Total Posts:9|Showing Posts:1-9
Jump to topic:

Are agnostics really atheists?

TUF
Posts: 21,309
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 12:35:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

How you live defines what you believe. If you live as if there is no God, then you are an atheist. If you live as if you are unsure, then you are agnostic, and if you live as if there is a God then you are a theist. It really doesn't matter what label you apply to yourself, or what you tell yourself you are.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 1:19:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

If you are not willing to call yourself a theist then you're an atheist. Agnostic is just a label people use because they are unwilling to accept that.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 1:22:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

I think I have heard Penn discussing agnostics although I can't remember exactly how he worded it. I agree an agnostic is technically an atheist because they have no belief in God.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 2:50:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

dont get too hung up on labels, my brother. they mean very little. its not like youhave to join a club or anything. just be honest with yourself. next time you see a baby laugh or watch a pretty sunset or marvel in nature or hear of somebody surviving a miraculous ordeal, or stand in awe at the beauty of nature, or read some of Jesus's sayings about God and Love. or see people like me who have had their lives turned around 180 degrees for the better due to no doing of my own. see all of that and think, "Meh. it's all means nothing and we her by pure chance like fungus growing on my sneakers and life has no meaning." think that and your a atheist. And if thats the case Im sorry.
But if you see all that and think "hmmm..maybe there is a chance at there being something bigger and more powerful than me out there" you are an agnostic. And thats a step closer in the right direction. God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 3:23:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

So the assertion is God exists. There are at least three responses people could have to this"

1. Theist: A person who believes that God exists
2. Atheist: A person who does not believe that God exists
3. Agnostic: A person who believes it is not possible to know whether God does or does not exist.

To believe that people are either atheists or theists is to accept a false dichotomy. There are likely many who claim to be agnostic that may better fit within the concept of an atheist, but there are many who are neither atheist or theist aka agnostic.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 4:23:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 12:22:46 AM, TUF wrote:
I actually came to this conclusion a few months ago, but it was also under very similar logic. I think that Penn makes a really good point and explains it better than I could.

I've been calling myself an agnostic for years but not I realize that not only do I not not "know" a God exists, but I also don't believe a God exists. Not believing in God doesn't mean you don't think one can exists, or doesn't exist. As Penn explains, I think there is only a small definitional or interpreted error between the two understandings.

What do you think? Any agnostics here that have a specific problem with calling themselves atheists?

Some are and some aren't. Hopefully I can clarify.

Atheist/theist is about what you believe or claim to believe. Agnostic/gnostic is about what you know or claim to know. So one word deals with your beliefs and the other deals with your knowledge.

Many people are agnostic atheists, meaning that they don't believe in a god or gods but they also recognize that they can not prove that there are positively no gods. They don't have knowledge of the non-existence of gods.

You can also be a gnostic athiest. A gnostic atheist claims that not only do they believe that there are no gods, but that they know that there are no gods.

Theists can be agnostic as well. Believing in a god but admitting that you don't know for sure, and/or that you don't know anything about that god. A gnostic theist is a person who believes in god and also knows that that god exists, and/or knows specific things about that god's nature. Their knowledge can be wrong, but to them its still knowledge.

Belief and knowledge are two separate things. They affect each other a great deal, but they are distinct from one another as well.

For practical everyday purposes we don't need to go into so much detail when describing our labels. But when discussing the finer points of knowledge and belief, these distinctions become important.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 4:36:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
An atheist is someone who denies the existence of absolute truth.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't claim to know anything.

Agnosticism is an enlightened position that doesn't make any claims. Atheism is a position that makes an assertion, and it is a foolish assertion at that.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/12/2015 4:47:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 4:36:51 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
An atheist is someone who denies the existence of absolute truth.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't claim to know anything.


Agnosticism is an enlightened position that doesn't make any claims. Atheism is a position that makes an assertion, and it is a foolish assertion at that.

So, what you're saying is that you have no idea what atheism and agnosticism are about. Perhaps, you should ask or look it up before making silly comments.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth