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Have the lds and Jw's ???

graceofgod
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8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...

I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..
Composer
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8/8/2015 9:28:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

trinitarians likewise have embraced a corrupt ideology full of holes that the earliest & original believers NEVER believed, nor taught!
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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8/8/2015 10:27:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

Your belief system is as crazy, imo!
tstor
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8/8/2015 10:42:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...
I can say that JWs have not. None of their teachings, to my knowledge, contradict the Bible. Mormons do have some contradicting ideas, but that is because they have another gospel that they believe to be completely uncorrupted.

I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..
How so? Can you give your reasoning rather than just making a vague statement?

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..
What holes are you referring to?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Dogknox
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8/9/2015 3:39:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

The Jws.... Reject scripture... John 1 "The WORD IS GOD"!
Scripture.. John 1 "The WORD is; Made Flesh!"

Clearly John 1 God is made man!!!

They also change the word "WORSHIP" to the word (OBEISANCE) in Matthew 28:17 NO OTHER..
NO OTHER interpretation uses the word " (OBEISANCE) "!!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

KJ21 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
ASV And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
AMPAnd when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
BRG.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
CEB.. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted.
CJB.. When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
CEV.. They saw him and worshiped him, but some of them doubted.
DARBYAnd when they saw him, they did homage to him: but some doubted.
DLNTAnd having seen Him, they worshiped Him. But the ones doubted.

LOOK
DRA Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt adore before me, all shall be thine.

DRA Matthew 28:17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.

ERV..On the mountain the followers saw Jesus. They worshiped him. But some of the followers did not believe that it was really Jesus.
ESV..And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.
ESVUK..And when they saw him they worshipped him, but some doubted.
EXB.. When they saw Jesus, they worshiped him, but some of them "did not believe it was really Jesus [doubted].
GNV.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
GW.. When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.
GNT When they saw him, they worshiped him, even though some of them doubted.
HCSB..When they saw Him, they worshiped, but some doubted.
ICB..On the mountain they saw Jesus and worshiped him. But some of them did not believe that it was really Jesus.
ISV..When they saw him, they worshipped him, though some had doubts.
PHILLIPS.. But the eleven went to the hill-side in Galilee where Jesus had arranged to meet them, and when they had seen him they worshipped him, though some of them were doubtful.
JUB.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
KJV.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
AKJV..And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
LEB..And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
TLB.. There they met him and worshiped him"but some of them weren"t sure it really was Jesus!
MSG..Meanwhile, the eleven disciples were on their way to Galilee, headed for the mountain Jesus had set for their reunion. The moment they saw him they worshiped him. Some, though, held back, not sure about worship, about risking themselves totally.
MEV.. When they saw Him, they worshipped Him. But some doubted.
MOUNCE..And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some hesitated.
NOG..When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.
NABRE..When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
NASB..When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
NCV ..On the mountain they saw Jesus and worshiped him, but some of them did not believe it was really Jesus.
NET..When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
NIRV..When they saw him, they worshiped him. But some still had their doubts.
NIV.. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
NIVUK..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NKJV..When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
NLV.. When they saw Jesus, they worshiped Him. But some did not believe.
NLT.. When they saw him, they worshiped him"but some of them doubted!
NRSV..When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
NRSVA..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NRSVACE..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NRSVCE..When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
OJB..And when they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him, but some were doubtful.
RSVAnd when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
RSVCE..And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
VOICE..When the disciples saw Jesus there, many of them fell down and worshiped, as Mary and the other Mary had done. But a few hung back. They were not sure (and who can blame them?).
WEB..When they saw him, they bowed down to him, but some doubted.
WE..When they saw him, they bowed down in front of him. But some people were not sure.
WYC..And they saw him, and worshipped; but some of them doubted.
YLT..and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver.

Jehovah witness bible..NWT 17 When they saw him, they did obeisance, but some doubted.
LostintheEcho1498
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8/9/2015 3:54:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...

Well I am LDS and don't need to create contradictions..? We use the Bible just as much as other doctrine. We just believe it to not be entirely correct on wording and translation due to the number of times it was re-translated.

I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

Partially, this is true for LDS. We don't believe it untrue or incomplete, just that it was a book made for Hebrew that got some things lost in translation.
I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

And now we see the true colors of the post. Your next sentence is contradictory to your previous. If looking to begin debate, attempt to do so without calling religions attempted frauds. Good way to make people angry at you though.
can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
tstor
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8/9/2015 6:59:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 3:39:17 AM, Dogknox wrote:
I can see you have still clung desperately to the same arguments as before. It would be un-Christian of me to let them be misinformed by your intellectually dishonest post.

The Jws.... Reject scripture... John 1 "The WORD IS GOD"!
Scripture.. John 1 "The WORD is; Made Flesh!"

Clearly John 1 God is made man!!!
So let's address John 1:1. We first have to recognize that first century Greek did not have indefinite articles ("a" or "an"). What does this mean? It would mean we have a 50% chance of guessing whether it ends in "was a god" or "was God". Before we dive into the scholarly explanation of why it is "a god", let's first consider which one makes more sense in context of the entire verse. The NIV rendition is this:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So I ask you, how does it make sense that the Word was with God while the Word is also God? I do not say that "tstor was with me and I am tstor" because it makes no sense. Similarly, John 1:1 makes no sense if it is supposed to end with "the Word was God". Now let's look at the NWT:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
This makes sense, for the Word was with God and was a god, different from God. So therefore the Word could be with God as it is not God.

For the scholarly explanation, why take a guess when we can confirm what it is supposed to say? If we look at the third century (notice it is before the doctrine of the trinity in the fourth century) Sahidic dialect of the Coptic Bible, we see that they used an indefinite article in John 1:1, rendering it as the NWT does.

You would be led to believe that the NWT was the only translation ever to render John 1:1 this way, but it is simply not true. Intellectually dishonest people such as Dogknox tend to leave out the evidence that does not fit their agenda. Let's look at other translations that have rendered John 1:1 as the NWT throughout history:
1808: "and the word was a god." (The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome"s New Translation: With a Corrected Text)

1864: "and a god was the word." (The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson)

1928: "and the Word was a divine being." (La Bible du Centenaire, L"Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel)

1935: "and the Word was divine." (The Bible"An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed)

1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word." (Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme)

1958: "and the Word was a God." (The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek)

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." (Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz)

1978: "and godlike kind was the Logos." (Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider)

Even Origen, the most knowledgeable of the early Christian Greek-speaking scholars, tells us that John 1:1 actually means "the Word [logos] was a god." (Origen's Commentary on John, Book I, ch. 42 - Bk II, ch.3)

They also change the word "WORSHIP" to the word (OBEISANCE) in Matthew 28:17 NO OTHER..
NO OTHER interpretation uses the word " (OBEISANCE) "!!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Once again, it just comes down to the Greek. The word used was "proskyneo", which means to "kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage." (Unger's Bible Dictionary)
Just to show you how contradictory all the translations listed by Dogknox really are, look at their rendering of Matthew 18:26. I will show the NIV rendition:
"At this the servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'"
The word used in this verse is the same word used in Matthew 28:17, which is "proskyneo". The difference is that it is rendered correctly in this verse, but not in the ones where it pertains to Jesus.

In fact, let's look at another contradiction at Hebrews 1:6. The NIV rendition is:
"And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'"
The same word, "proskyneo" is used here, but this time some Bible translations branch off and use it differently. Consider these:
New Jerusalem Bible (NJB): "pay him homage"
The Complete Bible in Modern English: "honour him"
Twentieth Century New Testament: "bow down before him"
New World Translation (NWT): "do obeisance to him"

Of course, I am sure none of this is convincing to Dogknox and he will never change his ways. This is why I have not directly addressed him in this post, but rather I wrote it in a way for other readers to appreciate.

Just for fun, let's see what scholars have said in support of the NWT (Greek):
Edgar J. Goodspeed, translator of the New Testament in An American Translation, wrote in a letter to the Watch Tower Society: "I am interested in the mission work of your people, and its world wide scope, and much pleased with the free, frank and vigorous translation. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify."

Unitarian theologian Charles Francis Potter stated about the NWT: "Apart from a few semantic peculiarities like translating the Greek word stauros, as "stake" instead of "cross", and the often startling use of the colloquial and the vernacular, the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen."

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. ... We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."

Thomas Winter, an instructor of Greek at the University of Nebraska and former president of the Unitarian Church of Lincoln, considered the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to be a "highly useful aid toward the mastery of koine (and classical) Greek," adding that the translation "is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate."

In support of the Hebrew:
Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Professor of History and Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, said in 1989: "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work [the NWT Old Testament] reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible."

For some real fun, let's see what Dogknox's own brethren (Catholics) have said about it:
The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the NWT reference edition: "[Jehovah's Witnesses]' translation of the Bible [has] an impressive critical apparatus. The work is excellent except when scientific knowledge comes into conflict with the accepted doctrines of the movement." It criticizes the NWT's rendering of Kyrios as "Jehovah" in 237 instances in the New Testament.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
bulproof
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8/9/2015 8:26:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 6:59:27 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/9/2015 3:39:17 AM, Dogknox wrote:

Just to show you how contradictory all the translations listed by Dogknox really are, look at their rendering of Matthew 18:26. I will show the NIV rendition:
"At this the servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'"
The word used in this verse is the same word used in Matthew 28:17, which is "proskyneo". The difference is that it is rendered correctly in this verse, but not in the ones where it pertains to Jesus.

In fact, let's look at another contradiction at Hebrews 1:6. The NIV rendition is:
"And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'"
The same word, "proskyneo" is used here, but this time some Bible translations branch off and use it differently. Consider these:
New Jerusalem Bible (NJB): "pay him homage"
The Complete Bible in Modern English: "honour him"
Twentieth Century New Testament: "bow down before him"
New World Translation (NWT): "do obeisance to him"

Of course, I am sure none of this is convincing to Dogknox and he will never change his ways. This is why I have not directly addressed him in this post, but rather I wrote it in a way for other readers to appreciate.

Just for fun, let's see what scholars have said in support of the NWT (Greek):
Edgar J. Goodspeed, translator of the New Testament in An American Translation, wrote in a letter to the Watch Tower Society: "I am interested in the mission work of your people, and its world wide scope, and much pleased with the free, frank and vigorous translation. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify."

Unitarian theologian Charles Francis Potter stated about the NWT: "Apart from a few semantic peculiarities like translating the Greek word stauros, as "stake" instead of "cross", and the often startling use of the colloquial and the vernacular, the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen."

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. ... We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."

Thomas Winter, an instructor of Greek at the University of Nebraska and former president of the Unitarian Church of Lincoln, considered the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to be a "highly useful aid toward the mastery of koine (and classical) Greek," adding that the translation "is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate."

In support of the Hebrew:
Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Professor of History and Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, said in 1989: "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work [the NWT Old Testament] reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible."

For some real fun, let's see what Dogknox's own brethren (Catholics) have said about it:
The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the NWT reference edition: "[Jehovah's Witnesses]' translation of the Bible [has] an impressive critical apparatus. The work is excellent except when scientific knowledge comes into conflict with the accepted doctrines of the movement." It criticizes the NWT's rendering of Kyrios as "Jehovah" in 237 instances in the New Testament.
<snipped for space>

And here.
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3

"It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157

"Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer. Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man." Zion's Watch Tower 1898 Jul 15 p.216

Jehovians in action.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
sheskew
Posts: 117
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8/9/2015 8:33:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...
I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..
I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

I think it might be the reverse, really. The founders of these faiths found fault with the Bible and chose to rewrite or add to it in an attempt to fix those perceived faults. Doctrines and religious organization flow from the amendments/additions. New members of the faith are indoctrinated into the positions of the organization, adopt them as their own, and pass them on to those who join yet later.

Really it is not unlike the King James version of the Bible and the Episcopalian faith, which essentially exist because James didn't like the fact that the Catholic understanding of the faith didn't allow him to remarry (yes, I know that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it's just an example).
graceofgod
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8/9/2015 2:41:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 3:39:17 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

The Jws.... Reject scripture... John 1 "The WORD IS GOD"!
Scripture.. John 1 "The WORD is; Made Flesh!"

Clearly John 1 God is made man!!!

They also change the word "WORSHIP" to the word (OBEISANCE) in Matthew 28:17 NO OTHER..
NO OTHER interpretation uses the word " (OBEISANCE) "!!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.


KJ21 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
ASV And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
AMPAnd when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
BRG.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
CEB.. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted.
CJB.. When they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him; but some hesitated.
CEV.. They saw him and worshiped him, but some of them doubted.
DARBYAnd when they saw him, they did homage to him: but some doubted.
DLNTAnd having seen Him, they worshiped Him. But the ones doubted.

LOOK
DRA Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt adore before me, all shall be thine.

DRA Matthew 28:17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.

ERV..On the mountain the followers saw Jesus. They worshiped him. But some of the followers did not believe that it was really Jesus.
ESV..And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.
ESVUK..And when they saw him they worshipped him, but some doubted.
EXB.. When they saw Jesus, they worshiped him, but some of them "did not believe it was really Jesus [doubted].
GNV.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
GW.. When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.
GNT When they saw him, they worshiped him, even though some of them doubted.
HCSB..When they saw Him, they worshiped, but some doubted.
ICB..On the mountain they saw Jesus and worshiped him. But some of them did not believe that it was really Jesus.
ISV..When they saw him, they worshipped him, though some had doubts.
PHILLIPS.. But the eleven went to the hill-side in Galilee where Jesus had arranged to meet them, and when they had seen him they worshipped him, though some of them were doubtful.
JUB.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
KJV.. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
AKJV..And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
LEB..And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
TLB.. There they met him and worshiped him"but some of them weren"t sure it really was Jesus!
MSG..Meanwhile, the eleven disciples were on their way to Galilee, headed for the mountain Jesus had set for their reunion. The moment they saw him they worshiped him. Some, though, held back, not sure about worship, about risking themselves totally.
MEV.. When they saw Him, they worshipped Him. But some doubted.
MOUNCE..And when they saw him, they worshiped him, but some hesitated.
NOG..When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.
NABRE..When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
NASB..When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
NCV ..On the mountain they saw Jesus and worshiped him, but some of them did not believe it was really Jesus.
NET..When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some doubted.
NIRV..When they saw him, they worshiped him. But some still had their doubts.
NIV.. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
NIVUK..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NKJV..When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
NLV.. When they saw Jesus, they worshiped Him. But some did not believe.
NLT.. When they saw him, they worshiped him"but some of them doubted!
NRSV..When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
NRSVA..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NRSVACE..When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
NRSVCE..When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
OJB..And when they saw him, they prostrated themselves before him, but some were doubtful.
RSVAnd when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
RSVCE..And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
VOICE..When the disciples saw Jesus there, many of them fell down and worshiped, as Mary and the other Mary had done. But a few hung back. They were not sure (and who can blame them?).
WEB..When they saw him, they bowed down to him, but some doubted.
WE..When they saw him, they bowed down in front of him. But some people were not sure.
WYC..And they saw him, and worshipped; but some of them doubted.
YLT..and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver.



Jehovah witness bible..NWT 17 When they saw him, they did obeisance, but some doubted.

great post thank you...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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8/9/2015 2:46:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 3:54:37 AM, LostintheEcho1498 wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...

Well I am LDS and don't need to create contradictions..? We use the Bible just as much as other doctrine. We just believe it to not be entirely correct on wording and translation due to the number of times it was re-translated.

I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

Partially, this is true for LDS. We don't believe it untrue or incomplete, just that it was a book made for Hebrew that got some things lost in translation.
I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

And now we see the true colors of the post. Your next sentence is contradictory to your previous. If looking to begin debate, attempt to do so without calling religions attempted frauds. Good way to make people angry at you though.
can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

It is an honest attempt at debate...

the lds claim an apostasy and the only truth....

the apostasy and only truth gives them their chance to fit in another testament of Jesus and creates room for their version of the truth...

saying the bible is in error apart from where they claim it supports the lds in my opinion is also dishonest...
i believe the major lds writings are taken to have greater authority which they shouldn't and lets face it the scroll jo smith claimed to have translated with gods help was a real embarrassment..
graceofgod
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8/9/2015 2:51:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.

so the fact the jw's and lds claim to be the only true church and the only way to God could be taken as hatred could it??

it is a topic of debate there is no hatred in this thread..
graceofgod
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8/9/2015 2:54:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 8:33:43 AM, sheskew wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...
I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..
I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

I think it might be the reverse, really. The founders of these faiths found fault with the Bible and chose to rewrite or add to it in an attempt to fix those perceived faults. Doctrines and religious organization flow from the amendments/additions. New members of the faith are indoctrinated into the positions of the organization, adopt them as their own, and pass them on to those who join yet later.

Really it is not unlike the King James version of the Bible and the Episcopalian faith, which essentially exist because James didn't like the fact that the Catholic understanding of the faith didn't allow him to remarry (yes, I know that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it's just an example).

that is very unlikely as all the jw's and lds have done is add more confusion, what with temple marriages, masonic ceremonies, baptism for the dead, becoming gods, the invisible return of Jesus...
Dogknox
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8/9/2015 4:12:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

Joseph Smith with the help of an angel translated God' words into the "Book Of Mormon"!
FACT IS.... It is written in English very similar to the Early Modern English linguistic style of the King James Version of the Bible!! BUT...

But, Joseph Smith's translation had Linguistic Diction and spelling errors!!! As if the Angel and God did not know how to talk or spell!?? As IF.. God spoke with the Old English tongue when Joseph Smith in his day did not!

Clearly Joseph Smith is a PLAGIARIST of the King James Version of the Bible!!
Kyle_the_Heretic
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8/9/2015 4:17:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.

so the fact the jw's and lds claim to be the only true church and the only way to God could be taken as hatred could it??

it is a topic of debate there is no hatred in this thread..

It is purely hatred, and hypocrisy, as you also claim to have the only truth, else you would not point out what you believe to be untruth.

Lord did I not hate the JWs, and did I not hate the LDS, and did I hate all that claimed to have the only truth, showing that it was I who had the only truth. Depart from me ye who work iniquity. I never knew you.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
bulproof
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8/9/2015 4:40:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah look, this bible thing is not the foundation of christianity, it's a book cobbled together by a conference and committees that had an agenda and christianity wasn't it. Catholicism was, so basically you all want to follow what the Catholics declared the word of god.
Even though satan was and is the ruler of this world, good luck getting god's book past that.
Or do you just wank yourselves over that bit?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
graceofgod
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8/9/2015 4:45:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:12:31 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..


Joseph Smith with the help of an angel translated God' words into the "Book Of Mormon"!
FACT IS.... It is written in English very similar to the Early Modern English linguistic style of the King James Version of the Bible!! BUT...

But, Joseph Smith's translation had Linguistic Diction and spelling errors!!! As if the Angel and God did not know how to talk or spell!?? As IF.. God spoke with the Old English tongue when Joseph Smith in his day did not!

Clearly Joseph Smith is a PLAGIARIST of the King James Version of the Bible!!

I agree, that is quite obviously what happened...
graceofgod
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8/9/2015 4:48:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:17:20 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.

so the fact the jw's and lds claim to be the only true church and the only way to God could be taken as hatred could it??

it is a topic of debate there is no hatred in this thread..

It is purely hatred, and hypocrisy, as you also claim to have the only truth, else you would not point out what you believe to be untruth.

Lord did I not hate the JWs, and did I not hate the LDS, and did I hate all that claimed to have the only truth, showing that it was I who had the only truth. Depart from me ye who work iniquity. I never knew you.

I have claimed the lds and jw's have lied and manipulated, I have not claimed I have the only truth...

I don't hate anyone, I would like them all to be guided from the lies they have fallen for...

do the jw's and lds hate the non believers they go to convert or the Christians they would try to convert??
Dogknox
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8/9/2015 4:50:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 6:59:27 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/9/2015 3:39:17 AM, Dogknox wrote:
I can see you have still clung desperately to the same arguments as before. It would be un-Christian of me to let them be misinformed by your intellectually dishonest post.

The Jws.... Reject scripture... John 1 "The WORD IS GOD"!
Scripture.. John 1 "The WORD is; Made Flesh!"


Even Origen, the most knowledgeable of the early Christian Greek-speaking scholars, tells us that John 1:1 actually means "the Word [logos] was a god." (Origen's Commentary on John, Book I, ch. 42 - Bk II, ch.3)

They also change the word "WORSHIP" to the word (OBEISANCE) in Matthew 28:17 NO OTHER..
NO OTHER interpretation uses the word " (OBEISANCE) "!!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Once again, it just comes down to the Greek. The word used was "proskyneo", which means to "kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage." (Unger's Bible Dictionary)
Just to show you how contradictory all the translations listed by Dogknox really are, look at their rendering of Matthew 18:26. I will show the NIV rendition:
"At this the servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'"
The word used in this verse is the same word used in Matthew 28:17, which is "proskyneo". The difference is that it is rendered correctly in this verse, but not in the ones where it pertains to Jesus.

In fact, let's look at another contradiction at Hebrews 1:6. The NIV rendition is:
"And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'"
The same word, "proskyneo" is used here, but this time some Bible translations branch off and use it differently. Consider these:
New Jerusalem Bible (NJB): "pay him homage"
The Complete Bible in Modern English: "honour him"
Twentieth Century New Testament: "bow down before him"
New World Translation (NWT): "do obeisance to him"

Of course, I am sure none of this is convincing to Dogknox and he will never change his ways. This is why I have not directly addressed him in this post, but rather I wrote it in a way for other readers to appreciate.

Just for fun, let's see what scholars have said in support of the NWT (Greek):
Edgar J. Goodspeed, translator of the New Testament in An American Translation, wrote in a letter to the Watch Tower Society: "I am interested in the mission work of your people, and its world wide scope, and much pleased with the free, frank and vigorous translation. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify."

Unitarian theologian Charles Francis Potter stated about the NWT: "Apart from a few semantic peculiarities like translating the Greek word stauros, as "stake" instead of "cross", and the often startling use of the colloquial and the vernacular, the anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen."

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. ... We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."

Thomas Winter, an instructor of Greek at the University of Nebraska and former president of the Unitarian Church of Lincoln, considered the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to be a "highly useful aid toward the mastery of koine (and classical) Greek," adding that the translation "is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate."

In support of the Hebrew:
Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Professor of History and Director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, said in 1989: "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work [the NWT Old Testament] reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible."

For some real fun, let's see what Dogknox's own brethren (Catholics) have said about it:
The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the NWT reference edition: "[Jehovah's Witnesses]' translation of the Bible [has] an impressive critical apparatus. The work is excellent except when scientific knowledge comes into conflict with the accepted doctrines of the movement." It criticizes the NWT's rendering of Kyrios as "Jehovah" in 237 instances in the New Testament.

Greek the word WORSHIP is proskyns !!
4352 [e]
proskyn
will worship
V-ASA-2S


proskyn&#275;s is ONLY FOR GOD!!!!! Jesus tell you so!!!! Luke 4:7

Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Greek the word WORSHIPED is prosekynsan
4352 [e]
prosekynsan
worshiped
V-AIA-3P


They prosekynsan Jesus!!!! Matthew 28:9

.....WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD.... They WORSHIP Jesus!!

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

Verse #2 is very clear.. Jesus is with God from the beginning! The WORD is Jesus!!

Or the WORD was "A" God.. It makes NO difference!!!! The WORD became MAN... Jesus is the WORD!!!

They WORSHIP Jesus.. Jesus tell you in Luke 4:7 WORSHIP is ONLY for God! The WORD "WAS" or "A" God!!

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from

God became flesh and made his dwelling among us!!!

No place in the scriptures can you read.. Jesus stops them from worshiping him!! Jesus always allows them to worship him knowing very well.. WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD!
Dogknox
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8/9/2015 4:54:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:17:20 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.

so the fact the jw's and lds claim to be the only true church and the only way to God could be taken as hatred could it??

it is a topic of debate there is no hatred in this thread..

It is purely hatred, and hypocrisy, as you also claim to have the only truth, else you would not point out what you believe to be untruth.

Lord did I not hate the JWs, and did I not hate the LDS, and did I hate all that claimed to have the only truth, showing that it was I who had the only truth. Depart from me ye who work iniquity. I never knew you.

No not hatred of the JWs or LDS! It is pointing out the LIE they teach!!
THINK.... Out of the two who is the right.... Both claim to have the only truth!!
PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who is the correct??

When you pick.. I will point an accusing finger at you and say.. You HATE!
annanicole
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8/9/2015 5:01:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 6:59:27 AM, tstor wrote:

Religion writer and editor Alexander Thomson said of the NWT: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing. ... We heartily recommend the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published in 1950 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."

Oh, c'mon. You give the opinion of a fella with absolutely no formal training in Greek or any other ancient language and whose chief claim to fame was that he worked in the publishing of another vagrant "translation" (the Concordant). Heck, the Concordant makes some of the same errors that the NWT makes. Thus, it would appear that Mr. Thomson's compliments of the NWT are based upon the fact that it supports some of his own peculiar doctrines, i. e. it is a very biased opinion of a man who, though commenting upon the translation of an ancient language, had absolutely no formal training in ancient languages. He was a financier, a banker - not a student of translation.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
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8/9/2015 5:01:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

So does Christianity, GoG. It repudiates and amends key tenets of Judaism from which it was derived.
Dogknox
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8/9/2015 5:03:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:40:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
Yeah look, this bible thing is not the foundation of christianity, it's a book cobbled together by a conference and committees that had an agenda and christianity wasn't it. Catholicism was, so basically you all want to follow what the Catholics declared the word of god.
Even though satan was and is the ruler of this world, good luck getting god's book past that.
Or do you just wank yourselves over that bit?

Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Satan will never ever leave this place!! Even when it is a burnt out ball of rock spinning in space!
God is going to make a new earth one minus Satan!
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Juan_Pablo
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8/9/2015 5:27:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

First of all, you're assuming that the Bible is a book that's clear and consistent from front to back. This is wrong. The Bible is filled with inconsistencies and was written by a number of authors that would have disagreed with each other if they ever met in person. (I also believe God wanted it this way.)

I think the Bible has value (there's actually several), as does the Koran, the Torah, and the Book of Mormon. Catholics also have their own Bible, as do mainline Protestants (there's 73 books in the Catholic Bible and 66 in the Protestant).

But these books are not the sole source of inspiration, and there's genuinely better truths out there too. I don't think we can eliminate the Bible from modern-day American culture, and I don't think God wants to do that either.

Whether the stories in the Bible communicate truth or not, they do have a moral quality to them. And the contradictions and theological conflicts push people to question theological authority and Churches, which is what I think God wants us to do.

Just as you have a problem with Holy Books and perspectives that you don't regularly read or adhere to, these groups can get uncomfortable with your views too.

Same people blame the devil for this. I think it's simply God's way of forcing people to realize that their not the center of his focus. (They're important, but not the centerpiece of God's attention.) Different races, different religions, different cultures, different political beliefs.

God wants people that wont overindulge, that are limited in power, that acknowledge that they live in a world organized where they can't do anything they want. That requires people to be different.

Yeah, it's not fun to think of yourself as just another human (I personally hate it), but it does make one more responsible and better social contributor.
Juan_Pablo
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8/9/2015 5:33:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Correction:

God wants people that wont overindulge, that are limited in power, that acknowledge that they live in a world where they can't do anything they want, and who occasionally perform acts of good will for others. That requires people to be diverse and to subscribe to different cultures.

Sometimes we war for these reasons, but the financial toll and loss of life this brings usually puts things back in perspective.
MadCornishBiker
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8/9/2015 5:34:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

The JWs rely on the Bible being 100% true, which it is, and that is why they base every single teaching on it, just as Christ and the Apostles did.

The only holes in what scripture tells us are things we don't need to know.

The JWs and I agree 100% with Paul's words to Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
YLT(i) 16 every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fitted"for every good work having been completed.

You have been listening to the wrong people again.

There is not one point in JW teachings that cannot be supported by scripture, and they are the only ones who can truthfully say that.

That is the entire reason I joined them in the first place. If they didn't teach what scripture does I would have walked away like I had from every other group I investigated.
MadCornishBiker
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8/9/2015 5:40:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 5:27:00 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

First of all, you're assuming that the Bible is a book that's clear and consistent from front to back. This is wrong. The Bible is filled with inconsistencies and was written by a number of authors that would have disagreed with each other if they ever met in person. (I also believe God wanted it this way.)

It is clear and consistent from front to back if you understand it aright.

Trouble is you don;t from what I can tell of your posts.

The Bible tells a consistent story from Genesis to Revelation.

The first three chapters of Genesis document Jehovah's plans.

The last three Chapters of Revelation document what will happen when it is all finally back on course as it inevitably will be.

Everything else simply documents the progress of his plans from the Garden of Eden to today and beyond.

That is precisely what the bible is and does, and nothing in it can, or ever will, be reliably and demonstrably, proved wrong.

Where is the problem in that?

If you can't see that, then maybe you need the right kind of help to learn (James 1:5-8).
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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8/9/2015 5:43:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 5:34:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

The JWs rely on the Bible being 100% true, which it is,

... after they've deleted what they didn't like, added what suited them, then shuffled through it and patched up all the errors. Then they'll hide behind the excuse, "Oh, that was added/changed by the apostates, so we just changed it back."

That's why they came up with the NWT, a translation based upon the work of a "committee" of ... guess who? ... anonymous Jehovah's Witnesses who, despite their best efforts, hardly remained anonymous. Not a single one of them had a lick of formal training in Greek or Hebrew.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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8/9/2015 5:47:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/9/2015 4:48:29 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/9/2015 4:17:20 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 8/9/2015 4:04:47 AM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 8/8/2015 8:17:46 AM, graceofgod wrote:
purposely tried to find and create contradictions in the bible to make their own doctrines seem more accessible to people...


I have noticed both jw and lds doctrines rely on the bible being either untrue or incomplete to a degree..

I wonder if it is possible they have created these holes in an attempt to make their organisations more palatable..

can we please avoid well it's all rubbish any posts...cheers..

So much hatred. Your user name is a mockery. It should be, disgraceofgod.

so the fact the jw's and lds claim to be the only true church and the only way to God could be taken as hatred could it??

it is a topic of debate there is no hatred in this thread..

It is purely hatred, and hypocrisy, as you also claim to have the only truth, else you would not point out what you believe to be untruth.

Lord did I not hate the JWs, and did I not hate the LDS, and did I hate all that claimed to have the only truth, showing that it was I who had the only truth. Depart from me ye who work iniquity. I never knew you.

I have claimed the lds and jw's have lied and manipulated, I have not claimed I have the only truth...

In doing so, you claim to have the only truth. If not, who else has the truth?

I don't hate anyone, I would like them all to be guided from the lies they have fallen for...

You have shown that it is only you who have fallen for lies.

do the jw's and lds hate the non believers they go to convert or the Christians they would try to convert??

Does it make sense to convert someone you hate? Your false beliefs have no logic, and are certainly not of God.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.