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No spirit, no afterlife

janesix
Posts: 3,436
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8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/16/2015 5:59:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife.

When was this discovery made?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
janesix
Posts: 3,436
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8/16/2015 6:01:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:59:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife.

When was this discovery made?

Just now.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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8/16/2015 6:35:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 6:01:44 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/16/2015 5:59:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife.

When was this discovery made?

Just now.

Oh. I'll notify the press.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
fromantle
Posts: 274
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8/16/2015 8:04:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?

At the moment the selfconciousness of humans is not explainable.
The atheist neuroscientist Sam Harris takes the same view as you do and as a result he denies the existence of ' The Self ' which he calls the ghost in the machine..Sam has also been forced to deny free will and is a total determinist.
Its my belief that animals are not self conscious, they have no moral judgement and cannot commit crime. This concerned Sam who wrote a book callef The moral landscape
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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8/16/2015 8:52:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?

Our knowledge of the brain merely shows that souls are not necessary, not that they definitely do not exist.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
arnold_torsen
Posts: 25
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8/17/2015 6:59:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain? : :

All things visible and invisible came from the thoughts of our Creator. A brain is only a thought and nothing else.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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8/17/2015 7:51:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 8:04:37 PM, fromantle wrote:
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?

At the moment the selfconciousness of humans is not explainable.
The atheist neuroscientist Sam Harris takes the same view as you do and as a result he denies the existence of ' The Self ' which he calls the ghost in the machine..Sam has also been forced to deny free will and is a total determinist.
Its my belief that animals are not self conscious, they have no moral judgement and cannot commit crime. This concerned Sam who wrote a book callef The moral landscape

Animals are indeed selfconscious since we are animals too. But other animals also have consciousness, like chimps and some cetaceans: they know they have a mind and are capable of thinking about their thoughts (metacognition). I believe animals, say an orca, can indeed commit crimes and be held responsible for it by other orcas. It is not big news that a lot of mammal societies reject particular individuals because of their behaviour. Consciousness is not a human-only trait, nor is morality.
kp98
Posts: 729
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8/17/2015 11:34:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Our knowledge of the brain merely shows that souls are not necessary, not that they definitely do not exist.

Our knowledge of the brain does not include how brains produce consciousness. For all we know a soul - or something like it - is necessary for consciousness. I don't think that is the case, but until someone comes up with a materialistic theory of consciousness that actually works (by which I mean it tells us how to build a conscious machine) we can't rule souls out except on dogmatic grounds. That is not a situation an ardent atheisic materialist such as me is comfortable with, but I can't deny that is the current state of affairs, AFAIK.

No doubt we will have a materialistic/mechanistic/non-dualist theory of consciousness one day, but we don't have one right now.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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8/17/2015 5:14:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm an interested layman and I try to keep up with the latest scientific thought.
I must admit I find some of the books difficult but I have attempted to read Sam Harris and Steven Pinker along with Richard Dawkins.
It seems to me there are many knotty problems regarding explaining the brain of man.
It started with Wallace the co - discoverer of natural selection and is known as Wallace's paradox. To quote Steven Pinker in ' How the Mind Works'
' Savages have brains equal to modern man , why? since they don't need them-- just how could they have evolved?
According to Steven Pinker this unhinged Alfred Wallace and he turned to creationism.
Later in his fascinating book Steven Pinker suggests that as the brain must be a product of naural selection it may well be limited and unable to solve many problems. Its a difficult problem and one of the reasons I remain agnostic.
Self conciousness is different from consciousness and at some time children become self concious and develope a conscience. The religious person would say our conscience convects us of sin; it certainly does force us to judge ourselves.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/17/2015 9:44:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?

brains prove nothing. theyre necessary for life on Earth. a sort of Receiver to the Holy Spirit and to God.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
mindtrainer
Posts: 28
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8/17/2015 10:19:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 9:44:07 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/16/2015 5:52:44 PM, janesix wrote:
Brains are proof that there is no spirit,and no afterlife. What is the point of brains if not consciousness? There isn't anywhere for spirit or soul to go outside the brain.

If there is a soul, what is the point of a brain?

brains prove nothing. theyre necessary for life on Earth. a sort of Receiver to the Holy Spirit and to God. : :

The visible brain is not our true created existence but it does make God's people wonder what it is.
kp98
Posts: 729
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8/18/2015 10:45:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
it does make God's people wonder what it is.I

It's for cooling the blood - we've known that since Aristotle.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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8/18/2015 2:48:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 8:04:37 PM, fromantle wrote:

<snip>
Its my belief that animals are not self conscious, they have no moral judgement and cannot commit crime. This concerned Sam who wrote a book callef The moral landscape

Have you heard of the "Mirror Self-Recognition Test"? It is used to determine whether a non-human animal possesses the ability of self-recognition, and subsequently, is a measurement of self-awareness.

Very few species have passed the MSR test. As of 2015, only the great apes (excluding gorillas), a single Asiatic elephant, dolphins and potentially other cetaceans, the Eurasian magpie, and some ants, have passed the MSR test. A wide range of species have been reported to fail the test including gorillas, several monkey species, giant pandas, sea lions, pigeons and dogs. (Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org...)
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/18/2015 3:14:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.

Energy is well defined, detectable, measurable. Your so-called 'spirit' is not. Please stop trying to make these false equivalencies. That's a poor analogy at best so your assertion is still rejected due to lack of any real evidence.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/18/2015 3:29:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 3:14:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.

Energy is well defined, detectable, measurable. Your so-called 'spirit' is not. Please stop trying to make these false equivalencies. That's a poor analogy at best so your assertion is still rejected due to lack of any real evidence.

You won't accept what I say. It isn't because what I'm saying isn't true. What more can I say? I've said enough to where you should be able to see how the concept describes a real thing. I'm just telling you the truth and you refuse to accept it. There is no point in me saying any more about the matter to you.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/18/2015 3:34:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 3:29:10 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:14:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.

Energy is well defined, detectable, measurable. Your so-called 'spirit' is not. Please stop trying to make these false equivalencies. That's a poor analogy at best so your assertion is still rejected due to lack of any real evidence.

You won't accept what I say. It isn't because what I'm saying isn't true. What more can I say? I've said enough to where you should be able to see how the concept describes a real thing. I'm just telling you the truth and you refuse to accept it. There is no point in me saying any more about the matter to you.

I will accept what you say when you can demonstrate that what you say has some factual basis, not just your bare assertion of special knowledge. You're right, it's pointless to discuss the subject otherwise since it falls into the realm of pure fantasy. As long as you state it as fact, however, I will challenge it.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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8/18/2015 3:36:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 3:34:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:29:10 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:14:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.

Energy is well defined, detectable, measurable. Your so-called 'spirit' is not. Please stop trying to make these false equivalencies. That's a poor analogy at best so your assertion is still rejected due to lack of any real evidence.

You won't accept what I say. It isn't because what I'm saying isn't true. What more can I say? I've said enough to where you should be able to see how the concept describes a real thing. I'm just telling you the truth and you refuse to accept it. There is no point in me saying any more about the matter to you.

I will accept what you say when you can demonstrate that what you say has some factual basis, not just your bare assertion of special knowledge. You're right, it's pointless to discuss the subject otherwise since it falls into the realm of pure fantasy. As long as you state it as fact, however, I will challenge it.

Your willful ignorance is astounding.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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8/18/2015 4:42:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 3:36:28 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:34:13 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:29:10 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:14:57 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 3:08:25 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:37:46 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:34:27 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:22:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:18:19 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 8/17/2015 9:41:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 5:43:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
You very clearly are in a causal relationship with the rest of the universe. Your brain/body doesn't work on its own.

Spirit is that which moves through everything. It is like the breath of God. The motion of the universe led into your current state of being, and the motion of the universe sustains current state of being. When your current state of being is no longer there, the motion of the universe will still be.

Certainly, there is an afterlife.

Unsupported assertions of special knowledge that cannot be verified or potentially falsified and are, therefore, rejected.

If you do not believe that the world existed before you and will exist after you, there probably isn't much that you would consider to be verifiable.

There is significant evidence that the world existed before and will exist after I am gone. My ancestors, without whom I would not exist, and my descendants, who will live after I am gone just to name a few. Now that we've dealt with your misstatement of what I said, try again.

Your assertion that there is an afterlife is one of special knowledge that cannot be potentially falsified or verified. It is unsupported by any viable, factual evidence. It can be rejected due to that lack of evidence. If you want to demonstrate that I am incorrect in this statement, please provide your evidence so that it can be evaluated. Until you have some, you haven't a leg to stand on.

The spirit surviving death is something that is easily verifiable. In fact, you pretty much just admitted belief in such a thing, though you realize it not.

After life the world keeps spinning. Here after life will continue.

The problem isn't that you don't believe in the spirit surviving death, you just don't know what spirit is supposed to represent.

Well, once you define spirit and explain just how you determined it to exist so I can follow your methodology, I'll listen to what you have to say. Until then it's just semantically null noise, meaningless to anyone not predisposed to believe as you do.

The closest approximation to a scientific concept I could give you is how "energy" is described in physics.

Energy is well defined, detectable, measurable. Your so-called 'spirit' is not. Please stop trying to make these false equivalencies. That's a poor analogy at best so your assertion is still rejected due to lack of any real evidence.

You won't accept what I say. It isn't because what I'm saying isn't true. What more can I say? I've said enough to where you should be able to see how the concept describes a real thing. I'm just telling you the truth and you refuse to accept it. There is no point in me saying any more about the matter to you.

I will accept what you say when you can demonstrate that what you say has some factual basis, not just your bare assertion of special knowledge. You're right, it's pointless to discuss the subject otherwise since it falls into the realm of pure fantasy. As long as you state it as fact, however, I will challenge it.

Your willful ignorance is astounding.

And your arrogant self assurance in something you cannot demonstrate is total incredible to me so we're kind of even there.
fromantle
Posts: 274
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8/19/2015 8:25:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
That our origin was from the higher mammals is undoubtedly true, and that a glimmer ofhumanity can be detected in some of the more intelligent ones is not surprising.
As pointed out by Steven Pinker and others we carry an evolutionary baggage which reflects in our behaviour as exemplified in our history.
We are still driven instictively by ' survival of the fittest' but our reasoning contests this in the form of an inner conscience, which is not seen in the animals we left behind in the evolutionary race.
' Human evil is a natural phenomenon, and some level of predatory violence is innate in ud' Sam Harris
A slightly different standpoint is taken by Steven Pinker.
' The present is the most peaceful time in history.Our peaceable motives have been given the upper hand due to technological advance.
From: The better angels of our nature Steven Pinker.