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faith intolerance!!!

graceofgod
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7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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7/28/2015 9:30:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

I don't think there's many intolerant people towards people of faith, specially when atheists are actually a minority in the US, and within atheists, only a minority is intolerant towards people of faith. So I believe you are overreacting.

That or maybe you confuse intolerance with disagreement. I do not believe in God, and I won't accept God exists unless you convince me otherwise. I don't see how this is discriminative against you.
graceofgod
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7/28/2015 9:34:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:30:26 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

I don't think there's many intolerant people towards people of faith, specially when atheists are actually a minority in the US, and within atheists, only a minority is intolerant towards people of faith. So I believe you are overreacting.

That or maybe you confuse intolerance with disagreement. I do not believe in God, and I won't accept God exists unless you convince me otherwise. I don't see how this is discriminative against you.

try looking across forums, you will see quite different...
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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7/28/2015 9:38:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

Please know I say the following as a Born Again Christian.

But the thing is, I have met a lot of people of Faith, almost always of the Fundamentalist or Biblical Literalist persuasion, that deserve to be un-tolerated by Agnostics and Atheists. Hell, even I have trouble tolerating them. Many times I would rather talk Theology with an Atheist or Agnostic than one of these cats.
Jesus felt the same way. Little tolerance for the hypocrisy and selfish Pomp of the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin. He seemed to prefer hanging with the Sinners. I dont blame Him. They are often open and teachable. Not like the Fundamentalists.

Just like a few minutes ago on a thread about how to pray. Somebody said that praying to only one part of the Triune God was like praying to an Anti-Christ! WTF? Or the guy who tells me I am not a true Christian because I believe in Evolution and not in a literal Genesis Creation Myth. I sometimes have to tolerate this because they ARE after all fellow Christians. Luckily I attend a Church that is on the Liberal/Progressive end of the Christian Fundamentalist Scale, so I dont have to weather their dogma too often. I chose Unity Church for this very fact. After I got Saved last year I first began going to a Lutheran Church. Not a bad place really; some fine people. But I just felt that they like many Fundamental or Mainstream Traditional sects are Missing what Jesus was tryiing to tell us and what God wants from us. Missing the Forest for the Trees of Anitquated Dogma. (Dogwood Trees?) Hey I like that! LOL.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/28/2015 9:40:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:38:08 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

Please know I say the following as a Born Again Christian.

But the thing is, I have met a lot of people of Faith, almost always of the Fundamentalist or Biblical Literalist persuasion, that deserve to be un-tolerated by Agnostics and Atheists. Hell, even I have trouble tolerating them. Many times I would rather talk Theology with an Atheist or Agnostic than one of these cats.
Jesus felt the same way. Little tolerance for the hypocrisy and selfish Pomp of the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin. He seemed to prefer hanging with the Sinners. I dont blame Him. They are often open and teachable. Not like the Fundamentalists.

Just like a few minutes ago on a thread about how to pray. Somebody said that praying to only one part of the Triune God was like praying to an Anti-Christ! WTF? Or the guy who tells me I am not a true Christian because I believe in Evolution and not in a literal Genesis Creation Myth. I sometimes have to tolerate this because they ARE after all fellow Christians. Luckily I attend a Church that is on the Liberal/Progressive end of the Christian Fundamentalist Scale, so I dont have to weather their dogma too often. I chose Unity Church for this very fact. After I got Saved last year I first began going to a Lutheran Church. Not a bad place really; some fine people. But I just felt that they like many Fundamental or Mainstream Traditional sects are Missing what Jesus was tryiing to tell us and what God wants from us. Missing the Forest for the Trees of Anitquated Dogma. (Dogwood Trees?) Hey I like that! LOL.

my favourite saying.... lawful is only one letter more than awful.......lol
Floid
Posts: 751
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7/28/2015 9:40:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:34:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
try looking across forums, you will see quite different...

I am going to break some Earth shattering news to you. I assume you are seated so hopefully this will go ok...

Due to the anonymity provided by the Internet, people on forums tend to act in extreme ways that are uncharacteristic of how these same people would interact with other humans in real life. One name for this is "trolling", you may have heard of it. If it bothers you the best thing is to abandon internet based communication and seek more direct interaction with people. If you do that you will find much of the intolerance exhibited on the Internet, whether that be racial, sexual, religious, sports team based, etc is not found in the real world.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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7/28/2015 9:42:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:40:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:38:08 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

Please know I say the following as a Born Again Christian.

But the thing is, I have met a lot of people of Faith, almost always of the Fundamentalist or Biblical Literalist persuasion, that deserve to be un-tolerated by Agnostics and Atheists. Hell, even I have trouble tolerating them. Many times I would rather talk Theology with an Atheist or Agnostic than one of these cats.
Jesus felt the same way. Little tolerance for the hypocrisy and selfish Pomp of the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin. He seemed to prefer hanging with the Sinners. I dont blame Him. They are often open and teachable. Not like the Fundamentalists.

Just like a few minutes ago on a thread about how to pray. Somebody said that praying to only one part of the Triune God was like praying to an Anti-Christ! WTF? Or the guy who tells me I am not a true Christian because I believe in Evolution and not in a literal Genesis Creation Myth. I sometimes have to tolerate this because they ARE after all fellow Christians. Luckily I attend a Church that is on the Liberal/Progressive end of the Christian Fundamentalist Scale, so I dont have to weather their dogma too often. I chose Unity Church for this very fact. After I got Saved last year I first began going to a Lutheran Church. Not a bad place really; some fine people. But I just felt that they like many Fundamental or Mainstream Traditional sects are Missing what Jesus was tryiing to tell us and what God wants from us. Missing the Forest for the Trees of Anitquated Dogma. (Dogwood Trees?) Hey I like that! LOL.

my favourite saying.... lawful is only one letter more than awful.......lol

Yeah, good one. I also like "Religious Fundamentalism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel"
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/28/2015 9:45:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:40:49 PM, Floid wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:34:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
try looking across forums, you will see quite different...

I am going to break some Earth shattering news to you. I assume you are seated so hopefully this will go ok...

Due to the anonymity provided by the Internet, people on forums tend to act in extreme ways that are uncharacteristic of how these same people would interact with other humans in real life. One name for this is "trolling", you may have heard of it. If it bothers you the best thing is to abandon internet based communication and seek more direct interaction with people. If you do that you will find much of the intolerance exhibited on the Internet, whether that be racial, sexual, religious, sports team based, etc is not found in the real world.

really, are you so sure, I think you will find faith intolerance all over the real world...

Christian bakers being sued, churches being sued, Christian B&'s being sued, prayer taken from schools, worship taken from schools, the nativity taken from schools...

perhaps you don't look in to the real world yourself or perhaps your rose tinted glasses get all steamed up...

but Bless you any way....
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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7/28/2015 10:38:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??
It is not that there are a bunch of intolerant atheists/agnostics, the problem is that the intolerant ones are usually the most vocal. The same can almost be said about intolerant theists. Look at the media attention of hateful Christians (Westboro Baptist Church), hateful Muslims (Hamas; ISIS), or even just ridiculous Christians such as some of the televangelists. The point is that the more radical people are, the more vocal they tend to be.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
katie.snappy
Posts: 108
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7/28/2015 10:47:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:45:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
really, are you so sure, I think you will find faith intolerance all over the real world...

Christian bakers being sued, churches being sued, Christian B&'s being sued, prayer taken from schools, worship taken from schools, the nativity taken from schools...

perhaps you don't look in to the real world yourself or perhaps your rose tinted glasses get all steamed up...

but Bless you any way....

Christian bakers being sued is not faith intolerance. It is because a business refusing service based on gender, religion, and sexual orientation is illegal. A business is considered a public accommodation and is therefore subject to the same laws all other businesses fall under. Refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple is equal to a restaurant refusing to serve a gay couple in the eyes of the law.

Prayer was taken from school because public schools are a government entity and are subject to separation of church and state. Although prayer is not explicit in which religion it in supporting, government is not allowed to promote or endorse any form of religious practice. Worship was taken from the schools for the same reason. So were nativity scenes. If you want your children to experience these things, simply send them to a religious private school. That way they can be involved in religious activities without interfering with other students right to believe or not believe.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/28/2015 10:56:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 10:47:10 PM, katie.snappy wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:45:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
really, are you so sure, I think you will find faith intolerance all over the real world...

Christian bakers being sued, churches being sued, Christian B&'s being sued, prayer taken from schools, worship taken from schools, the nativity taken from schools...

perhaps you don't look in to the real world yourself or perhaps your rose tinted glasses get all steamed up...

but Bless you any way....

Christian bakers being sued is not faith intolerance. It is because a business refusing service based on gender, religion, and sexual orientation is illegal. A business is considered a public accommodation and is therefore subject to the same laws all other businesses fall under. Refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple is equal to a restaurant refusing to serve a gay couple in the eyes of the law.

Prayer was taken from school because public schools are a government entity and are subject to separation of church and state. Although prayer is not explicit in which religion it in supporting, government is not allowed to promote or endorse any form of religious practice. Worship was taken from the schools for the same reason. So were nativity scenes. If you want your children to experience these things, simply send them to a religious private school. That way they can be involved in religious activities without interfering with other students right to believe or not believe.

Of course it is intolerance, the rights of believers to practice their faith is being abused, it is the worse kind of intolerance...

why should they have to go to a religious school, do those who want to be taught about homosexuality have to go to a homosexual school, do those who want to be taught about evolution have to go to an evolutionary school..
RuvDraba
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7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 9:29:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?

isn't intolerance just as yo are showing in this post here...??

why question what I believe, why not just accept it is what I want to believe...??

why question anyone's faith if it is what they want to believe??

their faith does not effect your life??
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/29/2015 10:21:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 9:29:57 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?

isn't intolerance just as yo are showing in this post here...??
Is it? I note that you evaded every question I asked.

why question what I believe, why not just accept it is what I want to believe...??
their faith does not effect your life

Truly, GoG? I'm afraid that I have some more questions for you then.

1. Please name the two most hated religious categories in the US, and the sects which hate them most.

2. Explain please why the US Defense of Marriage Act, 1996 was sponsored, the faith groups that lobbied for it, and why it was eventually thrown out as being unconstitutional.

3. Please name the US states in which there are laws saying that you must be of a certain faith to occupy public office.

4. Please name three secular occupations in which Americans not of religious belief routinely hide this fact, and explain why they do so.

5. Please name two faiths in which male children may be circumcised for religious reasons.

6. Please name the major monotheistic faith that taught Africans in vulnerable HIV-afflicted areas that condoms help to spread AIDS.

7. Please state the total annual value of religious tax exemptions in the US.

8. Enacted in 1944 is a law in which English-speaking country requiring all state-funded schools to hold compulsory daily worship?

If you cannot answer questions like these, GoG, then you have no idea how much the beliefs of a religious majority can affect the lives of those outside their faith.

But if you can then you don't need me to answer the question for you.
Floid
Posts: 751
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7/29/2015 10:52:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:45:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
really, are you so sure, I think you will find faith intolerance all over the real world...

Christian bakers being sued, churches being sued, Christian B&'s being sued, prayer taken from schools, worship taken from schools, the nativity taken from schools...

perhaps you don't look in to the real world yourself or perhaps your rose tinted glasses get all steamed up...

but Bless you any way....

1. How many Christian bakers/churches are there and how many of those are getting sued. I think you will find the ratio is very, very low. That is not a sign of systemic intolerance, it is more a sign of the media and those who actively desire to be persecuted amplifying a very rare event.

2. Christian prayer and religious symbology taken from schools is an increase in faith tolerance as it recognizes the fact that there is more than one faith.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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7/29/2015 11:11:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you do?
I bake cakes
Will you bake a cake for me?
Sure
I'm an atheist
Well feck off then my god tells me not to have anything to do with you.
.
.
.
.
What do you do?
I bake cakes
Will you bake a cake for me?
Sure
I'm a christian
Well feck off your beliefs are anathema to me.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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7/29/2015 11:16:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

I make no apology for being intolerant of people who use their faith as an excuse for abuse. The unpleasant idiots who threaten people with hell, for instance!
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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7/29/2015 12:18:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

Maybe if they left everyone else alone.........

Maybe if they didn't try to usurp science to try and get their prior religious belief taught as science

Maybe if they didn't have dogmas which they demand must be accepted beyond any objection raised or evidence to the contrary.

Maybe if they didn't poison the minds of children that anyone who doesn't agree with them is just evil and of Satan while they live in Gods truth.

Maybe if they didn't use the promise and heaven and fear of hell to keep the believer in such a state to not dare question to hard their own religious beliefs least they be cut out as some one who has fallen away.

Maybe if they didn't go around screaming about religious freedom, but through their own actions only mean freedom for their religion.

Maybe if they didn't go around talking for a God who can't or won't speak for himself so we have to hear via second hand accounts about how God wants us to accept a human blood sacrifice as a payment of sin or said God is just so pissed about two consenting adults of the same sex marriage he is going to have to kill some people by flood to show them what's what....................

Maybe if we didn't have to hear about how good and powerful God is because some one got cancer treatment at a hospital and thus being now cured is clearly the work of God...........while in the mean time a blind child is not cured and thus we should just accept this awesome mysterious God who our fininte and tiny minds can't understand why God what he does...............except when it convenient for the believer to claim God did something and why he did it.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Draconius
Posts: 90
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7/29/2015 12:25:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

It never just stops there. Those who want to believe also want others to believe... They also act as though only those that believe possess any morals. They inject their belief into every phase of life and can't let those of us who don't believe just not do so and be happy...
I have no problem with the existence of a "god." It is the behavior of his fan clubs that frightens me to no end...
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 1:30:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 10:21:02 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:29:57 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?

isn't intolerance just as yo are showing in this post here...??
Is it? I note that you evaded every question I asked.

why question what I believe, why not just accept it is what I want to believe...??
their faith does not effect your life

Truly, GoG? I'm afraid that I have some more questions for you then.

1. Please name the two most hated religious categories in the US, and the sects which hate them most.

2. Explain please why the US Defense of Marriage Act, 1996 was sponsored, the faith groups that lobbied for it, and why it was eventually thrown out as being unconstitutional.

3. Please name the US states in which there are laws saying that you must be of a certain faith to occupy public office.

4. Please name three secular occupations in which Americans not of religious belief routinely hide this fact, and explain why they do so.

5. Please name two faiths in which male children may be circumcised for religious reasons.

6. Please name the major monotheistic faith that taught Africans in vulnerable HIV-afflicted areas that condoms help to spread AIDS.

7. Please state the total annual value of religious tax exemptions in the US.

8. Enacted in 1944 is a law in which English-speaking country requiring all state-funded schools to hold compulsory daily worship?

If you cannot answer questions like these, GoG, then you have no idea how much the beliefs of a religious majority can affect the lives of those outside their faith.

But if you can then you don't need me to answer the question for you.

So i'm not a yank so that gets me out of your first few questions...

no idea what faith circumcise to be honest and did they make you get circumcised, did it harm you in anyway??

no idea who talked them out of condoms did that affect you??

compulsory worship, oh wo is me they made me sing....lol

so why can't you leave people of faith alone again I forget, oh yeah your a bigot, now I remember...
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 1:32:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 10:52:07 AM, Floid wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:45:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
really, are you so sure, I think you will find faith intolerance all over the real world...

Christian bakers being sued, churches being sued, Christian B&'s being sued, prayer taken from schools, worship taken from schools, the nativity taken from schools...

perhaps you don't look in to the real world yourself or perhaps your rose tinted glasses get all steamed up...

but Bless you any way....

1. How many Christian bakers/churches are there and how many of those are getting sued. I think you will find the ratio is very, very low. That is not a sign of systemic intolerance, it is more a sign of the media and those who actively desire to be persecuted amplifying a very rare event.

2. Christian prayer and religious symbology taken from schools is an increase in faith tolerance as it recognizes the fact that there is more than one faith.

not now, i would think every Christian business is pretty worried about the next demand against their rights... but hey equality works every way to everyone's benefit...
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 1:33:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 11:16:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

I make no apology for being intolerant of people who use their faith as an excuse for abuse. The unpleasant idiots who threaten people with hell, for instance!

If you don't believe it where is the threat, please don't try to excuse your bigotry, try to be honest about it....
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/29/2015 1:34:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 12:18:24 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

Maybe if they left everyone else alone.........

Maybe if they didn't try to usurp science to try and get their prior religious belief taught as science

Maybe if they didn't have dogmas which they demand must be accepted beyond any objection raised or evidence to the contrary.

Maybe if they didn't poison the minds of children that anyone who doesn't agree with them is just evil and of Satan while they live in Gods truth.

Maybe if they didn't use the promise and heaven and fear of hell to keep the believer in such a state to not dare question to hard their own religious beliefs least they be cut out as some one who has fallen away.

Maybe if they didn't go around screaming about religious freedom, but through their own actions only mean freedom for their religion.

Maybe if they didn't go around talking for a God who can't or won't speak for himself so we have to hear via second hand accounts about how God wants us to accept a human blood sacrifice as a payment of sin or said God is just so pissed about two consenting adults of the same sex marriage he is going to have to kill some people by flood to show them what's what....................

Maybe if we didn't have to hear about how good and powerful God is because some one got cancer treatment at a hospital and thus being now cured is clearly the work of God...........while in the mean time a blind child is not cured and thus we should just accept this awesome mysterious God who our fininte and tiny minds can't understand why God what he does...............except when it convenient for the believer to claim God did something and why he did it.

in what way if you do not believe it does it intrude....??
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/29/2015 1:35:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 12:25:33 PM, Draconius wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

It never just stops there. Those who want to believe also want others to believe... They also act as though only those that believe possess any morals. They inject their belief into every phase of life and can't let those of us who don't believe just not do so and be happy...

What and you are so scared that they might convert you, just grow a pair and say no thank you...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/29/2015 1:45:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:30:40 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 10:21:02 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:29:57 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?

isn't intolerance just as yo are showing in this post here...??
Is it? I note that you evaded every question I asked.

why question what I believe, why not just accept it is what I want to believe...??
their faith does not effect your life

Truly, GoG? I'm afraid that I have some more questions for you then.

1. Please name the two most hated religious categories in the US, and the sects which hate them most.

2. Explain please why the US Defense of Marriage Act, 1996 was sponsored, the faith groups that lobbied for it, and why it was eventually thrown out as being unconstitutional.

3. Please name the US states in which there are laws saying that you must be of a certain faith to occupy public office.

4. Please name three secular occupations in which Americans not of religious belief routinely hide this fact, and explain why they do so.

5. Please name two faiths in which male children may be circumcised for religious reasons.

6. Please name the major monotheistic faith that taught Africans in vulnerable HIV-afflicted areas that condoms help to spread AIDS.

7. Please state the total annual value of religious tax exemptions in the US.

8. Enacted in 1944 is a law in which English-speaking country requiring all state-funded schools to hold compulsory daily worship?

If you cannot answer questions like these, GoG, then you have no idea how much the beliefs of a religious majority can affect the lives of those outside their faith.

But if you can then you don't need me to answer the question for you.

So i'm not a yank so that gets me out of your first few questions...

I'm not either, so please answer them.

no idea what faith circumcise to be honest and did they make you get circumcised, did it harm you in anyway??

no idea who talked them out of condoms did that affect you??

compulsory worship, oh wo is me they made me sing....lol

so why can't you leave people of faith alone again I forget, oh yeah your a bigot, now I remember...

Do I understand you rightly, GoG, that I must have a personal grievance about religion to have any moral objection at all to the social impacts of theology?

And is it also true that my objections must be ones you personally care about before it's legitimate to object?

And is it correct that you believe all moral critique to be bigotry? If so, are you willing to agree that a religion presuming to pronounce on who goes to heaven is a faith founded on bigotry?

Would I be right in guessing that you don't actually care about the answers to your questions, but rather you just wanted someone to abuse today?

If that is not true, please answer the first questions I asked you. They are central to the matter, and you have evaded them in multiple posts. Here they are again:

* Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority? Isn't it rather the assertion of belief without the moral or intellectual authority to be sure that belief is true?
* If faith doesn't entail moral or intellectual authority, why claim it?
* If you do claim authority over others based on nothing but faith, doesn't that warrant independent scrutiny and critique?

We've seen your evasions. Now let's see some honesty please.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/29/2015 1:51:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:45:15 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/29/2015 1:30:40 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 10:21:02 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:29:57 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/28/2015 11:12:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

Are you sure it's always intolerance of faith, GoG? Mightn't it sometimes be intolerance of false claims to authority instead?

And are you tolerant of false authorities yourself?

Or let me ask it another way...

Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority, would you say?

Isn't it rather commitment to belief absent evidence of its moral and intellectual authority?

If so, why claim the authority? And isn't it defensible to be intolerant of such claims to authority when they're used to control, exploit, hurt, harm or destroy others?

isn't intolerance just as yo are showing in this post here...??
Is it? I note that you evaded every question I asked.

why question what I believe, why not just accept it is what I want to believe...??
their faith does not effect your life

Truly, GoG? I'm afraid that I have some more questions for you then.

1. Please name the two most hated religious categories in the US, and the sects which hate them most.

2. Explain please why the US Defense of Marriage Act, 1996 was sponsored, the faith groups that lobbied for it, and why it was eventually thrown out as being unconstitutional.

3. Please name the US states in which there are laws saying that you must be of a certain faith to occupy public office.

4. Please name three secular occupations in which Americans not of religious belief routinely hide this fact, and explain why they do so.

5. Please name two faiths in which male children may be circumcised for religious reasons.

6. Please name the major monotheistic faith that taught Africans in vulnerable HIV-afflicted areas that condoms help to spread AIDS.

7. Please state the total annual value of religious tax exemptions in the US.

8. Enacted in 1944 is a law in which English-speaking country requiring all state-funded schools to hold compulsory daily worship?

If you cannot answer questions like these, GoG, then you have no idea how much the beliefs of a religious majority can affect the lives of those outside their faith.

But if you can then you don't need me to answer the question for you.

So i'm not a yank so that gets me out of your first few questions...

I'm not either, so please answer them.

no idea what faith circumcise to be honest and did they make you get circumcised, did it harm you in anyway??

no idea who talked them out of condoms did that affect you??

compulsory worship, oh wo is me they made me sing....lol

so why can't you leave people of faith alone again I forget, oh yeah your a bigot, now I remember...

Do I understand you rightly, GoG, that I must have a personal grievance about religion to have any moral objection at all to the social impacts of theology?

And is it also true that my objections must be ones you personally care about before it's legitimate to object?

And is it correct that you believe all moral critique to be bigotry? If so, are you willing to agree that a religion presuming to pronounce on who goes to heaven is a faith founded on bigotry?

Would I be right in guessing that you don't actually care about the answers to your questions, but rather you just wanted someone to abuse today?

If that is not true, please answer the first questions I asked you. They are central to the matter, and you have evaded them in multiple posts. Here they are again:

* Does faith entail moral or intellectual authority? Isn't it rather the assertion of belief without the moral or intellectual authority to be sure that belief is true?
* If faith doesn't entail moral or intellectual authority, why claim it?
* If you do claim authority over others based on nothing but faith, doesn't that warrant independent scrutiny and critique?

We've seen your evasions. Now let's see some honesty please.

yep that's pretty much how intolerance is viewed these days, you can't just say you disagree or that makes you a faithophobe, you must have a valid reason to disagree and I must agree with your disagreement or you are just scared of faith or still phobic..

I claim nothing other than a faith in Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I don't care if you believe what I believe or not, I cannot and will not convert you to what I believe it is your choice...

All I ask is that you recognise my right to believe in my faith and live my faith..
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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7/29/2015 1:53:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:35:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 12:25:33 PM, Draconius wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

It never just stops there. Those who want to believe also want others to believe... They also act as though only those that believe possess any morals. They inject their belief into every phase of life and can't let those of us who don't believe just not do so and be happy...

What and you are so scared that they might convert you, just grow a pair and say no thank you...

That's all well and good. But I can't just do that when it comes to the law. If politicians that have these beliefs are getting elected and if they don't strive to maintain the separation of church and state, then I could very well end up in a situation where I can't just say no thank you.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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7/29/2015 1:56:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:53:21 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 7/29/2015 1:35:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 12:25:33 PM, Draconius wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

It never just stops there. Those who want to believe also want others to believe... They also act as though only those that believe possess any morals. They inject their belief into every phase of life and can't let those of us who don't believe just not do so and be happy...

What and you are so scared that they might convert you, just grow a pair and say no thank you...

That's all well and good. But I can't just do that when it comes to the law. If politicians that have these beliefs are getting elected and if they don't strive to maintain the separation of church and state, then I could very well end up in a situation where I can't just say no thank you.

Yes that can happen when those in control make bad decisions that affect others through no fault of their own...

look at legalising gay marriage... for example...
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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7/29/2015 2:17:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:56:11 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 1:53:21 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 7/29/2015 1:35:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 12:25:33 PM, Draconius wrote:
At 7/28/2015 9:24:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
why do so many people seem determined to be intolerant of people of faith??

they seem determined to take away the joy and Love many get from knowing God exists..

how does it affect others??

why can't you just let people who want to believe do so and be happy...??

It never just stops there. Those who want to believe also want others to believe... They also act as though only those that believe possess any morals. They inject their belief into every phase of life and can't let those of us who don't believe just not do so and be happy...

What and you are so scared that they might convert you, just grow a pair and say no thank you...

That's all well and good. But I can't just do that when it comes to the law. If politicians that have these beliefs are getting elected and if they don't strive to maintain the separation of church and state, then I could very well end up in a situation where I can't just say no thank you.

Yes that can happen when those in control make bad decisions that affect others through no fault of their own...

look at legalising gay marriage... for example...

Oh you must be referring to the centuries of government and church sponsored oppression and hate of gay people by the religious right that is only now being reformed. Yes that is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/29/2015 3:04:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 1:51:51 PM, graceofgod wrote:
All I ask is that you recognise my right to believe in my faith and live my faith..
I'd say that depends on what 'live it' means.

You've already called me a bigot for no other reason than that I think claims to theological authority should be subject to scrutiny and critique.

Now, either you claim no authority, in which case that need never concern you; or else you do claim authority and you're calling me a bigot to try and preserve the authority you claim without actually admitting to what authorities they are.

But you still haven't answered my question of whether faith entails claim to moral and/or intellectual authority. Instead, you've resorted to further evasion with a term like 'living your faith' and 'not trying to convert you.'

You posed a question in the OP which I answered fully, accountably and politely -- and which earned me nothing but rudeness, dismissal and insult.

Now you need to do the same, GoG: do you claim moral and/or intellectual authority over others or not? In other words, do you hold not just that Jesus is your personal saviour, but that he is the sole and necessary saviour of mankind?

Answer the question.