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JWs teach what Christ & the Apostles taught??

annanicole
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8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
MadCornishClown: Only if they ever go against Jehovah's word will I ever turn against them.

Anna: Well, they've done exactly that dozens upon dozens of times, and continue to do so. So start turning, dude.

MadCornishClown: No, they have not. They just got the wrong impression from it a few times, not dozens.

Anna: Wrong impression? Why, those tards scurried about the countryside for years playing Judge Rutherford's records on old wind-up Victrolas to anybody that would listen. You oughta listen to one of them!

*******

(1) "Wrong impression" #1: "Applying the same rule then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to biblical chronology, the Lord"s second presence was due." Creation, 1927

(2) "Wrong impression" #2: " The 'time of the end' embraces the period from 1799 A.D to the time complete overthrow of Satan"s empire and the establishment of the kingdom of messiah. The time of the Lord"s second presence dates from 1874 and is during the latter part of the period known as 'the time of the end'." Creation, 1927

(3) "Wrong impression" #3: "For instance, as we look back and note that the Scriptures marked 1873 as the end of six thousand years from Adam to the beginning of the seventh thousand, and the fall of 1874 as the beginning of the forty-year harvest of the Gospel age" WatchTower, July 15, 1894, p. 1675

(4) "Wrong Impression' #4, i. e. calculating dates based upon pyramids: "Then measuring down the 'Entrance Passage' from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the 'Pit,' representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble" Thy Kingdom Come, 1904, 342

(5) "No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord"s return in power, there has been a complete change in God"s operations." WatchTower, September 15, 1922, p. 278

(6) "Wrong Impression" #6: "The Kingdom of God is already begun, which is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" which will end in 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." Studies in the Scriptures Vol.2, 1906 p.101

(7) "Wrong impression" #7: "The length of time is indicated by him when he said, 'Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' (Matt. 24:34) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a "generation" in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period." Watchtower, July 1, 1951, p. 404

(8) "Wrong Impression" #8: "To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon." - Watchtower, Sept. 1 1952 pp 542-543

(9) "Wrong Impression" #9: "However, the expression "this generation" was used by Jesus to mark a very limited period of time, the life-span of members of a generation of people living during the time that certain epoch-making events occurred. According to Psalm 90:10, that life-span could be of seventy years or even of eighty years." Watchtower 1967 December 15 p.751

(10) "Wrong Impression" #10: "Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice... Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccination." The Golden Age 1921 Oct 12 p.17

(11) "Wrong Impression" #11: "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the anti typical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." The Watchtower. May 15, 1922

(12) "Wrong Impression" #12: "about April 1, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies" Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1925 p110

(13) "Wrong Impression" #13: "(By 1925), you will have secured the services of the best decorators you can find. Some of them used to be undertakers; but since there are no more people dying, they have had to seek some new occupation. Their experience as undertakers prepared them to become decorators with very little difficulty. The Way To Paradise, 1924 p.228

(14) "Wrong Impression" #14: "On May 19, 1780 (still 'in those days,' the 1260 years of Papal power, but after that power had begun to wane and the brunt of the tribulation had passed) a phenomenal darkening of the sun occurred, for which scientists of that time and since have never been able to account.. This unaccountable day, except as a sign from the Lord" Studies in the Scriptures IV - Battle of Armageddon p585

(15) "Wrong Impression" #15: "We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trumpet' began its sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble." WatchTower, November 1890, p. 1

(16) "Wrong Impression" #16: "For "the holy place" to be "brought", or restored, to what it should be, the 2,300 days must have begun when it previously was in the "right condition" from God"s standpoint. At the earliest, this was on June 1, 1938" Pay Attention to Daniel"s Prophecy! 1999 p177

(17) "Wrong Impression" #17: "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man"s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E." - Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p28

"Six Thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete in A.D. 1872, and hence that since A.D. 1872, we chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." - Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2, 1889, P 33

*** When exactly did this "seventh period" or "seventh millennium" start anyhow? 1872 or 1975? "God's Mouthpiece" has claimed both.

(18) "Wrong Impression" #18: "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 485

(19) "Wrong Impression" #19: "As a result of the publication of wholesome truth on the subject, there are fewer people now purchasing aluminum cooking utensils than heretofore. There is also a pronounced drop in the cancer death rate. Much aluminum used: many cancers. Less aluminum used: fewer cancers." The Golden Age 1930 p.650

Using aluminum cooking utensils causes cancer? Since when?

(20) "Wrong Impression" #20: "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'." The Watchtower, 1st December 1904 p 364

Did "Christ and the apostles" teach any of that garbage? Of course not!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
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8/13/2015 5:23:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM, annanicole wrote:

When it comes to examining dates predicted by the Watchtower for the end of this system of things, we have to realize that this is plainly an interpretation of the scriptures. If it is wrong, then take it like a man and move on. If it is right, then there is no discussion about it. In fact, never once did the WT claim that Armageddon was definitely going to come in 1975. Here is a quote from an article on the topic:
"The publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man's existence will be completed in the mid-1970's. But these publications HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE WORLD'S END WOULD COME THEN. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation 'Why We Have Not Been Told 'That Day and Hour' was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end." (w74 10/15 p. 635)

(19) "Wrong Impression" #19: "As a result of the publication of wholesome truth on the subject, there are fewer people now purchasing aluminum cooking utensils than heretofore. There is also a pronounced drop in the cancer death rate. Much aluminum used: many cancers. Less aluminum used: fewer cancers." The Golden Age 1930 p.650

Using aluminum cooking utensils causes cancer? Since when?
Is it really intellectually honest to criticize them for speaking against aluminum utensils? Almost everyone, including medical professionals, during the early 1900s were skeptical about them. It was not some kind of exclusive thing to JWs. It was also never a doctrine. It would be like criticizing people from the past for believing the earth was flat. They simply did not know any better.

(20) "Wrong Impression" #20: "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'." The Watchtower, 1st December 1904 p 364

Did "Christ and the apostles" teach any of that garbage? Of course not!
Any of what garbage? Jesus plainly said to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Luke 22:19, 20) In fact, it was not even until the third century that Christians even began to participate in what we call "Christmas". The date is simply incorrect, there is no reason to believe Jesus was born on December 25. To put it plainly, it is a pagan celebration that has been imported into the Christian faith.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/13/2015 5:53:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 5:23:42 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM, annanicole wrote:

When it comes to examining dates predicted by the Watchtower for the end of this system of things, we have to realize that this is plainly an interpretation of the scriptures. If it is wrong, then take it like a man and move on. If it is right, then there is no discussion about it. In fact, never once did the WT claim that Armageddon was definitely going to come in 1975. Here is a quote from an article on the topic:
"The publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man's existence will be completed in the mid-1970's. But these publications HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE WORLD'S END WOULD COME THEN. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation 'Why We Have Not Been Told 'That Day and Hour' was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end." (w74 10/15 p. 635)

(19) "Wrong Impression" #19: "As a result of the publication of wholesome truth on the subject, there are fewer people now purchasing aluminum cooking utensils than heretofore. There is also a pronounced drop in the cancer death rate. Much aluminum used: many cancers. Less aluminum used: fewer cancers." The Golden Age 1930 p.650

Using aluminum cooking utensils causes cancer? Since when?
Is it really intellectually honest to criticize them for speaking against aluminum utensils? Almost everyone, including medical professionals, during the early 1900s were skeptical about them. It was not some kind of exclusive thing to JWs. It was also never a doctrine. It would be like criticizing people from the past for believing the earth was flat. They simply did not know any better.

(20) "Wrong Impression" #20: "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'." The Watchtower, 1st December 1904 p 364

Did "Christ and the apostles" teach any of that garbage? Of course not!

Any of what garbage? Jesus plainly said to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Luke 22:19, 20) In fact, it was not even until the third century that Christians even began to participate in what we call "Christmas". The date is simply incorrect, there is no reason to believe Jesus was born on December 25. To put it plainly, it is a pagan celebration that has been imported into the Christian faith.

This garbage:

"We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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8/13/2015 6:20:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 5:23:42 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM, annanicole wrote:

When it comes to examining dates predicted by the Watchtower for the end of this system of things, we have to realize that this is plainly an interpretation of the scriptures. If it is wrong, then take it like a man and move on.

Absolutely. Just admit that neither you nor "the organization" are especially "God's Mouthpiece", i. e. that the whole claim was a farce, and move on. I agree totally. Many ex-WatchTower followers did just that.

What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction and start the whole mess over again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
graceofgod
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8/13/2015 9:18:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

the jw's do not teach what the apostles taught...
Geogeer
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8/13/2015 10:06:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 5:23:42 PM, tstor wrote:

Is it really intellectually honest to criticize them for speaking against aluminum utensils? Almost everyone, including medical professionals, during the early 1900s were skeptical about them. It was not some kind of exclusive thing to JWs. It was also never a doctrine. It would be like criticizing people from the past for believing the earth was flat. They simply did not know any better.

Yeah, but Chess?

Any of what garbage? Jesus plainly said to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Luke 22:19, 20)

Does that mean that there is a prohibition against celebrating his birth and remembering the significance of the incarnation?

In fact, it was not even until the third century that Christians even began to participate in what we call "Christmas". The date is simply incorrect, there is no reason to believe Jesus was born on December 25. To put it plainly, it is a pagan celebration that has been imported into the Christian faith.

The date is unknown. Additionally, did you know that the Commonwealth nations do not celebrate the queen's birthday on her birthday?!? The horror!

Besides Christians remember (represent) Jesus' sacrifice every Sunday. That doesn't mean that you focus only on the same portions of the bible every Sunday.

By the way do JWs follow Jesus' command:

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
tstor
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8/14/2015 12:50:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 5:53:31 PM, annanicole wrote:

This garbage:

"We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'."
I can't say I am familiar with the article, but it is well known that Bible Students used to celebrate holidays. It was not until Rutherford took over when they began separating from them. They used to view Christmas as honoring Jesus, but now they view it as a pagan import to the Christian faith, which it is.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
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8/14/2015 12:50:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 6:20:37 PM, annanicole wrote:

Absolutely. Just admit that neither you nor "the organization" are especially "God's Mouthpiece", i. e. that the whole claim was a farce, and move on. I agree totally. Many ex-WatchTower followers did just that.
"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction and start the whole mess over again.
They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate. I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
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8/14/2015 12:50:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 10:06:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Is it really intellectually honest to criticize them for speaking against aluminum utensils? Almost everyone, including medical professionals, during the early 1900s were skeptical about them. It was not some kind of exclusive thing to JWs. It was also never a doctrine. It would be like criticizing people from the past for believing the earth was flat. They simply did not know any better.

Yeah, but Chess?
What do you mean?

Any of what garbage? Jesus plainly said to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Luke 22:19, 20)

Does that mean that there is a prohibition against celebrating his birth and remembering the significance of the incarnation?
Not inherently. Bible Students used to have no issue with Christmas. However, it is directly linked to pagan roots, which is against Bible teachings.

In fact, it was not even until the third century that Christians even began to participate in what we call "Christmas". The date is simply incorrect, there is no reason to believe Jesus was born on December 25. To put it plainly, it is a pagan celebration that has been imported into the Christian faith.

The date is unknown. Additionally, did you know that the Commonwealth nations do not celebrate the queen's birthday on her birthday?!? The horror!
Exactly, the date is unknown. So how was December 25 picked? Wikipedia says:
"One theory to explain the choice of 25 December for the celebration of the birth of Jesus is that the purpose was to Christianize the pagan festival in Rome of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'the birthday of the Unconquered Sun', a festival inaugurated by the Roman emperor Aurelian (270"275) to celebrate the sun god and celebrated at the winter solstice, 25 December. According to this theory, during the reign of the emperor Constantine, Christian writers assimilated this feast as the birthday of Jesus, associating him with the 'sun of righteousness' mentioned in Malachi 4:2"

Besides Christians remember (represent) Jesus' sacrifice every Sunday. That doesn't mean that you focus only on the same portions of the bible every Sunday.

By the way do JWs follow Jesus' command:

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
Yes, the JWs practice this once a month. However, only the anointed ones participate.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
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8/14/2015 12:57:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 12:50:32 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/13/2015 6:20:37 PM, annanicole wrote:

Absolutely. Just admit that neither you nor "the organization" are especially "God's Mouthpiece", i. e. that the whole claim was a farce, and move on. I agree totally. Many ex-WatchTower followers did just that.

"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

I had seen it. It looks like a bunch of excuses which seek to water down their claims over the years.

What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction and start the whole mess over again.

They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate.

I just said, "What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction .... " Compare that to what you said, "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate."

I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.

Because your way only leads to one erroneous calculation after another. That's why they screwed up pertaining to ....

1874
1878
1914
1915
1918
1925
1926

and on and on and on.

IDK how many chances a reasonable person would give an organization that makes these wild calculations again and again and again - and insists that its members promote these calculations until Ol' Father Time proves them wrong ... again.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Geogeer
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8/14/2015 1:55:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 12:50:40 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/13/2015 10:06:07 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Is it really intellectually honest to criticize them for speaking against aluminum utensils? Almost everyone, including medical professionals, during the early 1900s were skeptical about them. It was not some kind of exclusive thing to JWs. It was also never a doctrine. It would be like criticizing people from the past for believing the earth was flat. They simply did not know any better.

Yeah, but Chess?
What do you mean?

http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com...

Any of what garbage? Jesus plainly said to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Luke 22:19, 20)

Does that mean that there is a prohibition against celebrating his birth and remembering the significance of the incarnation?
Not inherently. Bible Students used to have no issue with Christmas. However, it is directly linked to pagan roots, which is against Bible teachings.

I'd disagree.

In fact, it was not even until the third century that Christians even began to participate in what we call "Christmas". The date is simply incorrect, there is no reason to believe Jesus was born on December 25. To put it plainly, it is a pagan celebration that has been imported into the Christian faith.

The date is unknown. Additionally, did you know that the Commonwealth nations do not celebrate the queen's birthday on her birthday?!? The horror!

Exactly, the date is unknown. So how was December 25 picked? Wikipedia says:
"One theory to explain the choice of 25 December for the celebration of the birth of Jesus is that the purpose was to Christianize the pagan festival in Rome of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'the birthday of the Unconquered Sun', a festival inaugurated by the Roman emperor Aurelian (270"275) to celebrate the sun god and celebrated at the winter solstice, 25 December. According to this theory, during the reign of the emperor Constantine, Christian writers assimilated this feast as the birthday of Jesus, associating him with the 'sun of righteousness' mentioned in Malachi 4:2"

It is a possibility. So let's assume it is true. It is a means of converting a nation. Take things that they understand and re-present it to them with new symbolism in a theologically correct way.

This is what JWs attempt to do when they come to my door. They try to take things I know and re-present them in a different manner.

Do you only study readings in the bible at the exact time of year that they took place?

Or did Jesus himself paganize the Church when he took the apostles to Cesarea Philipi and used the giant rock, upon which the temple of Pan was erected, to rename Simon to Peter?

Besides Christians remember (represent) Jesus' sacrifice every Sunday. That doesn't mean that you focus only on the same portions of the bible every Sunday.

By the way do JWs follow Jesus' command:

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.

Yes, the JWs practice this once a month. However, only the anointed ones participate.

So in other words almost none of the current JWs have eternal life because they don't receive the body and blood of Jesus. And even then they don't even believe that it really is the body and blood of Jesus. So not only is it only symbolically Jesus, not all believers are worthy to symbolically receive Jesus.

By the way, it is an infallible teaching of the Watch Tower that you are not supposed to celebrate your birthday? Is it in the Bible?
tstor
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8/14/2015 4:40:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 12:57:20 AM, annanicole wrote:

"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

I had seen it. It looks like a bunch of excuses which seek to water down their claims over the years.
I am sorry you see it that way. I personally do not.

They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate.

I just said, "What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction .... " Compare that to what you said, "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate."
I was not disagreeing with you. I am saying that as you make one prediction and it is wrong, you can usually make a better one next time around. It is process of elimination. If I have five keys and one does not work, I move to the next one. If none of the work, I move to the next door.

I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.

Because your way only leads to one erroneous calculation after another. That's why they screwed up pertaining to ....

1874
1878
1914
1915
1918
1925
1926

and on and on and on.

IDK how many chances a reasonable person would give an organization that makes these wild calculations again and again and again - and insists that its members promote these calculations until Ol' Father Time proves them wrong ... again.
"Your way"? I am beginning to believe that you are associating me with Witnesses. I am not one. If I was, I would come right out and say it.

I will not be on for several days, so I will answer any further questions when I return.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
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8/14/2015 4:43:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 1:55:07 AM, Geogeer wrote:

http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com...
I find this to be similar to the aluminum utensil idea. It was never banned by doctrine. In fact, examining the first quote on the website makes sense:
"The spirit of competition between players can lead to unpleasant circumstances"most families manage to keep the conflicts that arise in games to the Chess board. But in some homes, tensions linger long after checkmate."

Because it is Jehovah's Witness Blog (Denouncing Jehovah's Kingdom), we will not get full context. I will be willing to wager that the chess idea was more of an illustration of family tension than literal chess. I could be outright wrong though. The second quote is this:
"Chess has been a game of war since it originated"a play substitute for the art of war".a danger of stirring up competition with one another even developing hostility towards another, something the Bible warns Christians to avoid doing"

I believe that it complements my observation nicely. Chess, from its origin, has been used to stir conflict. Perhaps we should not associate with such a game if it can drive wedges, even if only temporary, between family members. However, this is strictly theoretical as I could not find the entire Awake! magazine.

Not inherently. Bible Students used to have no issue with Christmas. However, it is directly linked to pagan roots, which is against Bible teachings.

I'd disagree.
Why? Russell did not make his followers stop celebrating Christmas. It was Rutherford.

Exactly, the date is unknown. So how was December 25 picked? Wikipedia says:
"One theory to explain the choice of 25 December for the celebration of the birth of Jesus is that the purpose was to Christianize the pagan festival in Rome of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'the birthday of the Unconquered Sun', a festival inaugurated by the Roman emperor Aurelian (270"275) to celebrate the sun god and celebrated at the winter solstice, 25 December. According to this theory, during the reign of the emperor Constantine, Christian writers assimilated this feast as the birthday of Jesus, associating him with the 'sun of righteousness' mentioned in Malachi 4:2"

It is a possibility. So let's assume it is true. It is a means of converting a nation. Take things that they understand and re-present it to them with new symbolism in a theologically correct way.
Not really. It is more like taking an already existing religion and incorporating it into your own.

This is what JWs attempt to do when they come to my door. They try to take things I know and re-present them in a different manner.
Well, you are looking at the same book as them. They use a Bible just like you do.

Do you only study readings in the bible at the exact time of year that they took place?
What do you mean? Are you asking if I study the Bible with the historical context in mind? If so, then yes.

Or did Jesus himself paganize the Church when he took the apostles to Cesarea Philipi and used the giant rock, upon which the temple of Pan was erected, to rename Simon to Peter?
That is a rather curious way of interpreting it. In that same story, how do you define this with your idea:
"Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'" [NIV] (Matthew 16:17, 18)

Jesus was using it as an example of what his gospel was. It would not be overtaken by the pagans. Also consider this in light of Mark 8:34-38:
"Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: 'Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.'"
Who is the crowd? More than likely the pagans.

Yes, the JWs practice this once a month. However, only the anointed ones participate.

So in other words almost none of the current JWs have eternal life because they don't receive the body and blood of Jesus. And even then they don't even believe that it really is the body and blood of Jesus. So not only is it only symbolically Jesus, not all believers are worthy to symbolically receive Jesus.
While I do not completely agree with the JW interpretation, here is their explanation right off the website:
http://wol.jw.org...

By the way, it is an infallible teaching of the Watch Tower that you are not supposed to celebrate your birthday? Is it in the Bible?
What do you mean by "infallible teaching"? Here is their explanation off of their website:
http://www.jw.org...

I will not be on for several days, so I will answer any further questions when I return.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
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8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 4:40:04 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:57:20 AM, annanicole wrote:

"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

I had seen it. It looks like a bunch of excuses which seek to water down their claims over the years.
I am sorry you see it that way. I personally do not.

They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate.

I just said, "What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction .... " Compare that to what you said, "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate."
I was not disagreeing with you. I am saying that as you make one prediction and it is wrong, you can usually make a better one next time around. It is process of elimination. If I have five keys and one does not work, I move to the next one. If none of the work, I move to the next door.

I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.

Because your way only leads to one erroneous calculation after another. That's why they screwed up pertaining to ....

1874
1878
1914
1915
1918
1925
1926

and on and on and on.

IDK how many chances a reasonable person would give an organization that makes these wild calculations again and again and again - and insists that its members promote these calculations until Ol' Father Time proves them wrong ... again.

"Your way"? I am beginning to believe that you are associating me with Witnesses. I am not one. If I was, I would come right out and say it.

Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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8/14/2015 5:38:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
The fatal problem for the Botchtowerites & their supporters is this -

"The Lord has graciously provided for the publication of his message in the form of books, that the people many be informed of the truth....those books do not contain the opinion of any man." (Riches, 1936, p. 384, 385)

So according to the Botchtower it is their fallible God's opinions that led them astray!
annanicole
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8/14/2015 5:43:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:38:48 AM, Composer wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
The fatal problem for the Botchtowerites & their supporters is this -

"The Lord has graciously provided for the publication of his message in the form of books, that the people many be informed of the truth....those books do not contain the opinion of any man." (Riches, 1936, p. 384, 385)

So according to the Botchtower it is their fallible God's opinions that led them astray!

Well, they'll say that was just another mistake - probably #213, Part C - that they fixed as the light got brighter.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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8/14/2015 6:33:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:38:48 AM, Composer wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
The fatal problem for the Botchtowerites & their supporters is this -

"The Lord has graciously provided for the publication of his message in the form of books, that the people many be informed of the truth....those books do not contain the opinion of any man." (Riches, 1936, p. 384, 385)

So according to the Botchtower it is their fallible God's opinions that led them astray!

At 8/14/2015 5:43:18 AM, annanicole wrote:
Well, they'll say that was just another mistake - probably #213, Part C - that they fixed as the light got brighter.
They can't legitimately make that claim, because they already said " no opinion in their books of propaganda came from any human! ".
tstor
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8/17/2015 9:38:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:

Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
Yes. I have no issue with that line of work.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
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8/17/2015 10:11:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 9:38:12 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:

Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.
Yes. I have no issue with that line of work.

How about backing up and considering that the whole line of reasoning that led to all of this constant (and erroneous) date-setting was wrong in the first place?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
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8/18/2015 12:21:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 10:11:51 PM, annanicole wrote:

How about backing up and considering that the whole line of reasoning that led to all of this constant (and erroneous) date-setting was wrong in the first place?
Well, that is a different topic in and of itself. I was saying that I have no issue with slimming down the possibilities and re-calculating. If you take issue with the original 1914 calculation then that it different. I think that we both know how they got the calculation and therefore there is no point in arguing about it.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
kjw47
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8/18/2015 12:37:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 9:18:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

the jw's do not teach what the apostles taught...

How many times did your teachers teach you this fact spoken by Jesus and 3 real teachers????--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28---1Peter 1:3--Rev 1:6--Jesus has a God-his Father.
The #1 teaching in the nt--yet not a single trinity teacher ever teaches this fact. If they did teach it they would have to teach--God has a God, with another God(HS) over there--but there is only 1 God= pure confusion--that is why all of creation sees the 33,000 different trinity religions as a mass of confusion--Gods word describes it like this--A house divided will not stand( Mark 3:24-26) --one can believe Jesus or find out the hard way.
kjw47
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8/18/2015 12:41:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornishClown: Only if they ever go against Jehovah's word will I ever turn against them.

Anna: Well, they've done exactly that dozens upon dozens of times, and continue to do so. So start turning, dude.

MadCornishClown: No, they have not. They just got the wrong impression from it a few times, not dozens.

Anna: Wrong impression? Why, those tards scurried about the countryside for year

(4) "Wrong Impression' #4, i. e. calculating dates based upon pyramids: "Then measuring down the 'Entrance Passage' from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the 'Pit,' representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble" Thy Kingdom Come, 1904, 342

(5) "No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord"s return in power, there has been a complete change in God"s operations." WatchTower, September 15, 1922, p. 278

(6) "Wrong Impression" #6: "The Kingdom of God is already begun, which is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" which will end in 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." Studies in the Scriptures Vol.2, 1906 p.101

(7) "Wrong impression" #7: "The length of time is indicated by him when he said, 'Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' (Matt. 24:34) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a "generation" in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period." Watchtower, July 1, 1951, p. 404

(8) "Wrong Impression" #8: "To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon." - Watchtower, Sept. 1 1952 pp 542-543

(9) "Wrong Impression" #9: "However, the expression "this generation" was used by Jesus to mark a very limited period of time, the life-span of members of a generation of people living during the time that certain epoch-making events occurred. According to Psalm 90:10, that life-span could be of seventy years or even of eighty years." Watchtower 1967 December 15 p.751

(10) "Wrong Impression" #10: "Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice... Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccination." The Golden Age 1921 Oct 12 p.17

(11) "Wrong Impression" #11: "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the anti typical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." The Watchtower. May 15, 1922

(12) "Wrong Impression" #12: "about April 1, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies" Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1925 p110

(13) "Wrong Impression" #13: "(By 1925), you will have secured the services of the best decorators you can find. Some of them used to be undertakers; but since there are no more people dying, they have had to seek some new occupation. Their experience as undertakers prepared them to become decorators with very little difficulty. The Way To Paradise, 1924 p.228

(14) "Wrong Impression" #14: "On May 19, 1780 (still 'in those days,' the 1260 years of Papal power, but after that power had begun to wane and the brunt of the tribulation had passed) a phenomenal darkening of the sun occurred, for which scientists of that time and since have never been able to account.. This unaccountable day, except as a sign from the Lord" Studies in the Scriptures IV - Battle of Armageddon p585

(15) "Wrong Impression" #15: "We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trumpet' began its sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble." WatchTower, November 1890, p. 1

(16) "Wrong Impression" #16: "For "the holy place" to be "brought", or restored, to what it should be, the 2,300 days must have begun when it previously was in the "right condition" from God"s standpoint. At the earliest, this was on June 1, 1938" Pay Attention to Daniel"s Prophecy! 1999 p177

(17) "Wrong Impression" #17: "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man"s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E." - Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p28

"Six Thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete in A.D. 1872, and hence that since A.D. 1872, we chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." - Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2, 1889, P 33

*** When exactly did this "seventh period" or "seventh millennium" start anyhow? 1872 or 1975? "God's Mouthpiece" has claimed both.

(18) "Wrong Impression" #18: "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 485

(19) "Wrong Impression" #19: "As a result of the publication of wholesome truth on the subject, there are fewer people now purchasing aluminum cooking utensils than heretofore. There is also a pronounced drop in the cancer death rate. Much aluminum used: many cancers. Less aluminum used: fewer cancers." The Golden Age 1930 p.650

Using aluminum cooking utensils causes cancer? Since when?

(20) "Wrong Impression" #20: "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'." The Watchtower, 1st December 1904 p 364

Did "Christ a

Today is what counts--not yesterday. especially not 115 years ago.
Why do you have to be so immature as not to use MCB,s name correctly? To make fun of someone--spirit of Jesus or spirit of antichrist--which?
kjw47
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8/18/2015 12:51:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/14/2015 4:40:04 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:57:20 AM, annanicole wrote:

"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

I had seen it. It looks like a bunch of excuses which seek to water down their claims over the years.
I am sorry you see it that way. I personally do not.

They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate.

I just said, "What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction .... " Compare that to what you said, "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate."
I was not disagreeing with you. I am saying that as you make one prediction and it is wrong, you can usually make a better one next time around. It is process of elimination. If I have five keys and one does not work, I move to the next one. If none of the work, I move to the next door.

I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.

Because your way only leads to one erroneous calculation after another. That's why they screwed up pertaining to ....

1874
1878
1914
1915
1918
1925
1926

and on and on and on.

IDK how many chances a reasonable person would give an organization that makes these wild calculations again and again and again - and insists that its members promote these calculations until Ol' Father Time proves them wrong ... again.

"Your way"? I am beginning to believe that you are associating me with Witnesses. I am not one. If I was, I would come right out and say it.

Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.

Yes the undoing of 1750 years of false teachings created at Catholicism councils and translated into Gods written word by the great apostasy. We all have confidence if it was you, it would have been done overnight, right? Or would it have taken years of hard study by many men, of Gods written word, lexicons, septuagint, old writings, history, languages? And you require perfection from imperfection--its a good thing you arenty God, no one would survive.
Yet you bow everyday to a non existent trinity and let satan mislead you into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily, because you know more than groups of men who have studied 7 days a week for the last 125 years or so.
Then you should be able to share all of the corrections your religious teachers have made so this became a reality here in these last days( Daniel 12:4) because not a single mortal knew those hidden truths until these last days--corrections had to be made because all the info was in Gods written word for 1750 years or more, just hidden. And taught on those hidden truths all throughout those 1750 years.
Please share them so light is available to all.
annanicole
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8/18/2015 1:21:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 12:51:43 AM, kjw47 wrote:
At 8/14/2015 5:07:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/14/2015 4:40:04 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/14/2015 12:57:20 AM, annanicole wrote:

"You"? When have I claimed to be God's mouthpiece? On another note, weren't you the one who was posting on my thread titled "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses"? If that is so, then you would know the explanation for the "mouthpiece" claim. Read my initial post here:
http://www.debate.org...

I had seen it. It looks like a bunch of excuses which seek to water down their claims over the years.
I am sorry you see it that way. I personally do not.

They realize that there have been bad predictions. When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate.

I just said, "What you don't do is: back up, re-calculate and issue yet another false prediction .... " Compare that to what you said, "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate."
I was not disagreeing with you. I am saying that as you make one prediction and it is wrong, you can usually make a better one next time around. It is process of elimination. If I have five keys and one does not work, I move to the next one. If none of the work, I move to the next door.

I fail to see why you have an issue with that, especially when you do not adhere to it.

Because your way only leads to one erroneous calculation after another. That's why they screwed up pertaining to ....

1874
1878
1914
1915
1918
1925
1926

and on and on and on.

IDK how many chances a reasonable person would give an organization that makes these wild calculations again and again and again - and insists that its members promote these calculations until Ol' Father Time proves them wrong ... again.

"Your way"? I am beginning to believe that you are associating me with Witnesses. I am not one. If I was, I would come right out and say it.

Your way = "When they get it wrong, they narrow down the possibilities and re-calculate." That was your suggestion as to how such things should be handled. And that's just what they did. Repeatedly.


Yes the undoing of 1750 years of false teachings created at Catholicism councils and translated into Gods written word by the great apostasy.

Catholicism had zilch to do with the BotchTower's numerous false predictions concerning prophesies that had already been fulfilled.

We all have confidence if it was you, it would have been done overnight, right?

It, what? I do not have a penchant for looking at prophesies that have long since been fulfilled, then setting some yet-future date for fulfillment. Then, when nothing happens, I wouldn't just make up another date for nothing to happen.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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8/18/2015 1:31:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 12:41:58 AM, kjw47 wrote:
At 8/13/2015 4:50:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornishClown: Only if they ever go against Jehovah's word will I ever turn against them.

Anna: Well, they've done exactly that dozens upon dozens of times, and continue to do so. So start turning, dude.

MadCornishClown: No, they have not. They just got the wrong impression from it a few times, not dozens.

Anna: Wrong impression? Why, those tards scurried about the countryside for year

(4) "Wrong Impression' #4, i. e. calculating dates based upon pyramids: "Then measuring down the 'Entrance Passage' from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the 'Pit,' representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble" Thy Kingdom Come, 1904, 342

(5) "No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord"s return in power, there has been a complete change in God"s operations." WatchTower, September 15, 1922, p. 278

(6) "Wrong Impression" #6: "The Kingdom of God is already begun, which is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" which will end in 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." Studies in the Scriptures Vol.2, 1906 p.101

(7) "Wrong impression" #7: "The length of time is indicated by him when he said, 'Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' (Matt. 24:34) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a "generation" in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period." Watchtower, July 1, 1951, p. 404

(8) "Wrong Impression" #8: "To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon." - Watchtower, Sept. 1 1952 pp 542-543

(9) "Wrong Impression" #9: "However, the expression "this generation" was used by Jesus to mark a very limited period of time, the life-span of members of a generation of people living during the time that certain epoch-making events occurred. According to Psalm 90:10, that life-span could be of seventy years or even of eighty years." Watchtower 1967 December 15 p.751

(10) "Wrong Impression" #10: "Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice... Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccination." The Golden Age 1921 Oct 12 p.17

(11) "Wrong Impression" #11: "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the anti typical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." The Watchtower. May 15, 1922

(12) "Wrong Impression" #12: "about April 1, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies" Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1925 p110

(13) "Wrong Impression" #13: "(By 1925), you will have secured the services of the best decorators you can find. Some of them used to be undertakers; but since there are no more people dying, they have had to seek some new occupation. Their experience as undertakers prepared them to become decorators with very little difficulty. The Way To Paradise, 1924 p.228

(14) "Wrong Impression" #14: "On May 19, 1780 (still 'in those days,' the 1260 years of Papal power, but after that power had begun to wane and the brunt of the tribulation had passed) a phenomenal darkening of the sun occurred, for which scientists of that time and since have never been able to account.. This unaccountable day, except as a sign from the Lord" Studies in the Scriptures IV - Battle of Armageddon p585

(15) "Wrong Impression" #15: "We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trumpet' began its sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble." WatchTower, November 1890, p. 1

(16) "Wrong Impression" #16: "For "the holy place" to be "brought", or restored, to what it should be, the 2,300 days must have begun when it previously was in the "right condition" from God"s standpoint. At the earliest, this was on June 1, 1938" Pay Attention to Daniel"s Prophecy! 1999 p177

(17) "Wrong Impression" #17: "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man"s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E." - Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p28

"Six Thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete in A.D. 1872, and hence that since A.D. 1872, we chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." - Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2, 1889, P 33

*** When exactly did this "seventh period" or "seventh millennium" start anyhow? 1872 or 1975? "God's Mouthpiece" has claimed both.

(18) "Wrong Impression" #18: "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." The Finished Mystery (SS-7), 1917 ed., p. 485

(19) "Wrong Impression" #19: "As a result of the publication of wholesome truth on the subject, there are fewer people now purchasing aluminum cooking utensils than heretofore. There is also a pronounced drop in the cancer death rate. Much aluminum used: many cancers. Less aluminum used: fewer cancers." The Golden Age 1930 p.650

Using aluminum cooking utensils causes cancer? Since when?

(20) "Wrong Impression" #20: "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - 'Christmas day'." The Watchtower, 1st December 1904 p 364

Did "Christ a



Today is what counts--not yesterday. especially not 115 years ago.

Yesterday was today, at one time. At at that one time, the WatchTower was busily telling the world that it was "God's organization" and "God's mouthpiece" and all that stuff. But just look at the nonsense they were purveying. Even they don't believe the BS, mainly because the clock ticked and the calendar flipped and guess what? None of it ever came to pass! Instead of renouncing their ridiculous prophetic notions, as most of the old Millerites did, they simply backed up and issued yet another doomed-to-fail prediction. Sorry, but that's simply not an acceptable behavior for "God's mouthpiece."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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8/18/2015 1:33:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 12:21:56 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/17/2015 10:11:51 PM, annanicole wrote:

How about backing up and considering that the whole line of reasoning that led to all of this constant (and erroneous) date-setting was wrong in the first place?

Well, that is a different topic in and of itself. I was saying that I have no issue with slimming down the possibilities and re-calculating. If you take issue with the original 1914 calculation then that it different. I think that we both know how they got the calculation and therefore there is no point in arguing about it.

Yeah, I know where they got it, and I also know that nothing that they forecast to happen in 1914 came to pass, either. Nothing. They've never gotten anything right along that line. And there's a reason for it. And the #1 reason is that they apply an ultraliteralistic approach to prophesy that was long-ago fulfilled. That's why they have found it to be impossible to establish future dates.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
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8/18/2015 1:36:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 1:33:21 AM, annanicole wrote:

Yeah, I know where they got it, and I also know that nothing that they forecast to happen in 1914 came to pass, either. Nothing. They've never gotten anything right along that line. And there's a reason for it. And the #1 reason is that they apply an ultraliteralistic approach to prophesy that was long-ago fulfilled. That's why they have found it to be impossible to establish future dates.
Indeed, that is why they had to re-calculate. 1914 was changed from the end of the system to the returning of Christ's presence. Anything after that has strictly been speculation.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
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8/18/2015 1:41:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 1:36:11 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:33:21 AM, annanicole wrote:

Yeah, I know where they got it, and I also know that nothing that they forecast to happen in 1914 came to pass, either. Nothing. They've never gotten anything right along that line. And there's a reason for it. And the #1 reason is that they apply an ultraliteralistic approach to prophesy that was long-ago fulfilled. That's why they have found it to be impossible to establish future dates.

Indeed, that is why they had to re-calculate. 1914 was changed from the end of the system to the returning of Christ's presence.

Yep, an "invisible presence" that no one can document, no one can see, no one can verify .... and on and on. That's all they could come up with. Of course, they knew nothing about this "invisible presence" prior to 1914. They missed that part. Ya know, it's almost like they struggled to salvage a little something out of all the hoopla, and that's the best they could come up with on the spur of the moment.

Of course, within a couple of years, they had made up a brand new one: 1925. And at the time, they claimed 1925 was even more "verifiable by scripture" than 1914. 'Course we know that 1925 came and went - and again nothing happened.

Repeat: the REASON for all of these goof-ups is that they look at OT prophesies that were long ago fulfilled ... then claim they weren't fulfilled in the first place ... then get their notepads and slide rules out.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
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8/18/2015 2:00:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 1:41:02 AM, annanicole wrote:

Yep, an "invisible presence" that no one can document, no one can see, no one can verify .... and on and on. That's all they could come up with. Of course, they knew nothing about this "invisible presence" prior to 1914. They missed that part. Ya know, it's almost like they struggled to salvage a little something out of all the hoopla, and that's the best they could come up with on the spur of the moment.
You act like the invisible presence was a new idea. It was originally 1874.

Of course, within a couple of years, they had made up a brand new one: 1925. And at the time, they claimed 1925 was even more "verifiable by scripture" than 1914. 'Course we know that 1925 came and went - and again nothing happened.
Just like 1975, the Watchtower never made any direct statement to say that 1925 was definitely going to be Armageddon.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
annanicole
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8/18/2015 2:11:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:00:31 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:41:02 AM, annanicole wrote:

Yep, an "invisible presence" that no one can document, no one can see, no one can verify .... and on and on. That's all they could come up with. Of course, they knew nothing about this "invisible presence" prior to 1914. They missed that part. Ya know, it's almost like they struggled to salvage a little something out of all the hoopla, and that's the best they could come up with on the spur of the moment.
You act like the invisible presence was a new idea. It was originally 1874.

Of course, within a couple of years, they had made up a brand new one: 1925. And at the time, they claimed 1925 was even more "verifiable by scripture" than 1914. 'Course we know that 1925 came and went - and again nothing happened.
Just like 1975, the Watchtower never made any direct statement to say that 1925 was definitely going to be Armageddon.

They said that 1925 would mark the resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and a host of other OT characters. They told grieving mothers whose sons had been recently been killed over in Flanders Field that their sons would be back in 1925 - and chided non-WatchTower-associated preachers for not preaching it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."