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It's Really OK for Christians to Judge others

August_Burns_Red
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8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.

. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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8/13/2015 4:00:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
Guess he never read about "Judge not lest ye be Judged" eh? figures.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/13/2015 4:06:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:00:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
Guess he never read about "Judge not lest ye be Judged" eh? figures.

maybe these fit you a bit better?

http://www.openbible.info...
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/13/2015 4:19:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

The fruit of a person who follows Christ is sinlessness.

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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8/13/2015 4:21:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:06:16 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/13/2015 4:00:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
Guess he never read about "Judge not lest ye be Judged" eh? figures.

maybe these fit you a bit better?

http://www.openbible.info...

Hoisted on his own petard and completely oblivious.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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8/13/2015 4:41:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

According to the story the reasoning is given for that whole don't judge thing, f*ck it's on the very next line............

" Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

So if you accept this reasoning, since the same standard you use is going to be used on yourself, you should be careful what standard you use lest you end up f*cking yourself right up the a$$.

For example, if you condemn people who make bullsh*t arguments yet even when shown and explained REFUSE to make said correction, then when your own bullsh*t arguments are shown wrong and you refuse to make the correction...............well your condemned.

As such when I point out an error in your reasoning and I explain it to you..................your going to accept it right ? Cause I just get the feeling your the kind of person who is unaware of various faulty reasoning that is used to justify all sorts of religious beliefs.

But its ok I am here to help...................sort of.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
RuvDraba
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8/13/2015 10:09:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.

As an atheist I can't answer theologically, August, but I can offer a secularly-defensible answer that may be of interest.

I think it's not only okay for Christians to judge others morally and ethically; I think it's unethical if they don't. HOWEVER, Christians have no right to judge others theologically.

Let me try and illustrate the difference.

If you suspect that your next-door neighbour is beating his wife or molesting his child, you can and should do something about that. Regardless of whether you can find scriptural support for doing so (and you surely could), a failure to do something to ensure the safety of a vulnerable neighbour is a moral and ethical failure by any reasonable secular standard. If you happen to find a scriptural admonition to do something about it, fine -- as long as what's done is sensitive, respectful, evidence-based, and accountable for the impacts of acting and of failing to act. I believe most Christians would have no problems reconciling this (except possibly priests under the sanctity of the Confessional.)

But let's pick another example... Suppose your next-door neighbours are gay, they wish to have a wedding celebration at home and for reasons of scriptural exception you decide to oppose this with every legal means available -- including making vexatious complaints about noise, getting Christian friends to occupy parking spots so their guests have to park blocks away, disrupting their ceremony with loud gospel music, and perhaps even putting signs out the front of your home quoting Leviticus.

Sure, all of those actions may be legal, and some may be constitutionally defended as human rights. But none of them are moral in any reasonable sense of secular morality, and very few of them are ethically defensible. Essentially, it's the imposition of theocratic supremacism on your fellow man.

Hence my answer: yes, you absolutely DO have the right to judge -- on any reasonable accountable, transparent evidential, and secular basis -- whether or not those judgements have theological support -- and I suspect that most will, because like most world faiths, core Christian values are also values of secular decency.

But no, you absolutely do NOT have the moral or ethical right to judge theologically. Kindly keep your personal faith personal.

I realise more than one element of this position may be contentious. I hope it may be interesting though.
skipsaweirdo
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8/13/2015 10:23:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 10:09:15 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.

As an atheist I can't answer theologically, August, but I can offer a secularly-defensible answer that may be of interest.

I think it's not only okay for Christians to judge others morally and ethically; I think it's unethical if they don't. HOWEVER, Christians have no right to judge others theologically.

Let me try and illustrate the difference.

If you suspect that your next-door neighbour is beating his wife or molesting his child, you can and should do something about that. Regardless of whether you can find scriptural support for doing so (and you surely could), a failure to do something to ensure the safety of a vulnerable neighbour is a moral and ethical failure by any reasonable secular standard. If you happen to find a scriptural admonition to do something about it, fine -- as long as what's done is sensitive, respectful, evidence-based, and accountable for the impacts of acting and of failing to act. I believe most Christians would have no problems reconciling this (except possibly priests under the sanctity of the Confessional.)

But let's pick another example... Suppose your next-door neighbours are gay, they wish to have a wedding celebration at home and for reasons of scriptural exception you decide to oppose this with every legal means available -- including making vexatious complaints about noise, getting Christian friends to occupy parking spots so their guests have to park blocks away, disrupting their ceremony with loud gospel music, and perhaps even putting signs out the front of your home quoting Leviticus.

Sure, all of those actions may be legal, and some may be constitutionally defended as human rights. But none of them are moral in any reasonable sense of secular morality, and very few of them are ethically defensible. Essentially, it's the imposition of theocratic supremacism on your fellow man.

Hence my answer: yes, you absolutely DO have the right to judge -- on any reasonable accountable, transparent evidential, and secular basis -- whether or not those judgements have theological support -- and I suspect that most will, because like most world faiths, core Christian values are also values of secular decency.

But no, you absolutely do NOT have the moral or ethical right to judge theologically. Kindly keep your personal faith personal.

I realise more than one element of this position may be contentious. I hope it may be interesting though.

I think some people conflate the judging of behavior in society as opposed to the judging of the disposition of the soul. The verse you refer to, Judge not lest ye be judged directly refers to the judging of what will result in condemnation of the soul.
RuvDraba
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8/13/2015 10:31:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 10:23:42 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/13/2015 10:09:15 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Yes, you absolutely DO have the right to judge -- on any reasonable accountable, transparent evidential, and secular basis -- whether or not those judgements have theological support -- and I suspect that most will, because like most world faiths, core Christian values are also values of secular decency.

But no, you absolutely do NOT have the moral or ethical right to judge theologically. Kindly keep your personal faith personal.

I realise more than one element of this position may be contentious. I hope it may be interesting though.

I think some people conflate the judging of behavior in society as opposed to the judging of the disposition of the soul. The verse you refer to, Judge not lest ye be judged directly refers to the judging of what will result in condemnation of the soul.

As someone who doesn't feel that a soul is sufficiently well-defined or evidenced enough to even be considered as a conjecture, I'm afraid that doesn't mean much to me, Skips. :)

But from a secular perspective: sure, walking around poo-pooing others like some sanctimonious snob isn't the best for one's moral or intellectual development, yet it's hardly the worst thing one might do.

But by the same token, communities only ever work on shared morality and mutual commitment. If we don't identify clearly what morality means, and are not visible, active and committed toward one another, we have no community at all. (Does it shock some of my theistic colleagues to see an atheist write that? Well I actually believe it, so there. :D)

From a secular perspective, I see no problem identifying and reacting to bad behaviour, yet reconciling that with letting people be whoever they need to be. Secularism embraces pluralism and core community values just fine.

Whether monotheistic theology can do so though... that's open to debate, but unquestionably, it has to try.
JJ50
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8/13/2015 10:42:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Of course it isn't ok for Christians to judge others as they are no better than the rest of us. The extreme Christians are often very nasty indeed, especially when the evil idiots threaten others with hell if they don't see it their way!
graceofgod
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8/13/2015 11:02:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I guess you need to define judging.. There is only one judge...

But we are told to spread the gospel... and help others understand...
JJ50
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8/13/2015 11:05:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 11:02:41 AM, graceofgod wrote:
I guess you need to define judging.. There is only one judge...

But we are told to spread the gospel... and help others understand...

You and others like you bring the faith into disrepute with your GARBAGE! I reckon if Jesus was around today he might not be very thrilled with what some extremists claim in his name! 'Depart from me for I never knew you', might just be aimed at people like you!
graceofgod
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8/13/2015 11:08:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 11:05:50 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 11:02:41 AM, graceofgod wrote:
I guess you need to define judging.. There is only one judge...

But we are told to spread the gospel... and help others understand...

You and others like you bring the faith into disrepute with your GARBAGE! I reckon if Jesus was around today he might not be very thrilled with what some extremists claim in his name! 'Depart from me for I never knew you', might just be aimed at people like you!

or on the other hand he will be pleased his gospel is being spread....
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/13/2015 11:09:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:21:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 8/13/2015 4:06:16 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:

At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
Guess he never read about "Judge not lest ye be Judged" eh? figures.

Hoisted on his own petard and completely oblivious.

hoist with one's own petard, which means "to be harmed by one's own plan to harm someone else" or "to fall into one's own trap,"

ob"liv"i"ous
not aware of what is happening around one.
synonyms:unaware of, unconscious of, heedless of, unmindful of, insensible of/to, unheeding of, ignorant of, incognizant of, blind to, deaf to, unsuspecting of, unobservant of


Good one.
Think
DanneJeRusse
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8/13/2015 2:15:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and rebuke your brother. But, since we are not part of your brotherhood, it does not apply to us.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
dhardage
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8/13/2015 2:26:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:15:10 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and rebuke your brother. But, since we are not part of your brotherhood, it does not apply to us.

Danne beat me to it. I'm not your brother in any shape, way, form, or fashion. Our only relationship is that we are both of the same species.
August_Burns_Red
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8/13/2015 8:02:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:26:20 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:15:10 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and rebuke your brother. But, since we are not part of your brotherhood, it does not apply to us.

Danne beat me to it. I'm not your brother in any shape, way, form, or fashion. Our only relationship is that we are both of the same species.

well, you are my brother in God's eyes but Im sure you dont get that. which is a shame. I recall well that feeling of separation and anger from me atheist days. I get it! and dont worry, Im pretty much done with arguing with the atheists on this forum as I said in my OP. I can do that right here with real live and more interesting and knowladgable people in my Box and other places. where we actually discuss and have mutual respect. unlike, say, here. I need to spend more time in the Word with my fellow Christians here on DDO. and so it shall be done.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
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8/13/2015 8:06:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:41:21 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

According to the story the reasoning is given for that whole don't judge thing, f*ck it's on the very next line............

" Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

So if you accept this reasoning, since the same standard you use is going to be used on yourself, you should be careful what standard you use lest you end up f*cking yourself right up the a$$.

For example, if you condemn people who make bullsh*t arguments yet even when shown and explained REFUSE to make said correction, then when your own bullsh*t arguments are shown wrong and you refuse to make the correction...............well your condemned.

As such when I point out an error in your reasoning and I explain it to you..................your going to accept it right ? Cause I just get the feeling your the kind of person who is unaware of various faulty reasoning that is used to justify all sorts of religious beliefs.

But its ok I am here to help...................sort of.

Ill be glad to discuss anytime when you think I made an error. but judging by your post and your vulgar language--which I reported, BTW--I doubt it would be a respectful critique worthy of my time. you sound like your about 14 years old. are you? if you have nothing helpful to contribute to me thoughts on God and Christ I suggest you go back to your video games and masturbating to internet porn while Mom is upstairs cooking you your macaroni and cheese. also go easy on the Mt. Dew, that sugar will make you fat. (er.) exercise more and get outside! I wish you could come here to my Box! THAT would be fun.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
August_Burns_Red
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8/13/2015 8:10:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 10:09:15 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.

As an atheist I can't answer theologically, August, but I can offer a secularly-defensible answer that may be of interest.

I think it's not only okay for Christians to judge others morally and ethically; I think it's unethical if they don't. HOWEVER, Christians have no right to judge others theologically.

Let me try and illustrate the difference.

If you suspect that your next-door neighbour is beating his wife or molesting his child, you can and should do something about that. Regardless of whether you can find scriptural support for doing so (and you surely could), a failure to do something to ensure the safety of a vulnerable neighbour is a moral and ethical failure by any reasonable secular standard. If you happen to find a scriptural admonition to do something about it, fine -- as long as what's done is sensitive, respectful, evidence-based, and accountable for the impacts of acting and of failing to act. I believe most Christians would have no problems reconciling this (except possibly priests under the sanctity of the Confessional.)

But let's pick another example... Suppose your next-door neighbours are gay, they wish to have a wedding celebration at home and for reasons of scriptural exception you decide to oppose this with every legal means available -- including making vexatious complaints about noise, getting Christian friends to occupy parking spots so their guests have to park blocks away, disrupting their ceremony with loud gospel music, and perhaps even putting signs out the front of your home quoting Leviticus.

Sure, all of those actions may be legal, and some may be constitutionally defended as human rights. But none of them are moral in any reasonable sense of secular morality, and very few of them are ethically defensible. Essentially, it's the imposition of theocratic supremacism on your fellow man.

Hence my answer: yes, you absolutely DO have the right to judge -- on any reasonable accountable, transparent evidential, and secular basis -- whether or not those judgements have theological support -- and I suspect that most will, because like most world faiths, core Christian values are also values of secular decency.

But no, you absolutely do NOT have the moral or ethical right to judge theologically. Kindly keep your personal faith personal.

I realise more than one element of this position may be contentious. I hope it may be interesting though.

Hi Doc, good to see you. And yes I agree with ALL of your post. and I didnt pick this topic to say "hey Im gonna start judging all you especially the atheists and condemn those who dont believe cuz Jesus said its OK?" LOL. I really dont like those type of Christians and am always on the guard from being one. I hope if I DO come over like that somebody calls me out on it. In my zeal over being Saved I DO tend to get a little over the top at times. So yeah this whole its OK to judge is a 2-way street. you are a good example of how somebody CAN and does judge withe constructive critique here on DDO. one of the very very few mind you! God Bless, Doc, and talk to ya later.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
dhardage
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8/13/2015 8:29:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 8:02:40 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:26:20 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:15:10 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and rebuke your brother. But, since we are not part of your brotherhood, it does not apply to us.

Danne beat me to it. I'm not your brother in any shape, way, form, or fashion. Our only relationship is that we are both of the same species.

well, you are my brother in God's eyes but Im sure you dont get that. which is a shame. I recall well that feeling of separation and anger from me atheist days. I get it! and dont worry, Im pretty much done with arguing with the atheists on this forum as I said in my OP. I can do that right here with real live and more interesting and knowladgable people in my Box and other places. where we actually discuss and have mutual respect. unlike, say, here. I need to spend more time in the Word with my fellow Christians here on DDO. and so it shall be done.

And there it is. You somehow think that I feel 'separated and angry' just because I says you're not my brother and try to imply that all atheists are like you were. News flash. I have never beat some one up because they played music too loud, among the many other things you claim to have done. For the record, I wasn't arguing with you, just stating a simple fact that you seem incapable of grasping.

Good day, sir.
August_Burns_Red
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8/13/2015 8:35:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 8:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 8:02:40 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:26:20 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:15:10 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and rebuke your brother. But, since we are not part of your brotherhood, it does not apply to us.

Danne beat me to it. I'm not your brother in any shape, way, form, or fashion. Our only relationship is that we are both of the same species.

well, you are my brother in God's eyes but Im sure you dont get that. which is a shame. I recall well that feeling of separation and anger from me atheist days. I get it! and dont worry, Im pretty much done with arguing with the atheists on this forum as I said in my OP. I can do that right here with real live and more interesting and knowladgable people in my Box and other places. where we actually discuss and have mutual respect. unlike, say, here. I need to spend more time in the Word with my fellow Christians here on DDO. and so it shall be done.

And there it is. You somehow think that I feel 'separated and angry' just because I says you're not my brother and try to imply that all atheists are like you were. News flash. I have never beat some one up because they played music too loud, among the many other things you claim to have done. For the record, I wasn't arguing with you, just stating a simple fact that you seem incapable of grasping.

Good day, sir.

you THINK you were stating a fact but it was your own opinion. You dont know God's Will or Methods so you THINK we're not brothers. We are. Oh, it will only be while we're here on Earth, I agree to that, since I'm pretty sure we're parting ways ion the Afterlife, but still. And just so you know, everything I have claimed here on DDO about my past deeds is pure truth. So help me God the Father. every. single. word. And beating the loud music guy was one drop in a whole pool of Sin, my friend. you have no idea of whom your speaking with and what I did. I really should have been imprisoned for some of it. but got off easy with just a few country jail stints. I can speak of all this now with the utmost candor because I just dont hold any deceit or anger in me anymore after being Saved. It just disappeared. I cant fathom it sometimes. when I tell you good people here of my past its like Im describing out of body somebody else. it makes me shake my head. I still do in wonder why God Saved somebody like me. And so I make sure to thank Him every single day, sometimes every single hoour. and yes, good day to you too sir.
And as always God Bless you and Keep You.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
RuvDraba
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8/14/2015 12:02:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 8:10:02 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
Hi Doc, good to see you.
Back at you, Burnsy and I'm seriously beginning to regret mentioning my PhD now. :p

And yes I agree with ALL of your post. and I didnt pick this topic to say "hey Im gonna start judging all you especially the atheists and condemn those who dont believe cuz Jesus said its OK?"
Yes. I didn't think you had. My comment was to the topic itself, and addressed to the forum generally, rather than a specific critique about your position.
So yeah this whole its OK to judge is a 2-way street. you are a good example of how somebody CAN and does judge withe constructive critique here on DDO. one of the very very few mind you!
Thank you. That's very kind.

For me, people are never just their beliefs or just their mistakes. We all have disengaged capacities -- those we think aren't needed, or which we forget to use. We also have the ability to grow (often slowly) new capacities.

I don't have a view on what the Matthew quote was meant to be about. I don't personally believe though, that threatening people is very effective at stopping prejudice, sanctimony, bigotry or intolerance.

Ultimately, the thing I think works best is to ask people who they are, what are their values, what do they own as their responsibilities, and what they intend. While it's not true that everyone is a good person most of the time, I find it generally true that people have a caring, thoughtful, patient person within them that they can engage some of the time, when that's what they commit to doing.

Often, it's just about getting the attention, securing the commitment, and giving people the time, space and security to reflect.
Skyangel
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8/14/2015 12:39:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Why worry about judging other peoples sins when you have not yet figured out how to stop sinning yourself?
A sinner judging a sinner is just hypocritical self righteousness.

I notice you ignored the scriptures on post 4

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Judge yourself first. Are you sinless? Have you been born of God or do you still sin? If you still sin you are of the devil and don't even know God according to the above scriptures.

If you are a sinner, why even think about judging other sinners? Maybe you should think about whether you ought to throw stones at others sinners or not?

The people who have the authority to judge are those who are without sin.
John 8:7 ..... .....................He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 12:39:34 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Why worry about judging other peoples sins when you have not yet figured out how to stop sinning yourself?
A sinner judging a sinner is just hypocritical self righteousness.

I notice you ignored the scriptures on post 4

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Judge yourself first. Are you sinless? Have you been born of God or do you still sin? If you still sin you are of the devil and don't even know God according to the above scriptures.

If you are a sinner, why even think about judging other sinners? Maybe you should think about whether you ought to throw stones at others sinners or not?

The people who have the authority to judge are those who are without sin.
John 8:7 ..... .....................He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/16/2015 12:54:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:39:34 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Why worry about judging other peoples sins when you have not yet figured out how to stop sinning yourself?
A sinner judging a sinner is just hypocritical self righteousness.

I notice you ignored the scriptures on post 4

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Judge yourself first. Are you sinless? Have you been born of God or do you still sin? If you still sin you are of the devil and don't even know God according to the above scriptures.

If you are a sinner, why even think about judging other sinners? Maybe you should think about whether you ought to throw stones at others sinners or not?

The people who have the authority to judge are those who are without sin.
John 8:7 ..... .....................He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.

Judging actions is foolish.
Actions are outward appearances.
To judge the motives for the actions is the way to judge righteous judgements.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

2 Cor 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Atheists do not claim to believe in any gods yet many of them seem to have as much love and kindness as Christians do when it comes to the way they treat others.

What exactly do you think you have been saved from ?
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/16/2015 1:11:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 12:54:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:39:34 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Why worry about judging other peoples sins when you have not yet figured out how to stop sinning yourself?
A sinner judging a sinner is just hypocritical self righteousness.

I notice you ignored the scriptures on post 4

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Judge yourself first. Are you sinless? Have you been born of God or do you still sin? If you still sin you are of the devil and don't even know God according to the above scriptures.

If you are a sinner, why even think about judging other sinners? Maybe you should think about whether you ought to throw stones at others sinners or not?

The people who have the authority to judge are those who are without sin.
John 8:7 ..... .....................He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.

Judging actions is foolish.
Actions are outward appearances.
To judge the motives for the actions is the way to judge righteous judgements.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

2 Cor 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Atheists do not claim to believe in any gods yet many of them seem to have as much love and kindness as Christians do when it comes to the way they treat others.

What exactly do you think you have been saved from ?

actions are not outward appearances. they are ACTIONS. As in to ACT. As in to do something. As in to Work For God. Jesus was quite clear on this, SKy. Especially with the Pharisees. How they loved to put on outward appearances like being seen in their religious finery in the Temples, but some of them were hypocrites. In AA doing good action is called "walking the walk and not just talking the talk." Same deal applies here when Im talking about Good Works for the Lord.

I KNOW not think I was Saved from a sinning and non-useful like away from God. Outside of His Grace. And Saved also from my soul perishing along with my Flesh after I die. I'm saved from that and now can look forward to an Eternal Life with the Father.
God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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8/16/2015 1:36:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 1:11:07 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/16/2015 12:54:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.

Judging actions is foolish.
Actions are outward appearances.
To judge the motives for the actions is the way to judge righteous judgements.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

2 Cor 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Atheists do not claim to believe in any gods yet many of them seem to have as much love and kindness as Christians do when it comes to the way they treat others.

What exactly do you think you have been saved from ?

actions are not outward appearances. they are ACTIONS. As in to ACT. As in to do something. As in to Work For God. Jesus was quite clear on this, SKy. Especially with the Pharisees. How they loved to put on outward appearances like being seen in their religious finery in the Temples, but some of them were hypocrites. In AA doing good action is called "walking the walk and not just talking the talk." Same deal applies here when Im talking about Good Works for the Lord.

When you observe a person ACTING, you are observing what they APPEAR to be doing. An action is an outward observable thing. A motive is not.
No person can "work for God" any better than you can work for Mother Nature.
The religious acts of the pharisees were acts which they believed were righteous acts. They believed they were working for God. They were doing good works for God but Jesus chastised them as hypocrites in the story.
Todays religious people are no different to the Pharisees in the bible stories.
They are all busy making proselytes for their own religions rather than teaching TRUTH.

I KNOW not think I was Saved from a sinning and non-useful like away from God. Outside of His Grace. And Saved also from my soul perishing along with my Flesh after I die. I'm saved from that and now can look forward to an Eternal Life with the Father.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Have you stopped sinning?

How do you define sin?

Religious people sin as much as those Pharisees in the bible stories did.

Believing in Jesus obviously does not stop them from sinning. They just change the type of sins they commit from non religious ones to religious ones.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/16/2015 1:43:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 1:36:47 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/16/2015 1:11:07 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/16/2015 12:54:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.

Judging actions is foolish.
Actions are outward appearances.
To judge the motives for the actions is the way to judge righteous judgements.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

2 Cor 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Atheists do not claim to believe in any gods yet many of them seem to have as much love and kindness as Christians do when it comes to the way they treat others.

What exactly do you think you have been saved from ?

actions are not outward appearances. they are ACTIONS. As in to ACT. As in to do something. As in to Work For God. Jesus was quite clear on this, SKy. Especially with the Pharisees. How they loved to put on outward appearances like being seen in their religious finery in the Temples, but some of them were hypocrites. In AA doing good action is called "walking the walk and not just talking the talk." Same deal applies here when Im talking about Good Works for the Lord.

When you observe a person ACTING, you are observing what they APPEAR to be doing. An action is an outward observable thing. A motive is not.
No person can "work for God" any better than you can work for Mother Nature.
The religious acts of the pharisees were acts which they believed were righteous acts. They believed they were working for God. They were doing good works for God but Jesus chastised them as hypocrites in the story.
Todays religious people are no different to the Pharisees in the bible stories.
They are all busy making proselytes for their own religions rather than teaching TRUTH.



I KNOW not think I was Saved from a sinning and non-useful like away from God. Outside of His Grace. And Saved also from my soul perishing along with my Flesh after I die. I'm saved from that and now can look forward to an Eternal Life with the Father.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Have you stopped sinning?

How do you define sin?

Religious people sin as much as those Pharisees in the bible stories did.

Believing in Jesus obviously does not stop them from sinning. They just change the type of sins they commit from non religious ones to religious ones.

you have a bad tendency to over-generalize, Sky. and you did it again by saying religious people sin as much of the Pharisees. and you cannot possibly claim you know the nature of their sins. well, you DID, I guess, so you CAN, but nobody here believes you have such omnisicence. except maybe yourself.
Have you stopped sinning yet? why not? when Jesus has shown you exactly how to live? and you have obviously read His teachings. what's holding you back from living the life god wants you too? Ego? Hubris? Paganism? Self-delusion? what is it?have you ever prayed to have oyur sinful nature erased by God? why not? God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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8/16/2015 1:58:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 1:11:07 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/16/2015 12:54:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/14/2015 1:26:47 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:39:34 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:04 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
My brothers......I was reading an article on some of the most Misunderstood Bible Quotes and this once caught my attention. I think it makes a lot of sense. It also goes with my long-held idea that Jesus was NOT as meek and mild as some think.
What do YOU think of this? God Bless.


. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1

The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us "twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil" (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as "Judge not." or "Jesus said don"t judge." The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, "You"re being judgmental. Jesus said don"t judge." And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you"re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn"t make sense.

The verse actually reads "Judge not that ye be not judged." This verse is often swung as a gavel to bring about an immediate cessation of discussion of another person"s behavior. The incorrect understanding of the verse is that we are completely forbidden to call to attention any areas in others" behaviors that demand correction. This is a clear misinterpretation of Christ"s teaching. The words of Christ:

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Matthew 7:16 "You will recognize them by their fruits""

Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Clearly here, Christ says we are to judge righteously, recognize and discern good from evil by peoples" actions, and rebuke our brothers and sisters when they sin. To rebuke a brother we must first identify that they have sinned. To identify a person"s sin, we must obviously first judge their behavior. Without the authority to judge others" behaviors there is no permissible authority by which we could uphold governing laws, discipline children, select leaders, choose teachers and childcare providers, or discern which Bible teachers are profitable to listen to. Our selections of spouses, friends, and business partners are all based on judgments of character and ethics. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning we are to discern between a person who bears fruit, and a person who does not.

Why worry about judging other peoples sins when you have not yet figured out how to stop sinning yourself?
A sinner judging a sinner is just hypocritical self righteousness.

I notice you ignored the scriptures on post 4

1 John 3:4-9

verse 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

verse 8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Judge yourself first. Are you sinless? Have you been born of God or do you still sin? If you still sin you are of the devil and don't even know God according to the above scriptures.

If you are a sinner, why even think about judging other sinners? Maybe you should think about whether you ought to throw stones at others sinners or not?

The people who have the authority to judge are those who are without sin.
John 8:7 ..... .....................He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I judge usually be a person's actions, not their beliefs. thats why you've never seen me attack another's belief here on DDO. Or attack atheists. I only give my own opinion from my experience with God. Im a firm believer in James' "Faith without works is dead." Or as I like to say the proof is in the pudding. How one lives their lives. that's the bottom line. Anyone can say they believe in God or the Words of Jesus. but how do they prove it? what kind of life are they living? I also think that when we judge others, which is the same as evaluate, we can use that to learn about how we can improve ourselves. I do this all the time when trying to fine tune my Life in the way I think God wants me to Live. he didn't Save me for no reason. I know this. I have much work to do and past Sins to atone for. I dont believe like the Catholics do. Go say confession and a few Hail Marys or Rosaries and its all good. Uh Uh, not with the Lord it aint.

Judging actions is foolish.
Actions are outward appearances.
To judge the motives for the actions is the way to judge righteous judgements.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

2 Cor 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Atheists do not claim to believe in any gods yet many of them seem to have as much love and kindness as Christians do when it comes to the way they treat others.

What exactly do you think you have been saved from ?


I KNOW not think I was Saved from a sinning and non-useful like away from God. Outside of His Grace. And Saved also from my soul perishing along with my Flesh after I die. I'm saved from that and now can look forward to an Eternal Life with the Father.
God Bless.

Jesus suffered from a similar delusion and came to the realization on the cross where he betrayed his anguish.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
Skyangel
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8/16/2015 2:11:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 1:43:53 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/16/2015 1:36:47 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 8/16/2015 1:11:07 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:

I KNOW not think I was Saved from a sinning and non-useful like away from God. Outside of His Grace. And Saved also from my soul perishing along with my Flesh after I die. I'm saved from that and now can look forward to an Eternal Life with the Father.

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Have you stopped sinning?

How do you define sin?

Religious people sin as much as those Pharisees in the bible stories did.

Believing in Jesus obviously does not stop them from sinning. They just change the type of sins they commit from non religious ones to religious ones.

you have a bad tendency to over-generalize, Sky. and you did it again by saying religious people sin as much of the Pharisees. and you cannot possibly claim you know the nature of their sins. well, you DID, I guess, so you CAN, but nobody here believes you have such omnisicence. except maybe yourself.

The TRUTH applies in a general sense to ALL humans. You cannot overgeneralize Truth which applies in the same way to all people of the past present and future.
Sin is simply a denial and rejection of the Truth.
Anyone who denies and rejects Truth is at enmity with Truth, in other words they are taking the position of an enemy of Truth.
You just need understanding of the principle to know that. You don't need omniscience.
Religions teach FALSE doctrines. That makes the teachers of those false doctrines sinners who are at enmity with the TRUTH due to teaching falsehoods.

Have you stopped sinning yet?
YES

why not? when Jesus has shown you exactly how to live? and you have obviously read His teachings. what's holding you back from living the life god wants you too? Ego? Hubris? Paganism? Self-delusion? what is it?

You obviously suffer from much presumption.
Why do you presume I have not stopped sinning before I even answered your question?
Why do you presume anything is holding me back from living the WAY of LIFE in TRUTH ?
Why do you presume I never prayed to have my sinful nature erased?

have you ever prayed to have your sinful nature erased by God? why not? God Bless.

I actually prayed that prayer a LOT when I was still praying to an invisible character when I had the immature belief that God was a supernatural person who actually listened to us.

"Create in me a clean heart O God" was one of my hearts desires. ( Psalm 51)
I got what I wanted. I became mature. My childish immaturity, belief that we are born sinners and guilt about not pleasing a supernatural character passed away. I found the treasure of righteousness which exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. ( Matt 5:20 )
I saw the Light which ignited a fire in my heart. I am the flame of a devouring fire. I am the light of the world. ( John 8:12)
Light does not sin.