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Questions For Theists

Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,327
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8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.
In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal. The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude. In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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8/5/2015 9:50:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe a better thing to call this thread would be "Questions for Biblical Literalists", as not all theists believe in the viewpoints you are criticizing.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
bnrobertson
Posts: 117
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8/5/2015 9:55:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher. : :

There are thousands of past threads just like this one. Do you know how boring it is in this forum with all the threads about the same exact arguments?
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/5/2015 10:02:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:50:08 PM, joetheripper117 wrote:
Maybe a better thing to call this thread would be "Questions for Biblical Literalists", as not all theists believe in the viewpoints you are criticizing.

I am aware of that Joe, but even liberal christians can answer. I am looking for a variety of responses.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/5/2015 10:03:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:55:03 PM, bnrobertson wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher. : :

There are thousands of past threads just like this one. Do you know how boring it is in this forum with all the threads about the same exact arguments?

Then the questions should be easy to refute. I am new here, by the way.
bnrobertson
Posts: 117
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8/5/2015 10:06:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:03:03 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:55:03 PM, bnrobertson wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher. : :

There are thousands of past threads just like this one. Do you know how boring it is in this forum with all the threads about the same exact arguments?

Then the questions should be easy to refute. I am new here, by the way. : :

You should peruse through all the old threads and learn who is the winner of all the arguments.
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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8/5/2015 10:09:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:06:00 PM, bnrobertson wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:03:03 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:55:03 PM, bnrobertson wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher. : :

There are thousands of past threads just like this one. Do you know how boring it is in this forum with all the threads about the same exact arguments?

Then the questions should be easy to refute. I am new here, by the way. : :

You should peruse through all the old threads and learn who is the winner of all the arguments.

If his points are so bad, then they should be a breeze for you to refute.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/5/2015 10:16:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.
Then you find nothing wrong with masters beating their slaves as long as they don't die (Exodus 21:20-21)? You wouldn't object to bring back Biblical slavery?

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal. The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude. In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.
And St. Paul returning a runaway slave (Onesimus) to his master (Philemon) doesn't condone slavery (Philemon 1:12)? Second, so what would you say to African American slaves in the 1800s who were being beaten and whipped brutally? That they should maintain a humble attitude and just endure the torment?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

No answer here. That's ok.

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.
Right, but this observation doesn't bother you or make you doubt religion in the least?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.
So no Christian will sin in Heaven then? Ever? Because everything gets worked out here on earth?
5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.
</em

How is God still moral if He decides to not intervene in saving children from certain death?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,327
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8/5/2015 10:34:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:16:51 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.
Then you find nothing wrong with masters beating their slaves as long as they don't die (Exodus 21:20-21)? You wouldn't object to bring back Biblical slavery?

Slavery has been dealt with by Jesus and Paul, I need not to and I have no interest in enslaving people. Read the passage below and read my response about attitude.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal. The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude. In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.
And St. Paul returning a runaway slave (Onesimus) to his master (Philemon) doesn't condone slavery (Philemon 1:12)? Second, so what would you say to African American slaves in the 1800s who were being beaten and whipped brutally? That they should maintain a humble attitude and just endure the torment?

Paul wasn't addressing African slaves in the 1800's. Did you not read the passage I supplied? What passage from Paul condones what you perceive?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

No answer here. That's ok.

I'll leave that one for the geologists.

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.
Right, but this observation doesn't bother you or make you doubt religion in the least?

Why would it? I'm not part of the herd, I don't need to listen to anyone but what I observe....

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.
So no Christian will sin in Heaven then? Ever? Because everything gets worked out here on earth?

I don't know but I don't plan to, there is nothing I would want apart from God, and that is because of the process of transformation, I love God and abiding in light. I have no real desire to reject God.
5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.
</em

How is God still moral if He decides to not intervene in saving children from certain death?

Because our life on this earth is not governed by the sovereignty of God but by cause and effect (freewill). Certain death is mortal, it has no bearing on eternal life where there is no death. The only death is crossing from this life to the next, it is only temporal.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,327
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8/5/2015 10:51:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Did you read the passage, I stand by what I said. Do you not remember who were slaves and were promoted to a world wide recognition?

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

How can one help being a slave....dumbass??

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

Because I have reading comprehension, twit.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

No, idiot, read the story about Moses and Egypt. God delivered them for their obedience, not their pity about being slaves.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.

Even though I said the opposite lol.... "I have no interest in enslaving people"
Hilarious you can't read.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/5/2015 10:59:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:34:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:16:51 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.
Then you find nothing wrong with masters beating their slaves as long as they don't die (Exodus 21:20-21)? You wouldn't object to bring back Biblical slavery?

Slavery has been dealt with by Jesus and Paul, I need not to and I have no interest in enslaving people. Read the passage below and read my response about attitude.
Why did God believe slavery was acceptable in the OT then? Isn't slavery always wrong, regardless of the time and culture?
In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal. The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude. In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.
And St. Paul returning a runaway slave (Onesimus) to his master (Philemon) doesn't condone slavery (Philemon 1:12)? Second, so what would you say to African American slaves in the 1800s who were being beaten and whipped brutally? That they should maintain a humble attitude and just endure the torment?

Paul wasn't addressing African slaves in the 1800's. Did you not read the passage I supplied? What passage from Paul condones what you perceive?
The following passage: Philemon 1:1-12, especially verse 12. Does the Bible not apply to slaves in the 1800s?
2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

No answer here. That's ok.

I'll leave that one for the geologists.

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.
Right, but this observation doesn't bother you or make you doubt religion in the least?

Why would it? I'm not part of the herd, I don't need to listen to anyone but what I observe....
So a billion muslims are just gonna go to Hell because they happened to be born in the wrong area? Sure, some may convert, but the vast majority won't. You find nothing wrong with God letting "the herd" just walk right into Hell?
4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.
So no Christian will sin in Heaven then? Ever? Because everything gets worked out here on earth?

I don't know but I don't plan to, there is nothing I would want apart from God, and that is because of the process of transformation, I love God and abiding in light. I have no real desire to reject God.
Don't you sin every day? And isn't it possible you might just slip up and commit the sin of jealousy in Heaven? And even if you never do for eternity, don't you think someone might? How could Heaven, or even God, remain holy and untainted?
5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.
</em

How is God still moral if He decides to not intervene in saving children from certain death?

Because our life on this earth is not governed by the sovereignty of God but by cause and effect (freewill). Certain death is mortal, it has no bearing on eternal life where there is no death. The only death is crossing from this life to the next, it is only temporal.

Don't you think the countless rapes that occur due to freewill might make women suspicious that there is a God? Or don't you think Africans might be skeptical that God exists since countless numbers of them are always starving? God must surely know that his decision to never intervene in crimes perpetuated upon the innocent might make people doubt his existence.

Let me give you 3 scenarios:
1. An innocent kid is walking down the street and is almost shot in a drive-by but lives. His religious family says it's a miracle. God is praised.
2. Innocent kid walks down the street and is shot and injured in a drive-by. His religious family says it's a miracle because he could have died, but God "protected him." God is praised.
3. Innocent kid walks down the street and is killed in a drive-by. His religious family praises God knowing that he is in Heaven.

God can do no wrong. Shouldn't it concern you that your God's behavior supersedes any and all criticism?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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8/5/2015 11:25:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:51:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Did you read the passage, I stand by what I said.

Yes, you defend slavery and you stand by it.

Do you not remember who were slaves and were promoted to a world wide recognition?

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

How can one help being a slave....dumbass??

By teaching morons who have no morals that owning other people is immoral.

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

Because I have reading comprehension, twit.

You have a wild imagination that runs amok.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

No, idiot, read the story about Moses and Egypt. God delivered them for their obedience, not their pity about being slaves.

LOL. And yet, in Exodus 32:2-9, it describes how Moses realized the Israelite's were corrupted for having been long exposed to Egyptian heathen religious practices. Where is this obedience you speak of, wasn't it all about being released from bondage?

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.

Even though I said the opposite lol.... "I have no interest in enslaving people"

But, you'll easily defend those who do.

Hilarious you can't read.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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8/6/2015 12:31:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.

The insults you added to your responses are completely unnecessary and entirely inappropriate. I'm fairly certain you have been warned about it before, and you wont be warned about it again. Please refrain from insulting other members.

Thank you.

If you have any questions you are welcome to PM me any time.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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8/6/2015 12:31:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 10:51:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Did you read the passage, I stand by what I said. Do you not remember who were slaves and were promoted to a world wide recognition?

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

How can one help being a slave....dumbass??

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

Because I have reading comprehension, twit.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

No, idiot, read the story about Moses and Egypt. God delivered them for their obedience, not their pity about being slaves.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.

Even though I said the opposite lol.... "I have no interest in enslaving people"
Hilarious you can't read.

EtrnlVw, I don't recall ever seeing you reported before (and you weren't reported here, I just noticed your response while dealing with the reported post you replied to), so this is just a first response to this type of thing. Please refrain from insulting other members, even in retaliation (please just report them or contact me directly).

If you have any questions, please PM me.

Thank you.
Debate.org Moderator
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,327
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8/6/2015 1:03:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:31:54 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:51:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 10:36:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:48:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

Slavery is not a moral position one way or another unless it becomes an issue of morality.

Wow, I had no idea how brain dead you were until now. Of course, it's easy for you to be a self-righteous a$$hole because you've never been a slave or probably ever will be. We have no concept of the horrors of being owned by another person, that whatever you do in your life is the will of another person, who has the freedom you lack, who can make decisions and do whatever they want, again something completely lacking for a slave.

Did you read the passage, I stand by what I said. Do you not remember who were slaves and were promoted to a world wide recognition?

Of course, this is an issue of morality, it has everything to do with morality.

In other words the scriptures are for everyone, slave, non slave, gentile or non it is universal.

Yeah sure, unless you're the slave. Dumba$$.

How can one help being a slave....dumbass??

The NT does not condone slavery, it condones attitude.

LOL. Unbelievable. You simply exchange the word slavery for attitude and everything's all right. What a twit.

Because I have reading comprehension, twit.

In other words if you were born a slave or have become one you still qualify as someone who may receive from God... Ephesians 6...

Receive what from God? Lifelong servitude to other people, having no freedom whatsoever, no life, no hope, nothing? Idiot.

No, idiot, read the story about Moses and Egypt. God delivered them for their obedience, not their pity about being slaves.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

This is not condoning slavery but condoning attitude.

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

You are observing the herd, not the leaders. The herd will always follow.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Yes, we see the illustration in the character Satan, however that is the point of our fellowship with the Spirit on earth, to develop the bond with God now, to work out the kinks and rebellion, this is a process and transformation.

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

Cause and effect, reap and sow. God need not intervene. God does not control everything.


You have no morals whatsoever, you defend slavery. Friggin hilarious.

Even though I said the opposite lol.... "I have no interest in enslaving people"
Hilarious you can't read.

EtrnlVw, I don't recall ever seeing you reported before (and you weren't reported here, I just noticed your response while dealing with the reported post you replied to), so this is just a first response to this type of thing. Please refrain from insulting other members, even in retaliation (please just report them or contact me directly).

If you have any questions, please PM me.

Thank you.

Okay thanks. My apologies.
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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8/6/2015 3:55:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

This is not for a generic theist, but for Christians.


2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

Most Christians interpret the Global Flood as metaphorical.


3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

As much of a coincidence as me tossing a pack of 52 cards and finding them in *any* arrangement -- the chance of that is, technically, 1:10^64 by this logic, but it's actually 1:1.


4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

Many theists reject heaven.


5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

"Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent." -- Bare assertion. Additionally, without a standard (e.g. "evil"), the term "good" becomes incoherent. For "good" to retain coherence, there must be a negative standard. So logically, it could be that God wanted there to be "good," being benevolent, so created evil to make "good," both contingent on each other.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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8/6/2015 4:40:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 9:35:58 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
I have listed below a few questions that I'd like the theists of DDO to answer, the best that they can. Atheists and agnostics are also welcome to respond with their answers, if they choose to.

1. If God is moral, then why does the Bible condone slavery, both in the OT and NT?

2. If Noah's ark landed in a single location, releasing every animal, why did every species of kangaroo (red kangaroo, tree kangaroo, wallaby, etc.) migrate to Australia/New Guinea? Why did all of the guinea pig variants (chinchillas, etc.,) go to South America?

3. Religious people overwhelmingly follow the religion of their parents, their surrounding society, or both. If you are such a theist (christian and grew up in America; hindu grew up in India, etc.) don't you think it's rather coincidental that you just happened to find the right one?

4. Is there free will in Heaven? If so, isn't it possible that you could commit sin and then taint the Holy place? If not, then what was the point in God giving us free will in the first place?

5. What is your response to Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus Greek philosopher.

5. Perhaps evil was created when duality was created. Opposites.
sheskew
Posts: 117
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8/6/2015 5:02:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have seen arguments before that evil exists either because of a necessary duality or because of the passivity of God. I struggle to understand how these arguments are compatible with God's omnipotence and omniscience.

Omnipotence and omniscience are powerful concepts, because they represent infinities. The human mind is not well-equipped to handle infinities. But consider:

If evil "must" exist for us to have good, then God can change that. Even if we cannot conceive of how that might be, God's omniscience ensures that he knows how.
If God is sometimes passive, that would mean that there are events that God does not control and outcomes beyond his ability to influence. This is not consistent with the idea that God is always in control and that his plan encompasses all events. Nor is it consistent with the admonishment from the Bible that all of our days our numbered, all the hairs on our head are counted, and God walks with us continually throughout our lives. The Bible states emphatically that God is not passive.

Evil would be acceptable in a theological conception where God was not all-knowing and all-powerful. Perhaps evil could be attributed to Satan, whom God lacked the ability to completely counteract. Or to unintended consequences from God's actions, things he couldn't predict. But omnipotence and omniscience close the door to this explanation.
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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8/6/2015 5:07:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 5:02:18 PM, sheskew wrote:
I have seen arguments before that evil exists either because of a necessary duality or because of the passivity of God. I struggle to understand how these arguments are compatible with God's omnipotence and omniscience.

Omnipotence and omniscience are powerful concepts, because they represent infinities. The human mind is not well-equipped to handle infinities. But consider:

If evil "must" exist for us to have good, then God can change that. Even if we cannot conceive of how that might be, God's omniscience ensures that he knows how.
If God is sometimes passive, that would mean that there are events that God does not control and outcomes beyond his ability to influence. This is not consistent with the idea that God is always in control and that his plan encompasses all events. Nor is it consistent with the admonishment from the Bible that all of our days our numbered, all the hairs on our head are counted, and God walks with us continually throughout our lives. The Bible states emphatically that God is not passive.

Evil would be acceptable in a theological conception where God was not all-knowing and all-powerful. Perhaps evil could be attributed to Satan, whom God lacked the ability to completely counteract. Or to unintended consequences from God's actions, things he couldn't predict. But omnipotence and omniscience close the door to this explanation.

I'm not sure why everyone assumes God is benevolent, omnipotent,and omniscient.