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Mirza
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8/23/2010 11:06:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Since this has been brought up in another thread, I kindly ask Christians to give one argument for someone to convert to Christianity, which they believe is the best, excluding belief in God (e.g. why), since we talk about choosing that religion among all others.

I have made a similar thread before without many responses. I await some respectful and interesting discussions.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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8/23/2010 11:11:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:06:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
Since this has been brought up in another thread, I kindly ask Christians to give one argument for someone to convert to Christianity, which they believe is the best, excluding belief in God (e.g. why), since we talk about choosing that religion among all others.

I have made a similar thread before without many responses. I await some respectful and interesting discussions.

I think christians should be anti-theist. they apparently believe if you are ignorant you can still go to heaven but the more you know the less likely you can go. I think they should stop trying to spread the word of God bury their bibles and instead of teach religion teach a way of living your life that adopts most christian beliefs without teaching anything religious at all. By spreading God's word they are sending more soul's to hell.

But let me try to answer it as a christian would.

Christianity is the only one true religion, to believe anything else is to believe in Satan's teachings, to believe in Satan's teachings you doom yourself to Hell. Christianity is the only religion that offers salvation, and love. (I got a PM telling me what makes christianity so special one sec and I'll c/p it to this thread)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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8/23/2010 11:12:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
""I don't believe in God cause there is no real reason to either way. I don't see any difference in modern religion then in greek mythology. Wanna get me to join your religion, sho[w] me how its special, unique, different."

if your above statement is still how you feel, I can 'sho[w] you how its different' if you like.

in Christianity there is an actual solution for the problem of sin. in belief in gods like Zeus their only options was to sacrifice so that for the time the gods would not smite them. in Jewish belief they simply have available to cover the stain of their transgressions in the sight of the lord as well. some beliefs would push for earning their salvation by your good actions, but even so something must be done for the past sins already committed.
How can justice ever be found for all the transgressions ever made, must they be pardoned and simply allowed to get away with it because no one can make that payment to erase a past sin? if a judge is told by the defendant that he has changed his ways since he robbed that bank he has just been caught for, even helped society in some good way, the judge still needs to give him a penalty for the crime he did.

though no on can fathomably pay what theologically must be deserved as payment for sins already committed, god sent his only son (in my christian faith) to pay that penalty.

Now good work sounds like it should be necessary for salvation to be just, but this is not strictly about salvation, other faiths have salvation, this what is unique to Christianity, redemption.

So that's why mine is different than others. Redemption."
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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8/23/2010 11:17:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:14:48 AM, Mirza wrote:
The argument above is weak and can easily be refuted, and since you are not a Christian, I will skip.

Lol thanks. I just pretty much ignored it, but it was given to me by a christian.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 11:22:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:17:28 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:14:48 AM, Mirza wrote:
The argument above is weak and can easily be refuted, and since you are not a Christian, I will skip.

Lol thanks. I just pretty much ignored it, but it was given to me by a christian.
I respect Christianity and will not attack it fully, but refute arguments presented for it.

I await arguments.

PS: I ask for one argument that you think is best/among the best, so please respect this. Do not come with 10 arguments. Various people will come with theirs so it is the same thing in theory.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/23/2010 11:24:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here's the thing that is hard for people to get. Faith doesn't come in the form of an argument, and it generally doesn't leave as a result of an argument, not true deep faith. If anyone would know this it would be you. So why would someone want Christianity, choose Christianity? It would generally depend on the person, and the particular branch of Christianity, but in general why choose Christ as a savior and believe that he is the son of God? Sometimes it's redemption, sometimes its a spiritual thirst that is filled by the teachings of Christ. Many people have a deep spiritual need that goes unfulfilled until they find Christianity. Sometimes it's the Christian community that welcomes them. There are many reasons, and most would depend on the individual.
Mirza
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8/23/2010 11:27:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:24:40 AM, innomen wrote:
Here's the thing that is hard for people to get. Faith doesn't come in the form of an argument, and it generally doesn't leave as a result of an argument, not true deep faith. If anyone would know this it would be you. So why would someone want Christianity, choose Christianity? It would generally depend on the person, and the particular branch of Christianity, but in general why choose Christ as a savior and believe that he is the son of God? Sometimes it's redemption, sometimes its a spiritual thirst that is filled by the teachings of Christ. Many people have a deep spiritual need that goes unfulfilled until they find Christianity. Sometimes it's the Christian community that welcomes them. There are many reasons, and most would depend on the individual.
Yes, but I am not asking for a reason that they are Christians. I ask why would someone else convert to Christianity, i.e. what are the good arguments. Personal relationship with God is a different thing, and I understand it. But I need arguments in favor of Christianity for someone who has no experience with it personally.
innomen
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8/23/2010 11:32:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:27:02 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:24:40 AM, innomen wrote:
Here's the thing that is hard for people to get. Faith doesn't come in the form of an argument, and it generally doesn't leave as a result of an argument, not true deep faith. If anyone would know this it would be you. So why would someone want Christianity, choose Christianity? It would generally depend on the person, and the particular branch of Christianity, but in general why choose Christ as a savior and believe that he is the son of God? Sometimes it's redemption, sometimes its a spiritual thirst that is filled by the teachings of Christ. Many people have a deep spiritual need that goes unfulfilled until they find Christianity. Sometimes it's the Christian community that welcomes them. There are many reasons, and most would depend on the individual.
Yes, but I am not asking for a reason that they are Christians. I ask why would someone else convert to Christianity, i.e. what are the good arguments. Personal relationship with God is a different thing, and I understand it. But I need arguments in favor of Christianity for someone who has no experience with it personally.

Why is personal relationship with God a different thing? I gave you a few different reasons, and said that there were many reasons, and they would often depend on the individual. The element of love that exists in Christianity seems to be less apparent in Islam, or other religions as well.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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8/23/2010 11:33:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:27:02 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:24:40 AM, innomen wrote:
Here's the thing that is hard for people to get. Faith doesn't come in the form of an argument, and it generally doesn't leave as a result of an argument, not true deep faith. If anyone would know this it would be you. So why would someone want Christianity, choose Christianity? It would generally depend on the person, and the particular branch of Christianity, but in general why choose Christ as a savior and believe that he is the son of God? Sometimes it's redemption, sometimes its a spiritual thirst that is filled by the teachings of Christ. Many people have a deep spiritual need that goes unfulfilled until they find Christianity. Sometimes it's the Christian community that welcomes them. There are many reasons, and most would depend on the individual.
Yes, but I am not asking for a reason that they are Christians. I ask why would someone else convert to Christianity, i.e. what are the good arguments. Personal relationship with God is a different thing, and I understand it. But I need arguments in favor of Christianity for someone who has no experience with it personally.

There's the bonus that if you rape and kill 500 children and then decide to believe in God and accept Jesus you will go to heaven.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 11:35:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:32:33 AM, innomen wrote:
Why is personal relationship with God a different thing? I gave you a few different reasons, and said that there were many reasons, and they would often depend on the individual. The element of love that exists in Christianity seems to be less apparent in Islam, or other religions as well.
Assume that two people want Person Z to convert to their religion. One is a Christian, other is a Hindu. Now, Person Z does believe in God and just wants a religion and be safe. Why choose Christianity? Stronger love toward God? Hindu can argue same way. Why Christianity? This is my question.
lovelife
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8/23/2010 11:40:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:35:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:32:33 AM, innomen wrote:
Why is personal relationship with God a different thing? I gave you a few different reasons, and said that there were many reasons, and they would often depend on the individual. The element of love that exists in Christianity seems to be less apparent in Islam, or other religions as well.
Assume that two people want Person Z to convert to their religion. One is a Christian, other is a Hindu. Now, Person Z does believe in God and just wants a religion and be safe. Why choose Christianity? Stronger love toward God? Hindu can argue same way. Why Christianity? This is my question.

Christians let you eat steak. Hindus don't. (and yes I'm making BS arguments, I'd be more willing to go Hindu then Christian)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:35:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:32:33 AM, innomen wrote:
Why is personal relationship with God a different thing? I gave you a few different reasons, and said that there were many reasons, and they would often depend on the individual. The element of love that exists in Christianity seems to be less apparent in Islam, or other religions as well.
Assume that two people want Person Z to convert to their religion. One is a Christian, other is a Hindu. Now, Person Z does believe in God and just wants a religion and be safe. Why choose Christianity? Stronger love toward God? Hindu can argue same way. Why Christianity? This is my question.

Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.
InsertNameHere
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8/23/2010 11:50:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM, innomen wrote:

Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.

See, it was things like this that really touched me when the guy explained. He made the point that the islamic God seems so detached from his creations.
innomen
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8/23/2010 11:52:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:50:27 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM, innomen wrote:

Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.

See, it was things like this that really touched me when the guy explained. He made the point that the islamic God seems so detached from his creations.

I don't hear it in the Islamic God, or even the OT God for that matter but Mirza will be here in a moment to disprove that.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 12:02:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM, innomen wrote:
Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.
First of all, I have used the Bible before to disprove the crucifixion. But we can forget that for the sake of argument.

Now, as Islam describes God, we see Him as the mos generous being possible of existence.

In several verses of the Qur'an, God speaks about doing good deeds. In fact, whoever does not wish for others what he wishes for himself cannot be a true believer. Islam tells this. Furthermore, the Qur'an tells us that our mountains of sins are as small as a handful of snow compared to the forgiveness of God. In the Qur'an, we find various verses speaking of how much ungrateful human beings are, and God still loves them and guides them when they seek Him. God tells us that when we obey our parents, we move closer to Him. He tells us that when we help the poor, the same happens. When we do good deeds, the bad ones erase. Can this get better? There are many such things that the Qur'an teaches. It teaches about the great deeds of Jesus (peace be upon him). It teaches how God has made us with love etc. Islam is surely teaching about perfect love with God. I can guarantee that it does more than any other religion. It calls for remembrance of Him hundreds of times a day. Five prayers, reciting the Qur'an etc., all in order to come close to God. This is beautiful.
EvilLiberal
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8/23/2010 12:07:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:06:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
Since this has been brought up in another thread, I kindly ask Christians to give one argument for someone to convert to Christianity, which they believe is the best, excluding belief in God (e.g. why), since we talk about choosing that religion among all others.

I have made a similar thread before without many responses. I await some respectful and interesting discussions.

Well, for one, let's take an argumentum ad consequantium.

You are a Muslim. What did you think of your fellow believers when they killed over a hundred people for a few drawings? Did you not feel shame? What about when Pakistan made it impossible for their citizens to access many popular cites because of a Facebook group called "Everybody Draw Muhammed Day". Did you not feel sad that religious dogma could be more important than the fundamental rights of an individual, including, but not limited to: The freedom of expression, the freedom of speech, the freedom of a public assembly, the freedom to protest, the freedom of religion, etc.

Sure, there are some crazy far-right christians (mostly in America), but they have rarely, if ever, been violent. If they have been, they clearly have not understood the Bible.

Christianity was during the Dark Ages untolerant, suppressive etc. However, nowadays, Christianity has matured and the message of the Bible is understood almost universally among Christians (since now they can actually read a Bible.) Islam, however, is still in its infancy and reminds me of a more vicious form of the Catholic "Church" during the Dark Ages.

Christianity says, for example, that: "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek. If someone takes your robe, give him your shirt also."

On the other hand, your über-prophet Muhammed: raped countless women, killed tons of innocent people, ordered assassionations, married a 6 year old (and had sex with her when she was 9. A pedophile?), said female circumscision is ok and PROMOTED THE WORSHIP OF PAGAN DEITIES, among many other evils he did. Google "The Satanic verses for more information."

So, if I had to choose would I follow arguably a wicked man or a noble man, I'd take the latter.

"For a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and neither can a bad tree bear good fruit."

And for something else, Jesus as proven to have lived (and died, according to Josephus among others. This would contradict Islam.) I am aware that parts of the text describing Jesus written by Josephus has been modified, but generally speaking it's fairly reasonable to say he existed. However, the question of him doing miracles is a completely different issue. And that's where fact becomes faith.

Please, read the following carefully.

As a follower of Wicca, and as a human being, I believe that there might no such a thing as one true religion. Why? Well, there have probably been millions of religions (large or small) all along human history. The chance of one religion being the only true one from millions is very small.

Blessed be.
lovelife
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8/23/2010 12:08:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:02:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM, innomen wrote:
Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.
First of all, I have used the Bible before to disprove the crucifixion. But we can forget that for the sake of argument.

Now, as Islam describes God, we see Him as the mos generous being possible of existence.

In several verses of the Qur'an, God speaks about doing good deeds. In fact, whoever does not wish for others what he wishes for himself cannot be a true believer. Islam tells this. Furthermore, the Qur'an tells us that our mountains of sins are as small as a handful of snow compared to the forgiveness of God. In the Qur'an, we find various verses speaking of how much ungrateful human beings are, and God still loves them and guides them when they seek Him. God tells us that when we obey our parents, we move closer to Him. He tells us that when we help the poor, the same happens. When we do good deeds, the bad ones erase. Can this get better? There are many such things that the Qur'an teaches. It teaches about the great deeds of Jesus (peace be upon him). It teaches how God has made us with love etc. Islam is surely teaching about perfect love with God. I can guarantee that it does more than any other religion. It calls for remembrance of Him hundreds of times a day. Five prayers, reciting the Qur'an etc., all in order to come close to God. This is beautiful.

Okay let me get this straight, in Islam you start off at 0, the more you sin the more negative you earn, and the more you do in accordance to God's plans the more positive you get?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/23/2010 12:10:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:02:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:46:51 AM, innomen wrote:
Actually i don't think a Hindu can. There is a difference in Christ, there is a deeper connection to the human condition. Christ connected to our sins and walked with the sinners. Christ was more at home with a leper than with the righteous. He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. The suffering that Christ removes is not in the flesh as much as it is in the spirit and He knew the suffering of the spirit. I don't hear that so much in other religions.
First of all, I have used the Bible before to disprove the crucifixion. But we can forget that for the sake of argument.

Now, as Islam describes God, we see Him as the mos generous being possible of existence.

In several verses of the Qur'an, God speaks about doing good deeds. In fact, whoever does not wish for others what he wishes for himself cannot be a true believer. Islam tells this. Furthermore, the Qur'an tells us that our mountains of sins are as small as a handful of snow compared to the forgiveness of God. In the Qur'an, we find various verses speaking of how much ungrateful human beings are, and God still loves them and guides them when they seek Him. God tells us that when we obey our parents, we move closer to Him. He tells us that when we help the poor, the same happens. When we do good deeds, the bad ones erase. Can this get better? There are many such things that the Qur'an teaches. It teaches about the great deeds of Jesus (peace be upon him). It teaches how God has made us with love etc. Islam is surely teaching about perfect love with God. I can guarantee that it does more than any other religion. It calls for remembrance of Him hundreds of times a day. Five prayers, reciting the Qur'an etc., all in order to come close to God. This is beautiful.

Mirza, it's not a contest. Islam seems to fit well for many, but it's a different fit. Islam may have taught it, but Christ lived it. Christ commanded love, i don't know of the Qu'ran commanding love, and not just love, but love thy enemy. There is a different level of consistent love and humility found in the life of Christ, and many of his followers. The entire tone of Christ is so different than that of the Qu'ran and it fits better for many.
lovelife
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8/23/2010 12:16:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:07:19 PM, EvilLiberal wrote:
At 8/23/2010 11:06:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
Since this has been brought up in another thread, I kindly ask Christians to give one argument for someone to convert to Christianity, which they believe is the best, excluding belief in God (e.g. why), since we talk about choosing that religion among all others.

I have made a similar thread before without many responses. I await some respectful and interesting discussions.

Well, for one, let's take an argumentum ad consequantium.

You are a Muslim. What did you think of your fellow believers when they killed over a hundred people for a few drawings? Did you not feel shame? What about when Pakistan made it impossible for their citizens to access many popular cites because of a Facebook group called "Everybody Draw Muhammed Day". Did you not feel sad that religious dogma could be more important than the fundamental rights of an individual, including, but not limited to: The freedom of expression, the freedom of speech, the freedom of a public assembly, the freedom to protest, the freedom of religion, etc.


He doesn't believe in rights, he believes in only being able to legally choose doing good (according to his religion which includes wife beating as good)

Sure, there are some crazy far-right christians (mostly in America), but they have rarely, if ever, been violent. If they have been, they clearly have not understood the Bible.

Christianity was during the Dark Ages untolerant, suppressive etc. However, nowadays, Christianity has matured and the message of the Bible is understood almost universally among Christians (since now they can actually read a Bible.) Islam, however, is still in its infancy and reminds me of a more vicious form of the Catholic "Church" during the Dark Ages.

Christianity says, for example, that: "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek. If someone takes your robe, give him your shirt also."

On the other hand, your über-prophet Muhammed: raped countless women, killed tons of innocent people, ordered assassionations, married a 6 year old (and had sex with her when she was 9. A pedophile?), said female circumscision is ok and PROMOTED THE WORSHIP OF PAGAN DEITIES, among many other evils he did. Google "The Satanic verses for more information."


Female circumscision, that sounds painful. Did he order it? Did he say that males are able to choose if the females got it?

So, if I had to choose would I follow arguably a wicked man or a noble man, I'd take the latter.

"For a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and neither can a bad tree bear good fruit."


lol at that quote.

And for something else, Jesus as proven to have lived (and died, according to Josephus among others. This would contradict Islam.) I am aware that parts of the text describing Jesus written by Josephus has been modified, but generally speaking it's fairly reasonable to say he existed. However, the question of him doing miracles is a completely different issue. And that's where fact becomes faith.


I thought Islam accepted that Jesus existed...

Please, read the following carefully.

As a follower of Wicca, and as a human being, I believe that there might no such a thing as one true religion. Why? Well, there have probably been millions of religions (large or small) all along human history. The chance of one religion being the only true one from millions is very small.


Exactly. (also I would like to learn more about wicca. I started researching a year ago and got in a lot of trouble)

Blessed be.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/23/2010 12:24:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 11:06:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
Since this has been brought up in another thread, I kindly ask Christians to give one argument for someone to convert to Christianity, which they believe is the best, excluding belief in God (e.g. why), since we talk about choosing that religion among all others.

I have made a similar thread before without many responses. I await some respectful and interesting discussions.

-------------><))))>

Facts, faith, feelings, in that order, Jesus died for his sheep, fact, if you have faith in this then you will have feelings (spirit),

If you do not have faith, then you have no reason to bother.

Faith comes by reading and hearing the word, but not everyone is given it. (2 Thess 3:2)

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep". (Not all mankind, but HIS SHEEP)

Jesus told some Pharisees, in John 10:26 and 27: "ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me".

-------------------------------o O----^5 ---
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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8/23/2010 12:25:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
@ innomen

" He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. "

What do mean by that? Could you elaborate some? Thanks
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 12:27:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:07:19 PM, EvilLiberal wrote:
Well, for one, let's take an argumentum ad consequantium.
One argument =/= obeying the rule. Next time, you will be ignored.

You are a Muslim. What did you think of your fellow believers when they killed over a hundred people for a few drawings?
Horrible deeds. They do not represent Islam. What ultimately happened was that they got angry. This is sad. However, the beloved Prophet spoke against this.

"The strong man is not a good wrestler; the strong man is in fact the person who controls himself at the time of anger."

Did you not feel shame?
I am not pleased with it, but my religion does not support it.

What about when Pakistan made it impossible for their citizens to access many popular cites because of a Facebook group called "Everybody Draw Muhammed Day". Did you not feel sad that religious dogma could be more important than the fundamental rights of an individual, including, but not limited to: The freedom of expression, the freedom of speech, the freedom of a public assembly, the freedom to protest, the freedom of religion, etc.
Those things are allowed, some are to an extent only. However, all these arguments are off topic. What are you even talking about? We are talking about Christianity. Nevertheless, Pakistan did it because they feared that Muslims could be mislead and angered. This is a good thing. It was not in normal situation. It was a response to horrible people. There is nothing wrong with this. And Islam =/= Pakistan. If you wish to criticize that nation, go ahead. It does not represent Islam..

Sure, there are some crazy far-right christians (mostly in America), but they have rarely, if ever, been violent. If they have been, they clearly have not understood the Bible.
This is a great lie. Christians have been slaughtering people for centuries. They killed non-Christians all the time, as directly instructed in the OT. They did understand the Bible, especially Deuteronomy.

Christianity was during the Dark Ages untolerant, suppressive etc. However, nowadays, Christianity has matured and the message of the Bible is understood almost universally among Christians (since now they can actually read a Bible.) Islam, however, is still in its infancy and reminds me of a more vicious form of the Catholic "Church" during the Dark Ages.
Big lie. It is the greatest religion today. Of course some of its followers will do dumb things. 1/4 of the world population, no matter what they believe in, will wrong themselves. Islam is not responsible

Christianity says, for example, that: "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek. If someone takes your robe, give him your shirt also."
So does Islam. But if someone comes to slaughter innocent people and spread corruption and ruin belief in God, Islam calls for retaliation. In other words, it calls for peace.

On the other hand, your über-prophet Muhammed
Mind the tongue, please. Show some respect.

raped countless women,
This is also a great lie. He never did it. He ordered capital punishment for rapists and protected women. You can never source your arguments validly because they are totally wrong.

killed tons of innocent people,
Ditto. Like above. Mention any battle where you think this happened. He forbade killing of innocent people. Nowhere in the Qur'an will you see this being mention like in the Bible. Nowhere.

ordered assassionations,
Thanks, let us see if we can justify any of it. Examples, thank you.

married a 6 year old (and had sex with her when she was 9. A pedophile?),
No. It was a cultural norm, nobody opposed it, nobody was harm, there was 100% consensus, it was very important, etc. And find <one> verse of the Bible prohibiting it. Just one.

said female circumscision is ok
Not a law.

and PROMOTED THE WORSHIP OF PAGAN DEITIES, among many other evils he did. Google "The Satanic verses for more information."
This is a horrible lie. I will not Google "Satanic Verses." I know what they are, and they are fabricated lies. I will refute any instantly. What a big lie that he promoted worship of idolatry. Big lie.

So, if I had to choose would I follow arguably a wicked man or a noble man, I'd take the latter.
OK, even through lies?

"For a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and neither can a bad tree bear good fruit."
OK.

And for something else, Jesus as proven to have lived (and died, according to Josephus among others. This would contradict Islam.) I am aware that parts of the text describing Jesus written by Josephus has been modified, but generally speaking it's fairly reasonable to say he existed. However, the question of him doing miracles is a completely different issue. And that's where fact becomes faith.
OK, irrelevant.

Please, read the following carefully.

As a follower of Wicca, and as a human being, I believe that there might no such a thing as one true religion. Why? Well, there have probably been millions of religions (large or small) all along human history. The chance of one religion being the only true one from millions is very small.
A common misconception about the truth of a religion. See my latest debate.

Blessed be.
OK.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 12:31:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:24:34 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
-------------><))))>

Facts, faith, feelings, in that order, Jesus died for his sheep, fact, if you have faith in this then you will have feelings (spirit),

If you do not have faith, then you have no reason to bother.

Faith comes by reading and hearing the word, but not everyone is given it. (2 Thess 3:2)

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep". (Not all mankind, but HIS SHEEP)

Jesus told some Pharisees, in John 10:26 and 27: "ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me".

-------------------------------o O----^5 ---
Thanks, but this is really not helping your case. The more you cite Jesus' word, the more I believe in God.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 12:32:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:10:23 PM, innomen wrote:
Mirza, it's not a contest. Islam seems to fit well for many, but it's a different fit. Islam may have taught it, but Christ lived it. Christ commanded love, i don't know of the Qu'ran commanding love, and not just love, but love thy enemy. There is a different level of consistent love and humility found in the life of Christ, and many of his followers. The entire tone of Christ is so different than that of the Qu'ran and it fits better for many.
It is a contest when people lie about Islam and lead Muslims astray. This is not a good thing. I already said that Islam promotes love, and if you listen to the Qur'an, you will realize that. It does a lot.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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8/23/2010 12:38:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:32:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
It is a contest when people lie about Islam and lead Muslims astray. This is not a good thing. I already said that Islam promotes love, and if you listen to the Qur'an, you will realize that. It does a lot.

Oh no! He's back! -50 collective IQ of DDO! Darn!

Remember, Islam is a backwards religion and when you LIVE Islam it's EVIL! Get it! LIVE backwards is EVIL!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/23/2010 12:38:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:25:32 PM, Denote wrote:
@ innomen

" He touched the darkest parts of the human being and pretty much said that it was okay. "

What do mean by that? Could you elaborate some? Thanks

All of us have a side that is dark and filled with fear, anger, self doubt, shame, we live with experiences that have hurt us or we have hurt others, and Christ taps right into that like no other ever has. In that dark part of who we are Christ provided love, forgiveness and courage. Christ allowed us to rise above this and be more, and not be alone.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/23/2010 12:41:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:38:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Oh no! He's back! -50 collective IQ of DDO! Darn!
Thank you.

Remember, Islam is a backwards religion and when you LIVE Islam it's EVIL! Get it! LIVE backwards is EVIL!
OK. Make a point or goodbye.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/23/2010 12:45:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:38:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:32:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
It is a contest when people lie about Islam and lead Muslims astray. This is not a good thing. I already said that Islam promotes love, and if you listen to the Qur'an, you will realize that. It does a lot.

Oh no! He's back! -50 collective IQ of DDO! Darn!

Mirza has the intelligence to at least try and defend his religion. You don't. So who is deficient?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/23/2010 12:50:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 12:45:57 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:38:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:32:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
It is a contest when people lie about Islam and lead Muslims astray. This is not a good thing. I already said that Islam promotes love, and if you listen to the Qur'an, you will realize that. It does a lot.

Oh no! He's back! -50 collective IQ of DDO! Darn!

Mirza has the intelligence to at least try and defend his religion. You don't. So who is deficient?

Lol. tBoone just got pwned?

P.S- tBoone, I have been exploring Christianity with an open mind.