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really awkward topic...

gerrandesquire
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8/30/2010 7:13:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
please just read this description with an open mind and then comment, discuss, and give your opinions...

So lately, my father has been into astrology.

Astrology: the science of predicting the future, present and past of a person by considering the configuration of stars and planets at the time of birth. Anyway, in the beginning, i was not really convinced of anything. I never took anything he said really seriously, and i was like, i didn't have any opinion about it.

So, out of curiosity, really (i really like reading how my future might shape up), i asked him to cast my horoscope. And he did that, and accurately predicted a lot of my past. And i really was shocked because there is no way he could have known a lot of what he predicted. Like last year, i did a really stupid mistake, which lead to a 'loss of my reputation', as he worded it, and it was true.He predicted a lot more things actually, and they were true.

I have started to seriously consider the legitimacy of this science. So, now the question is, was that a coincidence? i mean, what are your opinions on horoscope casting, and the science of astrology in general. Do you believe in it?
gerrandesquire
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8/30/2010 7:24:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:19:21 AM, Zetsubou wrote:

This shouldn't be in the religion section.

i wasn't sure where to put it. religion was the closest, it doesn't seem a miscell kind of post.

No, and nor should you.
reasons? i mean, it predicted quite a lot, correctly.
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
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8/30/2010 7:26:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:13:00 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
please just read this description with an open mind and then comment, discuss, and give your opinions...

So lately, my father has been into astrology.

Astrology: the science of predicting the future, present and past of a person by considering the configuration of stars and planets at the time of birth. Anyway, in the beginning, i was not really convinced of anything. I never took anything he said really seriously, and i was like, i didn't have any opinion about it.

So, out of curiosity, really (i really like reading how my future might shape up), i asked him to cast my horoscope. And he did that, and accurately predicted a lot of my past. And i really was shocked because there is no way he could have known a lot of what he predicted. Like last year, i did a really stupid mistake, which lead to a 'loss of my reputation', as he worded it, and it was true.He predicted a lot more things actually, and they were true.

I have started to seriously consider the legitimacy of this science. So, now the question is, was that a coincidence? i mean, what are your opinions on horoscope casting, and the science of astrology in general. Do you believe in it?

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.
mattrodstrom
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8/30/2010 7:31:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:13:00 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
please just read this description with an open mind and then comment, discuss, and give your opinions...

So lately, my father has been into astrology.

sorry can't do it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
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8/30/2010 7:32:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:24:56 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:19:21 AM, Zetsubou wrote:

This shouldn't be in the religion section.

i wasn't sure where to put it. religion was the closest, it doesn't seem a miscell kind of post.
Science. (Pseudo-sceience)
No, and nor should you.
reasons? i mean, it predicted quite a lot, correctly.
The former hypostases were proven to be incorrect.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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8/30/2010 7:38:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
There is only one sense in which fortune telling is a science, which is that is often uses quite ingenious psychological or statistical methods to trick people into thinking it's genuine. It's less of a mere coincidence and more the fact that horoscope casting is incredibly vague while sounding precise so that people who have their horoscopes cast subconsciously attempt to match it to events in their life while ignoring everything that doesn't fit.

Watch some Derren Brown.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.
Zetsubou
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8/30/2010 7:41:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

Cold reading.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
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8/30/2010 7:41:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

You are, of course, taking the pi55?
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 7:45:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:38:20 AM, Kinesis wrote:
There is only one sense in which fortune telling is a science, which is that is often uses quite ingenious psychological or statistical methods to trick people into thinking it's genuine. It's less of a mere coincidence and more the fact that horoscope casting is incredibly vague while sounding precise so that people who have their horoscopes cast subconsciously attempt to match it to events in their life while ignoring everything that doesn't fit.

Okay, this does fit to a lot of circumstances, but take for example the objective readings. Like, if someone can tell you, by 'the position of your planets and their effect on your life and mind and house', the exact position of your furniture, tv, light entering your house, etc. That is not vague, and astrology can predict it. so that seems, plausible?
gerrandesquire
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8/30/2010 7:46:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:41:39 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

You are, of course, taking the pi55?

pi55?
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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8/30/2010 7:47:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:46:43 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:41:39 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

You are, of course, taking the pi55?

pi55?
Pi$$.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
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8/30/2010 7:47:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
When I first read this thread I really thought it was someone trying to prove how little attention people pay to what they read. A bit like the brouhaha that occurred with the wonderful Bonsai Kittens item but now I'm not sure.

OF COURSE your father will be able to "predict" your past but the word isn't predict, it's recount.

Plainly your old man knows a whole lot more about you than you think he does.

When my son was in his teens he really thought that I didn't know what he was getting up to. He also totally failed to realise that there's nothing new and that whet he was up to wouldn't be a million miles different from what I got up to, or that the same sort of things happened to him as happened to me.

So there's nothing in the least bit odd about your dad knowing things about tou, if anything it shows what a caring old man you have.

Astrology? A load of cobblers (rhyming slang – look it up) It's nothing more than you have a very savvy father. You're lucky, respect him, he deserves it.
gerrandesquire
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8/30/2010 7:48:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:41:01 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

Cold reading.

cold reading? (i need to work on my vocabulary)
gerrandesquire
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8/30/2010 7:54:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:47:50 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
When I first read this thread I really thought it was someone trying to prove how little attention people pay to what they read. A bit like the brouhaha that occurred with the wonderful Bonsai Kittens item but now I'm not sure.

OF COURSE your father will be able to "predict" your past but the word isn't predict, it's recount.

okay.

Plainly your old man knows a whole lot more about you than you think he does.


When my son was in his teens he really thought that I didn't know what he was getting up to. He also totally failed to realise that there's nothing new and that whet he was up to wouldn't be a million miles different from what I got up to, or that the same sort of things happened to him as happened to me.

So there's nothing in the least bit odd about your dad knowing things about tou, if anything it shows what a caring old man you have.

He can't have known. i'm positive of that.

Astrology? A load of cobblers (rhyming slang – look it up) It's nothing more than you have a very savvy father. You're lucky, respect him, he deserves it.

okay, well you don't believe in it. neither did I. but i do now, well not actually believe in it, per se, but starting to question the possibility that it might not be as dingy as i thought it to be. It might be right.
Zetsubou
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8/30/2010 7:55:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:48:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:41:01 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

Cold reading.

cold reading? (i need to work on my vocabulary)

Technical term.

It doesn't mean, cold as in ice cold or temperature cold. It's a technique/skill used by various illusionists to trick people. You look at a person and learn things about them. You analyse or learn from the person's body language, age, fashion sense, sex, religion, race, level of education, manner of speech, place of origin, etc. It's just really guess work.

Do you understand it now?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
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8/30/2010 7:55:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:54:15 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
okay, well you don't believe in it. neither did I. but i do now, well not actually believe in it, per se, but starting to question the possibility that it might not be as dingy as i thought it to be. It might be right.

have you watched the video posted there yet?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 7:59:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:55:19 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:54:15 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
okay, well you don't believe in it. neither did I. but i do now, well not actually believe in it, per se, but starting to question the possibility that it might not be as dingy as i thought it to be. It might be right.

have you watched the video posted there yet?

yes, i have, but that doesn't apply here. He kind of gives objective readings too.
mattrodstrom
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8/30/2010 8:06:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:59:45 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
He kind of gives objective readings too.

the reading of the video mentions "starting to write a book"...

that's pretty objective... and yet almost everyone still bought it.

maybe the "objective" things are things that describe a lot of people... or maybe some hit and some don't?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 8:07:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:55:09 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:48:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:41:01 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/30/2010 7:39:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:

I absolutely believe in the power that people have, especially close relatives, to predict ones past. The closer they are the closer to the truth the prediction will be.

And if he predicts for people who have no relation to him? He does this professionally, so he does predict for strangers too, but i have been in this state of confusion when he predicted my past.

Cold reading.

cold reading? (i need to work on my vocabulary)

Technical term.

It doesn't mean, cold as in ice cold or temperature cold. It's a technique/skill used by various illusionists to trick people. You look at a person and learn things about them. You analyse or learn from the person's body language, age, fashion sense, sex, religion, race, level of education, manner of speech, place of origin, etc. It's just really guess work.

Do you understand it now?

yes, i do now, thanks :-)

So, if someone who has never been to your house, and never even talked to you, tells you the placement of Tv, computer, and other furnitures in your house, would you still call it guesswork? Wont you question yourself and your non-belief in it?

That's all i'm saying. If presented with a man who predicted this much, and told you the placement of furniture in your house, Would you believe in astrology?
Kinesis
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8/30/2010 8:33:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 8:07:51 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
So, if someone who has never been to your house, and never even talked to you, tells you the placement of Tv, computer, and other furnitures in your house, would you still call it guesswork? Wont you question yourself and your non-belief in it?

In that circumstance, there are still more rational explanations at hand. He might have seen pictures of your house - hell, those things are pretty common items, you could probably guestimate where they are in any given house.

Even if you can't think of an explanation, the belief that the planets somehow have a causal link with the arrangement of furniture in your house is so absurd that you're better off assuming there's a better explanation and you just don't know it yet.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/30/2010 8:46:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The lead skeptic, Michael Shermer, tested an astrologer who used an ancient Hindu method and the man passed the tests that demonstrated the efficacy.

(Btw, I'm not an astrologer)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 8:55:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 8:33:18 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 8/30/2010 8:07:51 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
So, if someone who has never been to your house, and never even talked to you, tells you the placement of Tv, computer, and other furnitures in your house, would you still call it guesswork? Wont you question yourself and your non-belief in it?

In that circumstance, there are still more rational explanations at hand. He might have seen pictures of your house - hell, those things are pretty common items, you could probably guestimate where they are in any given house.

well, he hasn't seen the picture, but about the items being common, well, still the probability of predicting the exact position is 1 in 8, and 100% accuracy in it would of course mean it is more than a guesstimation.

Even if you can't think of an explanation, the belief that the planets somehow have a causal link with the arrangement of furniture in your house is so absurd that you're better off assuming there's a better explanation and you just don't know it yet.

well, astrology states that the effect of different planets and their relative position has a direct effect on the mind of people, which can be directly seen by the way they arrange their furniture. i can't just assume their is a better explanation till i at least hear that explanation first, can i?
mattrodstrom
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8/30/2010 8:58:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 8:55:33 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/30/2010 8:33:18 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 8/30/2010 8:07:51 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
So, if someone who has never been to your house, and never even talked to you, tells you the placement of Tv, computer, and other furnitures in your house, would you still call it guesswork? Wont you question yourself and your non-belief in it?

In that circumstance, there are still more rational explanations at hand. He might have seen pictures of your house - hell, those things are pretty common items, you could probably guestimate where they are in any given house.

well, he hasn't seen the picture, but about the items being common, well, still the probability of predicting the exact position is 1 in 8, and 100% accuracy in it would of course mean it is more than a guesstimation.

Even if you can't think of an explanation, the belief that the planets somehow have a causal link with the arrangement of furniture in your house is so absurd that you're better off assuming there's a better explanation and you just don't know it yet.

well, astrology states that the effect of different planets and their relative position has a direct effect on the mind of people, which can be directly seen by the way they arrange their furniture. i can't just assume their is a better explanation till i at least hear that explanation first, can i?

that explanation's silly.

one that's not is that the dude has looked at your room.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/30/2010 8:59:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 7:38:20 AM, Kinesis wrote:
It's less of a mere coincidence and more the fact that horoscope casting is incredibly vague while sounding precise.

Disclaimer: I don't adhere to astrology as fact in any way, but I tend not to understand this point which you hear echoed by skeptics all the time. Let's look at some astrological descriptions...

ARIES --> Adventurous; Courageous; Clever; Confident; Sharp; Quick-minded; Witty; Passionate; Strong; Quick-tempered; Abrasive; Impulsive; Selfish; Risk-taker; Leader; Relentless; Egoist.

PISCES --> Sensitive; Cautious; Compassionate; Selfless; Intuitive; Sympathetic; Weak-willed; Easily led; Impractical; Vague; Kind.

In other words, these 2 descriptions -- next to each other on the Zodiac -- reveal very different characters. I, of course, am an Aries lol. Barely any of the qualities associated with Pisces apply to me. Now while that does not necessarily make me a believer in any way, I think it's kind of a lie to say that all astrological descriptions are vague and applicable to all people. Clearly those 2 present near opposite descriptions meaning both cannot apply to 1 person... at least not to me... amirite? Sure everyone can exhibit qualities of both but my point is that astrology seems to be a little more consistent than people give it credit for. There are other (better) ways to disprove it, imo.
President of DDO
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/30/2010 9:04:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/30/2010 8:46:29 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The lead skeptic, Michael Shermer, tested an astrologer who used an ancient Hindu method and the man passed the tests that demonstrated the efficacy.

(Btw, I'm not an astrologer)

A ray of hope:-)

Do you believe in it?