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Muhammad and Jesus (God or prophets)??

submission2theWillOfGod
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7/29/2015 6:20:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." Quran 5:46
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~~" God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?" Numbers 23:19

~~" Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know." Acts 2:22

~~Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, " A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:1

~~"And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, " A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." Matthew 13:57

~~And the crowds were saying, " This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee. " Matthew 21:11

~~"For Jesus Himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country" John 4:44

~~Some of the people therefore, when they heard these words, were saying, " This certainly is the Prophet. " John 7:40

~~ "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people" Luke 24:19

~~"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world." John 6:14

~~"On hearing his words, some of the people said, "Surely this man is the Prophet." Others said, "He is the Messiah." John 7:40-41

~~"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." Luke 13:33

~~"Sir," the woman said, " I can see that you are a prophet. " John 4:19

~~"Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone. " Mark 10:18

~~"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? " Matthew 27:46

~~"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 5:30

~~"Verily, verily I say unto you, the servant is not greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." John 13:16

~~"Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me." John 7:33

~~"My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. (16)Anyone who chooses to do His will will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.(17)Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18

"I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die." Deuteronomy 18:18-20

"Indeed, We have sent to you a Messenger as a witness upon you just as We sent to Pharaoh a messenger."Quran 73:15

~~"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" 1 John 4:1-2

~~"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now. Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he"ll guide you into all truth. He won't speak on his own accord, but he"ll speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me" John 16:12-14

"By the Star when it goes down, Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled, Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is not but a revelation revealed, He was taught by one mighty in Power" Quran 53:1-5
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~~"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
Quran 61:6

~~"Say(O Muhammad):I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith." Quran 7:188

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!"
Say(O Muhammad): "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
Say(O Muhammad): "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way." Quran 5:75-77

"Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan."Quran 2:253

The story of Jesus from the Quran (at the bottom left you turn-on the audio) :

http://www.quranexplorer.com...

http://www.quranexplorer.com...

http://www.quranexplorer.com...

http://www.quranexplorer.com...
submission2theWillOfGod
Posts: 6
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7/29/2015 5:21:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 9:45:18 AM, graceofgod wrote:
Jesus was and is God...

muhammed was not a prophet and never will be...

i never said anything i just quoted from your bible !! :)
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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7/29/2015 5:27:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:21:31 PM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:45:18 AM, graceofgod wrote:
Jesus was and is God...

muhammed was not a prophet and never will be...

i never said anything i just quoted from your bible !! :)

you never quoted muhammed was a prophet from any bible...
graceofgod
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7/29/2015 5:38:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:30:04 PM, bulproof wrote:
Can a paedophile be a god?

I wouldn't have thought so...
submission2theWillOfGod
Posts: 6
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7/29/2015 5:57:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:27:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:21:31 PM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:45:18 AM, graceofgod wrote:
Jesus was and is God...

muhammed was not a prophet and never will be...

i never said anything i just quoted from your bible !! :)

you never quoted muhammed was a prophet from any bible...

I quoted that Jesus was a prophet and not god from your bible
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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7/29/2015 6:05:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:57:52 PM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:27:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 5:21:31 PM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:45:18 AM, graceofgod wrote:
Jesus was and is God...

muhammed was not a prophet and never will be...

i never said anything i just quoted from your bible !! :)

you never quoted muhammed was a prophet from any bible...

I quoted that Jesus was a prophet and not god from your bible

it says this is my son in whom i am well pleased, it says worship him, it says salvation is only through him, it says I am the alpha and the omega, it says everything was created through him..

it all says Jesus is God...
Fatihah
Posts: 7,755
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7/29/2015 6:13:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 5:21:31 PM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 9:45:18 AM, graceofgod wrote:
Jesus was and is God...

muhammed was not a prophet and never will be...

i never said anything i just quoted from your bible !! :)

Response: Exactly. Good point.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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7/29/2015 8:13:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 6:20:18 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:

~~" God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?" Numbers 23:19

This is comparing the actions of a perfect God with the actions of fallen humanity. It is prior to the incarnation and not a discussion on the Trinity.

~~" Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know." Acts 2:22

Hypostatic Union - Jesus was fully man and fully God.

~~Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, " A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:1
& John 4:44
Correction Luke 7:16

The people did not realize that he was a prophet and more. Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his Divine nature.

~~"And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, " A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." Matthew 13:57

And if I say when in Rome do as the Romans do - does that mean that I have to be in Rome to follow the local customs?

Basically, he is saying familiarity breeds contempt.

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~And the crowds were saying, " This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee. " Matthew 21:11

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~Some of the people therefore, when they heard these words, were saying, " This certainly is the Prophet. " John 7:40

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~ "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people" Luke 24:19

These were men who left the Apostles because they saddened after the crucifixion and did not realize that Christ was God. They met Jesus on the road and he explained the scriptures to them. Then later in the same Chapter they say:

The LORD is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

The LORD is a term reserved for God.

So the would be a clear affirmation of the divinity of Christ.

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world." John 6:14

The truth of a prophet is the truth of God. The People were not expecting God Himself to come among them.

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"On hearing his words, some of the people said, "Surely this man is the Prophet." Others said, "He is the Messiah." John 7:40-41

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." Luke 13:33

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"Sir," the woman said, " I can see that you are a prophet. " John 4:19

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone. " Mark 10:18

Very Jewish in what He is saying isn't it. He doesn't deny that he is Good. He is indirectly telling them that he is God.

~~"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? " Matthew 27:46

He was teaching that Psalm 22 referred to Him. It is also speculated by theologians that Christ permitted himself to experience the "dark night of the soul" so that he could suffer every type of anguish on the cross for us.

~~"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 5:30

If we go back to John 5:19:

Amen, amen, I say unto you: the Son cannot do any thing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner.

The Trinity acts in concert with all wills acting together and never separately.

~~"Verily, verily I say unto you, the servant is not greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." John 13:16

He was explaining this to them right before he washed their feet. He was showing them how to go out into the world.

~~"Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me." John 7:33

~~"My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. (16)Anyone who chooses to do His will will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.(17)Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18

St. Augustine explained that the doctrine belongs to Christ as Word, but not as man (see hypostatic Union above). You always have to remember the hypostatic union to understand Jesus.

"I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die." Deuteronomy 18:18-20

Jesus is prophet, priest and king due to his divine nature.

~~"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" 1 John 4:1-2

John 1:1-5

IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

~~"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now. Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he"ll guide you into all truth. He won't speak on his own accord, but he"ll speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me" John 16:12-14

Thanks for finishing off the Trinity with the Holy Spirit for me!
submission2theWillOfGod
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7/29/2015 9:26:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 8:13:26 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 7/29/2015 6:20:18 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:

~~" God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?" Numbers 23:19

This is comparing the actions of a perfect God with the actions of fallen humanity. It is prior to the incarnation and not a discussion on the Trinity.

but didn't Jesus pray? isn't he mentioned throughout the bible as [a man] and [the son of man.]


~~" Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know." Acts 2:22

Hypostatic Union - Jesus was fully man and fully God.

But if he was fully god then (god didn't have to do miracles through god - 2 gods?) also if he was fully god he didn't have to seek someone else's will?!


~~"Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone. " Mark 10:18

Very Jewish in what He is saying isn't it. He doesn't deny that he is Good. He is indirectly telling them that he is God.

How is that? he could have complimented the man OR he could've even not said anything!! Jesus explicitly Instead rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.


~~"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? " Matthew 27:46

He was teaching that Psalm 22 referred to Him. It is also speculated by theologians that Christ permitted himself to experience the "dark night of the soul" so that he could suffer every type of anguish on the cross for us.

Doesn't make sense if he is god?!!


~~"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 5:30

If we go back to John 5:19:

Amen, amen, I say unto you: the Son cannot do any thing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner.

The Trinity acts in concert with all wills acting together and never separately.

~~"Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me." John 7:33

~~"My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. (16)Anyone who chooses to do His will will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.(17)Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18

St. Augustine explained that the doctrine belongs to Christ as Word, but not as man (see hypostatic Union above). You always have to remember the hypostatic union to understand Jesus.

~~"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now. Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he"ll guide you into all truth. He won't speak on his own accord, but he"ll speak whatever he hears and will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me" John 16:12-14

Thanks for finishing off the Trinity with the Holy Spirit for me!

but the spirit here could also mean a prophet as you see in (John 4:1-2)
--->there are many number of spirit mentioned in the bible more than 30 times and they all don't refer to the holy spirit (like in [Luke 13:10-17], [Acts 16:16], [Hosea 4:12], [2 Timothy 1:7], [Eph. 2:2], ......)

are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members? Even though they have different wills ("I do not seek my own will"), do they obey without question the others" commands ("the will of Him who sent me")? Jesus admits to subordinating his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will? [Since Jesus was subordinate to God, he was not God.]

----->Jesus grew in wisdom, but God is all wise:

"Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite." Psalms 147:5

"And Jesus increased in wisdom." Luke 2:52

----->God does not need to learn, but Jesus learned.

"Although he was a son, he learned obedience"" Heb. 5:8

----->The Bible says that Jesus had limited knowledge, but god"s knowledge is infinite

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32

Also "Lord" is used in many ways in the Bible, and others beside God and Jesus are called "Lord." For example:

1) property owners (Matt. 20:8)

2) heads of households (Mark 13:35)

3) slave owners (Matt. 10:24)

4) husbands (1 Pet. 3:6)

5) a son called his father Lord (Matt. 21:30)

6) the Roman Emperor was called Lord (Acts 25:26)

7) Roman authorities were called Lord (Matt. 27:63)

Furthermore:
"How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?" Job 25:4-6

(Luke 2:21) god was circumcised??

I am really sorry if i come up as rude but i don't know what other way i can say this
lotsoffun
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7/29/2015 11:14:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus is no more God than any of us. We are all aspects of God or the greater consciousness or the Creator, what have you. This is what he was trying to teach us. To paraphrase, he said "All these things I do you shall do even greater". He was trying to get us to see our own divinity and understand our true power in oneness. He was the personification of the Christ Consciousness, something we all have within us. There is no separation from God. Duality is an illusion . The Catholic Church makes sure we don't discover this. They set themselves up as an intermediary. They are not needed.

Islam was only meant for Arabs, so they might worship one God. Mohammed was quite possibly a prophet, but he failed because he could not shake the violent tendencies of the Arab peoples. A great religious leader does not kill. Look at Jesus' words and actions which were peaceful. There is no comparison. None what so ever. The point is though, that Jesus and Mohammed, all of us, and even the dark forces are all from the same source. All have opportunity to reconnect with that source. What puts Jesus above all is that he knows who he is and lives the God Consciousness. Mohammed didn't and probably doesn't today as he probably reincarnates to the earth school to learn, just as the rest of us do.
Juan_Pablo
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7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
Juan_Pablo
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7/29/2015 11:47:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Like their creator, the prophets and God's children are learning how to survive and survive meaningful in a universe as dangerous as ours. That means creator and creation are both learning as they go along.
lotsoffun
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7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.
lotsoffun
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7/30/2015 12:38:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 11:47:22 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Like their creator, the prophets and God's children are learning how to survive and survive meaningful in a universe as dangerous as ours. That means creator and creation are both learning as they go along.

How could the creator be learning to survive in its own creation? As for Jesus, he had to discover his divinity as he grew in that one life. We are trying to discover ours during many lives. Jesus understood his oneness with the Creator. We live in the illusion of duality.
Juan_Pablo
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7/30/2015 11:56:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.

lotsoffun, I know that the concept of violence seems absurd to individuals brought-up in Christian environments, where violence is perceived to be an exclusively evil act. But if you live in the United States (actually, any country), you have to respect the role that a military plays. The military uses violence against forces that threaten the stability and integrity of our nation.

Would you not use violence against someone who threatened the lives of you or your family if you new it was the only way to save them?

I definitely support the concept of peace--we need more of it in our day in age! But righteous warfare--jihad--does have a place.

Jihad as the militant fanatical terrorists use it is not justified. But Jihad does have a place in our world, but only within the strict boundaries of the international rules of war and military conflict.
lotsoffun
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7/31/2015 12:40:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 11:56:36 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.

lotsoffun, I know that the concept of violence seems absurd to individuals brought-up in Christian environments, where violence is perceived to be an exclusively evil act. But if you live in the United States (actually, any country), you have to respect the role that a military plays. The military uses violence against forces that threaten the stability and integrity of our nation.

Would you not use violence against someone who threatened the lives of you or your family if you new it was the only way to save them?

I definitely support the concept of peace--we need more of it in our day in age! But righteous warfare--jihad--does have a place.

Jihad as the militant fanatical terrorists use it is not justified. But Jihad does have a place in our world, but only within the strict boundaries of the international rules of war and military conflict.

I would use instinctive violence against someone who used it against me. Most people would, some would cower and few would not do anything. The point about Islam is I keep hearing from Muslims - "Islam means peace" I keep hearing the talk about violence only having been used in self defence. The consciousness of Islam as a whole is behind the other religions. Mohammed apparently preached peace but committed violence - yes some in self defence but also aggression. He ordered the heads cut off of 800 Jews at Medina, and enslaved the women and children. He was a hypocrite to the max. Jesus lived his teachings. "Love thyne enemy" His consciousness is at a level Mohammed didn't achieve. He was a true example. Now of course the world is a violent place and armies are necessary for protection. I can fully agree with that. What jesus did was introduce a new concept, a new way of being. It is called the "Christ Consciousness" or the "God Consciousness" . What that is, is living our oneness with creation. We live in an illusion of duality- good and evil. We are trapped in this illusion. No Abrahamic religion will take us out of this. Answers are found within. Jesus was trying to teach this. Could you imagine a world where we all loved each other, where there is no need for police or armies or excessive ego because we live the God Consciousness. This was Jesus' message. "The kingdom of God is within". Christianity perverted his teachings and Islam started off on the wrong foot and never recovered. We are a violent species and Islam is a perfect tool for the large minority to spread rage and control over others.
submission2theWillOfGod
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7/31/2015 1:38:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 12:40:11 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/30/2015 11:56:36 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.

lotsoffun, I know that the concept of violence seems absurd to individuals brought-up in Christian environments, where violence is perceived to be an exclusively evil act. But if you live in the United States (actually, any country), you have to respect the role that a military plays. The military uses violence against forces that threaten the stability and integrity of our nation.

Would you not use violence against someone who threatened the lives of you or your family if you new it was the only way to save them?

I definitely support the concept of peace--we need more of it in our day in age! But righteous warfare--jihad--does have a place.

Jihad as the militant fanatical terrorists use it is not justified. But Jihad does have a place in our world, but only within the strict boundaries of the international rules of war and military conflict.

I would use instinctive violence against someone who used it against me. Most people would, some would cower and few would not do anything. The point about Islam is I keep hearing from Muslims - "Islam means peace" I keep hearing the talk about violence only having been used in self defence. The consciousness of Islam as a whole is behind the other religions. Mohammed apparently preached peace but committed violence - yes some in self defence but also aggression. He ordered the heads cut off of 800 Jews at Medina, and enslaved the women and children. He was a hypocrite to the max. Jesus lived his teachings. "Love thyne enemy" His consciousness is at a level Mohammed didn't achieve. He was a true example. Now of course the world is a violent place and armies are necessary for protection. I can fully agree with that. What jesus did was introduce a new concept, a new way of being. It is called the "Christ Consciousness" or the "God Consciousness" . What that is, is living our oneness with creation. We live in an illusion of duality- good and evil. We are trapped in this illusion. No Abrahamic religion will take us out of this. Answers are found within. Jesus was trying to teach this. Could you imagine a world where we all loved each other, where there is no need for police or armies or excessive ego because we live the God Consciousness. This was Jesus' message. "The kingdom of God is within". Christianity perverted his teachings and Islam started off on the wrong foot and never recovered. We are a violent species and Islam is a perfect tool for the large minority to spread rage and control over others.

Sure you can make things up or go to some shady website and get whatever info you'd like to believe but that doesn't make it true.
whatever info you get double check the context and when and at what occasion was the verse and chapter revealed
Muslims can never break this rule if they broke this role they no Muslims:
(Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors) 2:190

(Say(O Muhammad): O ye that reject Faith! (1) I worship not that which ye worship, (2) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (3) And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) To you be your Way, and to me mine.) -109

(Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.) 2:256

(If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!) 10:99

"God Consciousness"?? "Christ Consciousness"!!? Nope Jesus did not introduce that concept you did :)
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/31/2015 1:58:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not all of the prophets were totally non-violent. Self defense and preservation is not disallowed.

Mohammed was not a violent man, and any serious study of his life will reveal that he bent over backwards for peace. Mohammed and the first Muslims were persecuted, violently beaten, and murdered for 10 years for their belief in The One God. They l left town, settled somewhere else, and they were hunted! It was only after this did the Muslims fight defensively. Mohammed was a man of peace. If you look at the life of Mohammed, he was very clearly a good man, and the Qur'an is a scripture worth preserving, studying, and respecting as divine.

Mohammed very clearly was a prophet.

I tell you the truth, the New Testament and the Qur'an are very complimentary.

The Qur'an addresses a very real heresy in Christendom of worshiping man as God. The epistles actually seem like they do this, but if you understand what they are saying, they really don't. Every apostasy the church ever fell into has been preserved and prophesied of in The New Testament.

To better understand the "son of God" phenomena and how it relates to Christianity and Judaism, read the epistle of Hebrews, and look up every Old Testament scripture that it references. Read these references in full context. Aha!!

The New Testament and The Qur'an are very complimentary though. If you understand one, you will understand the other. A good Christian would be a Muslim. A good Muslim would be a Christian.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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7/31/2015 3:39:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 1:38:12 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 12:40:11 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/30/2015 11:56:36 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.

lotsoffun, I know that the concept of violence seems absurd to individuals brought-up in Christian environments, where violence is perceived to be an exclusively evil act. But if you live in the United States (actually, any country), you have to respect the role that a military plays. The military uses violence against forces that threaten the stability and integrity of our nation.

Would you not use violence against someone who threatened the lives of you or your family if you new it was the only way to save them?

I definitely support the concept of peace--we need more of it in our day in age! But righteous warfare--jihad--does have a place.

Jihad as the militant fanatical terrorists use it is not justified. But Jihad does have a place in our world, but only within the strict boundaries of the international rules of war and military conflict.

I would use instinctive violence against someone who used it against me. Most people would, some would cower and few would not do anything. The point about Islam is I keep hearing from Muslims - "Islam means peace" I keep hearing the talk about violence only having been used in self defence. The consciousness of Islam as a whole is behind the other religions. Mohammed apparently preached peace but committed violence - yes some in self defence but also aggression. He ordered the heads cut off of 800 Jews at Medina, and enslaved the women and children. He was a hypocrite to the max. Jesus lived his teachings. "Love thyne enemy" His consciousness is at a level Mohammed didn't achieve. He was a true example. Now of course the world is a violent place and armies are necessary for protection. I can fully agree with that. What jesus did was introduce a new concept, a new way of being. It is called the "Christ Consciousness" or the "God Consciousness" . What that is, is living our oneness with creation. We live in an illusion of duality- good and evil. We are trapped in this illusion. No Abrahamic religion will take us out of this. Answers are found within. Jesus was trying to teach this. Could you imagine a world where we all loved each other, where there is no need for police or armies or excessive ego because we live the God Consciousness. This was Jesus' message. "The kingdom of God is within". Christianity perverted his teachings and Islam started off on the wrong foot and never recovered. We are a violent species and Islam is a perfect tool for the large minority to spread rage and control over others.

Sure you can make things up or go to some shady website and get whatever info you'd like to believe but that doesn't make it true.
whatever info you get double check the context and when and at what occasion was the verse and chapter revealed
Muslims can never break this rule if they broke this role they no Muslims:
(Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors) 2:190

(Say(O Muhammad): O ye that reject Faith! (1) I worship not that which ye worship, (2) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (3) And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) To you be your Way, and to me mine.) -109

(Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.) 2:256

(If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!) 10:99

"God Consciousness"?? "Christ Consciousness"!!? Nope Jesus did not introduce that concept you did :)

Nothing is made up. People come to beliefs in life after studying, learning and listening. Listen to your inner voice. All answers are there. Of course the more you learn the more you know you don't know. If you like to recite the Koran maybe you feel it has the definitive answers for you. That's ok, but others find many sources of information. It's a matter of discernment. I did not introduce the Christ Consciousness concept. Just because you don't find it in your sources doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Koran will not give you all the answers.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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7/31/2015 8:39:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:39:32 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
Nothing is made up. People come to beliefs in life after studying, learning and listening. Listen to your inner voice. All answers are there. Of course the more you learn the more you know you don't know. If you like to recite the Koran maybe you feel it has the definitive answers for you. That's ok, but others find many sources of information. It's a matter of discernment. I did not introduce the Christ Consciousness concept. Just because you don't find it in your sources doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Koran will not give you all the answers.

That's ok, but others find many sources of information. It's a matter of discernment.

Thus I neither see any content, nor a point of any contention, here.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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7/31/2015 9:13:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 12:40:11 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/30/2015 11:56:36 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 7/30/2015 12:34:15 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!

Jesus didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. The Buddha didn't partake in violence. Mohammed did. That says a lot to me.

lotsoffun, I know that the concept of violence seems absurd to individuals brought-up in Christian environments, where violence is perceived to be an exclusively evil act. But if you live in the United States (actually, any country), you have to respect the role that a military plays. The military uses violence against forces that threaten the stability and integrity of our nation.

Would you not use violence against someone who threatened the lives of you or your family if you new it was the only way to save them?

I definitely support the concept of peace--we need more of it in our day in age! But righteous warfare--jihad--does have a place.

Jihad as the militant fanatical terrorists use it is not justified. But Jihad does have a place in our world, but only within the strict boundaries of the international rules of war and military conflict.

Juan pablo raised very directed point of respected military needs. But you just detracted that so vainly.
I would use instinctive violence against someone who used it against me. Most people would, some would cower and few would not do anything. The point about Islam is I keep hearing from Muslims - "Islam means peace" I keep hearing the talk about violence only having been used in self defence. The consciousness of Islam as a whole is behind the other religions. Mohammed apparently preached peace but committed violence - yes some in self defence but also aggression.
Can you understand the role of definitions? You can't name the defense to be violence.
He ordered the heads cut off of 800 Jews at Medina, and enslaved the women and children.
And Jews used to come to him, to get the justice, against his own people [Muslims]? Jews & others enjoyed all the civil rights of filing a case in a Muslim court against a Muslim, & a Muslim judge had been punishing a Muslim to award the safety & justice to Jews? More you dig into history, more you get to know, you know very less.
Jesus lived his teachings. "Love thyne enemy" His consciousness is at a level Mohammed didn't achieve. He was a true example. Now of course the world is a violent place and armies are necessary for protection. I can fully agree with that.
No, violence in world is not invention of today's era, it's quite rational to conclude that violence had been presented from very start. Thus if armies are necessary now a days, then it had been necessary before too.
What jesus did was introduce a new concept, a new way of being. It is called the "Christ Consciousness" or the "God Consciousness" . What that is, is living our oneness with creation. We live in an illusion of duality- good and evil. We are trapped in this illusion. No Abrahamic religion will take us out of this. Answers are found within. Jesus was trying to teach this.

Could you imagine a world where we all loved each other, where there is no need for police or armies or excessive ego because we live the God Consciousness. This was Jesus' message. "The kingdom of God is within".
But you have agreed that now world is violent & armies are necessary, what's the link of "all love, no army" philosophy here? That means, your idea is impractical? Or you're unable to actualize what you perceive to be done. Isn't it contradictory?
Christianity perverted his teachings and Islam started off on the wrong foot and never recovered. We are a violent species and Islam is a perfect tool for the large minority to spread rage and control over others.
Personal opinions don't constitute a point of discussion.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..
submission2theWillOfGod
Posts: 6
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7/31/2015 10:34:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..

"Allah" means the one and only god and it existed way before Islam(submission to the will of god) you can see it in the Arabic Bible and in the old testament in Aramaic "Elah" and in Hebrew "Eloah" = "allah" , "elohim" = "allahom"
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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7/31/2015 12:09:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 10:34:52 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..

"Allah" means the one and only god and it existed way before Islam(submission to the will of god) you can see it in the Arabic Bible and in the old testament in Aramaic "Elah" and in Hebrew "Eloah" = "allah" , "elohim" = "allahom"

the bible is clear that Jesus is called the son of God...

allah says he has no son...

clear difference ..
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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7/31/2015 2:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I recommend reading the New Testament epistle "Hebrews", and looking back to every Old Testament reference it makes. This sheds light to the proper and truthful meaning of "son of God" that makes no blasphemy.

When misunderstood, the "son of God" concept becomes a form of idolatry. When understood, it sheds light to the nature of man's relationship with God in a way that makes clearer the distinction between what we see, and what is truly going on. The revelation abolishes every idol.

The Qur'an speaks of a very real apostasy from The True Faith, which is manifest in religion.

But how foolish one is if they think that because they practice a purer form of religion, that means that they themselves are not guilty of idolatry! On the day of judgement, all will be humbled before God, who will show everyone where it is they differ. Thank God for our undeserved mercies!

The Qur'an can be very complimentary to The New Testament, and likewise, The New Testament can be very complimentary to the Qur'an. It must be understood that if you have the proper understanding, you will not see apostasy in the writings of the other. They both shed light to each other.

So Muslims! I encourage you to read The Bible, and witness for yourself the unity of the prophets, and respect that the Epistles are true to the faith, and written by those who believed.

Christians! I encourage you to read The Qur'an, and witness for yourself how it confirms the warnings of Epistles, and is legitimate testimony of Our God!

We are all on this planet together, and it is commanded to love your neighbor as yourself. We are all neighbors. Certainly, God has given us the choice to defend ourselves when attacked, but think about how patient God is with us. All have fallen short of the glory of God, but God is merciful and patient. As God has forgiven you countless times, so forgive others countless times. If you have been offended, sacrifice that offense if it gets in the way of peace. Likewise, if you see that what you do causes others to stumble, sacrifice that stumbling block if it gets in the way of peace. Tolerate those who do not practice these things in love, and trust that God is just, and reveals at will.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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7/31/2015 4:41:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 12:09:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 10:34:52 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..

"Allah" means the one and only god and it existed way before Islam(submission to the will of god) you can see it in the Arabic Bible and in the old testament in Aramaic "Elah" and in Hebrew "Eloah" = "allah" , "elohim" = "allahom"

the bible is clear that Jesus is called the son of God...

allah says he has no son...

clear difference ..

You realize that the Aramaic word for "God" is "Allah, and that "Allah" was used by Christians and Jews before Islam, right?

http://www.atour.com...

The bible also called multiple people "Son of God" (which can also be translated as "Servant of God").

6
"I said, "You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High."

Psalm 82:6

22 Then say to Pharaoh, "This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son,
Exodus 4:22

9
They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel"s father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

Jeremiah 31:9

7 I will proclaim the Lord"s decree:
He said to me, "You are my son;
today I have become your father.

Psalm 2:7

Are they all God?
Can you explain what makes Jesus God?

Your argument is 100% bible testimony. Can you explain how the bible, texts written by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, and edited by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, can represent any sort of credible testimony.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,096
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7/31/2015 4:48:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 4:41:12 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 7/31/2015 12:09:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 10:34:52 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..

"Allah" means the one and only god and it existed way before Islam(submission to the will of god) you can see it in the Arabic Bible and in the old testament in Aramaic "Elah" and in Hebrew "Eloah" = "allah" , "elohim" = "allahom"

the bible is clear that Jesus is called the son of God...

allah says he has no son...

clear difference ..

You realize that the Aramaic word for "God" is "Allah, and that "Allah" was used by Christians and Jews before Islam, right?

http://www.atour.com...

The bible also called multiple people "Son of God" (which can also be translated as "Servant of God").

6
"I said, "You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High."

Psalm 82:6

22 Then say to Pharaoh, "This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son,
Exodus 4:22

9
They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel"s father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

Jeremiah 31:9

7 I will proclaim the Lord"s decree:
He said to me, "You are my son;
today I have become your father.

Psalm 2:7

Are they all God?
Can you explain what makes Jesus God?

Your argument is 100% bible testimony. Can you explain how the bible, texts written by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, and edited by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, can represent any sort of credible testimony.

this is my on in whom I am well pleased was said about one person...

it is clearly Jesus..

yet allah has no son...
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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7/31/2015 4:53:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 4:48:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 4:41:12 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 7/31/2015 12:09:12 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 10:34:52 AM, submission2theWillOfGod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 9:47:06 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/29/2015 11:42:16 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
Muhammad and Jesus were both sons of God and prophets. But prophets are not infallible nor are their words entirely credible.

They should be respected and their words should be considered. But they are not infallible!!!
muhammed was never a son of God of the bible..

allah is not the same as God of the bible..

"Allah" means the one and only god and it existed way before Islam(submission to the will of god) you can see it in the Arabic Bible and in the old testament in Aramaic "Elah" and in Hebrew "Eloah" = "allah" , "elohim" = "allahom"

the bible is clear that Jesus is called the son of God...

allah says he has no son...

clear difference ..

You realize that the Aramaic word for "God" is "Allah, and that "Allah" was used by Christians and Jews before Islam, right?

http://www.atour.com...

The bible also called multiple people "Son of God" (which can also be translated as "Servant of God").

6
"I said, "You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High."

Psalm 82:6

22 Then say to Pharaoh, "This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son,
Exodus 4:22

9
They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel"s father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

Jeremiah 31:9

7 I will proclaim the Lord"s decree:
He said to me, "You are my son;
today I have become your father.

Psalm 2:7

Are they all God?
Can you explain what makes Jesus God?

Your argument is 100% bible testimony. Can you explain how the bible, texts written by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, and edited by unknown people, an unknown number of people, at unknown times, and unknown places, can represent any sort of credible testimony.

this is my on in whom I am well pleased was said about one person...

it is clearly Jesus..

yet allah has no son...

Can answer my question about the bible's credibiltiy please?

So Israel, Ephraim, and David are Jesus? Since when?

Can God have sons? How?