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Yassine
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8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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8/10/2015 1:44:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

What are your thoughts on the five prominent Sunni schools of legal thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Zahiri) and the biggest issues which separate them from one another?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/10/2015 3:16:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:44:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

What are your thoughts on the five prominent Sunni schools of legal thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Zahiri) and the biggest issues which separate them from one another?

- Zahiri? Lol. Zahiris were extinct long ago. There were others as well (Sufian Thawri, Awza'i, Ibn 'Uyayna, Zuhri...) that went extinct. The original 10 mathhabs eventually became 4 mathhabs.

- The most fundamental disparity between these schools originates from their origination. That is, the fact that they all originated from two primary current of thoughts:
> Madrasat Ahl al-Athar (aka Ahl al-Hadith) = School of Tradition: centred in Medina, grew with the rise of the Maliki madhhab.
> Madrasat Ahl-Nathar (aka Ahl al-Ray) = School of Reasoning: centred in Kufa, grew with the rise of the Hanafi madhahab.
=> The rest of the madhahib came from these two schools. The Malikis are the most oriented towards Tradition, & the Hanafis are the most oriented towards Reasoning. That's why the Hanafi school is much more flexible & convenient for non-Arab & more diversified cultures, while the Maliki school works for more Arab & traditional cultures.

- Beside this fundamental disparity, there are some other fundamentals that are different between the mathahibs. Getting into these difference requires some qualifications, which I am not sure you have :) . So, I am just gonna be a little vague:

> The Malikis emphasis their methodology on the practices of the people of Medina (the city of the Prophet). Their reasoning is that Medina is home to the sons & daughters of the companions of the Prophet, & thus their practices are inherited from the companions, hence should be relied on. For example, there is a Hadith that mentions prayer should be performed hands crossed, & there is another that says the Prophet prayed hands down. Here the Malikis would see the practice of the people of Medina, & they prayed hands down. In this case, they would say, if the descendants of the companions prayed like that, then that entails that the companions did as well, which means the Prophet did as well. So, the Malikis would chose the opinion that says prayer should be done hands down.

> The Hanafis emphasis their approach on authentic Hadiths & they overly use reasoning in their methodology (such as natural law). The Hanafis are very logic oriented, thus they reject Hadiths that are not fully authentic. Their reasoning is that Hadiths are basis for legislation, & unless this basis is sure (i.e. authentic) then it can't have any legislative authority. Instead, they employ other ways, based on reason, to achieve their rulings. For example, there are some Hadiths on Dyyah (blood-money) of dhimmis, some indicate that it should be the same as for muslims, some indicate that it should be half that of muslims. The only issue here is that all these Hadiths are not fully authentic. So, whilst the other mathhabs take the Hadiths into consideration, the Hanafis reject them & instead base their opinion on the Qur'an, in such that it states the Dyyah is for any human being & doesn't make any difference between muslim or not-muslim.

> The Shafi'is are basically the middle way between the Malikis & the Hanafis. Imam Shafi'i (the founder) was the primary student of Imam Malik, so, his school owns a lot to the Malikis. The best way to describe the Shafi'i school is to say, as mentioned above, that it is situated between the Maliki school & the Hanafi school. The most distinct aspect of the Shafi'is is in that they are very theoretical in their approach. Imam Shafi'i being the first one to establish & systematic & complete corpus of Legal Theory in his book ar-Risala, he gave his followers a strong basis to navigate between scriptures & rulings.

> The Hanbalis are very conservative & the least likely to use reasoning (such as Qyas) in their approach. So, they emphasis their methodology on Hadiths, even if these are weak, & the opinons of the companions. While other mathhabs consider the opinions of the companions as ijitihadat (legal discretions) as valid as others (more or less), the Hanbalis are very cautious & chose not to deviate from these opinions as much as possible. They also reject Istihsan (legal reasoning outside scripture, such as natural law), whereas the other mathhabs don't (the Hanafis use it most, the Malikis use it less, the Shafi'is use it on a limited basis). Their reasoning is basically, 'better be safe than sorry'. Subsequently to this approach, they differ from other mathhabs in some other fundamental aspects. For instance, while other schools refer to bid'a (innovation) in matter concerning 'Aq'eedah (Theology) only & not in matter concerning Fiq'h, the Hanbalis consider innovation in 'Ibadat (Practices of Worship) bid'a as well. The Hanbalis would consider anything less or more than what the Prophet specifically & exactly designated in Worship bid'a. The other mathahib would say, if some is good, then more is good too, unless otherwise stated.

> The Zahiris, like the Hanafis, emphasis fully authentic Hadiths as well, but they couldn't be more appart from each-other. While the Hanafis replace the overly use of Hadiths with an overly use of Reason (mainly Qyas & Istihsan), the Zahiri reject both Qyas & Istihsan. Their reasoning is that, if there isn't a conclusive source of legislation (Qur'an or authentic Hadith) for an issue, than it's not our place to invent one. So they end up overly using general statements in the Qur'an or Hadith for way too many things, otherwise they leave it open, as in if there is nothing in Qur'an or Sunnah that directly prohibits or enjoyed a particular matter, then it must be permissible.

- I hope this gave you a general idea of what the different schools look like. If your question was meant for something else, then please specify.
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Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/10/2015 7:04:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:44:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

What are your thoughts on the five prominent Sunni schools of legal thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Zahiri) and the biggest issues which separate them from one another?

- I would also like to add that in each of these schools (the Four Mathhabs) there are sub-schools. In the Maliki Mathhab for example, there is: the Medinian school, the Iraqi school, the Egyptian school, the Q'ayrawani school, the Andalusi school & the Maghribi school. There are also differences between these sub-schools, but in a much finer level than those differences between the main mathhabs. These schools are essentially local versions (in time or place) of their respective mathhabds.

- Last post, "if there is nothing in Qur'an or Sunnah that directly prohibits or enjoyed a particular matter, then it must be permissible." >>> enjoined.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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8/10/2015 1:31:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 7:04:31 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:44:33 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

What are your thoughts on the five prominent Sunni schools of legal thought (Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Zahiri) and the biggest issues which separate them from one another?

- I would also like to add that in each of these schools (the Four Mathhabs) there are sub-schools. In the Maliki Mathhab for example, there is: the Medinian school, the Iraqi school, the Egyptian school, the Q'ayrawani school, the Andalusi school & the Maghribi school. There are also differences between these sub-schools, but in a much finer level than those differences between the main mathhabs. These schools are essentially local versions (in time or place) of their respective mathhabds.

- Last post, "if there is nothing in Qur'an or Sunnah that directly prohibits or enjoyed a particular matter, then it must be permissible." >>> enjoined.

Thanks, that's very helpful!
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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8/10/2015 3:48:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

If Allah created all men, is Allah not then immoral for allowing his creations to lie to or kill one another? Is Allah causing conflict and hatred between his creations as a result? Why then doesn't Allah prohibit all lying and killing like other deities and religious scholars?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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8/10/2015 4:17:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

I would like to hear how you explain the Caba Stone worship? Why it is not idolatry and against the rule about one true God?
Yassine
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8/11/2015 12:26:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 4:17:48 PM, 12_13 wrote:

I would like to hear how you explain the Caba Stone worship? Why it is not idolatry and against the rule about one true God?

- Who said anything about stone worship! What you're speaking of are rituals devoted to God.
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Yassine
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8/11/2015 12:30:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:31:01 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Thanks, that's very helpful!

- You're welcome.
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lotsoffun
Posts: 1,610
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8/11/2015 2:11:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

I have one important message for Islam. Islam has to learn to separate church and state. When it does this, it will take its place in the world and gain respect. Until then, it will not be trusted.
johannalam
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8/11/2015 7:49:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 3:48:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

If Allah created all men, is Allah not then immoral for allowing his creations to lie to or kill one another? Is Allah causing conflict and hatred between his creations as a result? Why then doesn't Allah prohibit all lying and killing like other deities and religious scholars?

Allah gave everyone free will. Everyone can do as they wish and it's these actions that will be judged on the day of judgment. It's like for example, why has everyone got different levels academically? If all teachers want their students to pass why can't the teachers just let them? Your free will, I suppose, determines your character, if you wish to lie and hate, no one is forcing you, just like no one is forcing you to be modest and humble. I'm not Muslim btw, that's just my opinion.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/11/2015 9:07:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 3:48:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

If Allah created all men, is Allah not then immoral for allowing his creations to lie to or kill one another? Is Allah causing conflict and hatred between his creations as a result? Why then doesn't Allah prohibit all lying and killing like other deities and religious scholars?

the answer to your questions can be summed in two words.

Free Will.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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8/11/2015 10:04:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/11/2015 7:49:54 PM, johannalam wrote:
At 8/10/2015 3:48:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

If Allah created all men, is Allah not then immoral for allowing his creations to lie to or kill one another? Is Allah causing conflict and hatred between his creations as a result? Why then doesn't Allah prohibit all lying and killing like other deities and religious scholars?

Allah gave everyone free will. Everyone can do as they wish and it's these actions that will be judged on the day of judgment.

Yes, a variety of religions have a day of judgment attached to them, it would appear we'll be standing before a long lineup of gods all wanting to judge us like some bizarre fraternity initiation.

Of course, Allah will have a very tough time judging anyone who lies or kills considering he allows it under certain circumstances.

It's like for example, why has everyone got different levels academically? If all teachers want their students to pass why can't the teachers just let them?

There are many reasons why students achieve various academic levels, none of which have anything to do with Allah's immoral teachings.

Your free will, I suppose, determines your character, if you wish to lie and hate, no one is forcing you, just like no one is forcing you to be modest and humble. I'm not Muslim btw, that's just my opinion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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8/12/2015 5:17:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/11/2015 9:07:10 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/10/2015 3:48:21 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/10/2015 1:37:36 AM, Yassine wrote:
Hello everyone,

- This thread shall be dedicated to discussing anything Islam related: Theology, Law, Shari'a, Scripture, History... On topics ranging from Women to Apostasy to Shirk to Sectarianism... to anything.

- Please share your thoughts & inquiries with civility & honesty. Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored.

Looking forward to your contributions.

If Allah created all men, is Allah not then immoral for allowing his creations to lie to or kill one another? Is Allah causing conflict and hatred between his creations as a result? Why then doesn't Allah prohibit all lying and killing like other deities and religious scholars?

the answer to your questions can be summed in two words.


Free Will.

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the question at all, perhaps you don't understand the question.

Since Yassine has not answered, I can assume he's still trying to come up with one that doesn't leave him with a contradiction.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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8/12/2015 5:31:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is it lack of faith in Islamists who fight for an Islamic State when as I have shown the new covenant has already been established between Islam and God and the prophecies fulfilled with the destruction of the Roman empire by the forces of Islam. What is missing in Muslim lives that they cannot enjoy such fulfillment of promises showered on them? Will they too prove ungrateful like the others in the end?

The Bible and the Quran prophesied the destruction of Rome. Jesus did not destroy Rome. Islam/Muslims did and by doing so fulfilled the prophecies.
Is Islam the new covenant promised? Jeremiah said the new covenant would be formed from the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But.....

"Perfect Covenant With Muhammad and His Followers
According to Islamic doctrine, both the Children of Israel and the Christians broke their respective covenants and corrupted their scriptures. By way of contrast, God's covenant with the prophet Muhammad and his followers is true and complete, calling believers back to the original divine covenant by reminding them of God's benevolence, teaching them his commandments, and promising the reward of paradise and forgiveness of sins for all who obey."

With 1.7 billion Muslims bound to the new covenant and the failure of Jesus to unite the Jews as their messiah illuminates the fulfilling of the promised new covenant with the followers of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Jeremiah's new covenant could not be established with a divided and weakened house of Israel and house of Judah after Jesus's demise. Besides the fall of Rome was prophesied so a new covenant with the Christians of the Roman Catholic order would be a contradiction. Islam earned the right by fulfilling the destruction of the Roman Empire by the armies of the Prophet Muhammad.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/13/2015 1:51:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 5:31:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Is it lack of faith in Islamists who fight for an Islamic State when as I have shown the new covenant has already been established between Islam and God and the prophecies fulfilled with the destruction of the Roman empire by the forces of Islam. What is missing in Muslim lives that they cannot enjoy such fulfillment of promises showered on them? Will they too prove ungrateful like the others in the end?

The Bible and the Quran prophesied the destruction of Rome. Jesus did not destroy Rome. Islam/Muslims did and by doing so fulfilled the prophecies.
Is Islam the new covenant promised? Jeremiah said the new covenant would be formed from the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But.....

"Perfect Covenant With Muhammad and His Followers
According to Islamic doctrine, both the Children of Israel and the Christians broke their respective covenants and corrupted their scriptures. By way of contrast, God's covenant with the prophet Muhammad and his followers is true and complete, calling believers back to the original divine covenant by reminding them of God's benevolence, teaching them his commandments, and promising the reward of paradise and forgiveness of sins for all who obey."

With 1.7 billion Muslims bound to the new covenant and the failure of Jesus to unite the Jews as their messiah illuminates the fulfilling of the promised new covenant with the followers of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Jeremiah's new covenant could not be established with a divided and weakened house of Israel and house of Judah after Jesus's demise. Besides the fall of Rome was prophesied so a new covenant with the Christians of the Roman Catholic order would be a contradiction. Islam earned the right by fulfilling the destruction of the Roman Empire by the armies of the Prophet Muhammad.

- I truly have not the slightest idea what you're trying to say!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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8/13/2015 2:26:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:51:59 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/12/2015 5:31:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Is it lack of faith in Islamists who fight for an Islamic State when as I have shown the new covenant has already been established between Islam and God and the prophecies fulfilled with the destruction of the Roman empire by the forces of Islam. What is missing in Muslim lives that they cannot enjoy such fulfillment of promises showered on them? Will they too prove ungrateful like the others in the end?

The Bible and the Quran prophesied the destruction of Rome. Jesus did not destroy Rome. Islam/Muslims did and by doing so fulfilled the prophecies.
Is Islam the new covenant promised? Jeremiah said the new covenant would be formed from the house of Israel and the house of Judah. But.....

"Perfect Covenant With Muhammad and His Followers
According to Islamic doctrine, both the Children of Israel and the Christians broke their respective covenants and corrupted their scriptures. By way of contrast, God's covenant with the prophet Muhammad and his followers is true and complete, calling believers back to the original divine covenant by reminding them of God's benevolence, teaching them his commandments, and promising the reward of paradise and forgiveness of sins for all who obey."

With 1.7 billion Muslims bound to the new covenant and the failure of Jesus to unite the Jews as their messiah illuminates the fulfilling of the promised new covenant with the followers of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Jeremiah's new covenant could not be established with a divided and weakened house of Israel and house of Judah after Jesus's demise. Besides the fall of Rome was prophesied so a new covenant with the Christians of the Roman Catholic order would be a contradiction. Islam earned the right by fulfilling the destruction of the Roman Empire by the armies of the Prophet Muhammad.

- I truly have not the slightest idea what you're trying to say!

That is too bad you have the slightest idea about covenants and prophesies both in the Bible and the Quran that have been honoured and fulfilled by Islam/Muslims which I have presented. There is little discussion on the prophesies made by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even though they are the inspiration behind the developments in the Middle East.
I just questioned the lack of faith in the Islamists who are rushing to bring about the Caliphate when they should be reassured by Muslims faithfully keeping the covenant that all things promised will also be fulfilled.
Jeremiah and Daniel spoke of a new covenant after the destruction of Jerusalem. The Christians believe they inherited the new covenant through Jesus, But the prophesy clearly states it will be made with the descendants of Israel. The Christians are not the descendants of Israel. The Jews forfeited their right by being unrepentant . Which leave the descendants of Ishmael the first born son Abraham the only remaining descendants of Israel who went on to multiply and bless many nations.
Try praying for knowledge instead of personal gratification.
Yassine
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8/13/2015 2:51:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:26:42 PM, Harikrish wrote:

That is too bad you have the slightest idea about covenants and prophesies both in the Bible and the Quran that have been honoured and fulfilled by Islam/Muslims which I have presented. There is little discussion on the prophesies made by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even though they are the inspiration behind the developments in the Middle East.
I just questioned the lack of faith in the Islamists who are rushing to bring about the Caliphate when they should be reassured by Muslims faithfully keeping the covenant that all things promised will also be fulfilled.
Jeremiah and Daniel spoke of a new covenant after the destruction of Jerusalem. The Christians believe they inherited the new covenant through Jesus, But the prophesy clearly states it will be made with the descendants of Israel. The Christians are not the descendants of Israel. The Jews forfeited their right by being unrepentant . Which leave the descendants of Ishmael the first born son Abraham the only remaining descendants of Israel who went on to multiply and bless many nations.
Try praying for knowledge instead of personal gratification.

- I am not gonna pretend to know what this covenant you speak of is. I am more interested in you line of reasoning. I can hardly see any progression of thought here. What is it exactly are you trying to say?! What is it that I should understand or deduce from your post?
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Harikrish
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8/13/2015 3:53:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:51:39 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:26:42 PM, Harikrish wrote:

That is too bad you have the slightest idea about covenants and prophesies both in the Bible and the Quran that have been honoured and fulfilled by Islam/Muslims which I have presented. There is little discussion on the prophesies made by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even though they are the inspiration behind the developments in the Middle East.
I just questioned the lack of faith in the Islamists who are rushing to bring about the Caliphate when they should be reassured by Muslims faithfully keeping the covenant that all things promised will also be fulfilled.
Jeremiah and Daniel spoke of a new covenant after the destruction of Jerusalem. The Christians believe they inherited the new covenant through Jesus, But the prophesy clearly states it will be made with the descendants of Israel. The Christians are not the descendants of Israel. The Jews forfeited their right by being unrepentant . Which leave the descendants of Ishmael the first born son Abraham the only remaining descendants of Israel who went on to multiply and bless many nations.
Try praying for knowledge instead of personal gratification.

- I am not gonna pretend to know what this covenant you speak of is. I am more interested in you line of reasoning. I can hardly see any progression of thought here. What is it exactly are you trying to say?! What is it that I should understand or deduce from your post?

Maybe if you spent less time with your backside raised higher than your head during prolonged prayers which only causes more blood to rush to your brains thereby clouding your judgement, you might be able to follow what is before you. There is already a jihad against ignorant Muslims.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/13/2015 4:36:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:53:31 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:51:39 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:26:42 PM, Harikrish wrote:

That is too bad you have the slightest idea about covenants and prophesies both in the Bible and the Quran that have been honoured and fulfilled by Islam/Muslims which I have presented. There is little discussion on the prophesies made by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even though they are the inspiration behind the developments in the Middle East.
I just questioned the lack of faith in the Islamists who are rushing to bring about the Caliphate when they should be reassured by Muslims faithfully keeping the covenant that all things promised will also be fulfilled.
Jeremiah and Daniel spoke of a new covenant after the destruction of Jerusalem. The Christians believe they inherited the new covenant through Jesus, But the prophesy clearly states it will be made with the descendants of Israel. The Christians are not the descendants of Israel. The Jews forfeited their right by being unrepentant . Which leave the descendants of Ishmael the first born son Abraham the only remaining descendants of Israel who went on to multiply and bless many nations.
Try praying for knowledge instead of personal gratification.

- I am not gonna pretend to know what this covenant you speak of is. I am more interested in you line of reasoning. I can hardly see any progression of thought here. What is it exactly are you trying to say?! What is it that I should understand or deduce from your post?

Maybe if you spent less time with your backside raised higher than your head during prolonged prayers which only causes more blood to rush to your brains thereby clouding your judgement, you might be able to follow what is before you.

- I do appreciate the sarcasm here. Quite funny. But, that doesn't change the fact that I still can't understand you even though I am trying to.

There is already a jihad against ignorant Muslims.

- See? That's what I am talking about. What "jihad against ignorant Muslims"??!!!
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Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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8/13/2015 5:42:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:36:04 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:53:31 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:51:39 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:26:42 PM, Harikrish wrote:

That is too bad you have the slightest idea about covenants and prophesies both in the Bible and the Quran that have been honoured and fulfilled by Islam/Muslims which I have presented. There is little discussion on the prophesies made by the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) even though they are the inspiration behind the developments in the Middle East.
I just questioned the lack of faith in the Islamists who are rushing to bring about the Caliphate when they should be reassured by Muslims faithfully keeping the covenant that all things promised will also be fulfilled.
Jeremiah and Daniel spoke of a new covenant after the destruction of Jerusalem. The Christians believe they inherited the new covenant through Jesus, But the prophesy clearly states it will be made with the descendants of Israel. The Christians are not the descendants of Israel. The Jews forfeited their right by being unrepentant . Which leave the descendants of Ishmael the first born son Abraham the only remaining descendants of Israel who went on to multiply and bless many nations.
Try praying for knowledge instead of personal gratification.

- I am not gonna pretend to know what this covenant you speak of is. I am more interested in you line of reasoning. I can hardly see any progression of thought here. What is it exactly are you trying to say?! What is it that I should understand or deduce from your post?

Maybe if you spent less time with your backside raised higher than your head during prolonged prayers which only causes more blood to rush to your brains thereby clouding your judgement, you might be able to follow what is before you.

- I do appreciate the sarcasm here. Quite funny. But, that doesn't change the fact that I still can't understand you even though I am trying to.

There is already a jihad against ignorant Muslims.

- See? That's what I am talking about. What "jihad against ignorant Muslims"??!!!

Again here you are oblivious to the facts on the ground because you only hear news of non-Muslims killed by the Islamists. The truth is more Muslims are being killed than non-Muslims by these jihadist groups. Translated. There is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.
You can also follow why Muslims are retaliating against these Islamists extremists who are considered ignorant as well by educated Muslims. So a jihad is being waged against ignorant jihadists who are Muslims. So on both fronts there is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/13/2015 10:38:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 5:42:31 PM, Harikrish wrote:

Again here you are oblivious to the facts on the ground because you only hear news of non-Muslims killed by the Islamists. The truth is more Muslims are being killed than non-Muslims by these jihadist groups. Translated. There is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.
You can also follow why Muslims are retaliating against these Islamists extremists who are considered ignorant as well by educated Muslims. So a jihad is being waged against ignorant jihadists who are Muslims. So on both fronts there is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.

- I got that, by far, the victims of terrorist groups are muslims. But, how is that related to Jihad & Ignorance? & what does that have to do with prophecies & covenants?!!
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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8/14/2015 5:48:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:44:56 PM, Yassine wrote:
Bump.

You're bringing this post back up? You didn't even answer my question.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/14/2015 5:53:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:48:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:44:56 PM, Yassine wrote:
Bump.

You're bringing this post back up? You didn't even answer my question.

- No, I didn't. I ignored it ("Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored"). If I thought a discussion with you would lead anywhere, I would've. Sadly, I don't think that's the case. Best of luck.
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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8/14/2015 5:57:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:53:51 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:48:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:44:56 PM, Yassine wrote:
Bump.

You're bringing this post back up? You didn't even answer my question.

- No, I didn't. I ignored it ("Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored"). If I thought a discussion with you would lead anywhere, I would've. Sadly, I don't think that's the case. Best of luck.

There was nothing hostile or fruitless, it was a legitimate question. But, since your rolodex of Islamic propaganda doesn't have a ready made answer, I'm assuming you are incapable of answering the question, yes?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MLC
Posts: 2
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8/14/2015 5:59:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How do you feel about the inherent oppression of women's rights in Islamic culture? Do you not feel that women are equal to men, and should be treated as such?

Obviously you could argue that women's rights are oppressed in all cultures to some degree, but Islam seems to take it further than most (and without questioning).
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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8/14/2015 9:47:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 10:38:45 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/13/2015 5:42:31 PM, Harikrish wrote:

Again here you are oblivious to the facts on the ground because you only hear news of non-Muslims killed by the Islamists. The truth is more Muslims are being killed than non-Muslims by these jihadist groups. Translated. There is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.
You can also follow why Muslims are retaliating against these Islamists extremists who are considered ignorant as well by educated Muslims. So a jihad is being waged against ignorant jihadists who are Muslims. So on both fronts there is a jihad against ignorant Muslims.

- I got that, by far, the victims of terrorist groups are muslims. But, how is that related to Jihad & Ignorance? & what does that have to do with prophecies & covenants?!!

It has everything to do with prophesies and covenants. Do you think the time for an Islamic state and the toppling of Islamic governments is just wishful thinking by some deluded Islamic extremists? It will be doomed to failure without the support of Muslims and the moral authority given to Muslims in the Quran. It is also the careful study of prophesies of the covenant that is driving the call to claim and fulfill what was promised.
Not everyone is given the understanding. But everyone is given a choice.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/14/2015 10:11:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:57:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:53:51 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:48:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:44:56 PM, Yassine wrote:
Bump.

You're bringing this post back up? You didn't even answer my question.

- No, I didn't. I ignored it ("Hostile or fruitless comments will be ignored"). If I thought a discussion with you would lead anywhere, I would've. Sadly, I don't think that's the case. Best of luck.

There was nothing hostile or fruitless, it was a legitimate question. But, since your rolodex of Islamic propaganda doesn't have a ready made answer, I'm assuming you are incapable of answering the question, yes?

- See? That's what I was taking about.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/14/2015 10:14:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 9:47:12 PM, Harikrish wrote:

It has everything to do with prophesies and covenants. Do you think the time for an Islamic state and the toppling of Islamic governments is just wishful thinking by some deluded Islamic extremists? It will be doomed to failure without the support of Muslims and the moral authority given to Muslims in the Quran. It is also the careful study of prophesies of the covenant that is driving the call to claim and fulfill what was promised.
Not everyone is given the understanding. But everyone is given a choice.

- Let me get this strait, you think IS are on some crusade to fulfil some prophetic prediction or some promise in an ancient covenant?!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...