we can make while we are alive but we have no choices when it comes to dying IF we leave our time of death up to Mother Nature. She alone has control unless people decide to kill themselves.

But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.

Most desire to live but that desire does not stop us from dying. Death is part of life. None of us chose to be born and none of us choose to die but here we are for a limited amount of time. Life makes some choices for us and gives us limited choices when it comes to things that make no difference in the end.

Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.

Nature has unlimited power. Only a fool would try to fight against Nature and believe they can win. None of us are free from the natural processes of life which end in death.

Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

As far as I can see, the purpose of Nature and all of life is to reproduce after its own kind to keep life alive.
It is a simple recycling process and we are all part of it and there is not a thing we can do to change it.
I am not a result of mutation. I am a result of recycled energy which has many different reproduction cycles which do not take long to form into a mass from a tiny cell in any of its cycles. It definitely does not take billions of years.

I am energy which cannot be destroyed. In that sense, I am eternal and so is everyone else.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 6:02:55 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You seem to have a significant misunderstanding of religious belief - all stemming from your misconceptions about hell. I will (hopefully) help you to understand.

Firstly, God doesn't 'send you to hell' like a judge sends a prisoner to prison. You send yourself to hell, it is freely chosen. God is simply respecting your free will.

In life, God gives us two options;

1. Be with God after we die (heaven)
2. Be without God after we die (hell)

As beings of free will, we should be allowed to freely make this decision, and a loving God must respect our decision; otherwise he is disregarding our free will and forcing us to do something we didn't necessarily choose.

So, if people choose to be without God, then a loving God will grant their wish. Simple as that. Mortally sinning without repenting, as well as rejection of God, are both expressions of the choice to be without God. This is, in a theological understanding, what hell is - the absence of God.

Consequently, all your misconceptions about God are built upon a very shaky foundation (the belief that hell and a loving God are incompatible) that I have just dismantled.

I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell. Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two. It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will. If he gave us free will he would have to give as at least the third option - to completely disappear (go neither to hell or heaven). For me it's like would you rather be shot in a leg or an arm.
If you look upon this problem completely objectively (I know you are not able) it looks like he has designed subjects with free will, put them on Earth, set rules (10 commandments), reward and punishment and then pressed START. And from then on peple have been playing this game - winning or losing. And I don't want to play this game.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
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7/20/2015 3:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

I was not raised in a religion, many I know where not raised in a religion..

Are you so childish that you do not know decisions you make in your life have consequence...
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 3:49:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 6:28:16 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.

Some do have the ability and intellect to question and even leave their religions. Just ask the agnostics and atheists on line. You will find many grew up with religious parents and were forced to attend church when young.


And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.

The sad thing is most believers tend to think God is some invisible supernatural individual. They fail to understand he is nothing but a personification of the forces of the universe in much the same way Mother Nature is a personification of the forces of nature.

The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.

Can you win any "fight" with Mother Nature? People can try to reject the forces of the universe and the forces of nature as much as they want but life ends in death no matter what anyone does.

Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.

It is as futile as trying to sacrifice to any mythical god to stop them from creating natural disasters, pain and suffering on the planet.
The people who do it are superstitious and do not understand they cannot control nature or please it because it is impartial and neutral to human desires. It has no emotions or desires of its own.

In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.

Stop being superstitious. Mother Nature can do all the same things to you that God can do. Does she exist?
Are you afraid she will destroy you one day?

Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:

The point of view is simply a childish view from superstitious people who do not understand anthropomorphism.

You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?

The doubt in people is what saves them from being duped by their own childish mind and childish ways of thinking. It is "telling them" something is wrong and they need to do something about changing their way of thinking. Personifying the powers of the universe and praying to them to try to please them and stop them from doing harm is plain childish superstition.

-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.

I doubt anyone is equal with nature and the powers that be but we can grow up enough to understand them and how they work even if we cannot control them. We can harness the powers and use them for good.
Nature does not need to forgive humans for anything. Forgiveness is a human concept and attitude which humans have toward themselves and each other or not.
There is no location called hell where sinners burn forever. Hell is a state of mind which some live in and some do not. After death, all end up in the grave. The only time you will literally burn is if you get cremated but I doubt dead bodies even feel it.
We have choices we can make while we are alive but we have no choices when it comes to dying IF we leave our time of death up to Mother Nature. She alone has control unless people decide to kill themselves.

But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.

Most desire to live but that desire does not stop us from dying. Death is part of life. None of us chose to be born and none of us choose to die but here we are for a limited amount of time. Life makes some choices for us and gives us limited choices when it comes to things that make no difference in the end.

Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.

Nature has unlimited power. Only a fool would try to fight against Nature and believe they can win. None of us are free from the natural processes of life which end in death.


Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

As far as I can see, the purpose of Nature and all of life is to reproduce after its own kind to keep life alive.
It is a simple recycling process and we are all part of it and there is not a thing we can do to change it.
I am not a result of mutation. I am a result of recycled energy which has many different reproduction cycles which do not take long to form into a mass from a tiny cell in any of its cycles. It definitely does not take billions of years.

OK, but what I wanted you to answer is why, in your opinion, is the thing that keeps people from realizing that god doesn't exist - what kind of thinking processes occur in their brain.
The first statement: I meant Christians that remain religious; I know some people realize it is stupid, that was my case.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
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7/20/2015 4:01:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

you started the bull rolling, with too many assumptions and insufficient knowledge..
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 4:01:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 3:38:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

I was not raised in a religion, many I know where not raised in a religion..

Are you so childish that you do not know decisions you make in your life have consequence...

I don't understand what you are saying.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/20/2015 4:02:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

That is what I think, you moron. The "quote's" author is myself.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/20/2015 4:06:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 4:02:27 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

That is what I think, you moron. The "quote's" author is myself.

And that's not just what I think, but you don't understand about Christianity. You wanted a thought, and I gave you one. You don't like it, whatever.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 4:14:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 4:01:08 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

you started the bull rolling, with too many assumptions and insufficient knowledge..

I said that what I wrote is what I think and I wanted people to comment. Interpretations of Bible is not knowledge in my dictionary, because it is based on 2000 year old book and a fool how believes without an evidence.
To avoid further misunderstandings I want to say that this question is meant for ateists only.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 4:22:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 4:06:08 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 4:02:27 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

That is what I think, you moron. The "quote's" author is myself.

And that's not just what I think, but you don't understand about Christianity. You wanted a thought, and I gave you one. You don't like it, whatever.

It is true and I owe you an apology; I forgot I asked for opinoin, but I thought this was going to be an atheistic debate and to avoid any further misunderstandings I am only interested in atheistic responses.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/20/2015 5:12:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 3:49:00 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:28:16 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The point of view is simply a childish view from superstitious people who do not understand anthropomorphism.

The doubt in people is what saves them from being duped by their own childish mind and childish ways of thinking. It is "telling them" something is wrong and they need to do something about changing their way of thinking. Personifying the powers of the universe and praying to them to try to please them and stop them from doing harm is plain childish superstition.

Nature does not need to forgive humans for anything. Forgiveness is a human concept and attitude which humans have toward themselves and each other or not.
There is no location called hell where sinners burn forever. Hell is a state of mind which some live in and some do not. After death, all end up in the grave. The only time you will literally burn is if you get cremated but I doubt dead bodies even feel it.
We have choices we can make while we are alive but we have no choices when it comes to dying IF we leave our time of death up to Mother Nature. She alone has control unless people decide to kill themselves.


OK, but what I wanted you to answer is why, in your opinion, is the thing that keeps people from realizing that god doesn't exist - what kind of thinking processes occur in their brain.

An immature thinking process. The same kind that occurs in the mind of a child who believes in fairy tales.
It is due to a lack of maturity.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.

Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two.

That's because there is only two choices. It's called a dichotomy. Either you choose to be with God or you choose to be without him, there are no other options that could possibly exist.

It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will.

He indirectly sends you to hell (which is simply the state of being without God) not because you don't fulfil his will. He sends you because you choose to go.

If he gave us free will he would have to give as at least the third option - to completely disappear (go neither to hell or heaven). For me it's like would you rather be shot in a leg or an arm.

That would also be a form of hell (the second option), in a way, since non-existence is technically a state of being without God. So this eschatological fate (annihilation) could be what is given to those who choose to reject God. Either way, your point doesn't really hurt the position that there are two choices. You're just arguing over what the second option consists of.

If you look upon this problem completely objectively (I know you are not able)

Why do you make this baseless assertion? On what grounds does my post demonstrate a subjective bias?

it looks like he has designed subjects with free will, put them on Earth, set rules (10 commandments), reward and punishment and then pressed START. And from then on peple have been playing this game - winning or losing. And I don't want to play this game.

You may see it like that, so be it. But what it actually is, is that God has created humans as autonomous, rational beings and he has given us a life on this earth in which we can live freely and choose our own destiny. God, respecting our autonomous nature, offers us a choice of what happens to us when we die. We choose by how we live in this life; if we accept God and choose to be with him after we die, then he will respect our decision. Likewise, if we reject God and choose to be apart from him after we die, God will similarly respect our decision.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/20/2015 5:36:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.

Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two.

That's because there is only two choices. It's called a dichotomy. Either you choose to be with God or you choose to be without him, there are no other options that could possibly exist.

It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will.

He indirectly sends you to hell (which is simply the state of being without God) not because you don't fulfil his will. He sends you because you choose to go.

If he gave us free will he would have to give as at least the third option - to completely disappear (go neither to hell or heaven). For me it's like would you rather be shot in a leg or an arm.

That would also be a form of hell (the second option), in a way, since non-existence is technically a state of being without God. So this eschatological fate (annihilation) could be what is given to those who choose to reject God. Either way, your point doesn't really hurt the position that there are two choices. You're just arguing over what the second option consists of.

If you look upon this problem completely objectively (I know you are not able)

Why do you make this baseless assertion? On what grounds does my post demonstrate a subjective bias?

it looks like he has designed subjects with free will, put them on Earth, set rules (10 commandments), reward and punishment and then pressed START. And from then on peple have been playing this game - winning or losing. And I don't want to play this game.

You may see it like that, so be it. But what it actually is, is that God has created humans as autonomous, rational beings and he has given us a life on this earth in which we can live freely and choose our own destiny. God, respecting our autonomous nature, offers us a choice of what happens to us when we die. We choose by how we live in this life; if we accept God and choose to be with him after we die, then he will respect our decision. Likewise, if we reject God and choose to be apart from him after we die, God will similarly respect our decision.

Then if I may ask, why would you choose to be with him after you die (a personal question to you).
Skyangel
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7/20/2015 5:41:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.


How can anyone choose to be without something that is everywhere? That is like choosing to be without space. It is impossible to avoid something that is everywhere. However, feel free to kid yourself that anyone can be separate from something that is everywhere. There is no such separation except in the minds of the deluded and those who are brainwashed with false doctrines.

God is also in hell according to scripture.
Pslam 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Hell is a state of mind in which self deceived and deluded people live. They hide in fantasies and refuse to face reality.
They tell themselves lies and believe their own lies.
Skyangel
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7/20/2015 5:52:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:

Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two.

That's because there is only two choices. It's called a dichotomy. Either you choose to be with God or you choose to be without him, there are no other options that could possibly exist.

You choose to be self deceived or you choose to grow up and come out of the self deception in much the same way as a child grows up and stops believing in Santa as they realize they ARE the person who has the power and ability to give presents to others anonymously.
All gods are as mythical as Santa.

It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will.

He indirectly sends you to hell (which is simply the state of being without God) not because you don't fulfil his will. He sends you because you choose to go.

I told you there is no state of being without something that is everywhere. Not even the dead are free from that which exists everywhere.

Hell is a state of mind where the mind is self deceived, confused and deluded to believe in myths and fantasies.
abbastruth
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7/20/2015 6:20:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The debate about religion and God will never be understood by either side. This will fall on def ears, I've had these conversations before and it always ends the same. I might also be told that this isn't the right post and I've not answered the original question. Faith is real, but what you choose to have faith in is what is really important. The power of self. I know, the religious buffs will say...you get that from God. Honestly I don't care where the power of self comes from. I don't need a guide book on how to live in this life. Now I'm not saying that some of what I live doesn't fall in line with what is written in the Bibles. A lot of what's written makes sense, a lot of it doesn't. Religion is very important to humans in this world. It would be much more chaotic without it. It's human nature to be bad, selfish, greedy, loving , vengeful...you get the point. If religion didn't exist things would be a lot worse, the majority of people need to be guided. It makes life easier to live by a book when people lack common sense and common decency. You see, people have a need to know why we exist, why we're here. I don't, and I don't care to know why. We do. Religion helps humans deal with what is considered something that can't be dealt with. The human psyche is delicate, when humans can't make sense of something it's God's will. It's a crutch...and a necessary one for humans to get past some terrible things. Although I don't believe in the traditional God, I have used religion as a crutch myself. Not very often, but I have. It makes me feel better about terrible situations. For instance, I've not lost anyone that's close to me in my life, I'm 40. I know that since I have faith in myself that if some like my son, daughter, or wife passed that I would not deal with it well. I have no coping mechanism like religion. Like I said, the need to have a reason why something bad happened, it was God's will. I say s#$t happens and we have to deal with it however we can so that we can move on in life. I'll leave this post for now, I'm sure that it will be cut up pretty badly. Just remember, I have no issues with anyone's religious beliefs, I understand believers. But I've yet to meet someone that can see my point and understand my faith in myself.
AbbasTruth
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/20/2015 9:23:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 4:22:36 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 4:06:08 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 4:02:27 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:59:06 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 6:30:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 7/19/2015 4:51:59 PM, darkside55 wrote:
This is my perspective on the topic about god. Do you agree, disagree, hwy?
People are raised in a certain religion, which means that they accept it, and later in life they don't have te ability (intelect) or proper motivation to question it.
And here is the real reason why people stay religious.
What everybody knows about God? He is good, all-forgiving, all-powerful, all-loving and he can send you to hell (eternal suffering). Every Christian believes that.
The tricky part. How can he be all-loving and all-forgiving and send you to hell. This is obviously a complete contradiction and a christian doesn't think about + and " in the same sentence. WHY? As in 1984 " the doublethinking. And I am ceratin this is in subconscious of every christian. When you are in a conflict with someone that is more powerful than you, you have two options. You can bow/bend the knee or stand tall saying F*** YOU and suffer the consequences. E.g. a person with a gun, a teacher, Hitler, God.
But the fact is that God has unlimited power, which means that there is absolutely no way you can win the fight.
Bend the knee: Christians piont of vue, doublethinking: You subdue to such extent that you start to worship the figure/person. You praise him, telling he is good, do what he wants (10 comendments, praying), even though you know deep inside that he will send you to hell if you don't do so, so he is basically vangeful, but you supress that thought, because the alternative is simply unacceptable " the world is controlled by a maniac that thas unlimted power and there is no way you can win.
In order to stop believing you have to cross the barrier.. And mind is trapped in a loop: what if there is no god. But slightly later, stop thinking about it because God sees everything he knows your thoughts and he can send you to hell. Stop thinking about it. You are back at the begining.
Intermezzo: The only reason people pray is to influence gods will. But if he will do the best for you anyways (he is good) whats the point. Its just a pathetic people's attempt to somehow influence how things go. Selfish. The one who prays s the most is the biggest hypocrit to himself and to others.
F**** YOU point of vue:
You are allmighty unmistakable" But you gave me the power to doubt you. Scenario: God reveals in front of me. What do I do? I show him my fist end extend the middle finger. How do you like me now. What are you going to do?
-forgive me my sins, send me to heaven if you are good, allforgiving, loving " I party hard for eternity
-don't forgive me, send me to hell. ok, but then you are not allforgiving and all loving, which means that everything people belive is a lie. Your little show to do something with your infinite power. But know that you are not unmistakable. You made one mistake " me. Even though I will burn in hell I will have a smile upon my face knowing that I look right through you, through your scheme, and that you have no control over me. We are equal, even though you have unlimited power. I stood up to a more powerful person and I still have my free will and dignity.
But majority of people doesn't care about freedom, free will. They will kneel if there is something there for them. That is just human nature " evolution. Desire to live.
Wheather you belive in god or not says a lot about what kind of a person you are. You can be a conformist or free. No matter against what kind of authority you fight, even if it is the one with unlimited power. Its basically the question what kind of a person you are.
Pepole say what is the purpose then? Why the f*** do you think that there has to be a purpose? You are just a result of the most thermodinamically favorable constitution of atoms in space. And you think you are so important that there had to be some divine creature to create someting like you. You are a result of mutation. We all are. Get the f*** over yourself.

You do not understand Christianity; nor do you understand the gospel; nor do you understand the wrath of God. It is not our free wills that keeps us faith-biased believers of the gospel, but rather God who works in us. Deuteronomy 30:6, the entire book of Romans, and so many other places show that there is no free will to be saved or reject God! Free will doesn't exist anymore, but God's will does, and faith does. The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Belief doesn't just come by mere choice, for with that there is faith.
The gospel isn't some weak, trust issue, which would leave it open and questionable in a way you have responded. Rather, it is a sure rock for them that believe on it. The best part is our salvation doesn't depend on us. We have no say in it, other than we are sinners.
"Human nature" is what makes us worship the things of this world. What we want to worship. I can tell you right now, there has been no love from me to God. Christ said if ye love me ye will keep my commandments. In Christ I have, and I can, but human nature is what drives me back from doing so!! It's what you are in yourself. That's why you don't believe or have faith. It's called living unto self, for self, and in self. And yes, you will be angry, and you will hate God. But it does nothing, and it doesn't matter. Unless God should bring you out from where you are, you will continue to hate Him.

Btw, there's a difference being raised religious and living by faith.

The last time I saw that much concentrated bulls*** was when we were emtying our sewer. At least you could show some respect to intelligent people and keep your fairytale quotation to yourself and answer with what you think.

That is what I think, you moron. The "quote's" author is myself.

And that's not just what I think, but you don't understand about Christianity. You wanted a thought, and I gave you one. You don't like it, whatever.

It is true and I owe you an apology; I forgot I asked for opinoin, but I thought this was going to be an atheistic debate and to avoid any further misunderstandings I am only interested in atheistic responses.

Oh, I apparently didn't know that. My apologies.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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7/21/2015 7:02:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/20/2015 5:36:40 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.

Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two.

That's because there is only two choices. It's called a dichotomy. Either you choose to be with God or you choose to be without him, there are no other options that could possibly exist.

It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will.

He indirectly sends you to hell (which is simply the state of being without God) not because you don't fulfil his will. He sends you because you choose to go.

If he gave us free will he would have to give as at least the third option - to completely disappear (go neither to hell or heaven). For me it's like would you rather be shot in a leg or an arm.

That would also be a form of hell (the second option), in a way, since non-existence is technically a state of being without God. So this eschatological fate (annihilation) could be what is given to those who choose to reject God. Either way, your point doesn't really hurt the position that there are two choices. You're just arguing over what the second option consists of.

If you look upon this problem completely objectively (I know you are not able)

Why do you make this baseless assertion? On what grounds does my post demonstrate a subjective bias?

it looks like he has designed subjects with free will, put them on Earth, set rules (10 commandments), reward and punishment and then pressed START. And from then on peple have been playing this game - winning or losing. And I don't want to play this game.

You may see it like that, so be it. But what it actually is, is that God has created humans as autonomous, rational beings and he has given us a life on this earth in which we can live freely and choose our own destiny. God, respecting our autonomous nature, offers us a choice of what happens to us when we die. We choose by how we live in this life; if we accept God and choose to be with him after we die, then he will respect our decision. Likewise, if we reject God and choose to be apart from him after we die, God will similarly respect our decision.

Then if I may ask, why would you choose to be with him after you die (a personal question to you).

He seems like a good guy :)

At 7/20/2015 5:41:35 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.


How can anyone choose to be without something that is everywhere? That is like choosing to be without space. It is impossible to avoid something that is everywhere. However, feel free to kid yourself that anyone can be separate from something that is everywhere. There is no such separation except in the minds of the deluded and those who are brainwashed with false doctrines.

Omnipresence isn't a necessary characteristic of God. Some people believe it, some don't. I personally believe that God could, as an omnipotent being, create a state where he is not present. He does this to honour the free-will of those who choose to be without him.


God is also in hell according to scripture.
Pslam 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psalms, whilst being spiritual and interesting, are not the word of God. Psalm 139 in particular is written by David, who is praising God. Just because David says God is present in hell, he isn't necessarily right.


Hell is a state of mind in which self deceived and deluded people live. They hide in fantasies and refuse to face reality.
They tell themselves lies and believe their own lies.
darkside55
Posts: 17
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7/21/2015 2:32:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 7:02:44 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 5:36:40 PM, darkside55 wrote:
At 7/20/2015 5:17:59 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 7/20/2015 3:32:55 PM, darkside55 wrote:




I think that it is obvious that your concept of god is built on very shaky fundations, because if he created everything that exists he also must have created hell and set clear rule: if you fulfil my will you will go to heaven (be beside me if you like) otherwise you will go to hell.

You're thinking of hell as some actual place. Whereas the theological understanding of hell is simply the state of being without God. God is justified in creating this state, because if there was no such thing as being without God, then He is forcing us to be with Him. This doesn't respect our free will. Therefore, in order for God to respect our free will, he must make it possible for us to choose to be without him.

Considering this you don't really have a free will if you can only choose between those. You can either choose option one or two.

That's because there is only two choices. It's called a dichotomy. Either you choose to be with God or you choose to be without him, there are no other options that could possibly exist.

It may seem that he doesn't send you to hell directly but anyways he sends you indirectly by not fulfilling his will.

He indirectly sends you to hell (which is simply the state of being without God) not because you don't fulfil his will. He sends you because you choose to go.

If he gave us free will he would have to give as at least the third option - to completely disappear (go neither to hell or heaven). For me it's like would you rather be shot in a leg or an arm.

That would also be a form of hell (the second option), in a way, since non-existence is technically a state of being without God. So this eschatological fate (annihilation) could be what is given to those who choose to reject God. Either way, your point doesn't really hurt the position that there are two choices. You're just arguing over what the second option consists of.

If you look upon this problem completely objectively (I know you are not able)

Why do you make this baseless assertion? On what grounds does my post demonstrate a subjective bias?

it looks like he has designed subjects with free will, put them on Earth, set rules (10 commandments), reward and punishment and then pressed START. And from then on peple have been playing this game - winning or losing. And I don't want to play this game.

You may see it like that, so be it. But what it actually is, is that God has created humans as autonomous, rational beings and he has given us a life on this earth in which we can live freely and choose our own destiny. God, respecting our autonomous nature, offers us a choice of what happens to us when we die. We choose by how we live in this life; if we accept God and choose to be with him after we die, then he will respect our decision. Likewise, if we reject God and choose to be apart from him after we die, God will similarly respect our decision.

Then if I may ask, why would you choose to be with him after you die (a personal question to you).

He seems like a good guy :)

Well, Satan doesn't sound like a bad guy either, if you catch my drift. Could you explain it more in detail (why being with him is so much better than without - to you of course)?
From this point of view I don't see any reason to wish to be with him beside being in a presence of a creator (no happiness, no suffer no nothing).
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
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7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/21/2015 4:09:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....

Yeah but you people believe it, that's what keeps us laughing.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
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7/21/2015 4:15:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 4:09:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....

Yeah but you people believe it, that's what keeps us laughing.

and those that believe the bible keep laughing at those who claim to be atheist and know about the bible but clearly do not...

the opening of this thread being the classic example...
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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7/21/2015 4:18:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 4:15:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/21/2015 4:09:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....

Yeah but you people believe it, that's what keeps us laughing.

and those that believe the bible keep laughing at those who claim to be atheist and know about the bible but clearly do not...

the opening of this thread being the classic example...

The bible is the work of the ruler of this world ie SATAN. How could it be otherwise?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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7/21/2015 4:20:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....

+1
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
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7/21/2015 4:22:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/21/2015 4:18:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2015 4:15:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/21/2015 4:09:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/21/2015 2:47:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
I replied once as a believer and was told the debate was for atheists only but to be honest the thread starts with bull and gets worse....

just assumptions by the person who started it, incorrect assumptions ...

then more bs about god sending people to hell, which is wrong but hey don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

not to mention the irony of God being so bad and is satan actually ok all being decided by people who don't believe in any of it...

so all in all quite hilarious for a debate....

Yeah but you people believe it, that's what keeps us laughing.

and those that believe the bible keep laughing at those who claim to be atheist and know about the bible but clearly do not...

the opening of this thread being the classic example...

The bible is the work of the ruler of this world ie SATAN. How could it be otherwise?

so you believe in satan...