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If God is omniscient, then...

drpiek
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8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/20/2015 7:59:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

is there a point or a question somewhere on the horizon? LOL.

God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/20/2015 8:14:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:59:48 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

is there a point or a question somewhere on the horizon? LOL.

God Bless.

Just looking for peoples thoughts on what omniscient means for them.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/20/2015 8:47:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

The proposition of omniscience is unprovable. We can infer then that it's a claim made by humans for human purposes.

What purposes?

I think it's good for several uses, like insisting that adherents can't evade moral culpability; and telling members of competing faiths that your god is smarter. :)
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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8/20/2015 9:15:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

People get lost in the "omni" definitions, even though it may seem within these definitions God can do anything but it is quite the opposite, it restricts what God is capable of let me explain.....

I say God is a God of love, you say that cannot be because if God was "omnibenevolent" then evil would not exist....
False. we reap what we sow, evil is the result of choice, period the end. God would created us as robots if the only things we could choose were only those God would choose, the definition becomes a restriction of the dynamics of God.

I say God knows all in the present but God did not know what creation would choose before He created it. You say okay but then God is not "omniscient" if He didn't know who would choose Him. The definition becomes a restrictive force rather than a logical rational idea.
The omniscience of God is found within the knowledge of all in the present, it doesn't mean God preordained every detail of creation, in other words God does not need to know everything in advance to be God

The omnipresent idea is the only one I would endorse as actually legit, this does not restrict the qualities or attributes of God.

Animals are a poor example because although they have "free will" in a sense they do not have a free conscience, they have not the ability to act outside of what their purpose is. When you see animals you are looking at what God intended and they act accordingly. When you look at humans, you are looking at what God intended but they are free to act as they please, in other words they are free to walk outside of what God intended, that is the difference between beast and man.
So your example of the dung beetle may be appropriate but not with humans. animals fulfill their natural purpose but humans have their own will.

God is not a physical Entity that enjoys physical pleasure like we do or that pleasure controls Him, so saying God should know what anal sex with gay couples is like and should enjoy it is an insult, because God does not put material pleasure above that which is righteous and that which is Holy.
In spirituality we move away from the draws of the flesh and cling to that which is spiritual, spiritual being that which is of God and abiding in that. Chasing after fleshly desires because we are duped into believing that is all that matters is nothing short of an illusion, all these things in the flesh will pass away and only that which is spirit and eternal will move on, it is the flesh that dies and the spirit that moves forward.

God is a maximal Being not an omni Being.
Maximal-of or constituting a maximum; the highest or greatest possible.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/21/2015 1:38:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 8:14:31 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:59:48 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

is there a point or a question somewhere on the horizon? LOL.

God Bless.

Just looking for peoples thoughts on what omniscient means for them.

Well I believe in Destiny for all of us. God has our lives mapped out for us and knows what we need and dont need before we think we do. there's an old saying like this: "If you want to make God laugh tell Him your plans!" LOL. Now, you'll ask what about Free Will? We DO have it to an extent, as far as the little day to day things. But I dont think we can change what God has planned for our Final Outcome. an example is, lets say you HAVE to for whatever reason, travel from LA to Boston and be in Boston when yo die. well you can take different routes to get there but you WILL get there! You have free will on the roads you take but the Outcome is Certain.
God also already knows who will Recieve His Grace. Who will Be With Him in Heaven--what I call The Next level. God also began Life on Earth and drives Evolution but He lets the processes of it unfold by natural terms, except He is the "software" the Intel in the DNA. God sometimes Physically intervenes in Human or Wordily Affairs, what you call Miricals, but not very often. He does sometimes give us Signs--like when I was Saved if he thinks this is needed by us to get back on the Track he has set for us. But usually He lets us alone to find our own way. He DOES sometimes change His "mind" on whom will be with Him in the Afterlife if while on our pre-set paths we display some remarkable works and qualities. This also is not the norm bu is unusual.
Now: How does he choose who is to Be Saved? His "Irresistable Grace?" this is Calvinist thought that says if God decides to Save us we CANNOT resist it. I don't know His reasoning. Or why He chooses who He chooses. And I dont know what we have to do to "change our stars" and get Grace H originally was not going to bestow upon us.
These are only my ideas I have gleaned since entering my relationship with God and His Chosen Son, Jesus Christ a year ago. I am still in the learning process. I have decided to Devote mt Life to God as I think this is why he Saved me from Death.
God Bless you. And may He Keep You!!!
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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8/21/2015 1:18:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The whole point of the concept of "God" is that God is not us. God is that which transcends us. So our presuming to understand God's omniscience is a self-contradictory activity. Omniscience is by definition beyond our comprehension. So that when we play these games of intellectual sophistry, and turn concepts like omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omni-consciousness, and the like against themselves, we are only proving the limitations of our own understanding, and how those limitations lead us into endless paradox.

Because we are not God.
deadeye
Posts: 3
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8/21/2015 1:24:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:38:43 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/20/2015 8:14:31 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:59:48 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

is there a point or a question somewhere on the horizon? LOL.

God Bless.

Just looking for peoples thoughts on what omniscient means for them.

Well I believe in Destiny for all of us. God has our lives mapped out for us and knows what we need and dont need before we think we do. there's an old saying like this: "If you want to make God laugh tell Him your plans!" LOL. Now, you'll ask what about Free Will? We DO have it to an extent, as far as the little day to day things. But I dont think we can change what God has planned for our Final Outcome. an example is, lets say you HAVE to for whatever reason, travel from LA to Boston and be in Boston when yo die. well you can take different routes to get there but you WILL get there! You have free will on the roads you take but the Outcome is Certain.
God also already knows who will Recieve His Grace. Who will Be With Him in Heaven--what I call The Next level. God also began Life on Earth and drives Evolution but He lets the processes of it unfold by natural terms, except He is the "software" the Intel in the DNA. God sometimes Physically intervenes in Human or Wordily Affairs, what you call Miricals, but not very often. He does sometimes give us Signs--like when I was Saved if he thinks this is needed by us to get back on the Track he has set for us. But usually He lets us alone to find our own way. He DOES sometimes change His "mind" on whom will be with Him in the Afterlife if while on our pre-set paths we display some remarkable works and qualities. This also is not the norm bu is unusual.
Now: How does he choose who is to Be Saved? His "Irresistable Grace?" this is Calvinist thought that says if God decides to Save us we CANNOT resist it. I don't know His reasoning. Or why He chooses who He chooses. And I dont know what we have to do to "change our stars" and get Grace H originally was not going to bestow upon us. : :

God chose all His people to be saved from their wicked flesh and this world. All you have to do is listen to His voice ( the true gospel ), and learn what His plans are. Otherwise, you will remain confused like all Christians are.

These are only my ideas I have gleaned since entering my relationship with God and His Chosen Son, Jesus Christ a year ago. I am still in the learning process. I have decided to Devote mt Life to God as I think this is why he Saved me from Death.
God Bless you. And may He Keep You!!!
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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8/21/2015 1:41:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

If God is omniscient, He must be omnipotent, omnipresent, and that means He's perfect as well. One thing you have overstepped in your analogy is that God cannot become a creature not made in His image, and that He isn't a being who runs on feelings, or sin. Meaning, any form of sex is entirely out of the picture. There is no purpose for Him to have sexual pleasure because He has no body parts and He does not lust after the flesh whatsoever. If He is perfect: omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, this must be the case. What your view does is it defines God by a human level of what humans think God might be, which means it is always flawed. And tell me, since when does energy want pleasure? Can't it work on its own?
Omniscient means He knows all things.
He is omnipotent because all things He knows He has ordained to come to pass, and has power over it.
He must be omnipresent then because He ordains, and has control of all things because He knows all things. This does NOT mean He is everything, but it does mean He is everywhere present.
This must be the case if God is omniscient, and, as a result, He has no thought or mind of carnal, or worldly things. He is in perfect accord with Himself.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/21/2015 9:04:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

That thought of how boring it would be was one of the things that lead me to the Panentheist view. It solves this problem. You , me and everyone else are manifestations of God, and we do this because being in the God state can get pretty boring, being the only being for all of eternity and this is how we deal with it. So we live human lives and flirt with our own divinity through dreams, meditation, love, and other emotional highs.
drpiek
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8/21/2015 9:15:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:41:25 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

If God is omniscient, He must be omnipotent, omnipresent, and that means He's perfect as well.

Perfect has many definitions and none that are perfect.

One thing you have overstepped in your analogy is that God cannot become a creature not made in His image, and that He isn't a being who runs on feelings, or sin. Meaning, any form of sex is entirely out of the picture. There is no purpose for Him to have sexual pleasure because He has no body parts and He does not lust after the flesh whatsoever. If He is perfect: omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, this must be the case.

So a perfect being cannot have a body? (Jesus???) Cannot desire or have sex? Where did you come up with that one? To suggest God is omnipotent yet cannot know what it feels like to have sex is just silly.

What your view does is it defines God by a human level of what humans think God might be, which means it is always flawed. And tell me, since when does energy want pleasure? Can't it work on its own?

Huh? Did I say energy wants pleasure?

Omniscient means He knows all things.
He is omnipotent because all things He knows He has ordained to come to pass, and has power over it.
He must be omnipresent then because He ordains, and has control of all things because He knows all things. This does NOT mean He is everything, but it does mean He is everywhere present.

We disagree here, God is everything.

This must be the case if God is omniscient, and, as a result, He has no thought or mind of carnal, or worldly things. He is in perfect accord with Himself.

So in your mind a perfect God cannot know sex? From my view a perfect God would know everything. God would know what it is like to be human, he would know the temptations we have and the pleasures and suffering we have. If God does not fully know these things, he cannot be the perfect Judge, spiritual guide, leader, moral compass, ect,,,
August_Burns_Red
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8/21/2015 9:17:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

You recommend a sci-fi series of man-written books to explain the Mind of God? Wow. I thought you knew a bit more about God than that, even for a Atheist. Dull? Suicide from Boredom? again, you bind God and worse belittle Him with Human atributes. Why? Simple..human attributes are all you guys know. makes sense, dont get me wrong. But i just find it ironic that a guy who denies God recommends Sci Fi for a good source of Theodicy.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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8/21/2015 9:35:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

If God is in everything, we are just God having a seperate unique experience.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/21/2015 9:51:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 9:35:48 PM, janesix wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

If God is in everything, we are just God having a seperate unique experience.

Exactly
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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8/22/2015 1:39:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 9:04:08 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

That thought of how boring it would be was one of the things that lead me to the Panentheist view. It solves this problem. You , me and everyone else are manifestations of God, and we do this because being in the God state can get pretty boring, being the only being for all of eternity and this is how we deal with it. So we live human lives and flirt with our own divinity through dreams, meditation, love, and other emotional highs.

I fail to see how that solves the problem of his omniscience unless such a belief entails God not having a mind (in which case the question of omniscience becomes moot). Does your panentheism posit a mindless God?
dee-em
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8/22/2015 1:57:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 9:17:25 PM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

You recommend a sci-fi series of man-written books to explain the Mind of God? Wow.

You demonstrate a gift for creating strawmen, ABR. I recommended it for understanding what omniscience entails. Is there a problem with that?

Maybe something simpler would help for you. Try the movie "Groundhog Day". Imagine you knew in perfect detail what the forthcoming day would bring. It drove Bill Murray's character to suicide and that was when he had the power to vary the day slightly and to acquire knowledge. God, with his perfect knowledge, would have no such power. He knows everything now and forever (ignoring the thorny issue of time) and is powerless to change a thing as it would violate his perfect knowledge. No surprises, nothing new, just the things you already know. Dull, dull, dull. If that wouldn't drive any intelligent being to suicide, nothing would.

I thought you knew a bit more about God than that, even for a Atheist.

I know as much about the concept of God as you do. I just think it through logically, whereas you don't. As for how much we know about an actual God, we both know absolutely nothing since he doesn't exist, at least neither of us have any evidence for him.

Dull? Suicide from Boredom? again, you bind God and worse belittle Him with Human atributes. Why? Simple..human attributes are all you guys know. makes sense, dont get me wrong.

Of course it makes sense. Therefore ...

But i just find it ironic that a guy who denies God recommends Sci Fi for a good source of Theodicy.

Strawman and therefore no irony. I recommended it for a deeper understanding of omniscience and the baggage that goes with it. Do you fully appreciate the ramifications of an omniscient mind? I very much doubt it.
ReformedPresbyterian72598
Posts: 293
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8/22/2015 2:16:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 9:15:54 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/21/2015 1:41:25 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

If God is omniscient, He must be omnipotent, omnipresent, and that means He's perfect as well.

Perfect has many definitions and none that are perfect.

If it is consistent with itself, and outside of human proposition, it is something straight that cannot be made crooked. God is perfect, and being those three things is inly part of HIs perfection.

One thing you have overstepped in your analogy is that God cannot become a creature not made in His image, and that He isn't a being who runs on feelings, or sin. Meaning, any form of sex is entirely out of the picture. There is no purpose for Him to have sexual pleasure because He has no body parts and He does not lust after the flesh whatsoever. If He is perfect: omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, this must be the case.

So a perfect being cannot have a body? (Jesus???) Cannot desire or have sex? Where did you come up with that one?

I showed you the verse.

To suggest God is omnipotent yet cannot know what it feels like to have sex is just silly.

No, it isn't. God has no need, or desire to have sex; there is no point for Him to. He came up with sex for we human beings.


What your view does is it defines God by a human level of what humans think God might be, which means it is always flawed. And tell me, since when does energy want pleasure? Can't it work on its own?

Huh? Did I say energy wants pleasure?

You are panentheist. You think what you stated before. You said God has the ability to have sexual pleasure, but you believe God is some kind of energy. So, since when does energy have this pleasure?

Omniscient means He knows all things.
He is omnipotent because all things He knows He has ordained to come to pass, and has power over it.
He must be omnipresent then because He ordains, and has control of all things because He knows all things. This does NOT mean He is everything, but it does mean He is everywhere present.

We disagree here, God is everything.

Lol

This must be the case if God is omniscient, and, as a result, He has no thought or mind of carnal, or worldly things. He is in perfect accord with Himself.

So in your mind a perfect God cannot know sex? From my view a perfect God would know everything. God would know what it is like to be human, he would know the temptations we have and the pleasures and suffering we have.

Yes, He would know that which leads to sin(Christ Himself was tempted), but He does not known sin(meaning He has not committed sin).

If God does not fully know these things, he cannot be the perfect Judge, spiritual guide, leader, moral compass, ect,,,

If God is perfect, why must He experience? If He can do no wrong, all He must do is show us the truth and there is your perfect judge, spiritual guide, moral compass, and etc.
PLEASESTOPLYING
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8/24/2015 3:28:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is a very simple thing to explain. However, you must be willing to set aside all pre-conceived notions and really, truthfully, examine the issue.

The paradoxes that are continually created by omni- this and omni- that are in extremely simple terms brought to light by the same conflict that any lie would be. Many defense attorneys refuse to allow their clients to take the stand in their own defense because a lie is hard to keep up with. You can ask a person who is telling the complete truth questions from any direction and in any sequence and will never be able to truly "trip them up". However, to the same to a person who began with a lie and the task of tripping them up becomes almost child's play.

Being that ALL religions are man made, meaning that all gods are man made with no true basis in reality, it follows that keeping all of the lies/stories/powers straight and congruent becomes impossible.

If what I say is true and all religions/gods are nothing more than ideas thought up by humans then it would follow that you would have 1000's of different gods and religions, because of the regionality of common thought. You would also expect that within a particular religion you would have disagreemnet. I don't know -- maybe a sect of christianity whose bible has 7 more books than others. Maybe hundreds of so called denominations all with their own "interpretations" of the ONE gods word. Maybe some saying trinity, some saying jesus was god, some saying jesus was gods son,

Not to worry Jerry Siegal and Joe Shuster were said to have disagreements about what Superman could and couldn't do too.
Did anyone ever disprove the existence of ZEUS?
skipsaweirdo
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8/30/2015 1:32:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

I hope you eventually seek the psychiatric care that you need because this post is a reflection of you, not an understanding of what you claim constitutes boredom. Why is it that people seem to want to claim what is boredom to someone other than themselves. An adult that displays this apparent form of idiocy does not accomplish a reasoned rejoinder, you merely accomplish a cry for therapy.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,861
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8/30/2015 1:40:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.
I think projecting your homoerotic fantasies onto God satisfies a need in you from a physiological standpoint. I believe you are suppressing childhood sexual abuse and haven't yet confronted the wrong that was done to you. However, "enjoy" is subjective to you therefore to state your idea of enjoy must also be Gods to make your argument is circular logic....
A) what you enjoy constitutes actual enjoyment.(you are all knowing in regards to what is enjoyable)
B) God must feel like me
C) therefore God enjoys what I claim
D) therefore God is all knowing because he must think like me.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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8/30/2015 1:52:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:32:52 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

I hope you eventually seek the psychiatric care that you need because this post is a reflection of you, not an understanding of what you claim constitutes boredom. Why is it that people seem to want to claim what is boredom to someone other than themselves. An adult that displays this apparent form of idiocy does not accomplish a reasoned rejoinder, you merely accomplish a cry for therapy.

Begone, troll.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,861
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8/30/2015 1:56:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:52:35 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:32:52 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/21/2015 1:45:05 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

There is a far worse problem than this. A being who knew everything, and could never be surprised by anything new, would immediately commit suicide from boredom. If you can't imagine such an existence and how mind-numbingly dull it would be, I recommend the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert.

I hope you eventually seek the psychiatric care that you need because this post is a reflection of you, not an understanding of what you claim constitutes boredom. Why is it that people seem to want to claim what is boredom to someone other than themselves. An adult that displays this apparent form of idiocy does not accomplish a reasoned rejoinder, you merely accomplish a cry for therapy.

Begone, troll.
Yeh because ur boyfriend can't handle a little psyche ribbing?
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/30/2015 5:19:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:40:47 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.
I think projecting your homoerotic fantasies onto God satisfies a need in you from a physiological standpoint. I believe you are suppressing childhood sexual abuse and haven't yet confronted the wrong that was done to you. However, "enjoy" is subjective to you therefore to state your idea of enjoy must also be Gods to make your argument is circular logic....
A) what you enjoy constitutes actual enjoyment.(you are all knowing in regards to what is enjoyable)
B) God must feel like me
C) therefore God enjoys what I claim
D) therefore God is all knowing because he must think like me.

I was not abused and I am not homosexual, yet I see no issue with homosexuals. My argument is a bit different. If God is all knowing he must know what it is like to "BE" each and everyone of us. He must know what it is to be every animal, plant, ect. He must know everything, how it feels to love, hate, and experience, everything that can be. Otherwise god is not all knowing, he only is selectively knowing.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,861
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8/30/2015 5:55:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:19:25 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:40:47 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.
I think projecting your homoerotic fantasies onto God satisfies a need in you from a physiological standpoint. I believe you are suppressing childhood sexual abuse and haven't yet confronted the wrong that was done to you. However, "enjoy" is subjective to you therefore to state your idea of enjoy must also be Gods to make your argument is circular logic....
A) what you enjoy constitutes actual enjoyment.(you are all knowing in regards to what is enjoyable)
B) God must feel like me
C) therefore God enjoys what I claim
D) therefore God is all knowing because he must think like me.

I was not abused and I am not homosexual, yet I see no issue with homosexuals. My argument is a bit different. If God is all knowing he must know what it is like to "BE" each and everyone of us. He must know what it is to be every animal, plant, ect. He must know everything, how it feels to love, hate, and experience, everything that can be. Otherwise god is not all knowing, he only is selectively knowing
Ok I was sort of just giving you a hard time . But my contention still stands, if love, hate,,enjoy is subjective, etc, as it is to everyone it therefore is to God. You contend that you must know what it is to enjoy something yet you're incapable of grasping the idea of enjoyment within the infinite wisdom of God. So simply mentioning that was nothing more than being obtuse or gratuitous. You simply attempted to solicit human emotion to describe an instance of what to you would be all knowing. I.e. homosexual sex being "enjoyed". The sexual act is a combination of mental, emotional, and physical. The only thing that separates a mans enjoyment of another mans mouth giving oral pleasure lies within the mind of the person, the physical sensation is no different than a woman. Unless of course you want to get absurd and mention mouth sores or lack of teeth. Lol, Since God knows what is physical pleasure by definition man on man or man on woman is irrelevant, and yes that also even means man on your typical barnyard animal is also known.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/30/2015 6:07:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.

You are omniscient in a way, if you think about it. If I asked you,"What NFL football team has won the most Superbowls?"or,"Who won the Heisman trophy in 1993?", you may not have an interest in these things or even ever think about them, but if you decided to, you could tell me the answers relatively quickly. :-)
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/30/2015 8:23:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You could have access to all knowledge and choose not to indulge in the pieces of it that do not suit who you want to be. I have access to a lot of information on the Internet, but have no interest in some things, so my focus stays where I want it by choice.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/31/2015 4:04:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:55:56 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/30/2015 5:19:25 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:40:47 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/20/2015 7:52:16 PM, drpiek wrote:
If he is that means he knows everything. Most will then want to discuss the issues around free will and Gods ability to know what we are going to do before we do it. Instead, I am going to have some fun and lead the discussion a different direction.

If God is all knowing that means he knows what it is like to actually be a dung beetle and dine on feces. He must also know what it is like to be an Atheist and not believe in himself. God would also need to know what it feels like to be having gay anal sex and enjoy it. If he does not know all of these things then he cannot by definition be omniscient. This line of thinking does not offend my view of a Panentheistic God but I think it may be paradoxical for the Abrahamic religions.
I think projecting your homoerotic fantasies onto God satisfies a need in you from a physiological standpoint. I believe you are suppressing childhood sexual abuse and haven't yet confronted the wrong that was done to you. However, "enjoy" is subjective to you therefore to state your idea of enjoy must also be Gods to make your argument is circular logic....
A) what you enjoy constitutes actual enjoyment.(you are all knowing in regards to what is enjoyable)
B) God must feel like me
C) therefore God enjoys what I claim
D) therefore God is all knowing because he must think like me.

I was not abused and I am not homosexual, yet I see no issue with homosexuals. My argument is a bit different. If God is all knowing he must know what it is like to "BE" each and everyone of us. He must know what it is to be every animal, plant, ect. He must know everything, how it feels to love, hate, and experience, everything that can be. Otherwise god is not all knowing, he only is selectively knowing
Ok I was sort of just giving you a hard time . But my contention still stands, if love, hate,,enjoy is subjective, etc, as it is to everyone it therefore is to God. You contend that you must know what it is to enjoy something yet you're incapable of grasping the idea of enjoyment within the infinite wisdom of God. So simply mentioning that was nothing more than being obtuse or gratuitous. You simply attempted to solicit human emotion to describe an instance of what to you would be all knowing. I.e. homosexual sex being "enjoyed". The sexual act is a combination of mental, emotional, and physical. The only thing that separates a mans enjoyment of another mans mouth giving oral pleasure lies within the mind of the person, the physical sensation is no different than a woman. Unless of course you want to get absurd and mention mouth sores or lack of teeth. Lol, Since God knows what is physical pleasure by definition man on man or man on woman is irrelevant, and yes that also even means man on your typical barnyard animal is also known.

The point is god must know all things, both subjective and objective. He must know what it is like to be YOU, ME, and everyone else. He must know our enjoyment, and pain.
drpiek
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8/31/2015 4:10:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 8:23:12 PM, Sooner wrote:
You could have access to all knowledge and choose not to indulge in the pieces of it that do not suit who you want to be. I have access to a lot of information on the Internet, but have no interest in some things, so my focus stays where I want it by choice.

Access or ability to know is not knowing, but I understand your perspective.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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8/31/2015 4:25:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/21/2015 1:18:47 PM, PureX wrote:
The whole point of the concept of "God" is that God is not us. God is that which transcends us. So our presuming to understand God's omniscience is a self-contradictory activity. Omniscience is by definition beyond our comprehension. So that when we play these games of intellectual sophistry, and turn concepts like omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omni-consciousness, and the like against themselves, we are only proving the limitations of our own understanding, and how those limitations lead us into endless paradox.

Because we are not God.

Nah, we are god, a part of God. We can know all, just not all at once.