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God of the gaps

janesix
Posts: 3,465
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8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?
Alpha3141
Posts: 154
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8/12/2015 7:02:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

What do you mean by a "God of the gaps" argument?
janesix
Posts: 3,465
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8/12/2015 7:08:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:02:36 PM, Alpha3141 wrote:
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

What do you mean by a "God of the gaps" argument?

God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. The term was invented by Christian theologians not to discredit theism but rather to point out the fallacy of relying on teleological arguments for God's existence.[1] Some use the phrase to refer to a form of the argument from ignorance fallacy. wikipedia
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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8/12/2015 7:19:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

I really don't think there is. I think the whole god concept was invented just for the purpose of explaining the unknown. Any argument I've ever heard always boils down to a god of the gaps or argument from ignorance.
Alpha3141
Posts: 154
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8/12/2015 7:22:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:08:02 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/12/2015 7:02:36 PM, Alpha3141 wrote:
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

What do you mean by a "God of the gaps" argument?

God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. The term was invented by Christian theologians not to discredit theism but rather to point out the fallacy of relying on teleological arguments for God's existence.[1] Some use the phrase to refer to a form of the argument from ignorance fallacy. wikipedia

Ok
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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8/12/2015 9:12:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

There is always gaps in any narrative. Science, Math, Theologies, Military Tactics ect... Everything comes to completion by the addition of certain assumptions.

Most the time this 'God of the gaps' argument is from a position that we should reserve judgement about God till science has a consensus on It. Which denies reasonable justification in favor of what a particular system tentatively concludes.
j50wells
Posts: 345
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8/13/2015 12:03:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There are many arguments for God that have nothing to do with the gaps of evolution. But, even if the gaps were all filled up, the Christians would look for more gaps. They grasp to save their religion. In a panic they try to shore up their defenses.
There really aren't anymore convincing arguments for God. Almost every question has been answered. The only question still up for debate is where the universe came from. Since it started so long ago, and started out so small, there is no way of telling what or who started it. Christians will say, "See...see, someone had to start the universe." And when you ask them who started their God you get, "He's the perfect one who never had a beginning." Oh really? How scientific. Or is it just wishful thinking?
When we wrestle with time and the universe even more we realize that we have absolutely no way of knowing anything outside our present universe and outside of time and space. Since most scientists believe that there was never not anything, and that there has probably always been something, they have come to a belief in a multi-verse, and that this multi-verse may be infinite, with no time. Our universe was just one bubble of time and space that came out of that multi-verse. In ten billion more years it will be a dying universe, but there are millions of other universes popping in and out of existence. This kind of thinking helps us realize how small even the universe is, and how short 13 billion years is compared to a multi-verse, if there is one.
The multi-verse is a hypothesis. Through quantum physics and string theory, scientists are coming closer to figuring out exactly what is outside our universe.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/13/2015 2:38:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Understanding how information gets filtered through our senses, our sub-conscious, and our conscious thought can definitely be used as a case for God. It sheds light to the nature of what makes up creation. How can you understand what is uncreated if you don't understand creation? As long as you think that God is a material thing, you are going to have a great deal of difficulty grasping the concept. God represents something that is fundamentally beyond relativity, what is true independent of any bias. Human beings at best can only understand things objectively from a relativistic standpoint. God would be the true absolute, that true constant, that highest truth.

Calling attention to our ignorance only shows that there is more to learn, and the attitude of agnosticism is actually beneficial to a scientist for things even unrelated to God.

Really though, anyone who denies or even questions God is ignorant to begin with, because God is meant to represent something that can't possibly be denied if you understand what the concept represents.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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8/13/2015 3:30:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I wonder if you godbotherers can insert your god into the ToE?
I would be impressed beyond anything you are capable being IMPRESSED.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
12_13
Posts: 1,362
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8/13/2015 8:06:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

One argument for God is that we have the Bible. If God would not have influenced as the Bible tells, I don"t think we would have the Bible and believers who are willing to die because of the message (and no, it is not same to kill fearlessly others and make suicide as to not use violence even when others do evil things).

Is Bible also of the gaps argument?

I don"t believe in the Bible because it can give explanation, but because I find it to be true.

Do you believe in the Evolution theory, because it gives godless explanation for species? Isn"t evolution (=Mother Earth) god of the gaps? At least there are so many missing links that it should be called god of the gaps. :)
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/13/2015 9:01:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

Not for Atheists there aren't. Anything we Beleivers say they'll call it a GOTG argument. I believe in the mechanics of Evolution that the Atheists do. I just think God drove it all and kicked it off. Theistic Evolution. funny thing about what the non-believers think of GOTG. the fact is that its their materialist Theory of Evolution that has so MANY gaps in it that it NEEDS a Creator in them to let the whole thing make sense. so what they mock as a Believer's tactic is really a necessity to their own theory. it's like if I try to explain to a "A-gravity-ist (LOL...somebody who thinks gravity is a myth) about how the solar system works. I talk about gravitational pull that defines orbits. they say "Ahh there you go with your "gravity of the Gaps" thinking agan!" see what I mean? we HAVE to put a Designer in there for it to make sense just like you need to put Gravity in that orbital explanastion for IT to work. same deal.

God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/13/2015 9:12:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:30:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
I wonder if you godbotherers can insert your god into the ToE?
I would be impressed beyond anything you are capable being IMPRESSED.

Hard to do since there IS NO Theory of Everything or GUT (Grand Unified Theory) among professional physicist at present time. So as a believer I could take your dummy OP challenge and just as easy say "you atheists STILL dont have a TOE yet after all these years and even are going backwards because now we dont even know how to find a electron and a atom isnt what you thought all this time!"

But I wont do that because unlike you I dont attack for no reason. nor do I make challenges when I dont know what Im talking about in the first place.

The discovery of the Higgs Boson at the LHC in CERN a couple years ago was a step in getting a TOE. but they still need to find that pesky Graviton. and Dark Energy/Matter is still a thorn in Science's Side. LOL
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/14/2015 3:26:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 9:01:21 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/12/2015 7:01:23 PM, janesix wrote:
Are there any TRULY definite arguments for God that are not merely "God of the gaps" arguments in disguise?

I believe in the mechanics of Evolution that the Atheists do. I just think God drove it all and kicked it off.

Posted: 1 day ago
At 8/12/2015 7:02:36 PM, Alpha3141 wrote:
What do you mean by a "God of the gaps" argument?

Janesix's response was very good.

If you need an example, look at August_Burns_Red's comments regarding evolution:
"I just think God drove it all and kicked it off"

August_Burns_Red cannot conceive how life could have started so he perceives it as a gap in knowledge. Therefore goddidit.

August_Burns_Red cannot conceive how evolution could just work on its own so he perceives it as a gap in knowledge. Therefore goddidit.

But it not just christians - it's one of the driving forces behind all religions.

Gap (many years ago) - What causes lightning?
In Slavic mythology the highest god of the pantheon is Perun, the god of thunder and lightning.
Raijin (&647;神) is a god of lightning, thunder and storms in the Shinto religion.

goddidit

Anything that the science of the times could not explain to the satisfaction of the people and the priests - goddidit.
Think
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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8/14/2015 3:33:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 9:12:58 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:30:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
I wonder if you godbotherers can insert your god into the ToE?
I would be impressed beyond anything you are capable being IMPRESSED.

Hard to do since there IS NO Theory of Everything or GUT (Grand Unified Theory) among professional physicist at present time. So as a believer I could take your dummy OP challenge and just as easy say "you atheists STILL dont have a TOE yet after all these years and even are going backwards because now we dont even know how to find a electron and a atom isnt what you thought all this time!"

But I wont do that because unlike you I dont attack for no reason. nor do I make challenges when I dont know what Im talking about in the first place.

The discovery of the Higgs Boson at the LHC in CERN a couple years ago was a step in getting a TOE. but they still need to find that pesky Graviton. and Dark Energy/Matter is still a thorn in Science's Side. LOL
The ToE is the Theory of Evolution, no gravitons or higgs bosun needed.
But do carry on.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin