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Why did Jesus have to die for men's sins?

Mike.com
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7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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7/27/2015 8:50:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

I wonder who forgave Jesus for his 'sins', like vandalising the Temple, and frightening those poor pigs over the cliff?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/27/2015 8:53:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
He didn't.
He died so that no other human would ever die again.
Woops big f*cking failure.
God's MO.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
talmud
Posts: 154
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7/27/2015 9:07:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church. : :

Those added things in the Bible are very confusing such as Jesus Christ the Lord. Check out my thread; http://www.debate.org...
slo1
Posts: 4,308
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7/27/2015 9:18:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Because he is the parent and gives tough love. He loves you even though you are punished to eternal torment. It is your own fault. Isn't that justice when we put a cigarette out on our children's skin daily for the rest of their lives for not obeying us? We wouldn't have to do that if they would just listen and obey.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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7/27/2015 9:22:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why did Jesus have to die for men's sins?

let's "translate" the phrase into grown up in the One 100% Honest & PURE Truth that exposes the deceptions and lies that blind the minds of those that refuse to GROW UP and be responsible for their own personal thoughts and actions.

Why did/does The Honest Truth that many DENY have to die/be rejected/ignored/hated and such so that the "advanced modern societies" of people can try and justify and place the blame and responsibilities for their immature and childish ways and thinking elsewhere?

SIN is simply the DENIAL and rejection of Honest Truth that CAN be known.

Such as we require water to keep on living. Without water we die.

That is a 100% Honest and True FACT that is well known.

Sure that is a easy one.

What about the known odds of games of chance?

It would be a SIN to willfully IGNORE and REJECT the known odds by believing that you were going to BEAT the known odds with some sort of magic, religious concept, scientific theory or other such made up nonsense that the immature in mind, thought and actions try and deceive themselves and any others into believing and following the program.

I realize that what I wrote will bother the immature at thought and actions as they just can't help it when their puppet strings are pulled by a GROWN UP that can play "I got your nose" with the most ADVANCED "debate" that the confused world at large has to offer.

being a PERSONAL god is much better then what those of the many partake in.

why dream about living life in the past or future when you CAN LIVE it in the NOW?

Heaven/Paradise and Hell are just states of mind that are a matter of CHOICE.

The Truth dies every second of everyday as the many go about their make believe and pretend realities daydreaming and looking for a FA$T and EA$Y escape from what bothers their SUPERSTITIOUS minds ans ways on the wide path they travel.

a vague wide path has plenty of room for going in endless circles where you end up with crazy eights, eight balls and squiggly zigzags of desperation and confusion.

Few travel the narrow path that is a bit like auto pilot when you have TRUE & Honest "faith & belief" in a REAL reality where responsible people are accountable for their thoughts and actions.

most want to try and beat the devil and remain like little children so that they can try and NOT be responsible for their own personal thoughts and actions.

deceptions and lies called GOOD RULE$ the world

very few grown up people as it's not a popular concept when it comes to creating JOBS for those that require others or "things" to do their thinking for them so that they can delude themselves and others into believing that they are not at fault and not accountable as IT IS BEYOND their thinking and understanding.

You of the many sure are missing out when you just have your worldly ways of superstitious inspired nonsense.

Mighty Mouse can beat up Superman.

that is my opinion on that reality...
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/27/2015 9:25:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why did Jesus have to die for men's sins?
So that man would never die again, like Adam did.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 4:22:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
To answer the initial question on this thread, we have to know several things. First, Jesus knew exactly what to expect. He was fully aware that he would not live his life in peace. As well, he was aware that his life would be cut short while he was still in his thirties (roughly), and he was fully prepared to face his death.

As many are aware, the Bible attaches crucial importance to the death of Jesus. In fact, the death of Jesus is mentioned directly about 175 times in the Greek scriptures (New Testament). Now, your question was why did Jesus have to suffer and then die? This is an essential question, as we need to know in order for the death of Jesus to have a major effect on our life.

I mentioned that Jesus knew exactly what to expect, so what was that exactly? During the final year of his life, Jesus gave warning to his disciples several times about the suffering and death that was ahead of him. On the way to Jerusalem to observe his final Passover, he told his 12 apostles: "'We are going up to Jerusalem,' he said, 'and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.'" [NIV] (Mark 10:33, 34) Why was Jesus so aware of what the future held for him?

Jesus was obviously acquainted with the many prophecies in the Hebrew scriptures (Old Testament) that foretold how his life would end. (Luke 18:31-33) Consider some of the prophecies about Jesus along with the scriptural references that explain how they were fulfilled:

Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. (Zechariaha 11:12; Matthew 26:14-16)
Struck and spit on. (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67; 27:26, 30)
Impaled. (Psalm 22:16; Mark 15:24, 25)
Reviled while on the stake. (Psalm 22:7, 8; Matthew 27:39-43)
Executed without having any of his bones broken. (Psalm 34:20; John 19:33, 36)

Jesus fulfilled these and many other prophecies. As many would conclude, there is no way that he could have done this on his own. The fulfillment of all these prophecies in Jesus proves that he was sent by none other than God.

Still, this all begs the question of why Jesus had to suffer and die. Perhaps now the answer will become more clear. We must understand that Jesus died in order to settle vital issues.

Jesus was fully aware of the issues of universal importance that were raised back in the garden of Eden. If we recall to this, Adam and Eve chose to disobey God while under the influence of a rebellious spirit creature (serpent). The couple's rebellion called into question the rightness of God"s sovereignty, or way of ruling. Their sin also created the question of whether any humans would prove faithful to God under test. (Genesis 3:1-6; Job 2:1-5)

Jesus gave the most decisive answer possible to both issues: God's sovereignty and human integrity. By his perfect obedience "to death"even death on a cross! (or stake)" (NIV) Jesus upheld God"s sovereignty. (Philippians 2:8) Jesus also proved that a perfect man could maintain perfect obedience to God despite the severest of trials.

We also must understand that Jesus died for mankind. The prophet Isaiah foretold that the promised Messiah's suffering and death would provide atonement for the sins of humans. (Isaiah 53:5, 10) Jesus clearly understood this, and he willingly gave "his life as a ransom for many." [NIV] (Matthew 20:28) His sacrificial death cleared the way for imperfect humans to have a good relationship with God and to be rescued from sin and death. Jesus" death opens up to us the chance to regain what Adam and Eve lost, which is the hope of living forever in perfect conditions on earth. (Revelation 21:3, 4)
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Mike.com
Posts: 91
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7/27/2015 4:42:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You keep posting scripture to justify other scripture and because the Gospels were written many decades by non eye witnesses, then surely you will accept that they all had vested interests in inflating and conveying a story to get converts in. There is NO evidence Jesus said or did anything other than what is in scripture. IF Jesus told his disciples what was going to happen, then why didn't they stop him? Why did they all run away? And why didn't they believe Mary M when she told them he had risen.

The evidence if any, suggests that Jesus told them nothing about his death not even at the last supper and so the church is celebrating a Eucharist that didn't happen and not even mentioned in John's Gospel which surely it would have done as the Catholic Church do nothing else but celebrate it.

Secondly, you have failed to answer my challenge as WHY God condemned the whole human race because of one man's sin. Surely, you can see how UNJUST that is and so why it could never be. So God sends good and decent people to ETERNAL hell for not being a someone who has to believe that Jesus died for their sins?

Sorry, that is just nonsense, although like many, I did too at one time until I really thought about such things.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 5:08:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 4:42:13 PM, Mike.com wrote:

You keep posting scripture to justify other scripture and because the Gospels were written many decades by non eye witnesses, then surely you will accept that they all had vested interests in inflating and conveying a story to get converts in. There is NO evidence Jesus said or did anything other than what is in scripture. IF Jesus told his disciples what was going to happen, then why didn't they stop him? Why did they all run away? And why didn't they believe Mary M when she told them he had risen.
Why would I not use the scripture to understand the scriptures? I mean, I kinda have to use scriptures to grasp a firm understanding of them.
If you are questioning the reliability of the Gospels, then that is a different subject in and of itself. I am open to discuss it if you want to start another thread.

The evidence if any, suggests that Jesus told them nothing about his death not even at the last supper and so the church is celebrating a Eucharist that didn't happen and not even mentioned in John's Gospel which surely it would have done as the Catholic Church do nothing else but celebrate it.
I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say. I gave you evidence to show that Jesus did indeed know of the things to come. And perhaps the other bit of your question is best fit for a Catholic to respond to.

Secondly, you have failed to answer my challenge as WHY God condemned the whole human race because of one man's sin. Surely, you can see how UNJUST that is and so why it could never be. So God sends good and decent people to ETERNAL hell for not being a someone who has to believe that Jesus died for their sins?
Because we are all in relation to Adam. I showed you the clear correlation between Adam and the ransom of Jesus. I see nothing unjust about what God has done. And as much as I hate to use the argument, we really have no business trying to judge God when we are imperfect and lack the knowledge.

You are now making the assumption that God sends people to a hellfire, which is simply not true. There is no eternal hellfire.

Sorry, that is just nonsense, although like many, I did too at one time until I really thought about such things.
You did what? You never said what you did "at one time". I assume you mean you were once a Christian? Well, I was once an atheist. I don't particularly flaunt it around though.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Mike.com
Posts: 91
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7/27/2015 5:22:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Its just my opinion but isn't it best if people don't cut and paste as it makes all the posts too longwinded and have to scroll down to see the replies, although of course some will add they need to do that in replying to a point, But just writing a post does that imo.

See thing is people say we shouldn't judge the actions of God when we say we ALL should not be punished for the sin of one man. I could use the OT to show God saying the sins of the father will not be laden on the children and another text that says they will. Now Isaiah Chap1 has God saying "Let us reason togther" etc and so we can and should try and reason using our brain to try and understand things and so any just person cannot uphold the principle of wrath and judgement on the innocent or for the sins of someone else. Nobody does that in a civilised country and we say God has higher principles than we do,

I don't flaunt my belief in God and don't care who and what others believe but like to show that I too believed a lot of this stuff for many years and so maybe people like to know that and why I have changed to being a Deist, rather than following any organised religious faith.

I did say that Jesus never taught that shedding of blood was essential for salvation according to other parts of the Gospels and so which one shall we go with?

Our OWN intelligence knows the answer and why we really should use it when we can.
Mike.com
Posts: 91
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7/27/2015 5:26:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is no correlation between Adam and us as he didn't exist or wasn't created by God as we are now. People can point to the sins of mankind and there are many and say its because sin entered the world in the garden of eden but that is just nonsense when the evidence for that is looked at seriously. Yes I agree its a huge problem for those that believe in Genesis but I read that not even many Jews believe that nowadays. And its there scripture.
celestialtorahteacher
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7/27/2015 6:04:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Paul introduced the Greco-Roman world's Mystery Religion theology into Judaism to produce his type of "Pauline" Christianity where the main doctrine is: "Jesus died for your sins" because of the Fall of Man with Adam and Eve disobeying Yahweh and learning Knowledge of God.

This is Judah priests and Pauline Church men not remembering their own Scriptures of Genesis, the very first chapter where God tells us human beings were made in the image of God, made male and female, and made "good, very good indeed" according to EL the Creator. You can worship EL, Jesus' heavenly Father, or you can worship Judah's and Paul's man-made god, YHWH, but you can't worship both at once and serve either honestly and wisely.

While Paul did make Jewish Christianity into a form of Jewish Mystery Religion so Rome could buy into this new religion because it fit their Mystery Religion formulas and thus spread Christianity, Paul's vicarious sin atonement theology is bound at some point to be outed as absurdly primitive pagan belief, that psychological identification with a dying/resurrection godman's agonizing death and rebirth representing death of the sun and crops in Winter until Spring revival, could make a man "born again". How does that work when in normal parlance people who hide their crimes behind some innocent person taking their blame are considered moral cowards?
Geogeer
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7/27/2015 6:05:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 5:26:17 PM, Mike.com wrote:
There is no correlation between Adam and us as he didn't exist or wasn't created by God as we are now.

So if this is what you believe why bother asking?

People can point to the sins of mankind and there are many and say its because sin entered the world in the garden of eden but that is just nonsense when the evidence for that is looked at seriously.

Provide your nonsense to validate your point.

Yes I agree its a huge problem for those that believe in Genesis but I read that not even many Jews believe that nowadays. And its there scripture.

And reading the Old Testament, it was never observed that the Jews stopped observing the scriptures...
August_Burns_Red
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7/27/2015 6:16:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 6:04:19 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Paul introduced the Greco-Roman world's Mystery Religion theology into Judaism to produce his type of "Pauline" Christianity where the main doctrine is: "Jesus died for your sins" because of the Fall of Man with Adam and Eve disobeying Yahweh and learning Knowledge of God.

This is Judah priests and Pauline Church men not remembering their own Scriptures of Genesis, the very first chapter where God tells us human beings were made in the image of God, made male and female, and made "good, very good indeed" according to EL the Creator. You can worship EL, Jesus' heavenly Father, or you can worship Judah's and Paul's man-made god, YHWH, but you can't worship both at once and serve either honestly and wisely.

While Paul did make Jewish Christianity into a form of Jewish Mystery Religion so Rome could buy into this new religion because it fit their Mystery Religion formulas and thus spread Christianity, Paul's vicarious sin atonement theology is bound at some point to be outed as absurdly primitive pagan belief, that psychological identification with a dying/resurrection godman's agonizing death and rebirth representing death of the sun and crops in Winter until Spring revival, could make a man "born again". How does that work when in normal parlance people who hide their crimes behind some innocent person taking their blame are considered moral cowards?

Refreshing to see a fellow Christian who knows the truth of Paul;s theology about Jesus being the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. since it is HIS and Jesus never claimed He was going to be any sort of Ultimate Sacrifice.
Further, Paul got the story from an old Leviticus story about the cursed tree. He then just made the Cross "that tree." Read about it here..........http://www.reformation21.org...
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/27/2015 6:35:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 5:22:19 PM, Mike.com wrote:

Its just my opinion but isn't it best if people don't cut and paste as it makes all the posts too longwinded and have to scroll down to see the replies, although of course some will add they need to do that in replying to a point, But just writing a post does that imo.
Well, the issue is that when you don't reply with quotes, the person never gets a notification.

See thing is people say we shouldn't judge the actions of God when we say we ALL should not be punished for the sin of one man. I could use the OT to show God saying the sins of the father will not be laden on the children and another text that says they will. Now Isaiah Chap1 has God saying "Let us reason togther" etc and so we can and should try and reason using our brain to try and understand things and so any just person cannot uphold the principle of wrath and judgement on the innocent or for the sins of someone else. Nobody does that in a civilised country and we say God has higher principles than we do,
I am not 100% sure one what you are rambling about in all honesty. I gather that you are questioning how just God is? If that is what you mean, then let me know and I will respond.

I don't flaunt my belief in God and don't care who and what others believe but like to show that I too believed a lot of this stuff for many years and so maybe people like to know that and why I have changed to being a Deist, rather than following any organised religious faith.
Fair enough.
I did say that Jesus never taught that shedding of blood was essential for salvation according to other parts of the Gospels and so which one shall we go with?
Go ahead and send the verses and I will address each one directly.

Our OWN intelligence knows the answer and why we really should use it when we can.
I completely agree. I didn't come to my conclusions about the Bible by blindly following some pastor. I had to put in the research and reasoning.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Sooner
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7/28/2015 4:33:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, this guy named Satan caught up with our ancestors when they were young and nieve and did some "predatory lending" to them.

Anyway, we couldn't pay it back, so he did it for us to get our credit score back up so we could get our life going again.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Juan_Pablo
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7/28/2015 4:56:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

It's the same reason why ancient cultures (not just the Jews) perform ritual sacrifices: to atone for the sins of their communities.

Like it or not, God has a way of forcing humans to behave responsibly. Yes, it is scary, (I'm not all that thrilled about the idea myself) but it is what it is, and a world this vulnerable to collapse and perpetually on the brink of extinction requires people to live within limits. Approve of it or not as an individual, religion is just as much an invention of practical evolution as is writing and community law.

Jesus died for the sins of others because there's a rudimentary price to humans for misbehavior and negligence of responsibilities.
graceofgod
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7/28/2015 9:19:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

how does an earthly parent forgive their child of even the most vilest crime, I guess they say it is ok but that is not forgiving their crime that is just saying it is ok, they cannot stop the child serving their sentence or wipe the slate clean for what they have done, they can just say it is ok...

God set a standard to spend eternity with him, that standard is set, mankind cannot attain that standard in fact we only have what God describes as filthy rags, Jesus came to pay for those vilest crimes not to just say it's ok but to wipe them away, so when we stand before God it is as those vilest crimes never even happened...

Now to me that is pretty special...
TheWORDisLIFE
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7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,020
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7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/

I don't think your idea quite adds up...
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,020
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7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/29/2015 7:06:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we vnderstand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seene were not made of things which doe appeare.

It says "WORLDS", meaning more than one. So what world is the Bible talking about? Is it talking about Disney world? Sea world? what world is the Bible talking about???

That is the reason why PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT -Isaiah 28:10
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/29/2015 7:08:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....

You read the Bible like a school book and it's not a school book. That is why you believe that heaven will be in the sky; hell is underneath the earth with a red guy poking at people with a pitch for, Jesus didn't have an earthly father, everyone will be saved, etc...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,020
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7/29/2015 8:25:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 7:06:43 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we vnderstand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seene were not made of things which doe appeare.

It says "WORLDS", meaning more than one. So what world is the Bible talking about? Is it talking about Disney world? Sea world? what world is the Bible talking about???

That is the reason why PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT -Isaiah 28:10

So every time the bible says world it means Isreal....

sorry but I think false teaching is built precept on precept.... by some people..
graceofgod
Posts: 5,020
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7/29/2015 8:27:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 7:08:35 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....

You read the Bible like a school book and it's not a school book. That is why you believe that heaven will be in the sky; hell is underneath the earth with a red guy poking at people with a pitch for, Jesus didn't have an earthly father, everyone will be saved, etc...

I read the bible in faith and trusting the Holy spirit and I trust that salvation is for all of mankind not just the Jews and Isreal...
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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7/29/2015 8:42:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 8:25:06 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 7:06:43 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:53:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:46:25 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:31:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:24:23 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:43:28 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:35:11 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 7/27/2015 8:40:46 AM, Mike.com wrote:
OK, its not a new topic and hope Christians can answer this question please.

Jesus seemed to forgive sins before he died. Read where Jesus said Salvation had come to the house of Zacchaeus that day because he vowed to change his way of life.

So it would seem that Jesus did NOT have to die for men's sins and it was Paul to corrupted the Gospel message to control others minds.

But the obvious follow up question is this and I have asked it here but may have gotten lost in the noise so will ask it again of Christians.

Most parents will forgive their children of anything they do even the most vilest of crimes because they LOVE them. Most people will agree with that. Parents don't ask for someone else to intervene or stand in their place, or have to serve time in prison or even repay money, let alone ask them to die before they forgive them and so...

IF God's love is far greater than man's ever could be than why is God's love less than that of humans he created because he demands they have to believe he gave his only son to die a cruel death on the cross in order to do that? And nothing less will do and IF they don't, they will ALL suffer everlasting torment in hell.

I think IF Christians can THINK about that single question seriously, it could just open a floodgate of other questions about other things made up by men in the bible and by the church.

Jesus only died for the Israelites and only gave repentance of sins to the Israelites - Acts 5:31.

yet Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman who spoke to others and cornelius the roman and his houshold were saved and the Ethiopian eunuch were saved...

Once again, Cornelius was an Israelite, not a roman, the Ethiopian was not an African, he was an Israelite. Just because someone is born in a country doesn't make them the ethnicity of that country. For instance, I am what you people like to call "African-American" (we don't come from 2 continents). If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinese? No, I'm still going to be an Israelite or what you people call "African-American", but I'll have citizenship in China. I'll give you another example...

Acts 22:25-27
[25] And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said vnto the Centurion that stood by, Is it lawfull for you to scourge a man that is a Romane, and vncondemned?

[26] When the Centurion heard that, hee went and told the chiefe captaine, saying, Take heede what thou doest, for this man is a Romane.

[27] Then the chiefe captaine came; and said vnto him, Tell me, art thou a Romane? He said, Yea.

So Paul says he's a Roman, but in Romans 11:1 he says he's an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbidde. For I also am an Israelite of the seede of Abraham, of the tribe of Beniamin.

So how can Paul be a Roman, when he says he's an Israelite? It's because the Israelites had citizenship in Rome. Cornelius had citizenship in Rome, that doesn't make him a Roman. My forefathers and foremothers had citizenship in all the nations.

and the gospel was said to be preached to all the nations...

Why was the gospel preached in all nations???? Because the Israelites were and still are in ALLL NATIONS. Again, we have been disperesed among the heathen - John 7:35

Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed vp, now shal they be among the Gentiles, as a vessell wherein is no pleasure.

God does not change (Malachi 3:6). He said in the OT that HE has not dealt with any other nations but Israel; Israel was the only nation that was/is given the Law - Psalms 147:19-20. So if God says that HE doesn't change and only knows Israel (Amos 3:1-2) of all the families of the earth, why would HE change in the NT????

Acts 2:21-22

[21] And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.

[22] Yee men of Israel, heare these words, Iesus of Nazareth, a man approued of God among you, by miracles, wonders, and signes, which God did by him in the midst of you, as yee your selues also know:

The "whosoever" is Israel according to v22, it's not the whole world.

so the roman was an isrealite and the Ethiopian was an isrealite....

lol....

and God made the whole earth but he was only ever interested in isreal and saving isreal...

was the samaritan woman isreali??/


I don't think your idea quite adds up...

lol, it's not my idea, it's the Bible bucko. It's the Bible which you don't believe in because you only believe in a few Scriptures and omit the rest, which is what a typical modern day "Christian" does.

lol, it seems to be your version of the bible bucko...

mine says Jesus died for the sins of the world, not sure the word for world meant Isreal...

still not sure how the Roman and all his household were Israelites or the Ethiopian eunuch was Israelite or how the Samaritan woman was Israelite...

and why did it say preach the gospel to the whole of the Jews, oh it didn't it said to all the nations....

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we vnderstand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seene were not made of things which doe appeare.

It says "WORLDS", meaning more than one. So what world is the Bible talking about? Is it talking about Disney world? Sea world? what world is the Bible talking about???

That is the reason why PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT -Isaiah 28:10

So every time the bible says world it means Isreal....

sorry but I think false teaching is built precept on precept.... by some people..

Can you answer my question, with Scripture?