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How can (I) an agnostic feel immoral?

Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 1:17:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

It's only 'bad' if you are hurting someone else without purpose. Eating meat and cheese on the same plate or having a beer on Sunday are not truly wrong except in the eyes of those who choose to let others decide their rules for them. I can't tell you how not to feel guilty. that is for you to figure out just as determining what is right and wrong for you is.

My rules are as stated above. Harm on one else without purpose. (Self defense, protection of others, e.g.) Help others whenever possible, just because it makes you feel good to help them, not because your deity might be watching. Do what makes you happy so long as you don't break rule one. It's a deceptively simple code that's easy to break and, being human, I do break it but I do my best to live by these simple but powerful tenets. I don't advise you to live as I do, I just encourage you to examine yourself and your feelings and live a happy life.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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8/13/2015 1:18:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

Some of the things in the Bible, of which it disapproves, no decent person would think wrong, like homosexuality. People who are bigoted against gays are immoral. Obviously one shouldn't murder, steal, lie or cheat on your partner, because that is wrong, whatever your faith or lack of it.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/13/2015 1:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Nontheists can easily develop a moral sense without using theology at all. If you ever feel pressed to do something harmful, or that acts against your own values or integrity, you might feel immoral in that sense.

However, a great deal of 'theological' morality has little to do with what's demonstrably good and bad, and a lot more to do with tradition, superstition and how theology seeks to make you feel about yourself (e.g. guilty, ashamed or anxious.) Like beauty-product commercials, theology spends a lot of effort promoting itself, making itself look normative and desirable, and making you feel anxious if you don't accept it -- essentially using social anxiety to create demand for itself.

Since it has been doing this for many centuries, our culture is full of the remnants of theological advertising, which you will encounter even if you yourself don't spend much time studying theology. It's in our language, our art, our myths, traditions and superstitions. So you could be a non-theist still influenced by theological advertising -- confusing the advertising for morality.

If that's you, a good solution is to formulate a moral framework that you believe in and can defend, that's transparent and accountable, that you can review based on evidence, and that you're willing to sacrifice to uphold. Then you'll always know whether an anxiety or doubt is because you've somehow betrayed that structure, or whether it's just someone (religious or not) trying to make you feel bad anyway. :)

I hope that may help. :)
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 1:27:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:18:25 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

Some of the things in the Bible, of which it disapproves, no decent person would think wrong, like homosexuality. People who are bigoted against gays are immoral. Obviously one shouldn't murder, steal, lie or cheat on your partner, because that is wrong, whatever your faith or lack of it.

I'm nether pro or con on gays but I am leaning towards on not due to religion or the Bible of course. And now think that sex without engagement is wrong, porn is wrong, pirating movies is wrong, turning in homework late is wrong etc.
shortman
Posts: 8
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8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
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8/13/2015 1:32:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
all people have a moral compass, knowing right from wrong is still normal for all people, If it is sudden awareness of like God wouldn't be happy with you perhaps you should talk to your folks and see what brought them to faith..
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.
shortman
Posts: 8
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8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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8/13/2015 1:51:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How can (I) an agnostic feel immoral?
By doing something you believe to be immoral.
Humans create morals and some abide by them.
Do your best.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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8/13/2015 1:53:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.

The bible is not the word of any god, it is the words of very ignorant bronze age men.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Alpha3141
Posts: 154
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8/13/2015 2:03:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

Either you can follow morality as presented in the Bible, or follow the subjective morality that people make up. That's how I think of it
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 2:30:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.

The bible is a book of mostly mythology, compiled, edited, redacted, and promulgated by an organization whose sole function is to control a population and glean their means of existence from those controlled. Look at the wealth of the Catholic Church and compare it to the wealth of the average Catholic around the world. You'll see quite a disparity. It has no other purpose but to sustain its own existence and has demonstrated that a number of times.

Use your ability to think critically, your ability to reason, your inborn empathetic ability and determine for yourself what is right and wrong. Don't let some self-absorbed organization's book of indoctrination make up your mind for you.
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:00:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:30:43 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.

The bible is a book of mostly mythology, compiled, edited, redacted, and promulgated by an organization whose sole function is to control a population and glean their means of existence from those controlled. Look at the wealth of the Catholic Church and compare it to the wealth of the average Catholic around the world. You'll see quite a disparity. It has no other purpose but to sustain its own existence and has demonstrated that a number of times.

Use your ability to think critically, your ability to reason, your inborn empathetic ability and determine for yourself what is right and wrong. Don't let some self-absorbed organization's book of indoctrination make up your mind for you.

Catholics are just one version of Christianity and most Catholics are nice people who honestly believe in God. Can't say the same thing for the high priests and cardinals though.
Ha. I live in a family of critical thinkers. I found this site when I was 11, I help managed my family's stocks when I was 12, I completely managed it she I was 13, I owned my owned businesses at 14 and now that I'm turning 15 I'm having a morality problem. Anyway, I didn't even notice that the Bible became my source of morality until yesterday when I felt bad for staying up late using my phone.
shortman
Posts: 8
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8/13/2015 3:03:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible. : :

The Bible can't speak and no where in the Bible will you read that the Bible is the word of the Lord. The scriptures that Jesus talked about are written testimonies that God had his prophets write who were testifying to the word of the Lord that they heard within their mind.

When God speaks into your mind, then you're hearing the word of the Lord. As you read the Bible, you are reading the testimonies of men who heard the word of the Lord in their mind.

The Bible was produced by men who didn't know God and the new testament does not contain the original testimonies of men who testified to the word of God. They contain parts of the original written and spoken testimonies along with Jewish traditions and pagan teachings of old cultures.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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8/13/2015 3:05:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:03:29 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible. : :

The Bible can't speak and no where in the Bible will you read that the Bible is the word of the Lord. The scriptures that Jesus talked about are written testimonies that God had his prophets write who were testifying to the word of the Lord that they heard within their mind.

When God speaks into your mind, then you're hearing the word of the Lord. As you read the Bible, you are reading the testimonies of men who heard the word of the Lord in their mind.

The Bible was produced by men who didn't know God and the new testament does not contain the original testimonies of men who testified to the word of God. They contain parts of the original written and spoken testimonies along with Jewish traditions and pagan teachings of old cultures.

Brad?
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:08:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?

Apparently someone didn't read the title. I am an agnostic dude. So no I don't believe unless you have lotsa proof.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 3:10:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:00:07 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:30:43 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.

The bible is a book of mostly mythology, compiled, edited, redacted, and promulgated by an organization whose sole function is to control a population and glean their means of existence from those controlled. Look at the wealth of the Catholic Church and compare it to the wealth of the average Catholic around the world. You'll see quite a disparity. It has no other purpose but to sustain its own existence and has demonstrated that a number of times.

Use your ability to think critically, your ability to reason, your inborn empathetic ability and determine for yourself what is right and wrong. Don't let some self-absorbed organization's book of indoctrination make up your mind for you.

Catholics are just one version of Christianity and most Catholics are nice people who honestly believe in God. Can't say the same thing for the high priests and cardinals though.
Ha. I live in a family of critical thinkers. I found this site when I was 11, I help managed my family's stocks when I was 12, I completely managed it she I was 13, I owned my owned businesses at 14 and now that I'm turning 15 I'm having a morality problem. Anyway, I didn't even notice that the Bible became my source of morality until yesterday when I felt bad for staying up late using my phone.

Was it the bible or was it just feeling bad for breaking your parents' rules? I would much rather violate a biblical rule than disappoint my Mom or Dad.

Let me put it this way, and this is my personal take on things so it's not professional counseling or anything like that. There is only one opinion you have to satisfy in this life and that's your own. Anyone else's (including that mythical god) are irrelevant except how disappointing them makes you feel about yourself. The bible is so chock full of contradiction, retribution, cruelty, and yes, even wisdom that it's difficult to get a clear, unambiguous picture of what is good and what isn't. If what you do somehow makes you feel bad about yourself at least make sure it's your own opinion and not someone else's you're worried about.

I know that's a bit rambling and maybe not as clear as I can make it, but trust your own sense of right and wrong. If you're going to use the bible as a guide, just use one verse. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's probably the greatest piece of wisdom you'll find in it and it's, in my opinion, the best way to live and live with others.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 3:11:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:08:01 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?

Apparently someone didn't read the title. I am an agnostic dude. So no I don't believe unless you have lotsa proof.

I was just using an example to point out that anyone or anything can make a claim. That doesn't make it true. That book claiming it's the word of some supernatural deity is no more valid than me claiming I'm that particular deity. Both should be taken with several shakers of salt and examined very closely.
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:17:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:10:01 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:00:07 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:30:43 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless.

The bible is a book of mostly mythology, compiled, edited, redacted, and promulgated by an organization whose sole function is to control a population and glean their means of existence from those controlled. Look at the wealth of the Catholic Church and compare it to the wealth of the average Catholic around the world. You'll see quite a disparity. It has no other purpose but to sustain its own existence and has demonstrated that a number of times.

Use your ability to think critically, your ability to reason, your inborn empathetic ability and determine for yourself what is right and wrong. Don't let some self-absorbed organization's book of indoctrination make up your mind for you.

Catholics are just one version of Christianity and most Catholics are nice people who honestly believe in God. Can't say the same thing for the high priests and cardinals though.
Ha. I live in a family of critical thinkers. I found this site when I was 11, I help managed my family's stocks when I was 12, I completely managed it she I was 13, I owned my owned businesses at 14 and now that I'm turning 15 I'm having a morality problem. Anyway, I didn't even notice that the Bible became my source of morality until yesterday when I felt bad for staying up late using my phone.

Was it the bible or was it just feeling bad for breaking your parents' rules? I would much rather violate a biblical rule than disappoint my Mom or Dad.

Let me put it this way, and this is my personal take on things so it's not professional counseling or anything like that. There is only one opinion you have to satisfy in this life and that's your own. Anyone else's (including that mythical god) are irrelevant except how disappointing them makes you feel about yourself. The bible is so chock full of contradiction, retribution, cruelty, and yes, even wisdom that it's difficult to get a clear, unambiguous picture of what is good and what isn't. If what you do somehow makes you feel bad about yourself at least make sure it's your own opinion and not someone else's you're worried about.

I know that's a bit rambling and maybe not as clear as I can make it, but trust your own sense of right and wrong. If you're going to use the bible as a guide, just use one verse. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's probably the greatest piece of wisdom you'll find in it and it's, in my opinion, the best way to live and live with others.

Good advice. But the thing is its like its built in me. I guess you're right to an extent that the fear of disappointing my parents makes me have their morality but even if their okay with me having my own ideals it still kinda feels wrong.
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:19:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:11:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:01 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?

Apparently someone didn't read the title. I am an agnostic dude. So no I don't believe unless you have lotsa proof.

I was just using an example to point out that anyone or anything can make a claim. That doesn't make it true. That book claiming it's the word of some supernatural deity is no more valid than me claiming I'm that particular deity. Both should be taken with several shakers of salt and examined very closely.

I do take the claim and examine it with caution but the claim has lasted more than 2000 years and has an impressive following and has some evidence. Also I am not talking about believing in God I'm talking about his morality.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/13/2015 3:20:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

Christianity is about loving and focusing on the truth, helping the needy, and being kind to people. No one is perfect, we all mess up. Thankfully we don't have to let our mistakes define who we are, or keep us from trying to do better in the future.

Have you messed up? You are forgiven. Pay attention to the things that you are doing and saying, and try to be the best person you can be. Always maintain your integrity. The bible is meant to be a mirror into the self, it is supposed to help point out things to you that you might not be able to see on your own.

The book of proverbs has a great deal of advice on how to be a good person. The book of James is also really good. If you want to know how Jesus wants us to be, read the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5,6, and 7.

Don't ever stop your search for truth. Just be honest about what might be getting in the way of you being completely honest. Don't worry about what other people are doing wrong, be more concerned about what you are doing wrong, and how you yourself can live in a world where people are doing wrong. Don't worry about governing others, worry about governing yourself. If you search, you will find.

Agnosticism is a healthy thing, it is to say, "I don't know". God can never be completely known. "Gnosticism", which is the position of "I know" is considered a heresy for a reason! As soon as you think you know it all, you shut yourself off to learning. Don't ever stop learning.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/13/2015 3:24:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:19:44 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:11:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:01 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?

Apparently someone didn't read the title. I am an agnostic dude. So no I don't believe unless you have lotsa proof.

I was just using an example to point out that anyone or anything can make a claim. That doesn't make it true. That book claiming it's the word of some supernatural deity is no more valid than me claiming I'm that particular deity. Both should be taken with several shakers of salt and examined very closely.

I do take the claim and examine it with caution but the claim has lasted more than 2000 years and has an impressive following and has some evidence. Also I am not talking about believing in God I'm talking about his morality.

The claim has lasted because an organized group of people have a vested interest in it and more groups keep using it for their own benefit. For thousands of years people believed the earth was flat and fixed and the sun, moon, and stars moved around it. They were all wrong.

Re-read Genesis, Exodus, and Leviticus. Make a count of how many people God killed because he got ticked off that they weren't doing his will or because he wanted to play favorites and give the Jewish people the land they lived on. Not just grown men, but women and children as well. He is the greatest mass murderer in any piece of literature. He destroyed the entire world because people were using the free will he supposedly gave them. Well, except for his favorite drunk and his family. The morality of God depends on who the particular bit of the bible you read.

Ok, rant over. You obviously have a brain and know how to use it, so use it.
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:29:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:24:50 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:19:44 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:11:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:08:01 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:54:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/13/2015 2:53:12 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:40:38 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:39:11 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:30:27 PM, shortman wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things. : :

Don't let those Christians make you guilty because they keep doing bad things, too. The Bible isn't God and never will be.

God plans to forgive all his people as they die in this world so you have nothing to worry about.

But the Bible is God's word and the the old testament makes him seem quite mean and ruthless. : :

Who told you that the Bible is God's word?

The Bible.

Ok, I'm God. Do you believe that?

Apparently someone didn't read the title. I am an agnostic dude. So no I don't believe unless you have lotsa proof.

I was just using an example to point out that anyone or anything can make a claim. That doesn't make it true. That book claiming it's the word of some supernatural deity is no more valid than me claiming I'm that particular deity. Both should be taken with several shakers of salt and examined very closely.

I do take the claim and examine it with caution but the claim has lasted more than 2000 years and has an impressive following and has some evidence. Also I am not talking about believing in God I'm talking about his morality.

The claim has lasted because an organized group of people have a vested interest in it and more groups keep using it for their own benefit. For thousands of years people believed the earth was flat and fixed and the sun, moon, and stars moved around it. They were all wrong.

Re-read Genesis, Exodus, and Leviticus. Make a count of how many people God killed because he got ticked off that they weren't doing his will or because he wanted to play favorites and give the Jewish people the land they lived on. Not just grown men, but women and children as well. He is the greatest mass murderer in any piece of literature. He destroyed the entire world because people were using the free will he supposedly gave them. Well, except for his favorite drunk and his family. The morality of God depends on who the particular bit of the bible you read.

Ok, rant over. You obviously have a brain and know how to use it, so use it.

1. People knew the Earth wasn't flat ever since the Greeks. 2. That was the God from the old testament 3. He destroyed them cause they were evil and the "gift" of free will is actually a test or something. 4. They do have some evidences. 5. Why am I defending Christianity? Am agnostic so I get what you're talking about.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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8/13/2015 3:39:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

I'll give you an answer from a Christian point of view and you can decide whether you believe it or not. I hope it helps.

God created us to know and love him. We are naturally oriented that way. God's laws are written on everyone's hearts and is expressed through our consciences. It is our duty to follow our consciences.

However, it is also our duty to inform and develop our conscience. We learn to ignore our conscience through the 7 deadly sins (sloth, greed, lust, pride...) and through practice of the 7 heavenly virtues (diligence, charity, chastity, humility...) we learn to listen to our conscience.

A more complete Christian understanding on conscience if you're interested:
http://www.vatican.va...
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 3:47:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:39:15 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

I'll give you an answer from a Christian point of view and you can decide whether you believe it or not. I hope it helps.

God created us to know and love him. We are naturally oriented that way. God's laws are written on everyone's hearts and is expressed through our consciences. It is our duty to follow our consciences.

However, it is also our duty to inform and develop our conscience. We learn to ignore our conscience through the 7 deadly sins (sloth, greed, lust, pride...) and through practice of the 7 heavenly virtues (diligence, charity, chastity, humility...) we learn to listen to our conscience.

A more complete Christian understanding on conscience if you're interested:
http://www.vatican.va...

Since I'm not and was never a Christian I'd have to say that it probably has something to do with me fearing me parents would be very disappointed if I wasn't "good" so that's what I think plays a role in my new morality. Also aren't humans supposed to be burned sinful? Anyway I'll give it a read cause I do like learning about philosophy\religion.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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8/13/2015 4:04:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:47:09 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:39:15 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

I'll give you an answer from a Christian point of view and you can decide whether you believe it or not. I hope it helps.

God created us to know and love him. We are naturally oriented that way. God's laws are written on everyone's hearts and is expressed through our consciences. It is our duty to follow our consciences.

However, it is also our duty to inform and develop our conscience. We learn to ignore our conscience through the 7 deadly sins (sloth, greed, lust, pride...) and through practice of the 7 heavenly virtues (diligence, charity, chastity, humility...) we learn to listen to our conscience.

A more complete Christian understanding on conscience if you're interested:
http://www.vatican.va...

Since I'm not and was never a Christian I'd have to say that it probably has something to do with me fearing me parents would be very disappointed if I wasn't "good" so that's what I think plays a role in my new morality. Also aren't humans supposed to be burned sinful? Anyway I'll give it a read cause I do like learning about philosophy\religion.

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you mean by burned sinful? Born sinful?
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Posts: 57
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8/13/2015 4:11:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:04:52 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:47:09 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 3:39:15 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 8/13/2015 1:11:28 PM, Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 wrote:
I'm an agnostic and have been that way since birth but just a bit longer than a year ago my parents become Christians and I have thought nothing of it until now. I kinda feel guilty and immoral for doing things against the Bible (I was curious so I read it last week.) and my parents. Is this weird? Cause it isn't like normal guilty it's like I'm actually scared and sad about doing "bad" things.

I'll give you an answer from a Christian point of view and you can decide whether you believe it or not. I hope it helps.

God created us to know and love him. We are naturally oriented that way. God's laws are written on everyone's hearts and is expressed through our consciences. It is our duty to follow our consciences.

However, it is also our duty to inform and develop our conscience. We learn to ignore our conscience through the 7 deadly sins (sloth, greed, lust, pride...) and through practice of the 7 heavenly virtues (diligence, charity, chastity, humility...) we learn to listen to our conscience.

A more complete Christian understanding on conscience if you're interested:
http://www.vatican.va...

Since I'm not and was never a Christian I'd have to say that it probably has something to do with me fearing me parents would be very disappointed if I wasn't "good" so that's what I think plays a role in my new morality. Also aren't humans supposed to be burned sinful? Anyway I'll give it a read cause I do like learning about philosophy\religion.

I'm sorry I'm not sure what you mean by burned sinful? Born sinful?

Yes, I meant born sinful. Stfu autocorrect.