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Not just catholic priests.

graceofgod
Posts: 5,103
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7/27/2015 3:36:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

the lds had similar problems not too long ago...

abuse happens everywhere, abusers will join groups or places that give them the best or the most access...
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/27/2015 9:04:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

Perhaps it is confirmation bias but most of the child predators I see caught are either from a religious group or a school. I guess it makes sense that they would tend to cluster where children are gathered under a mantle of authority.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 9:33:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:37:45 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Another nail in the coffin of the ghastly JW cult!
So tell me, how are they a cult? I am personally bothered when people say this because almost all my extended family are JWs and my parents used to be before I was born. You could say I have always been close to the organization growing up and have never seen anything remotely cultish. Even my mother and father do not think it is a cult and the used to be in it.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/27/2015 9:42:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 9:33:35 AM, tstor wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:37:45 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Another nail in the coffin of the ghastly JW cult!
So tell me, how are they a cult? I am personally bothered when people say this because almost all my extended family are JWs and my parents used to be before I was born. You could say I have always been close to the organization growing up and have never seen anything remotely cultish. Even my mother and father do not think it is a cult and the used to be in it.

Disfellowship!
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 9:48:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 9:42:56 AM, bulproof wrote:

Disfellowship!
What about it? Kicking people out is now a sign of a cult? Let's examine why i think they are NOT a cult:
-There are over 8 million of them spread out across almost every country of the world.
-They do not live life in the shadows, they work regular jobs with non-JWs and function within society around non-JWs.
-All of their meetings, conventions, and literature are open to the public for viewing.
-Anyone can enter or leave the organization anytime they want, no one is forced to stay.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
talmud
Posts: 154
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7/27/2015 9:51:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au... : :

The 1006 are the one's who get caught. It does not count for those abusers who die with a guilty conscious.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/27/2015 9:57:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 9:48:56 AM, tstor wrote:
At 7/27/2015 9:42:56 AM, bulproof wrote:

Disfellowship!
What about it? Kicking people out is now a sign of a cult? Let's examine why i think they are NOT a cult:
They're family is banned from associating with them. Look up cults.
-There are over 8 million of them spread out across almost every country of the world.
There are more Real Madrid fans than that and they have ever changing gods. Oh wait so do the jehovians.
-They do not live life in the shadows, they work regular jobs with non-JWs and function within society around non-JWs.
They are ordered to not associate with the outside world. WTF are you talking about?
-All of their meetings, conventions, and literature are open to the public for viewing.
They are not open to the public. You wank yourself.
-Anyone can enter or leave the organization anytime they want, no one is forced to stay.
As lomg as when the LEAVE they are prepared to be SHUNNED by their family. Their family is taught to hate them if they leave.
CULT.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 10:17:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 9:57:33 AM, bulproof wrote:

They're family is banned from associating with them. Look up cults.
Oh really? Then why do my parents, siblings, and I still see my JW family? In fact, when my father was going through a divorce we lived with my uncle who was the elder of the congregation in that area. Though I do know what you mean, some people only want to associate with JWs, which is their choice. While the organization advises JWs to not make acquaintance with non-JWs, it is not a requirement. In fact, Islam teaches the same thing, it is better to have a Muslim friend than a non-Muslim friend.

There are more Real Madrid fans than that and they have ever changing gods. Oh wait so do the jehovians.
What does that soccer club have to do with this? The point is that cults are typically centralized into one area or compound, JWs are not.

They are ordered to not associate with the outside world. WTF are you talking about?
Oh really? Show me any publication that orders people to not associate with the outside world. This will take awhile for you to find, as it does not exist.

They are not open to the public. You wank yourself.
Oh really? Walk into your local Kingdom Hall on Sunday and see what happens. They will hand you a Watchtower and give you a seat. More than likely someone will also give you a song book to reference for the parts where they sing.
You can also go to their conventions if you want. It is not limited to JWs only.
You can request for a physical copy of their publications for FREE or go to www.wol.jw.org for the online library.

As lomg as when the LEAVE they are prepared to be SHUNNED by their family. Their family is taught to hate them if they leave.
CULT.
My parents left and still speak with all their JW family members. Like I said, it is up to the individual JWs to choose whether or not to associate with non-JWs. However, it is natural for Catholics to drift towards Catholics, Baptists to drift toward Baptists, etc.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Draconius
Posts: 90
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7/27/2015 2:13:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:37:45 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Another nail in the coffin of the ghastly JW cult!

They are still eons behind the catholic monstrosity, in their violations...
I have no problem with the existence of a "god." It is the behavior of his fan clubs that frightens me to no end...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013. Running at both State and Federal levels. It has brought a vast array of testimony regarding (in particular) the Roman Catholic Church, Scouts Australia, YMCA, Salvation Army, an ashram, and a number of religiously-operated private schools and orphanages. While some secular institutions were also investigated (e.g. hospitals and a national swimming society ), the vast preponderance of complaints submitted were around religious institutions. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/27/2015 3:29:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013. Running at both State and Federal levels. It has brought a vast array of testimony regarding (in particular) the Roman Catholic Church, Scouts Australia, YMCA, Salvation Army, an ashram, and a number of religiously-operated private schools and orphanages. While some secular institutions were also investigated (e.g. hospitals and a national swimming society ), the vast preponderance of complaints submitted were around religious institutions. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]

I suppose you're a better person than I, Ruv, because my heart, while incredibly sad for what the victims suffered, is so deeply offended and angry that I would happily choke the life out of every one of these predators with not a pang of conscience. Child molesters and rapists should have their heads cut off and mounted on poles at the city or town limit with a sign that tells exactly what they did to get them there.
Mike.com
Posts: 91
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7/27/2015 3:35:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And yet the Vatican would rather protect itself rather than the Victims and am still not convinced they would report any offender to the Police.

I thought Pope Francis would have been different. Sadly not, they only elect old men who can be manipulated.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/27/2015 3:56:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:29:37 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013. Running at both State and Federal levels. It has brought a vast array of testimony regarding (in particular) the Roman Catholic Church, Scouts Australia, YMCA, Salvation Army, an ashram, and a number of religiously-operated private schools and orphanages. While some secular institutions were also investigated (e.g. hospitals and a national swimming society ), the vast preponderance of complaints submitted were around religious institutions. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]

I suppose you're a better person than I, Ruv, because my heart, while incredibly sad for what the victims suffered, is so deeply offended and angry that I would happily choke the life out of every one of these predators with not a pang of conscience. Child molesters and rapists should have their heads cut off and mounted on poles at the city or town limit with a sign that tells exactly what they did to get them there.

Institutionalised sexual abuse is a betrayal of children and community trust, DH. But as appalling as it is, I believe the bulk of child sexual abuse occurs in homes rather than institutions.

What these largely religious institutions are most guilty of is using their privilege, trust and religious authority to hide knowledge of these abuses from parents, police and the community and of using their community influence and international reach to thwart community efforts to seek justice and redress.

Those institutions that have done so, have adopted the posture not of the community's servants, but cynical farmers, exploiting community trust, monies and good will for the benefit of their functionaries and elites.

As I mentioned, the volume of evidence has been enormous, the level of abuse has been appalling, the duration of abuse spans decades, and testimony points to the knowing, systematic complicity of an unthinkable number of churches and faith groups across all this time. Many Australian commentators believe that loss of charity status is inevitable for the major churches, and hence probably for all religious groups, and that's certainly my expectation and hope.

As a taxpayer, I don't wish to continue subsidising the moral travesty of corrupt, cynical, parasitic transnational religious corporations. We have far more urgent things to spend money on, far more dedicated and effective organs of public good, and can spend our money far more accountably, transparently and beneficially than religious corporates do.

Not to mention... nobody should trust a church to look after their kids.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/29/2015 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013. Running at both State and Federal levels. It has brought a vast array of testimony regarding (in particular) the Roman Catholic Church, Scouts Australia, YMCA, Salvation Army, an ashram, and a number of religiously-operated private schools and orphanages. While some secular institutions were also investigated (e.g. hospitals and a national swimming society ), the vast preponderance of complaints submitted were around religious institutions. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]

And why did you think I needed to know that? The facts of the royal commission don't change. I am at least as well aware of the Aus legal procedures as you, but thanks anyway.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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7/29/2015 5:22:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 3:56:55 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:29:37 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013. Running at both State and Federal levels. It has brought a vast array of testimony regarding (in particular) the Roman Catholic Church, Scouts Australia, YMCA, Salvation Army, an ashram, and a number of religiously-operated private schools and orphanages. While some secular institutions were also investigated (e.g. hospitals and a national swimming society ), the vast preponderance of complaints submitted were around religious institutions. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]

I suppose you're a better person than I, Ruv, because my heart, while incredibly sad for what the victims suffered, is so deeply offended and angry that I would happily choke the life out of every one of these predators with not a pang of conscience. Child molesters and rapists should have their heads cut off and mounted on poles at the city or town limit with a sign that tells exactly what they did to get them there.

Institutionalised sexual abuse is a betrayal of children and community trust, DH. But as appalling as it is, I believe the bulk of child sexual abuse occurs in homes rather than institutions.

What these largely religious institutions are most guilty of is using their privilege, trust and religious authority to hide knowledge of these abuses from parents, police and the community and of using their community influence and international reach to thwart community efforts to seek justice and redress.

Those institutions that have done so, have adopted the posture not of the community's servants, but cynical farmers, exploiting community trust, monies and good will for the benefit of their functionaries and elites.

As I mentioned, the volume of evidence has been enormous, the level of abuse has been appalling, the duration of abuse spans decades, and testimony points to the knowing, systematic complicity of an unthinkable number of churches and faith groups across all this time. Many Australian commentators believe that loss of charity status is inevitable for the major churches, and hence probably for all religious groups, and that's certainly my expectation and hope.

As a taxpayer, I don't wish to continue subsidising the moral travesty of corrupt, cynical, parasitic transnational religious corporations. We have far more urgent things to spend money on, far more dedicated and effective organs of public good, and can spend our money far more accountably, transparently and beneficially than religious corporates do.

Not to mention... nobody should trust a church to look after their kids.

That, my friend, is the unvarnished truth.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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7/29/2015 5:24:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 10:17:54 AM, tstor wrote:
At 7/27/2015 9:57:33 AM, bulproof wrote:

They're family is banned from associating with them. Look up cults.
Oh really? Then why do my parents, siblings, and I still see my JW family? In fact, when my father was going through a divorce we lived with my uncle who was the elder of the congregation in that area. Though I do know what you mean, some people only want to associate with JWs, which is their choice. While the organization advises JWs to not make acquaintance with non-JWs, it is not a requirement. In fact, Islam teaches the same thing, it is better to have a Muslim friend than a non-Muslim friend.

There are more Real Madrid fans than that and they have ever changing gods. Oh wait so do the jehovians.
What does that soccer club have to do with this? The point is that cults are typically centralized into one area or compound, JWs are not.

They are ordered to not associate with the outside world. WTF are you talking about?
Oh really? Show me any publication that orders people to not associate with the outside world. This will take awhile for you to find, as it does not exist.

They are not open to the public. You wank yourself.
Oh really? Walk into your local Kingdom Hall on Sunday and see what happens. They will hand you a Watchtower and give you a seat. More than likely someone will also give you a song book to reference for the parts where they sing.
You can also go to their conventions if you want. It is not limited to JWs only.
You can request for a physical copy of their publications for FREE or go to www.wol.jw.org for the online library.

As lomg as when the LEAVE they are prepared to be SHUNNED by their family. Their family is taught to hate them if they leave.
CULT.
My parents left and still speak with all their JW family members. Like I said, it is up to the individual JWs to choose whether or not to associate with non-JWs. However, it is natural for Catholics to drift towards Catholics, Baptists to drift toward Baptists, etc.

Talk to the madman. He's disfellowshipped.
Children should be see and not heard
tstor
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7/29/2015 5:35:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:24:27 PM, bulproof wrote:

Talk to the madman. He's disfellowshipped.
Children should be see and not heard
I don't need to talk to anyone. As I have said, almost all of my family are JWs. My parents used to be. My grandfather was disfellowshipped. My mother's uncle was as well. I am fully aware of the JW organization.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/29/2015 9:26:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 4:34:01 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:01:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/27/2015 3:33:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
Here's some interesting news.
http://www.9news.com.au...

For context, Bulproof, in Australia, a Royal Commission is something like a Congressional Hearing, except that it has the power to subpoena evidence, and compel testimony. Usually headed by a judge or respected public administrator, a Royal Commission has more power than a judge normally does, but is restricted to terms of reference.

Supported bipartisanly, a Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse was commenced in Australian in 2013.

A report is scheduled to be handed down in 2017, but meanwhile the testimonies have been heartwrenching. A summary of some testimonies can be found here: [http://www.smh.com.au...]

And why did you think I needed to know that? [...]
The facts of the royal commission don't change.
That's correct, BP. However, I think further context could help members unfamiliar with Australian processes assure themselves of just how serious, meticulous, transparent and far-reaching they are.

That's important in this case, because to judge from the testimony, the findings are likely to be damning of all the big Christian denominations in Australia. As you rightly pointed out, it's not just the RC church, but it's not just JW either. The big Australian denominations -- the Anglicans, Methodists and Uniting Church -- are all implicated. I was surprised you didn't mention that, hence my additional contribution, its need for broader context, and why I addressed it to you.