Total Posts:36|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Question For Theists

Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 2:33:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Creation is an illusion.
All things are Energy which cannot be created or destroyed but simply recycles itself.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 6:30:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Combination of ex material and ex deo.

First off I'm not saying material has always existed or saying it hasn't, that wasn't the question so lets just say creation came after God obviously and creation is a combination of material and deo (spirit).

God initialized movement (vibration) with the tones of His "voice" to cause what it wanted in the material. God uses spirit "breath" to bring consciousness into material bodies.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 7:53:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

If it's the choice between creating something from a pre existing something or creating something from nothing I would go with the former.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,942
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 10:53:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Creation from information. Not sure which form that would take.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,942
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:03:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Creatio ex deo,

Why?

Because in the beginning God, Nothing can exist outside of God or independently of God and everything in existence in dependent on God to exist.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?

Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

I dont know why, I sure dont feel I deserved it. But here I stand.
The question. well, I still believe in most of what science tells us about Creation. I dont take my bible literal. I guess in theology they would call me a liberal Christian. or progressive. Whatever. I like science. I believe the Big Bang.So whatever category that id for the original question, that is my personal answer! (I guess it would be "out of nothing?")
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.

thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:22:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~

No, he is not trying to impress or confuse or look smart, they are just the actual terms used to define the message intended, most people who follow theological arguments would be savvy to their meaning.

By the way congrats on being saved dude. :)
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 1:32:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~

I understand how you feel.

Welcome to DDO, by the way! I mainly stick to the science forum. I'm a scientist working mainly in neural cybernetics, but I haven't studied much outside of mathematics, neuroscience, AI, etc.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 2:17:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

A metaphysical creator isn't necessarily a god, RT -- i.e. it's not necessarily a being captured under theological authority, and is not necessarily a moral authority, worthy of moral respect, worship or submission. So I think there's a fourth case missing.

Also, depending on how we define the universe, the question itself may not be reasonable.

For example, if we view the universe as being all the objective information we can ever observe and all we can constructively and reasonably infer from that, the question of what might lie outside that to create it all is by definition an invitation to unconstructive and unreasonable conjecture. :)
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?

Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

Welcome to DDO, August!

Isn't it marvellous how the only religion you found to be true, happened to be the one already dominant in your culture; and how all the spiritual problems you realised you had, happened to be the ones your culture was saying you had all along!

How lucky you are to be born into the only culture that has it right!

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?

Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

Welcome to DDO, August!

Isn't it marvellous how the only religion you found to be true, happened to be the one already dominant in your culture; and how all the spiritual problems you realised you had, happened to be the ones your culture was saying you had all along!

How lucky you are to be born into the only culture that has it right!

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here. I was wondering how long it would take.

you mis-understand my point. Or maybe I did a poor job of explaining it. I never meant to infer my religion is the only right one. In fact, I don't think I ever said Christianity was the dominant one in my life and culture. I was not ever heavy into it, and as I said about all my athiest years.
You'll also note i never claimed Jesus saved me. I said God. I don't think this God is especially only the one of Christians. In dogma, I am what many would call a "liberal" or ecumenical Christian. The closest denomination in America of the Christina ones that is to my own beliefs would be an Ecumenical church--or even the Unitarians.
The price of salvation is not too high. Never said it was. (are you sure you meant to address your post to me? as it seems to put a lot fo words in my mouth I never said?) Ha1

you also give yourself way too much credit for being able to talk me back into being "damned" as you so nicely put it. rather an arrogant claim, if you ask me.

I don't claim to have thei inside scoop on theodicy--how God thinks or what His plan is. All I know is that He grabbed me. And that I was very fortunate. if you knew me before and after you would also be a believer that something quite profound changed in me.
I cant speak of others. remember too that I know all the atheist argument against God and salvation--I used to spout them and bet I can still out-atheist anybody! Ha!
including you, sir.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:17:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:32:32 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~

I understand how you feel.

Welcome to DDO, by the way! I mainly stick to the science forum. I'm a scientist working mainly in neural cybernetics, but I haven't studied much outside of mathematics, neuroscience, AI, etc.

Damn. I dont think I can even pronounce what your major is, so it is safe to say its over my noggin. Ha! I am guessing it has something to do with the "actions" or "energy" that drives our brains? and our nervous system? maybe you put it into math equations--or formulas? trying to "nail it down" like a computer program? sounds fascinating.

Ill look for you on science. I like things explained to me in down to earth terms and it seems like you are like that. I will have many questions.

I notice it seems like there are a lot of atheists around here. This should be interesting. I have already been attacked once for being Born Again. So I think I wont go too into that except maybe on the religion threads! Im pretty liberal in my beliefs though--like I believe in Evolution and the Big Bang. It's just that I think they are signs of God's artistry. I think the atheists and theology peeps would say Im an ID beliefer. Which I would agree too.

See you in the threads my brother.

.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:19:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?


Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

I dont know why, I sure dont feel I deserved it. But here I stand.
The question. well, I still believe in most of what science tells us about Creation. I dont take my bible literal. I guess in theology they would call me a liberal Christian. or progressive. Whatever. I like science. I believe the Big Bang.So whatever category that id for the original question, that is my personal answer! (I guess it would be "out of nothing?")

Can you enlighten us on what exactly made you realize you'd been wrong and how you go saved, to use your own word?
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:21:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 1:22:35 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~


No, he is not trying to impress or confuse or look smart, they are just the actual terms used to define the message intended, most people who follow theological arguments would be savvy to their meaning.

By the way congrats on being saved dude. :)

thank you for both of those thoughts my brother!
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:23:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here.

Actually, I think the first hostile post in this thread was yours, August.

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?

Mine was meant to be friendly, provocative and humorous.

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

See... grinning smiley face and everything.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:36:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:23:33 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here.

Actually, I think the first hostile post in this thread was yours, August.

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?

Mine was meant to be friendly, provocative and humorous.

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

See... grinning smiley face and everything.

This must be that famed war on religion I have heard so much about.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:38:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:19:30 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?


Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

I dont know why, I sure dont feel I deserved it. But here I stand.
The question. well, I still believe in most of what science tells us about Creation. I dont take my bible literal. I guess in theology they would call me a liberal Christian. or progressive. Whatever. I like science. I believe the Big Bang.So whatever category that id for the original question, that is my personal answer! (I guess it would be "out of nothing?")

Can you enlighten us on what exactly made you realize you'd been wrong and how you go saved, to use your own word?

Well I won't go too deep into it since from my experience I know full well that most people's "testimonies" on their God Experience, or their Getting Saved tends to bore others. Especially non-believers. But suffice to say I was in a miserable state; suicidal; gun in hand, ready to end it all. In a crummy motel room in downtown San Jose, CA.

I had left my wife about a week before. I had lost a business I had--a CrossFit Box i co-owned--from my own recklessness and sinful behavior. (hookers, drugs, all that cliche stuff! Ha!) For some reason out of dsperation I picked up a bible. Part of my story here is it was given to me about an hour earier by a guy I never saw befoe or after downstairs outside my motel. I wont go into how he looked because it too is too clicjhe on how a human angel (I know!) would look. (but he did!)

He goes..."Take this...and do it fast. Youy look like you need it!) (I reaaly did not look too bad. I am well-groomed and fit and was dressed in prssed jeans and a sports coat).

So I am upstairs, I had a couple shots of chilled vodka (only two! I was not drunk!) and I loaded up the Taurus .38. I opened the bible at random and came to the part where, when jesus finally expires on the cross the "temple curtain tore in two." (I know this is a metaphor, btw, more on that later.)
So i re-read it over and over. Weird, how it struck me. Obsessed me. I had read it before and considered it just another fabrication by a gospel writer. (I think it was Mark).
My heart-rate speeded-up. I get a ringing in my ears. The room gets bright like a dimmer switch is rotated ion but the light is orange.
Now the good part..the curtain to my window, well, splits. like a laser was cutting it from top to bottom. I actually held it in my hand to try and figure out where the light-laser was coming from but it would just pass through my hand with no pain. I even smelled smoke. And the curtain DID smoke. My smoke alarm in the room went off!

I look outside and that bible guy waves at me ans walks away. I sit in my bed. The curtain is now pure bright orange light, but in two pieces. And the bible is open to that page on the bed and there is a trace--a path of light form the curtain to the page and it lit it up. So I go to the bathroom to splash water on my face and to throw some on the curtain! Ha! buyt when I come to, t everything is normal, except that curtain is torn int two, still. Wit the edges burnt/
I was overcome with a feeling of total elation and calm. Everything made sense. My state of being and how to get out og my misery. Wellm, it was gone. it was a narcotic feeling. A state of arousal. Peace with the world. Again, yeah, this all sounds cluiche but Im explaining to the best I can.

I sudden became very tired. Went to sleep and slept for a good 10 hours. When I got up the same feeling of elation was there.Total rejuventaion. I had an insatiable yearning to know God better and read the Word aas often as I could. Which I still do. I got back on my feet within a week. Got my business back, everything. (but I did get divorced).

The motel manager accused my of burning the curtain and I had to par for it!

Thank you for the opporutunity to tell you my Story, brother!
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 3:41:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:23:33 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here.

Actually, I think the first hostile post in this thread was yours, August.

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?

Mine was meant to be friendly, provocative and humorous.

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

See... grinning smiley face and everything.

OK..I apologize if you meant no sarcasm like you say. (I still have my doubts, as I think you under-estimate my intellect, just because I have been Saved. But so be it.

How was my post hostile? How is only stating opinion hostile? tell me since it seems like you are so much smarter than me, what with your gandiloquent phrasing and all. Ha!

thanks, Drab.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 4:04:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:38:52 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:19:30 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?


Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

I dont know why, I sure dont feel I deserved it. But here I stand.
The question. well, I still believe in most of what science tells us about Creation. I dont take my bible literal. I guess in theology they would call me a liberal Christian. or progressive. Whatever. I like science. I believe the Big Bang.So whatever category that id for the original question, that is my personal answer! (I guess it would be "out of nothing?")

Can you enlighten us on what exactly made you realize you'd been wrong and how you go saved, to use your own word?


Well I won't go too deep into it since from my experience I know full well that most people's "testimonies" on their God Experience, or their Getting Saved tends to bore others. Especially non-believers. But suffice to say I was in a miserable state; suicidal; gun in hand, ready to end it all. In a crummy motel room in downtown San Jose, CA.

I had left my wife about a week before. I had lost a business I had--a CrossFit Box i co-owned--from my own recklessness and sinful behavior. (hookers, drugs, all that cliche stuff! Ha!) For some reason out of dsperation I picked up a bible. Part of my story here is it was given to me about an hour earier by a guy I never saw befoe or after downstairs outside my motel. I wont go into how he looked because it too is too clicjhe on how a human angel (I know!) would look. (but he did!)

He goes..."Take this...and do it fast. Youy look like you need it!) (I reaaly did not look too bad. I am well-groomed and fit and was dressed in prssed jeans and a sports coat).

So I am upstairs, I had a couple shots of chilled vodka (only two! I was not drunk!) and I loaded up the Taurus .38. I opened the bible at random and came to the part where, when jesus finally expires on the cross the "temple curtain tore in two." (I know this is a metaphor, btw, more on that later.)
So i re-read it over and over. Weird, how it struck me. Obsessed me. I had read it before and considered it just another fabrication by a gospel writer. (I think it was Mark).
My heart-rate speeded-up. I get a ringing in my ears. The room gets bright like a dimmer switch is rotated ion but the light is orange.
Now the good part..the curtain to my window, well, splits. like a laser was cutting it from top to bottom. I actually held it in my hand to try and figure out where the light-laser was coming from but it would just pass through my hand with no pain. I even smelled smoke. And the curtain DID smoke. My smoke alarm in the room went off!

I look outside and that bible guy waves at me ans walks away. I sit in my bed. The curtain is now pure bright orange light, but in two pieces. And the bible is open to that page on the bed and there is a trace--a path of light form the curtain to the page and it lit it up. So I go to the bathroom to splash water on my face and to throw some on the curtain! Ha! buyt when I come to, t everything is normal, except that curtain is torn int two, still. Wit the edges burnt/
I was overcome with a feeling of total elation and calm. Everything made sense. My state of being and how to get out og my misery. Wellm, it was gone. it was a narcotic feeling. A state of arousal. Peace with the world. Again, yeah, this all sounds cluiche but Im explaining to the best I can.

I sudden became very tired. Went to sleep and slept for a good 10 hours. When I got up the same feeling of elation was there.Total rejuventaion. I had an insatiable yearning to know God better and read the Word aas often as I could. Which I still do. I got back on my feet within a week. Got my business back, everything. (but I did get divorced).

The motel manager accused my of burning the curtain and I had to par for it!

Thank you for the opporutunity to tell you my Story, brother!

Interesting, but forgive me if I am skeptical. It sounds like an hallucination and I'd have to see the curtain for myself. In any event, you have the right to believe as you do,

I do wish you'd not disparage all atheists even obliquely ("after being a hostile atheist for most of my life" for example). I'm not hostile unless someone tries to tell me what I 'really know' or 'really think' or that I'm foolish for not believing as they do. I don't drink, never have, but I've been probably as low or perhaps lower than you but I've never considered suicide. I picked myself up after a long stretch in prison, got my life together and got some education. Now I am living well with my wife and sons and our puppies and no god or gods was responsible, either for what put me in that place or what pulled me out. I don't believe there is a god except in the minds of believers. I believe you hit bottom and bounced and are rebounding for whatever purpose. The strength for that resides within you, it is not accomplished from outside of you.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 4:10:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 4:04:55 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:38:52 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:19:30 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:05:35 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:00:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

It's pretty commonly used when discussing philosophy so experienced users hardly think twice about using such terms. I remember being confused when I saw that sort of terminology at first too but quickly caught on. Personally I stay away from using these terms for this very reason although I understand them.

How did God "create"? Creation from material, creation from nothing, or creation from God's being?


Thank you, Ben.

Well, after being a hostile atheist for most of my life I was recently saved. (yeah..one of those guys!). I love science, but it got to the point even a reckless atheist like me who basically hated the idea of God and religion couldnt any longer ignore the Grace he threw down on me. Ha!

I dont know why, I sure dont feel I deserved it. But here I stand.
The question. well, I still believe in most of what science tells us about Creation. I dont take my bible literal. I guess in theology they would call me a liberal Christian. or progressive. Whatever. I like science. I believe the Big Bang.So whatever category that id for the original question, that is my personal answer! (I guess it would be "out of nothing?")

Can you enlighten us on what exactly made you realize you'd been wrong and how you go saved, to use your own word?


Well I won't go too deep into it since from my experience I know full well that most people's "testimonies" on their God Experience, or their Getting Saved tends to bore others. Especially non-believers. But suffice to say I was in a miserable state; suicidal; gun in hand, ready to end it all. In a crummy motel room in downtown San Jose, CA.

I had left my wife about a week before. I had lost a business I had--a CrossFit Box i co-owned--from my own recklessness and sinful behavior. (hookers, drugs, all that cliche stuff! Ha!) For some reason out of dsperation I picked up a bible. Part of my story here is it was given to me about an hour earier by a guy I never saw befoe or after downstairs outside my motel. I wont go into how he looked because it too is too clicjhe on how a human angel (I know!) would look. (but he did!)

He goes..."Take this...and do it fast. Youy look like you need it!) (I reaaly did not look too bad. I am well-groomed and fit and was dressed in prssed jeans and a sports coat).

So I am upstairs, I had a couple shots of chilled vodka (only two! I was not drunk!) and I loaded up the Taurus .38. I opened the bible at random and came to the part where, when jesus finally expires on the cross the "temple curtain tore in two." (I know this is a metaphor, btw, more on that later.)
So i re-read it over and over. Weird, how it struck me. Obsessed me. I had read it before and considered it just another fabrication by a gospel writer. (I think it was Mark).
My heart-rate speeded-up. I get a ringing in my ears. The room gets bright like a dimmer switch is rotated ion but the light is orange.
Now the good part..the curtain to my window, well, splits. like a laser was cutting it from top to bottom. I actually held it in my hand to try and figure out where the light-laser was coming from but it would just pass through my hand with no pain. I even smelled smoke. And the curtain DID smoke. My smoke alarm in the room went off!

I look outside and that bible guy waves at me ans walks away. I sit in my bed. The curtain is now pure bright orange light, but in two pieces. And the bible is open to that page on the bed and there is a trace--a path of light form the curtain to the page and it lit it up. So I go to the bathroom to splash water on my face and to throw some on the curtain! Ha! buyt when I come to, t everything is normal, except that curtain is torn int two, still. Wit the edges burnt/
I was overcome with a feeling of total elation and calm. Everything made sense. My state of being and how to get out og my misery. Wellm, it was gone. it was a narcotic feeling. A state of arousal. Peace with the world. Again, yeah, this all sounds cluiche but Im explaining to the best I can.

I sudden became very tired. Went to sleep and slept for a good 10 hours. When I got up the same feeling of elation was there.Total rejuventaion. I had an insatiable yearning to know God better and read the Word aas often as I could. Which I still do. I got back on my feet within a week. Got my business back, everything. (but I did get divorced).

The motel manager accused my of burning the curtain and I had to par for it!

Thank you for the opporutunity to tell you my Story, brother!

Interesting, but forgive me if I am skeptical. It sounds like an hallucination and I'd have to see the curtain for myself. In any event, you have the right to believe as you do,

I do wish you'd not disparage all atheists even obliquely ("after being a hostile atheist for most of my life" for example). I'm not hostile unless someone tries to tell me what I 'really know' or 'really think' or that I'm foolish for not believing as they do. I don't drink, never have, but I've been probably as low or perhaps lower than you but I've never considered suicide. I picked myself up after a long stretch in prison, got my life together and got some education. Now I am living well with my wife and sons and our puppies and no god or gods was responsible, either for what put me in that place or what pulled me out. I don't believe there is a god except in the minds of believers. I believe you hit bottom and bounced and are rebounding for whatever purpose. The strength for that resides within you, it is not accomplished from outside of you.

Oh no...didnt mean to say all atheists are hostile. Just that I was. I know some very good atheist people. My girlfriend for example!

Congrats on pulling yourself up by your boot straps and getting your life together; sounds like you have a fine one now! Very very cool. You are obviously a strong man, probably more than I, since I really believe I would have killed myself in that crappy little motel room last Spring.

yeah, brother, a lot of people can live good lives and help themselves without needing God. We see it all the time. I think God chooses who He needs to "call on" and who not.

And, yeah, no offense taken about you thinking my God Experience was a hallucination. I mean--it was not--but I would probably think the same thing if some born again guy told me that story when I was an Atheist!
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 4:21:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:41:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:23:33 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here.

Actually, I think the first hostile post in this thread was yours, August.

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?

Mine was meant to be friendly, provocative and humorous.

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

See... grinning smiley face and everything.

OK..I apologize if you meant no sarcasm like you say. (I still have my doubts, as I think you under-estimate my intellect, just because I have been Saved. But so be it.

You're right, August, that I think less of your critical thought and moral discernment because you believe you've been saved. That's not something I can or shall conceal from you. For all that I'm genuinely glad that you're happier in your new-found faith, I'm also sincerely concerned that you may have stunted yourself intellectually and (if an atheist may use the word) spiritually.

But so what?

My opposition isn't the same as aggression or hate directed toward you; and being misguided doesn't mean being unworthy of respect.

And regardless, opposing a viewpoint shouldn't stop me joking with you at my own expense. :)

How was my post hostile? How is only stating opinion hostile? tell me since it seems like you are so much smarter than me, what with your gandiloquent phrasing and all. Ha!

If you struggle to admit your own aggression, but are quick to construe and take offense at aggression in others, then that might take a while to unpick. If so, this thread is not the place.

(Also: anyone using the word 'grandiloquent' is the black cookware calling the other black cookware black. :D)
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 4:40:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 3:17:29 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:32:32 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~

I understand how you feel.

Welcome to DDO, by the way! I mainly stick to the science forum. I'm a scientist working mainly in neural cybernetics, but I haven't studied much outside of mathematics, neuroscience, AI, etc.

Damn. I dont think I can even pronounce what your major is, so it is safe to say its over my noggin. Ha! I am guessing it has something to do with the "actions" or "energy" that drives our brains? and our nervous system? maybe you put it into math equations--or formulas? trying to "nail it down" like a computer program? sounds fascinating.

I don't think that means it's beyond you. It only means that you're unfamiliar with the field. Part of it is what you described, and there are two real-world applications I work in. One is taking those models of neural computations and using them as sort of 'modular artificial intelligences' to solve complex computational problems. The other is designing and building brain-computer interface (which typically uses those 'modular artificial intelligences to solve the problem of translating patterns of brain activity to electronic commands).

Ill look for you on science. I like things explained to me in down to earth terms and it seems like you are like that. I will have many questions.

I can try. Because it's so interdisciplinary and I apply my methods to several different fields, I typically have to explain my work to people with no background in mathematics or with little background in the same fields of science I work in. So I guess you could say I have some practice putting it in relatively simple terms.

I notice it seems like there are a lot of atheists around here. This should be interesting. I have already been attacked once for being Born Again. So I think I wont go too into that except maybe on the religion threads! Im pretty liberal in my beliefs though--like I believe in Evolution and the Big Bang. It's just that I think they are signs of God's artistry. I think the atheists and theology peeps would say Im an ID beliefer. Which I would agree too.

Well, I would hope people are more willing to discuss rather than attack you for a label you apply to yourself, but that's how it is sometimes. I don't mind talking about religious beliefs, but I'm probably an apatheist if anything. Also, I was raised without religion in a non-religious environment, so I don't think I have much to add to religious discussion other than my interest in how and why people come to religious beliefs and how and why they are maintained.

See you in the threads my brother.

All the best.

.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 5:51:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 4:40:56 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:17:29 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:32:32 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:17:11 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 1:10:57 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:21:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?
I'm new around here...is this the sort of faux-intellectualism i'm going to be running into? lol.

I'm not directing this at the OP, but in my opinion, yes.


thank you~~~~I'll probably avoid those posts in the future. I dont like that sort of talk. I cant explain it, something about it annoys me! Ha! Maybe because it reminds me of a friend I played baseball with who used to go around saying Latin phrases all the time to impress people. didn;'t work on us--we just thought he was a nerd.
My writing skills arent the best as you can see. Im new here. I like that ddo has science forums AND religion. I was an atheist forever and recently was saved. (yeah--I know, one of THOSE guys!) But the point came I couldnt resist God's screaming at me anymore.
Im still sketpical on most things called supernatural. Im not a young earth guy either. I like the idea of evolution and think it just shows us God's handiwork.
I plan to visit the science forums and contribute if it is not too far over my head. I hope i see you there. If you are a science person i might be asking some questions. Just lurk on that forum for awhile until I am comfortable enough to jump in~~~~

I understand how you feel.

Welcome to DDO, by the way! I mainly stick to the science forum. I'm a scientist working mainly in neural cybernetics, but I haven't studied much outside of mathematics, neuroscience, AI, etc.

Damn. I dont think I can even pronounce what your major is, so it is safe to say its over my noggin. Ha! I am guessing it has something to do with the "actions" or "energy" that drives our brains? and our nervous system? maybe you put it into math equations--or formulas? trying to "nail it down" like a computer program? sounds fascinating.

I don't think that means it's beyond you. It only means that you're unfamiliar with the field. Part of it is what you described, and there are two real-world applications I work in. One is taking those models of neural computations and using them as sort of 'modular artificial intelligences' to solve complex computational problems. The other is designing and building brain-computer interface (which typically uses those 'modular artificial intelligences to solve the problem of translating patterns of brain activity to electronic commands).

Ill look for you on science. I like things explained to me in down to earth terms and it seems like you are like that. I will have many questions.

I can try. Because it's so interdisciplinary and I apply my methods to several different fields, I typically have to explain my work to people with no background in mathematics or with little background in the same fields of science I work in. So I guess you could say I have some practice putting it in relatively simple terms.

I notice it seems like there are a lot of atheists around here. This should be interesting. I have already been attacked once for being Born Again. So I think I wont go too into that except maybe on the religion threads! Im pretty liberal in my beliefs though--like I believe in Evolution and the Big Bang. It's just that I think they are signs of God's artistry. I think the atheists and theology peeps would say Im an ID beliefer. Which I would agree too.

Well, I would hope people are more willing to discuss rather than attack you for a label you apply to yourself, but that's how it is sometimes. I don't mind talking about religious beliefs, but I'm probably an apatheist if anything. Also, I was raised without religion in a non-religious environment, so I don't think I have much to add to religious discussion other than my interest in how and why people come to religious beliefs and how and why they are maintained.

See you in the threads my brother.

All the best.

.

Man...you sound like one smart brainiac! Your timing for choosing your discipline I think couldn't be better. Because if I'm not mistaken most of hte computer geeks out there agree that we have almost gone as far as we can go with the current computer...hmm..what word? "State?" Or maybe the solid state electronics? How much smaller and faster can they go with just the already amazingly small chips and circuits?
So the next logical stage would be to "borrow" some of the ways the brain works to make them even faster. Is what you are doing along lines of the term "fuzzy logic" that I read about? Anyway...good luck with it. If you figure out a way to interface brain/computer you could do for what Jobs/Gates did with GUI! Ground-floor of new technology.

You are kind, but, still, beyond me. i could only talk about it with you or ask questions in vague terms. My major in college was Sports & Exercise Science (glorified P.E.) so my math skills are mediocre at best. furthest I went was Algebra II. Calc and trig I am clueless in, except I know that Trig deals with traingles. Ha!

Much obliged once again U.R....
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 6:01:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 12:49:07 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Creatio ex materia, creatio ex nihilo, or creatio ex deo? What form of creation makes the most sense to you and why (atheist opinions welcome as well)?

Is empty flat space material or nothing?
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/22/2015 6:01:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/22/2015 4:21:57 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:41:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:23:33 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/22/2015 3:09:34 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/22/2015 2:24:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

Ahhh. ok. My first hostile post here.

Actually, I think the first hostile post in this thread was yours, August.

Are you trying to impress us with your Latin?

Mine was meant to be friendly, provocative and humorous.

If you ever feel that the price of eternal salvation is too high -- your moral and intellectual integrity for instance... come chat. I'll happily see you wasted and damned again! :D

See... grinning smiley face and everything.

OK..I apologize if you meant no sarcasm like you say. (I still have my doubts, as I think you under-estimate my intellect, just because I have been Saved. But so be it.

You're right, August, that I think less of your critical thought and moral discernment because you believe you've been saved. That's not something I can or shall conceal from you. For all that I'm genuinely glad that you're happier in your new-found faith, I'm also sincerely concerned that you may have stunted yourself intellectually and (if an atheist may use the word) spiritually.

But so what?

My opposition isn't the same as aggression or hate directed toward you; and being misguided doesn't mean being unworthy of respect.

And regardless, opposing a viewpoint shouldn't stop me joking with you at my own expense. :)

How was my post hostile? How is only stating opinion hostile? tell me since it seems like you are so much smarter than me, what with your gandiloquent phrasing and all. Ha!

If you struggle to admit your own aggression, but are quick to construe and take offense at aggression in others, then that might take a while to unpick. If so, this thread is not the place.

(Also: anyone using the word 'grandiloquent' is the black cookware calling the other black cookware black. :D)

OK..I respect your opinion again, having once been an Atheist. I probably have said things similar to you in the past to Believers. I try not to be stunted intellectual wise. I still read as much science as I can. I believe in more science theoires that probably most Chrisitans, mauybe. Like Evolutuion. Its just that I think God had his paws in it. He was sort of like the software and evolution--the genetics and the species improving were the hardware. I reckon that makes me an ID believer as you would say.

I have always had a question for atheist of evolution. One that i couldn't answer when I was one. If the mutations were just mutations hw did they know when to come along? Once the ball is rolling I dont see a problem, but the first mutaton? Like they say we used to not always have eyes. at first it was just a light sensitive patch. Or cell. A piece of skin. Well, how? Quite the coincidence, huh? that a light sensitive patch would just appear. God's guidence is where it comes in, right there, for me. The first mutation--which is what you call it but I dont. THEN He lets the process continue unfettered by Him.

and dont worry I have a thick skin--like I said I have been in your state of mind for years. I know what you think of me and my claims of divine Grace. It's cool. Its like not getting mad at a deaf person who cant appreciate and be moved by a Paganini violin concerto. (I play violin so I used that simile.)

Best fishes.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!