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Matrix vs. Atheism Atheism takes Much Faith

Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/4/2015 9:57:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
An infinite universe or a finite universe are our choices of how our universe/reality is. I state that neither is intellectually easy to grasp or accept. In other words, we have a universe/reality that is infinite and never ends or we have a universe/reality that exists inside of nothing. It is its own container. Nothing is beyond it. A finite reality where basically we have a blob of water inside of nothing.

MATRIX vs. ATHEISM

Matrix Theory: Computer programming explains how to logically have an infinite or finite universe/reality. It brings together an equation that is missing known variables.

Atheism:
Atheism asks us to believe one of two things: 1)The universe/reality is infinite(never ending). Imagine a large rock or body of water that never ends.
2)The universe /reality is finit and has an end. Imagine a large rock or body of water inside of nothing. Imagine a container with nothing outside of it.
3)Atheism does not fill in the blanks. It leaves you an unfinished equation with unknown variables that are neccessary to form a logical hypothesis.
4)My hypotheis: It takes more faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in Matrix Theory.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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8/4/2015 11:19:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 10:04:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
Atheism = disbelief in gods.

You beat me to it.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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8/4/2015 11:39:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 10:04:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
Atheism = disbelief in gods.

In the same way theism = disbelief there are no gods. Which is no way addresses the OP.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/4/2015 12:04:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 11:39:11 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 8/4/2015 10:04:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
Atheism = disbelief in gods.

In the same way theism = disbelief there are no gods. Which is no way addresses the OP.
ladeda.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/4/2015 1:08:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 9:57:32 AM, Sooner wrote:
An infinite universe or a finite universe are our choices of how our universe/reality is. I state that neither is intellectually easy to grasp or accept. In other words, we have a universe/reality that is infinite and never ends or we have a universe/reality that exists inside of nothing. It is its own container. Nothing is beyond it. A finite reality where basically we have a blob of water inside of nothing.

MATRIX vs. ATHEISM

Matrix Theory: Computer programming explains how to logically have an infinite or finite universe/reality. It brings together an equation that is missing known variables.

Atheism:
Atheism asks us to believe one of two things: 1)The universe/reality is infinite(never ending). Imagine a large rock or body of water that never ends.
2)The universe /reality is finit and has an end. Imagine a large rock or body of water inside of nothing. Imagine a container with nothing outside of it.
3)Atheism does not fill in the blanks. It leaves you an unfinished equation with unknown variables that are neccessary to form a logical hypothesis.
4)My hypotheis: It takes more faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in Matrix Theory.

Atheism makes no claims regarding the nature of reality save that no supernatural entity deemed a god or gods exist. Your entire chain of logic is flawed from the outset. As for an equation, you should be more up on your math since you obviously have no idea how to properly construct one. Yes, we don't know everything. We've had this discussion over Matrix theory (improperly named, since it is really no more than an untested and currently untestable hypothesis). It takes exactly the same amount of faith to believe it as to be a theist, since neither God nor the Programmer has ever be seen or observed in any way.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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8/4/2015 1:15:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 9:57:32 AM, Sooner wrote:
An infinite universe or a finite universe are our choices of how our universe/reality is. I state that neither is intellectually easy to grasp or accept. In other words, we have a universe/reality that is infinite and never ends or we have a universe/reality that exists inside of nothing. It is its own container. Nothing is beyond it. A finite reality where basically we have a blob of water inside of nothing.

MATRIX vs. ATHEISM

Matrix Theory: Computer programming explains how to logically have an infinite or finite universe/reality. It brings together an equation that is missing known variables.

Atheism:
Atheism asks us to believe one of two things: 1)The universe/reality is infinite(never ending). Imagine a large rock or body of water that never ends.
2)The universe /reality is finit and has an end. Imagine a large rock or body of water inside of nothing. Imagine a container with nothing outside of it.
3)Atheism does not fill in the blanks. It leaves you an unfinished equation with unknown variables that are neccessary to form a logical hypothesis.
4)My hypotheis: It takes more faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in Matrix Theory.

Atheism, as a position, makes no statements on the universe as you suggest. Believing there are no gods does not force you to conclude anything about the origin of the universe, it doesn't force you to accept evolution, nor does it force you to accept any science at all; simply for the fact that atheism is a position and not a religion that has a collection of associated dogma that one must also believe to have that label.

So in that respect, none of those things are related to atheism in the way you claim and therefore it is not atheism that requires "faith" but instead strongly believing in the items you're saying (which itself is a position separate from atheism) does.

Even then, your third point; which is an assertion of "we don't really know" requires no faith, which is where to believe to a greater degree than the evidence and facts can show. As you're claiming making a positive assertion about how the universe is requires faith in points 1 and 2, making no claims and asserting lack of knowledge obviously isn't a faith position.

Even then, while I am sure there are some people who "believe" the universe is finite or infinite in the way you suggest, there aren't many of them here. I for example have sometimes argued for both of those first two points. However you shouldn't confuse belief that either 1 or 2 are the most plausible explanations for the origin of the universe (which I believe is true, and can be justified) is not the same as the believing one or other are definitely true (which does require faith).

So in this case, you are conflating atheism with additional dogmatic beliefs, as if to compare it to the collective dogma of religion; which it obviously isn't, and you are then misrepresenting the level of beleif some atheists have on that subject to paint it as if it's a belief.

Those are both straw men arguments as both misrepresent the argument you are opposing.

Comparison between religion and atheism is getting pretty old. Atheism isn't the position you are really trying to attack, but rational empiricism: the position that believing something doesn't make it knowledge; because knowledge is demonstrable.

The argument that ends up making always makes me laugh, is that by constantly trying to pull such a belief "down to your level", and painting faith as some negative property, it's pretty clear that you don't treat faith as a very intellectually coherent position either which leads to the question: if you think faith is such a negative thing for atheists to have, why is it not a problem for you to have it?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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8/4/2015 1:25:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 1:15:29 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
The argument that ends up making always makes me laugh, is that by constantly trying to pull such a belief "down to your level", and painting faith as some negative property, it's pretty clear that you don't treat faith as a very intellectually coherent position either which leads to the question: if you think faith is such a negative thing for atheists to have, why is it not a problem for you to have it?

I've been saying this for years, just not as well.
Thanks Ram.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/4/2015 2:09:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/4/2015 1:15:29 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 8/4/2015 9:57:32 AM, Sooner wrote:
An infinite universe or a finite universe are our choices of how our universe/reality is. I state that neither is intellectually easy to grasp or accept. In other words, we have a universe/reality that is infinite and never ends or we have a universe/reality that exists inside of nothing. It is its own container. Nothing is beyond it. A finite reality where basically we have a blob of water inside of nothing.

MATRIX vs. ATHEISM

Matrix Theory: Computer programming explains how to logically have an infinite or finite universe/reality. It brings together an equation that is missing known variables.

Atheism:
Atheism asks us to believe one of two things: 1)The universe/reality is infinite(never ending). Imagine a large rock or body of water that never ends.
2)The universe /reality is finit and has an end. Imagine a large rock or body of water inside of nothing. Imagine a container with nothing outside of it.
3)Atheism does not fill in the blanks. It leaves you an unfinished equation with unknown variables that are neccessary to form a logical hypothesis.
4)My hypotheis: It takes more faith to believe in Atheism than to believe in Matrix Theory.

Atheism, as a position, makes no statements on the universe as you suggest. Believing there are no gods does not force you to conclude anything about the origin of the universe, it doesn't force you to accept evolution, nor does it force you to accept any science at all; simply for the fact that atheism is a position and not a religion that has a collection of associated dogma that one must also believe to have that label.

So in that respect, none of those things are related to atheism in the way you claim and therefore it is not atheism that requires "faith" but instead strongly believing in the items you're saying (which itself is a position separate from atheism) does.

Even then, your third point; which is an assertion of "we don't really know" requires no faith, which is where to believe to a greater degree than the evidence and facts can show. As you're claiming making a positive assertion about how the universe is requires faith in points 1 and 2, making no claims and asserting lack of knowledge obviously isn't a faith position.

Even then, while I am sure there are some people who "believe" the universe is finite or infinite in the way you suggest, there aren't many of them here. I for example have sometimes argued for both of those first two points. However you shouldn't confuse belief that either 1 or 2 are the most plausible explanations for the origin of the universe (which I believe is true, and can be justified) is not the same as the believing one or other are definitely true (which does require faith).

So in this case, you are conflating atheism with additional dogmatic beliefs, as if to compare it to the collective dogma of religion; which it obviously isn't, and you are then misrepresenting the level of beleif some atheists have on that subject to paint it as if it's a belief.

Those are both straw men arguments as both misrepresent the argument you are opposing.

Comparison between religion and atheism is getting pretty old. Atheism isn't the position you are really trying to attack, but rational empiricism: the position that believing something doesn't make it knowledge; because knowledge is demonstrable.

The argument that ends up making always makes me laugh, is that by constantly trying to pull such a belief "down to your level", and painting faith as some negative property, it's pretty clear that you don't treat faith as a very intellectually coherent position either which leads to the question: if you think faith is such a negative thing for atheists to have, why is it not a problem for you to have it?

I'm sure you already know this, but their attempt to make atheism faith based is an attempt to refute atheists who say their lack of belief is based on evidence, or more precisely, the lack thereof. The use of evidence to make a decision regarding an assertion obviates the need for faith and, in the opinion of rational people in most regards, is superior to beliefs that do not demand evidence. (Ghosts, ghouls, etc.) Theists do not want to be part of that class so must attempt to put atheism in the same realm so they can somehow feel as if they are justified in their belief. It's a poor way to defend one's beliefs but it's really all that most theists have.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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9/15/2015 2:57:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is a matrix. Quantum Physics is widely ignored by Atheists. The concept zips over their heads, out the door, and into the sky, up into space, and into the abyss.