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Is this irrefutable proof of god?

Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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8/6/2015 9:06:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

5 minutes of my precious life just directly to the trashcan. I wonder who will endure more than me!
sheskew
Posts: 117
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8/7/2015 12:01:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I skipped about through it and heard bits and pieces. When you get to the part where he starts standing on chairs, I think that's the core of his argument. None of what he's arguing is new. The argument is poorly reasoned and unsound.

As an aside: anyone who says they can offer you irrefutable evidence of anything while standing in a classroom with no visual aids, artifacts, or handouts is probably blowing smoke at you. Verbal arguments don't prove things.
Nac
Posts: 326
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8/7/2015 12:02:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 8:58:10 PM, ecco wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Care to write the gist of what you want us to go see.

I didn't watch the video, but here is its description.

"Christian Apologist and Pastor, Jeff Durbin, was invited to speak to the Philosophy of Religion class at Scottsdale Community College. Initially, this was planned as a debate between Jeff and an Atheist. After being unable to find an Atheist to participate, Jeff was invited to give a positive presentation the existence of God and the truthfulness of the Christian Worldview.

Jeff presents and defends the claim: The proof of the Christian God is that apart from Him you can't prove anything.

This is an excellent introduction to the Christian Worldview and the Biblical Gospel. We hope you'll feel led to share this with your friends, family, and even those hostile to the Gospel.

Learn more about Jeff Durbin and the ministry of Apologia Church at apologiaradio.com or apologiachurch.com"
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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8/7/2015 12:18:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 12:02:52 AM, Nac wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:58:10 PM, ecco wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Care to write the gist of what you want us to go see.

I didn't watch the video, but here is its description.

"Christian Apologist and Pastor, Jeff Durbin, was invited to speak to the Philosophy of Religion class at Scottsdale Community College. Initially, this was planned as a debate between Jeff and an Atheist. After being unable to find an Atheist to participate, Jeff was invited to give a positive presentation the existence of God and the truthfulness of the Christian Worldview.

Jeff presents and defends the claim: The proof of the Christian God is that apart from Him you can't prove anything.

This is an excellent introduction to the Christian Worldview and the Biblical Gospel. We hope you'll feel led to share this with your friends, family, and even those hostile to the Gospel.

Learn more about Jeff Durbin and the ministry of Apologia Church at apologiaradio.com or apologiachurch.com"

Isn't that argument just an appeal to consequences?
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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8/7/2015 12:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 9:06:02 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

5 minutes of my precious life just directly to the trashcan. I wonder who will endure more than me!

Haha, i got to exactly 4:48 then saw your comment ...
sheskew
Posts: 117
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8/7/2015 12:35:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 12:18:08 AM, joetheripper117 wrote:
Isn't that argument just an appeal to consequences?

Yeah, his basic argument is that God is required in order to have logic or expectations of the future. Or, to boil down the argument he was making while standing on a chair, "if you as an atheist don't have a rigorous scientific explanation for why the cosmological constants don't change, then you aren't justified in having any expectations that the universe won't fly apart in a few moments, but I'm sure God is in control because I read that in a book and so God exists." My undergraduate logic professor is probably getting heartburn right now and he doesn't know why.
sheskew
Posts: 117
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8/7/2015 1:11:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 12:39:01 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
I'm not really much of a theist, i'm just curious to hear what people think about this.

This is an argument commonly called the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God, the argument that logic, science, and objective ethical standards presuppose the existence of God. It fails chiefly for two reasons, (a) it is not unreasonable to trust in logic science and ethics, simply because they work when used, and (b) God is depicted as able and willing to alter the laws of reality at a whim, and thus the existence of God would actually be a threat to applying inductive reasoning in logic science and ethics.

More cogently, I'd respond that you cannot argue something into existence. Even if you can build a persuasive logical argument for something, it still must actually exist. Philosophers don't like to hear that, but it remains true nonetheless.

You can view a lengthy refutation of the argument at http://infidels.org....
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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8/7/2015 6:27:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
Coming from a Christian, never trust when someone says they have "irrefutable" proof of God. No one has it, especially not in one place. I have had to read many articles and books to find arguments that appealed to me.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/7/2015 3:31:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
From Post #17
" After being unable to find an Atheist to participate,..."

Really?!? They couldn.t find an atheist? Really?!?

I heard:
They asked god to do a Google search for an atheist worth debating.
God replied "Uh, no, maybe a presentation would be more convincing than a debate, a few people might just listen to what the atheist had to say.
Think
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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8/8/2015 3:41:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 8:43:37 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

It's basically a transcendental argument for God. It can be easily reversed (c.f. Michael Martin's reverse transcendental argument, "Atheism: A Philosophical Justification").
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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8/8/2015 3:47:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The transcendental argument also is refuted by Hume's problem of induction. There's also a great refutation of it by Martin himself [http://infidels.org...].
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass