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The Fascination Of Evolution

RoderickSpode
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7/31/2015 6:50:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread is somewhat in response to janesix's thread called "Put on your party hats, creationists, you win".

I don't disagree with janesix, but I don't think the term win can really be applied to a controversy where evidence can go in either direction depending upon one's world view.

The problem (if one is attempting to disprove evolution), is that just like one might say God, and thus creation(ism) is part of a human psyche, evolution is part of a human psyche as well. Evolution, in broad terms, is fascinating.

Some examples:

Evolution of the automobile. From steam engines to the modern electric motor, the changes of the automobile grabs much attention for the car enthusiast. The fun of going to a car show is seeing the preserved and restored cars made throughout the decades. The real car enthusiast is not the consumer who is looking for the most trendy modern vehicle to purchase, but the one who takes interest, and if they can afford, purchase a classic vehicle as well as modern.

Evolution of professional sports. Another fascinating element of sports is it's history. The NFL, or MLB and similar institutions that have gone through many changes over the decades. Changes in city locations, color of jersey's, the various personalities (players, coaches, etc.). Because of these sports enthusiasts, major sports leagues like the NFL, MLB, and NBA incorporate retro uniforms so fans (the real fans) can get a glimpse of what their team looked like 20 or 30 years ago. The real sports enthusiast is not merely interested in sports related news in the now, but it's evolution up until now.

We can go on and on as I think the point has been made. Evolution in broad terms is fascinating, and part of a human psyche.

Why wouldn't the evolution of man, even if our historical records do not extend to man's origin, be any less fascinating?

Which concept will be more fascinating for someone interested in a more biological interest in human origin in terms of variety? For us creationists, we can be fascinated with the different human ethnic groups, their cultures, how some evolved from mixing with other ethnic groups, etc. But for us creationists, that's it.....

For evolutionists, they've got a whole legion of human prototypes that would make The Lord Of The Rings trilogy look like the See Spot Run book.

And to their credit, they doctored up a famous depiction of this type of evolution to avoid any appearance of it being a fairytale (which in my opinion, it is).

http://i.telegraph.co.uk...

Whereas Biblical depictions of Genesis have primarily been relegated to children's books.

https://electronicwarriorpoet.files.wordpress.com...

It seems in many cases, the belief in evolution is not merely a black and white "These are the facts as currently presented" with no preferential/biased attachment. If one looks at the number of comments made about Biblical creationism being a fairy tale, writings of ignorant goat-herders, etc., none of which should be mentioned in the strictest scientific sense (refusing to eliminate any possibility), there's a lot more to evolution than just plain facts that supposedly refute creationism. There's a tale being told that captures the mind's of many that places common ancestry in the same evolutionary category as automobiles, pro sports, etc.
graceofgod
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7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:50:23 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
This thread is somewhat in response to janesix's thread called "Put on your party hats, creationists, you win".

I don't disagree with janesix, but I don't think the term win can really be applied to a controversy where evidence can go in either direction depending upon one's world view.

The problem (if one is attempting to disprove evolution), is that just like one might say God, and thus creation(ism) is part of a human psyche, evolution is part of a human psyche as well. Evolution, in broad terms, is fascinating.

Some examples:

Evolution of the automobile. From steam engines to the modern electric motor, the changes of the automobile grabs much attention for the car enthusiast. The fun of going to a car show is seeing the preserved and restored cars made throughout the decades. The real car enthusiast is not the consumer who is looking for the most trendy modern vehicle to purchase, but the one who takes interest, and if they can afford, purchase a classic vehicle as well as modern.

Evolution of professional sports. Another fascinating element of sports is it's history. The NFL, or MLB and similar institutions that have gone through many changes over the decades. Changes in city locations, color of jersey's, the various personalities (players, coaches, etc.). Because of these sports enthusiasts, major sports leagues like the NFL, MLB, and NBA incorporate retro uniforms so fans (the real fans) can get a glimpse of what their team looked like 20 or 30 years ago. The real sports enthusiast is not merely interested in sports related news in the now, but it's evolution up until now.

We can go on and on as I think the point has been made. Evolution in broad terms is fascinating, and part of a human psyche.

Why wouldn't the evolution of man, even if our historical records do not extend to man's origin, be any less fascinating?

Which concept will be more fascinating for someone interested in a more biological interest in human origin in terms of variety? For us creationists, we can be fascinated with the different human ethnic groups, their cultures, how some evolved from mixing with other ethnic groups, etc. But for us creationists, that's it.....

For evolutionists, they've got a whole legion of human prototypes that would make The Lord Of The Rings trilogy look like the See Spot Run book.

And to their credit, they doctored up a famous depiction of this type of evolution to avoid any appearance of it being a fairytale (which in my opinion, it is).

http://i.telegraph.co.uk...

Whereas Biblical depictions of Genesis have primarily been relegated to children's books.

https://electronicwarriorpoet.files.wordpress.com...

It seems in many cases, the belief in evolution is not merely a black and white "These are the facts as currently presented" with no preferential/biased attachment. If one looks at the number of comments made about Biblical creationism being a fairy tale, writings of ignorant goat-herders, etc., none of which should be mentioned in the strictest scientific sense (refusing to eliminate any possibility), there's a lot more to evolution than just plain facts that supposedly refute creationism. There's a tale being told that captures the mind's of many that places common ancestry in the same evolutionary category as automobiles, pro sports, etc.

we see the word bandied about that is true but I think that is to help trick the minds in to accepting the notion and possibility..

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....
Chaosism
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7/31/2015 7:10:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Why is fear of God's existence so often attributed to atheists in this manner?
dhardage
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7/31/2015 8:45:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 7:10:39 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Why is fear of God's existence so often attributed to atheists in this manner?

Because theists need some excuse in their own minds for atheists to not believe in their deity since they cannot conceive of a universe without it. They attack anything that contradicts their baseless belief system like any animal defending itself since their deity exists in their minds and any attack on it is, ergo, a personal attack on them. They often deny facts, blame another supernatural entity (Satan and all his other nicknames) for 'fooling' people into believing in facts instead of in their particular mythology. They also claim that science is a hoax and all of those who support Evolution, for example, are part of some huge conspiracy against their god. It's institutionalized paranoia.
ecco
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7/31/2015 9:44:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

If evolution is false, then it would have been debunked by now - by scientists. The Steady-State Universe was accepted until research with better equipment debunked it (well, showed it to be wrong) and the concept of an expanding universe was accepted.

Theology did not debunk the Steady-State universe and theology cannot debunk evolution. Of course that doesn't stop it from trying, over and over and over and over.

RE: The "fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"...."

Yes indeed. I would truly fear a world where people again believe that god...
causes volcanoes to erupt
causes lightning
causes hurricanes

That would be scary!
Think
graceofgod
Posts: 5,027
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7/31/2015 9:47:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 7:10:39 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Why is fear of God's existence so often attributed to atheists in this manner?

who mentioned fear, I didn't...

I merely stated it would leave the conclusion that God must have done it and that would not be a popular conclusion...
Aran55633
Posts: 109
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8/1/2015 2:54:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:23:50 AM, Alpha3141 wrote:
Actually, evolution has been disproven

No it hasn't. It is a scientific fact that species are not immutable.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/1/2015 4:22:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 8:45:38 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 7/31/2015 7:10:39 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Why is fear of God's existence so often attributed to atheists in this manner?

Because theists need some excuse in their own minds for atheists to not believe in their deity since they cannot conceive of a universe without it. They attack anything that contradicts their baseless belief system like any animal defending itself since their deity exists in their minds and any attack on it is, ergo, a personal attack on them. They often deny facts, blame another supernatural entity (Satan and all his other nicknames) for 'fooling' people into believing in facts instead of in their particular mythology. They also claim that science is a hoax and all of those who support Evolution, for example, are part of some huge conspiracy against their god. It's institutionalized paranoia.

THIS
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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8/1/2015 4:24:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 9:47:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 7/31/2015 7:10:39 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Why is fear of God's existence so often attributed to atheists in this manner?

who mentioned fear, I didn't...
Ya say what?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,082
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8/1/2015 6:01:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:50:23 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
This thread is somewhat in response to janesix's thread called "Put on your party hats, creationists, you win".

I don't disagree with janesix, but I don't think the term win can really be applied to a controversy where evidence can go in either direction depending upon one's world view.

The problem (if one is attempting to disprove evolution), is that just like one might say God, and thus creation(ism) is part of a human psyche, evolution is part of a human psyche as well. Evolution, in broad terms, is fascinating.

Some examples:

Evolution of the automobile. From steam engines to the modern electric motor, the changes of the automobile grabs much attention for the car enthusiast. The fun of going to a car show is seeing the preserved and restored cars made throughout the decades. The real car enthusiast is not the consumer who is looking for the most trendy modern vehicle to purchase, but the one who takes interest, and if they can afford, purchase a classic vehicle as well as modern.

Evolution of professional sports. Another fascinating element of sports is it's history. The NFL, or MLB and similar institutions that have gone through many changes over the decades. Changes in city locations, color of jersey's, the various personalities (players, coaches, etc.). Because of these sports enthusiasts, major sports leagues like the NFL, MLB, and NBA incorporate retro uniforms so fans (the real fans) can get a glimpse of what their team looked like 20 or 30 years ago. The real sports enthusiast is not merely interested in sports related news in the now, but it's evolution up until now.

We can go on and on as I think the point has been made. Evolution in broad terms is fascinating, and part of a human psyche.

Why wouldn't the evolution of man, even if our historical records do not extend to man's origin, be any less fascinating?

Which concept will be more fascinating for someone interested in a more biological interest in human origin in terms of variety? For us creationists, we can be fascinated with the different human ethnic groups, their cultures, how some evolved from mixing with other ethnic groups, etc. But for us creationists, that's it.....

For evolutionists, they've got a whole legion of human prototypes that would make The Lord Of The Rings trilogy look like the See Spot Run book.

And to their credit, they doctored up a famous depiction of this type of evolution to avoid any appearance of it being a fairytale (which in my opinion, it is).

http://i.telegraph.co.uk...

Whereas Biblical depictions of Genesis have primarily been relegated to children's books.

https://electronicwarriorpoet.files.wordpress.com...

It seems in many cases, the belief in evolution is not merely a black and white "These are the facts as currently presented" with no preferential/biased attachment. If one looks at the number of comments made about Biblical creationism being a fairy tale, writings of ignorant goat-herders, etc., none of which should be mentioned in the strictest scientific sense (refusing to eliminate any possibility), there's a lot more to evolution than just plain facts that supposedly refute creationism. There's a tale being told that captures the mind's of many that places common ancestry in the same evolutionary category as automobiles, pro sports, etc.

I find these types of posts (by what I consider to be more or less intelligent people) to be alarming. I have two points:
1. If you really wanted to challenge evolution, then you would take this to the science forum.
2. Creationism is not evidentially backed, while evolution is. By evidence, I mean facts that would lead us to a proposition being a more probable than other options. The two are not even in the same ballpark. It's like comparing homeopathy to modern medicines or dowsers to geologists. If you want to accept a belief based on little or no evidence, hey, more power to you, but don't knock what is (without equal) successful and productive.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ecco
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8/1/2015 12:49:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:23:50 AM, Alpha3141 wrote:
Actually, evolution has been disproven

Care to elaborate?
Think
Bennett91
Posts: 4,193
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8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.
graceofgod
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8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....
Bennett91
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8/1/2015 1:43:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

We actually do have examples of speciation, natural and artificially selected. I'm on a mobile so I can't link, but if speciation isn't a thing then how do u explain how humans have selectivly breed crops and farm animals into new species via domestication?

Also what is a "kind".
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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8/1/2015 1:48:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

So, just to clarify, only what we see here and now is evidence of anything.

So, of course, God.

The logic is irrefutable. -eyeroll-
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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graceofgod
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8/1/2015 1:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:43:56 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

We actually do have examples of speciation, natural and artificially selected. I'm on a mobile so I can't link, but if speciation isn't a thing then how do u explain how humans have selectivly breed crops and farm animals into new species via domestication?

Also what is a "kind".

there is no change of species from one to another...

if humans do it it is intelligent design not natural evolution..lol
DanneJeRusse
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8/1/2015 1:50:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:50:23 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
This thread is somewhat in response to janesix's thread called "Put on your party hats, creationists, you win".

I don't disagree with janesix, but I don't think the term win can really be applied to a controversy where evidence can go in either direction depending upon one's world view.

Perhaps, but that is not how science works, it does not discriminate for or against "one's world view", but instead shows us reality regardless of one's worldview. If one's world view is biased, then they will believe whatever they want and will ignore the evidence in favor of their bias.

The problem (if one is attempting to disprove evolution), is that just like one might say God, and thus creation(ism) is part of a human psyche, evolution is part of a human psyche as well. Evolution, in broad terms, is fascinating.

Some examples:

Evolution of the automobile. From steam engines to the modern electric motor, the changes of the automobile grabs much attention for the car enthusiast. The fun of going to a car show is seeing the preserved and restored cars made throughout the decades. The real car enthusiast is not the consumer who is looking for the most trendy modern vehicle to purchase, but the one who takes interest, and if they can afford, purchase a classic vehicle as well as modern.

Evolution of professional sports. Another fascinating element of sports is it's history. The NFL, or MLB and similar institutions that have gone through many changes over the decades. Changes in city locations, color of jersey's, the various personalities (players, coaches, etc.). Because of these sports enthusiasts, major sports leagues like the NFL, MLB, and NBA incorporate retro uniforms so fans (the real fans) can get a glimpse of what their team looked like 20 or 30 years ago. The real sports enthusiast is not merely interested in sports related news in the now, but it's evolution up until now.

We can go on and on as I think the point has been made. Evolution in broad terms is fascinating, and part of a human psyche.

Why wouldn't the evolution of man, even if our historical records do not extend to man's origin, be any less fascinating?

Which concept will be more fascinating for someone interested in a more biological interest in human origin in terms of variety? For us creationists, we can be fascinated with the different human ethnic groups, their cultures, how some evolved from mixing with other ethnic groups, etc. But for us creationists, that's it.....

Yes, that is the bias I mentioned above, creationists are biased and they ignore or just outright deny the evidence of evolution, often because they don't understand it.

For evolutionists, they've got a whole legion of human prototypes that would make The Lord Of The Rings trilogy look like the See Spot Run book.

And to their credit, they doctored up a famous depiction of this type of evolution to avoid any appearance of it being a fairytale (which in my opinion, it is).

Ah, so you too admit to denying evolution without understanding it, typical dishonesty.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk...

Whereas Biblical depictions of Genesis have primarily been relegated to children's books.

Yes, that;s because religion is for the childish mind that has yet to grow up and accept being an adult.

https://electronicwarriorpoet.files.wordpress.com...

It seems in many cases, the belief in evolution is not merely a black and white "These are the facts as currently presented" with no preferential/biased attachment. If one looks at the number of comments made about Biblical creationism being a fairy tale, writings of ignorant goat-herders, etc., none of which should be mentioned in the strictest scientific sense (refusing to eliminate any possibility), there's a lot more to evolution than just plain facts that supposedly refute creationism. There's a tale being told that captures the mind's of many that places common ancestry in the same evolutionary category as automobiles, pro sports, etc.

Evolution does not refute creationism as it has nothing to do with religious fairy tales written by ignorant goat-herders. Evolution is science.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
graceofgod
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8/1/2015 1:51:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:48:50 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

So, just to clarify, only what we see here and now is evidence of anything.

So, of course, God.

The logic is irrefutable. -eyeroll-

well that is what science claims isn't it, so if it sets that standard for God should it not be set for itself...

rolls eyes back, you might need those...lol
FaustianJustice
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8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

So, just to clarify, only what we see here and now is evidence of anything.

So, of course, God.

The logic is irrefutable. -eyeroll-

well that is what science claims isn't it, so if it sets that standard for God should it not be set for itself...

rolls eyes back, you might need those...lol

The best part is that you have no clue as to what you stated. Here, lets walk through it again. Remember, words mean things:

"the fact that we never see -insert thing here- proves it does not -insert thing here tied to existence-"

This means what you don't see doesn't exist, right? Aside from how chalk full of weapon's grade ignorance that statement is, without saying "What other explanation could there be?" what do you see here and now that points to a God, any God, much less a God of your description?

Secondly, when you state "we never see it..." you are so dead wrong it pains me to have to tell you that. Its how strains of cancer become resistant to drugs, its why Monsanto has to sue the tar out of farmers whom seed from their crops, all this is known as "speciation", and it is what gives rise from one different specie to another; enough members of the subset have created stable and separate specie from their progenating lines. Going back to your "proof", again, without stating "God Did it!" because we have not seen a God around here, much less spontaneous strains of new animals spring up from literal void, what have you seen on the matter of an omnipotent spiritual being?

Please, try to be intellectually honest.
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Bennett91
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8/1/2015 2:13:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:50:18 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:43:56 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

We actually do have examples of speciation, natural and artificially selected. I'm on a mobile so I can't link, but if speciation isn't a thing then how do u explain how humans have selectivly breed crops and farm animals into new species via domestication?

Also what is a "kind".

there is no change of species from one to another...

if humans do it it is intelligent design not natural evolution..lol

Only now with current gene manipulation technology can we " design" a new species. You accept that human hands can make creatures evolve (via ancient husbandry) yet you can't even comprehend the idea that your God made humans EVOLVE. I'm not even going to bother explaining to you how nature produces natural selection just as well as a farmer. Truly a pity how you purposefully refuse to connect the dots.
graceofgod
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8/1/2015 2:27:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

So, just to clarify, only what we see here and now is evidence of anything.

So, of course, God.

The logic is irrefutable. -eyeroll-

well that is what science claims isn't it, so if it sets that standard for God should it not be set for itself...

rolls eyes back, you might need those...lol

The best part is that you have no clue as to what you stated. Here, lets walk through it again. Remember, words mean things:

"the fact that we never see -insert thing here- proves it does not -insert thing here tied to existence-"

This means what you don't see doesn't exist, right? Aside from how chalk full of weapon's grade ignorance that statement is, without saying "What other explanation could there be?" what do you see here and now that points to a God, any God, much less a God of your description?

Secondly, when you state "we never see it..." you are so dead wrong it pains me to have to tell you that. Its how strains of cancer become resistant to drugs, its why Monsanto has to sue the tar out of farmers whom seed from their crops, all this is known as "speciation", and it is what gives rise from one different specie to another; enough members of the subset have created stable and separate specie from their progenating lines. Going back to your "proof", again, without stating "God Did it!" because we have not seen a God around here, much less spontaneous strains of new animals spring up from literal void, what have you seen on the matter of an omnipotent spiritual being?

Please, try to be intellectually honest.

lol that is not evolution is it, there is no change of species as evolution claims...

a cell that becomes resistant to drugs is the same cell but resistant to drugs, it has not become a totally different cell...

why do we not see creatures in transition??

we seem to see that creatures can adapt but within set parameters...which again is not evolution...
DanneJeRusse
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8/1/2015 2:31:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 1:34:47 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 1:31:05 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

Yes, you're showing us that you're a prime example of a creationist who doesn't understand evolution, but just outright denies it for no reason.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Bennett91
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8/1/2015 2:31:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

Please, try to be intellectually honest.

I've been telling a few people this, especially BenShapiro; this is the religion forum. Things like logic, intellectual honesty, unbiased interpretations, operating w/o preconclusions etc have no place here. Especially when it comes to examining supernatural claims. No the answer to all things starts and ends with one word, God.
graceofgod
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8/1/2015 2:35:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:31:29 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

Please, try to be intellectually honest.

I've been telling a few people this, especially BenShapiro; this is the religion forum. Things like logic, intellectual honesty, unbiased interpretations, operating w/o preconclusions etc have no place here. Especially when it comes to examining supernatural claims. No the answer to all things starts and ends with one word, God.

and the end word for all the evolution believers is, in time we will see it..lol and continue to blindly follow the religion of evolution...lol
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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8/1/2015 2:40:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 6:54:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:


we see the word bandied about that is true but I think that is to help trick the minds in to accepting the notion and possibility..

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

I think quite a bit is invested in evolution. There's a lot of interest involved. It's not going to go easily as it's become sort of a humanistic symbol akin to a nationalistic symbol. In the nation of humanism, to defy evolution is unpatriotic.

Whatever problems evolution has, or is exposed, is countered by the atheist's own God of the gap theory, which is One day science will solve this problem. It at least appears less passive than God did it.
FaustianJustice
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8/1/2015 2:41:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:27:45 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

once it is applied to real life evolution falls flat on it's face, it should stand debunked by now but evolution keeps evolving I believe out of fear of having to say the alternative is "God did it"....

Ahahahaha wow I love it. Evolution falls on its face in real life, except the OP disproves that with his examples of non-biological evolution. And if evolution fails then how does evolution evolve? What I really like is the end, "God did it" you have no intellectual, philosophical, scientific or moral credibilty if you think you can just toss out that old God of the gaps line and expect to be taken seriously.

lol evolution evolves in the same way every thing that moves on and improves is labelled evolving.. it saves it from standing disproven, which will never happen for the science community....

the fact we never see evolution from one species to another proves it does not happen....

So, just to clarify, only what we see here and now is evidence of anything.

So, of course, God.

The logic is irrefutable. -eyeroll-

well that is what science claims isn't it, so if it sets that standard for God should it not be set for itself...

rolls eyes back, you might need those...lol

The best part is that you have no clue as to what you stated. Here, lets walk through it again. Remember, words mean things:

"the fact that we never see -insert thing here- proves it does not -insert thing here tied to existence-"

This means what you don't see doesn't exist, right? Aside from how chalk full of weapon's grade ignorance that statement is, without saying "What other explanation could there be?" what do you see here and now that points to a God, any God, much less a God of your description?

Secondly, when you state "we never see it..." you are so dead wrong it pains me to have to tell you that. Its how strains of cancer become resistant to drugs, its why Monsanto has to sue the tar out of farmers whom seed from their crops, all this is known as "speciation", and it is what gives rise from one different specie to another; enough members of the subset have created stable and separate specie from their progenating lines. Going back to your "proof", again, without stating "God Did it!" because we have not seen a God around here, much less spontaneous strains of new animals spring up from literal void, what have you seen on the matter of an omnipotent spiritual being?

Please, try to be intellectually honest.

lol that is not evolution is it, there is no change of species as evolution claims...

Um, yes, yes it is. Round up resistant crops Monsanto creates don't flower. They patented that specie of Herbicidal resistant food crops. The pollen, however, blows next door into another farmers patch. The herbicidal resistant trait pollenates the non resistant. Portions of the next crop not only flower, but also are resistant, as well as whatever other special traits that farmer has cultured across his patch. This gives rise to not only a lawsuit, but a divergent specie of crop.

a cell that becomes resistant to drugs is the same cell but resistant to drugs, it has not become a totally different cell...

This is really showing your ignorance of evolution more than your ability to rebut it.

why do we not see creatures in transition??

What makes you think you aren't? There isn't a finish line. There is no master blue print that things are striving to become. Everything is ALWAYS in transition, that is sort of the point. How many branches of "homo" are there before "sapiens"? You don't consider that giving rise to another specie?

we seem to see that creatures can adapt but within set parameters...which again is not evolution...

And we don't see God, so...

We see creatures that adapt for as long as we continue to see them. A brief 75 year attention span is nothing, not to mention we don't see all members of that specie at all times in all places. The best we get is an aftermath. You are asking for millions of years to transpire in the span of an infomercial to justify your skepticism, but swallowing down with literally NO demand for evidence that an entity that has never been seen, heard, felt or meaningfully quantified in any way conjured up all of existence from void via sheer will. Said entity is also exempt from time and space and any other rule of reality we can perceive. Said entity is also given the title of having created the rules, even though, again, no such witnessing of such (which, might I remind you, is the bench mark you set) has transpired.

So, please, do go on about how what we "never see" is proof of something not happening.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,370
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8/1/2015 2:49:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 6:01:37 AM, Skepticalone wrote:


I find these types of posts (by what I consider to be more or less intelligent people) to be alarming. I have two points:
1. If you really wanted to challenge evolution, then you would take this to the science forum.

This post is not a direct challenge to evolution. It's a critique of what I feel is a biased stance for various reasons including:

1. The assumption that either there is no God/creator (some evolutionists do make this claim), or God/creator doesn't interact with humans.

2. It's intellectually preferable to a theme where limitation of man's knowledge is suggested (Ex nihilo).

Neither of these 2 biases are sufficient grounds to claiming evolution is fact.

2. Creationism is not evidentially backed, while evolution is. By evidence, I mean facts that would lead us to a proposition being a more probable than other options. The two are not even in the same ballpark. It's like comparing homeopathy to modern medicines or dowsers to geologists. If you want to accept a belief based on little or no evidence, hey, more power to you, but don't knock what is (without equal) successful and productive.
I'm assuming you mean that there's no scientific evidence of God (an intelligent designer). Is that correct?
Bennett91
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8/1/2015 2:52:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:35:41 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/1/2015 2:31:29 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 8/1/2015 2:02:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

Please, try to be intellectually honest.

I've been telling a few people this, especially BenShapiro; this is the religion forum. Things like logic, intellectual honesty, unbiased interpretations, operating w/o preconclusions etc have no place here. Especially when it comes to examining supernatural claims. No the answer to all things starts and ends with one word, God.

and the end word for all the evolution believers is, in time we will see it..lol and continue to blindly follow the religion of evolution...lol

Except for all the talk about genetics, speciation and natural selection ... But hey you want to believe evolution is a religion? That evolutionists like the current Pope pay tithes to the church of science, gather and sing songs about evolution and make supernatural/unverifiable claims about the existential state of God (even though science can't address the God question) go ahead. Do you want to think we pass laws telling others how they must live, how to have sex, what to eat, what to wear, and science/evolution has a concept of sin. .. Yea that sounds like what we've been talking about when it comes to genetics, speciation and natural selection and recording observations in nature. Such a joke.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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8/1/2015 2:55:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/1/2015 2:49:56 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 8/1/2015 6:01:37 AM, Skepticalone wrote:


I find these types of posts (by what I consider to be more or less intelligent people) to be alarming. I have two points:
1. If you really wanted to challenge evolution, then you would take this to the science forum.

This post is not a direct challenge to evolution. It's a critique of what I feel is a biased stance for various reasons including:

1. The assumption that either there is no God/creator (some evolutionists do make this claim), or God/creator doesn't interact with humans.

2. It's intellectually preferable to a theme where limitation of man's knowledge is suggested (Ex nihilo).

Neither of these 2 biases are sufficient grounds to claiming evolution is fact.

Yes, especially when you make up those biases that have nothing to do with evolution. That's called dishonesty.


2. Creationism is not evidentially backed, while evolution is. By evidence, I mean facts that would lead us to a proposition being a more probable than other options. The two are not even in the same ballpark. It's like comparing homeopathy to modern medicines or dowsers to geologists. If you want to accept a belief based on little or no evidence, hey, more power to you, but don't knock what is (without equal) successful and productive.
I'm assuming you mean that there's no scientific evidence of God (an intelligent designer). Is that correct?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth