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Ten Signs You're A Fundamentalist Christians

Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
Alpha3141
Posts: 154
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8/22/2015 4:48:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."

Well someone dislikes Christians
And also doesn't know much about Christianity
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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8/22/2015 5:02:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.
How reputable. This ought to be fun.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
Vigorously? No. I approach almost all religion with an open mind. I seek for people to prove me wrong. If Islam makes more sense, then I will convert. If Hinduism makes more sense, the I will convert. If atheism makes more sense, then I will abandon my faith. So no, I do not 'vigorously' deny the existence of other gods. I also do not become outraged when someone denies mine. If I did, then I would not have friends of other faiths (or lack of).

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
If I was insulted by the notion of evolution, then I would not be going to college for a biology major or currently taking three biology classes in high school.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
I am not a trinitarian, nor do I laugh at polytheists.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
What 'atrocities'? I have read the Qur'an and several ahadith from cover to cover seeing no issues. I also take no issues with what the Bible claims to have happened in 1400 BCE.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
Once again, I do not laugh at those beliefs.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
I do not spend my life poking holes in scientific conclusions. I do not really have to credentials to do that. As well, I gather that the website it not acquainted with some more modern Biblical thoughts such as the genealogy of the Bible being incomplete or the Hebrew word 'yom' representing an indefinite time period. Which would explain why it is used in Genesis 2:4 for the entire creation period.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Once again, the website must not be acquainted with a lot of Biblical thought. Catholics, JWs, Mormons, etc. do not believe in a literal hellfire. This idea is in harmony with the Bible. Consider Ecclesiastes 9:10, which states that we will be unconscious in hell. As well, most people do not believe that all unbelievers are bound for hell. Especially unbelievers that never got to hear the gospel.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
I do not speak in tongues and nor do I believe that people can.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
Not sure what is meant here. If you pray for a job, there is likely to be failure. That is why you do not pray for earthly or material things.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
I sincerely disagree. I have met many proclaimed 'atheists' that did not even realize that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding on Christians. However, there are also many Christians that fail to understand the Bible and history of it. If you walk into almost any church and ask about homosexuality, they will point you to Leviticus rather than the New Testament. It really shows that they lack understanding of what the new covenant really means.

I would like to finish with stating that the website seems to be adding elements to what Christian fundamentalism is. You can read what it actually is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org...
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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8/22/2015 9:15:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
'Evilbible.com' is 100% atheist propaganda. Read here: http://www.gotquestions.org...
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/22/2015 11:21:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 5:02:31 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.
How reputable. This ought to be fun.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
Vigorously? No. I approach almost all religion with an open mind. I seek for people to prove me wrong. If Islam makes more sense, then I will convert. If Hinduism makes more sense, the I will convert. If atheism makes more sense, then I will abandon my faith. So no, I do not 'vigorously' deny the existence of other gods. I also do not become outraged when someone denies mine. If I did, then I would not have friends of other faiths (or lack of).
How progressive of you.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
If I was insulted by the notion of evolution, then I would not be going to college for a biology major or currently taking three biology classes in high school.
Then why do you deny evolution? Or do you think it's compatible with the Bible?
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
I am not a trinitarian, nor do I laugh at polytheists.
Then you are not as "Fundamental" as you claim. Again, these questions are targeted at Fundamentalist Christians.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
What 'atrocities'? I have read the Qur'an and several ahadith from cover to cover seeing no issues. I also take no issues with what the Bible claims to have happened in 1400 BCE.
Well then, you are quite immoral.
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
Once again, I do not laugh at those beliefs.
But you find them ridiculous yes?
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
I do not spend my life poking holes in scientific conclusions. I do not really have to credentials to do that. As well, I gather that the website it not acquainted with some more modern Biblical thoughts such as the genealogy of the Bible being incomplete or the Hebrew word 'yom' representing an indefinite time period. Which would explain why it is used in Genesis 2:4 for the entire creation period.
Once, again, you are not a fundamentalist who believes in a 6000 year old earth.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Once again, the website must not be acquainted with a lot of Biblical thought. Catholics, JWs, Mormons, etc. do not believe in a literal hellfire. This idea is in harmony with the Bible. Consider Ecclesiastes 9:10, which states that we will be unconscious in hell. As well, most people do not believe that all unbelievers are bound for hell. Especially unbelievers that never got to hear the gospel.
This question is addressed to conservative fundamentalists, not modernists or liberal christians.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
I do not speak in tongues and nor do I believe that people can.
Wonderful.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
Not sure what is meant here. If you pray for a job, there is likely to be failure. That is why you do not pray for earthly or material things.
Wouldn't any type of prayer interfere with free will?

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
I sincerely disagree. I have met many proclaimed 'atheists' that did not even realize that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding on Christians. However, there are also many Christians that fail to understand the Bible and history of it. If you walk into almost any church and ask about homosexuality, they will point you to Leviticus rather than the New Testament. It really shows that they lack understanding of what the new covenant really means.
Isn't it funny how "God" changes a lot of his moral standards between the OT and NT? For instance, in the OT you could be stoned for disobeying your parents, but not in the NT; or how you could be stoned for adultery in the OT, but not the NT. Did God change his mind somewhere?
I would like to finish with stating that the website seems to be adding elements to what Christian fundamentalism is. You can read what it actually is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Fundamentalists such as William Jennings Bryan argued that the earth was created in 6, literal 24 hour days during the Scopes trial of the 1920s. You reject this young earth creationism, but that is the origins of christian fundamentalism in America.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/22/2015 11:25:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 4:48:06 PM, Alpha3141 wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."

Well someone dislikes Christians
And also doesn't know much about Christianity

Care to respond to the list?
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/22/2015 11:26:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 9:15:20 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
'Evilbible.com' is 100% atheist propaganda. Read here: http://www.gotquestions.org...

The gotquestions.org website is Christian propaganda.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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8/22/2015 11:41:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 11:21:49 PM, Heathcliff wrote:

If I was insulted by the notion of evolution, then I would not be going to college for a biology major or currently taking three biology classes in high school.
Then why do you deny evolution? Or do you think it's compatible with the Bible?
I do not have an absolute understanding of my position on the subject in all honesty. I have no issues with evolution or biology even if I am skeptical about it. I am only using biology as a foundation to get into medical school.

I am not a trinitarian, nor do I laugh at polytheists.
Then you are not as "Fundamental" as you claim. Again, these questions are targeted at Fundamentalist Christians.
The trinity has nothing to do with fundamentalism.

What 'atrocities'? I have read the Qur'an and several ahadith from cover to cover seeing no issues. I also take no issues with what the Bible claims to have happened in 1400 BCE.
Well then, you are quite immoral.
Not really. When you take what happened and put it in the historical context in which it happened, it makes a lot of sense.

Once again, I do not laugh at those beliefs.
But you find them ridiculous yes?
No

I do not spend my life poking holes in scientific conclusions. I do not really have to credentials to do that. As well, I gather that the website it not acquainted with some more modern Biblical thoughts such as the genealogy of the Bible being incomplete or the Hebrew word 'yom' representing an indefinite time period. Which would explain why it is used in Genesis 2:4 for the entire creation period.
Once, again, you are not a fundamentalist who believes in a 6000 year old earth.
Fundamentalism has nothing to do with the age of the earth. There are both young and old earth creationists.

Once again, the website must not be acquainted with a lot of Biblical thought. Catholics, JWs, Mormons, etc. do not believe in a literal hellfire. This idea is in harmony with the Bible. Consider Ecclesiastes 9:10, which states that we will be unconscious in hell. As well, most people do not believe that all unbelievers are bound for hell. Especially unbelievers that never got to hear the gospel.
This question is addressed to conservative fundamentalists, not modernists or liberal christians.
JWs are often considered one of the more fundamental Christian denominations. You can be a fundamentalist and still believe Gehenna or the lake of fire to be symbolic.

Not sure what is meant here. If you pray for a job, there is likely to be failure. That is why you do not pray for earthly or material things.
Wouldn't any type of prayer interfere with free will?
Not at all. I could pray for guidance for example. Or pray for the courage and strength to do what needs to be done.

I sincerely disagree. I have met many proclaimed 'atheists' that did not even realize that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding on Christians. However, there are also many Christians that fail to understand the Bible and history of it. If you walk into almost any church and ask about homosexuality, they will point you to Leviticus rather than the New Testament. It really shows that they lack understanding of what the new covenant really means.
Isn't it funny how "God" changes a lot of his moral standards between the OT and NT? For instance, in the OT you could be stoned for disobeying your parents, but not in the NT; or how you could be stoned for adultery in the OT, but not the NT. Did God change his mind somewhere?
God did not change, humans did. In the times of Moses, about 1400 BCE, God was dealing with more 'primitive people'. Not biologically, but mentally. They had just escaped Egyptian bondage after being there for roughly 400 years. They went from being dependent on Egyptians to being independent. They were naive and vulnerable. It makes sense that there would be harsh laws and violent things. Everything during 1400 BCE was harsh and violent.

I would like to finish with stating that the website seems to be adding elements to what Christian fundamentalism is. You can read what it actually is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Fundamentalists such as William Jennings Bryan argued that the earth was created in 6, literal 24 hour days during the Scopes trial of the 1920s. You reject this young earth creationism, but that is the origins of christian fundamentalism in America.
No it is not. There are both old and young earth creationists. Both can be fundamentalists.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/22/2015 11:56:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 11:41:21 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/22/2015 11:21:49 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
What 'atrocities'? I have read the Qur'an and several ahadith from cover to cover seeing no issues. I also take no issues with what the Bible claims to have happened in 1400 BCE.
Well then, you are quite immoral.
Not really. When you take what happened and put it in the historical context in which it happened, it makes a lot of sense.
Please explain to me how God commanding Saul to slaughter all the amalekites (women, children, and animals) in I Samuel 15:1-3 makes a lot of sense in its historical context. Aren't the babies and animals innocent of sin?

Not sure what is meant here. If you pray for a job, there is likely to be failure. That is why you do not pray for earthly or material things.
Wouldn't any type of prayer interfere with free will?
Not at all. I could pray for guidance for example. Or pray for the courage and strength to do what needs to be done.
Giving you courage and strength interferes with your free will because you have been granted bravery that you normally wouldn't have to do something you normally wouldn't do, thereby causing you to do something you wouldn't do without God's help.

I sincerely disagree. I have met many proclaimed 'atheists' that did not even realize that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding on Christians. However, there are also many Christians that fail to understand the Bible and history of it. If you walk into almost any church and ask about homosexuality, they will point you to Leviticus rather than the New Testament. It really shows that they lack understanding of what the new covenant really means.
Isn't it funny how "God" changes a lot of his moral standards between the OT and NT? For instance, in the OT you could be stoned for disobeying your parents, but not in the NT; or how you could be stoned for adultery in the OT, but not the NT. Did God change his mind somewhere?
God did not change, humans did. In the times of Moses, about 1400 BCE, God was dealing with more 'primitive people'. Not biologically, but mentally. They had just escaped Egyptian bondage after being there for roughly 400 years. They went from being dependent on Egyptians to being independent. They were naive and vulnerable. It makes sense that there would be harsh laws and violent things. Everything during 1400 BCE was harsh and violent.
So morality is based upon human intellect, thereby suggesting that morality is really a human construct and "God" has nothing to do with it.
Oreo222
Posts: 180
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8/23/2015 12:01:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 5:02:31 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.
How reputable. This ought to be fun.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
Vigorously? No. I approach almost all religion with an open mind. I seek for people to prove me wrong. If Islam makes more sense, then I will convert. If Hinduism makes more sense, the I will convert. If atheism makes more sense, then I will abandon my faith. So no, I do not 'vigorously' deny the existence of other gods. I also do not become outraged when someone denies mine. If I did, then I would not have friends of other faiths (or lack of).

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
If I was insulted by the notion of evolution, then I would not be going to college for a biology major or currently taking three biology classes in high school.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
I am not a trinitarian, nor do I laugh at polytheists.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
What 'atrocities'? I have read the Qur'an and several ahadith from cover to cover seeing no issues. I also take no issues with what the Bible claims to have happened in 1400 BCE.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
Once again, I do not laugh at those beliefs.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
I do not spend my life poking holes in scientific conclusions. I do not really have to credentials to do that. As well, I gather that the website it not acquainted with some more modern Biblical thoughts such as the genealogy of the Bible being incomplete or the Hebrew word 'yom' representing an indefinite time period. Which would explain why it is used in Genesis 2:4 for the entire creation period.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Once again, the website must not be acquainted with a lot of Biblical thought. Catholics, JWs, Mormons, etc. do not believe in a literal hellfire. This idea is in harmony with the Bible. Consider Ecclesiastes 9:10, which states that we will be unconscious in hell. As well, most people do not believe that all unbelievers are bound for hell. Especially unbelievers that never got to hear the gospel.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
I do not speak in tongues and nor do I believe that people can.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
Not sure what is meant here. If you pray for a job, there is likely to be failure. That is why you do not pray for earthly or material things.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
I sincerely disagree. I have met many proclaimed 'atheists' that did not even realize that the Mosaic Laws were no longer binding on Christians. However, there are also many Christians that fail to understand the Bible and history of it. If you walk into almost any church and ask about homosexuality, they will point you to Leviticus rather than the New Testament. It really shows that they lack understanding of what the new covenant really means.

I would like to finish with stating that the website seems to be adding elements to what Christian fundamentalism is. You can read what it actually is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Then perhaps you're not a fundamentalist.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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8/23/2015 12:49:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 11:56:10 PM, Heathcliff wrote:

Not really. When you take what happened and put it in the historical context in which it happened, it makes a lot of sense.
Please explain to me how God commanding Saul to slaughter all the amalekites (women, children, and animals) in I Samuel 15:1-3 makes a lot of sense in its historical context. Aren't the babies and animals innocent of sin?
You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about. The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people. The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright). We also know, once again, it was 1400 BCE. We are dealing with people from 1400 BCE. God could not make them the most pious and loving people in a day. It was not until roughly 1400 years later that Christ came.

Not at all. I could pray for guidance for example. Or pray for the courage and strength to do what needs to be done.
Giving you courage and strength interferes with your free will because you have been granted bravery that you normally wouldn't have to do something you normally wouldn't do, thereby causing you to do something you wouldn't do without God's help.
No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.

God did not change, humans did. In the times of Moses, about 1400 BCE, God was dealing with more 'primitive people'. Not biologically, but mentally. They had just escaped Egyptian bondage after being there for roughly 400 years. They went from being dependent on Egyptians to being independent. They were naive and vulnerable. It makes sense that there would be harsh laws and violent things. Everything during 1400 BCE was harsh and violent.
So morality is based upon human intellect, thereby suggesting that morality is really a human construct and "God" has nothing to do with it.
Some morality is, yes. I do not think we need God to know whether or not to murder for example. However, there were some concepts of morality that were unique to the Israelites. As well, we know that even when Jesus was teaching, there were moral codes implemented that were very unique.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
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8/23/2015 12:50:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 12:01:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:

Then perhaps you're not a fundamentalist.
I fit the vanilla definition.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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8/23/2015 12:53:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 11:26:19 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/22/2015 9:15:20 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
'Evilbible.com' is 100% atheist propaganda. Read here: http://www.gotquestions.org...

The gotquestions.org website is Christian propaganda.
On the off chance you're not trolling, Got Questions Ministries is not just some random, shadowy website on the Internet like 'Evilbible.com'. 'Evil Bible' likes to twist the Bible to deceive people into thinking that the Bible is bad. And, it's not just Got Questions Ministries that finds 'Evil Bible' to be absolutely false and misleading.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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8/23/2015 1:13:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You superstitious people sure do like chasing your deceptions and lies called good.

I myself find the bible/scriptures a great read, IF you don't get lost in superstitious nonsense.

I always find it interesting watching those that haven't a REAL clue go about their make believe and pretend just as small children do.

There are many aspects of so called science. The stuff that can be proved and all the theories that are mostly wishing and guessing. Now the so called science brainwashed people will say something like, the theories of science are scientific.

That is much like saying that the doctrines of religion are religious.

A fancy dressed sanitation engineer is still a garbage man no matter what they wear or what fancy title you apply.

The "bible" is filled with great information about the many and the few.

Problem is that most are of the many and few are of the few.

but we do have the many few of the many and other such nonsense that people will say when they realize that when the math is shown them that they are wrong, or "might" be right in some other time and place,lol...
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/23/2015 2:17:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."

Thanks...that list confirms my belief Im not Fundamentalist. I could answer yes to NONE of those 10 statements. Thanks. (Not that Fundamentalist Christians are all bad. Many of them have their hearts in the right place and ARE on the Path to Knowing God. I just think they need to place a bit less importance in some of the Bible writings, and give Science MORE importance and credence.

God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
co-partner
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8/23/2015 2:47:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 2:17:07 AM, August_Burns_Red wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."

Thanks...that list confirms my belief Im not Fundamentalist. I could answer yes to NONE of those 10 statements. Thanks. (Not that Fundamentalist Christians are all bad. Many of them have their hearts in the right place and ARE on the Path to Knowing God. I just think they need to place a bit less importance in some of the Bible writings, and give Science MORE importance and credence.

God Bless. : :'

All God's people are on the same path to knowing him in the new heaven and earth.

Jeremiah 31
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

The house of Israel means all God's people in the flesh. Jacob means the spirit of God where all men were created.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/23/2015 7:00:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 12:49:52 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/22/2015 11:56:10 PM, Heathcliff wrote:

Not really. When you take what happened and put it in the historical context in which it happened, it makes a lot of sense.
Please explain to me how God commanding Saul to slaughter all the amalekites (women, children, and animals) in I Samuel 15:1-3 makes a lot of sense in its historical context. Aren't the babies and animals innocent of sin?
You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about. The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people. The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright). We also know, once again, it was 1400 BCE. We are dealing with people from 1400 BCE. God could not make them the most pious and loving people in a day. It was not until roughly 1400 years later that Christ came.
The children have nothing to worry about? Wtf? So if God told you to kill some children, that'd be okay right? Since those children go to Heaven you can just kill some heathen pagan kids right?!

Not at all. I could pray for guidance for example. Or pray for the courage and strength to do what needs to be done.
Giving you courage and strength interferes with your free will because you have been granted bravery that you normally wouldn't have to do something you normally wouldn't do, thereby causing you to do something you wouldn't do without God's help.
No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.
And your decision has been influenced by God since He gave you more strength and bravery than you originally had, thereby influencing your decision.

God did not change, humans did. In the times of Moses, about 1400 BCE, God was dealing with more 'primitive people'. Not biologically, but mentally. They had just escaped Egyptian bondage after being there for roughly 400 years. They went from being dependent on Egyptians to being independent. They were naive and vulnerable. It makes sense that there would be harsh laws and violent things. Everything during 1400 BCE was harsh and violent.
So morality is based upon human intellect, thereby suggesting that morality is really a human construct and "God" has nothing to do with it.
Some morality is, yes. I do not think we need God to know whether or not to murder for example. However, there were some concepts of morality that were unique to the Israelites. As well, we know that even when Jesus was teaching, there were moral codes implemented that were very unique.
So morality is not dictated by God then? Or at the very least, morality must not be objective.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/23/2015 7:04:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 12:53:04 AM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 8/22/2015 11:26:19 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
At 8/22/2015 9:15:20 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 8/22/2015 4:28:18 PM, Heathcliff wrote:
This is taken from the Evil Bible website and claim no credit for it, but merely presented it.

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."
'Evilbible.com' is 100% atheist propaganda. Read here: http://www.gotquestions.org...

The gotquestions.org website is Christian propaganda.
On the off chance you're not trolling, Got Questions Ministries is not just some random, shadowy website on the Internet like 'Evilbible.com'. 'Evil Bible' likes to twist the Bible to deceive people into thinking that the Bible is bad. And, it's not just Got Questions Ministries that finds 'Evil Bible' to be absolutely false and misleading.

I could just as easily say that GotQuestions is a "random, shadowy website." Second, while evilbible.com does attempt to demonstrate that the Bible is evil, GotQuestions attempts to show how the Bible is good. What is the difference between the two websites that makes you think one is automatically better? Third, who else finds GotQuestions to be misleading? Sources please.
Heathcliff
Posts: 26
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8/23/2015 7:05:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The gotquestions.org website is Christian propaganda.
On the off chance you're not trolling, Got Questions Ministries is not just some random, shadowy website on the Internet like 'Evilbible.com'. 'Evil Bible' likes to twist the Bible to deceive people into thinking that the Bible is bad. And, it's not just Got Questions Ministries that finds 'Evil Bible' to be absolutely false and misleading.

I could just as easily say that GotQuestions is a "random, shadowy website." Second, while evilbible.com does attempt to demonstrate that the Bible is evil, GotQuestions attempts to show how the Bible is good. What is the difference between the two websites that makes you think one is automatically better? Third, who else finds GotQuestions to be misleading? Sources please.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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8/23/2015 11:50:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 7:00:47 AM, Heathcliff wrote:

You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about. The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people. The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright). We also know, once again, it was 1400 BCE. We are dealing with people from 1400 BCE. God could not make them the most pious and loving people in a day. It was not until roughly 1400 years later that Christ came.
The children have nothing to worry about? Wtf? So if God told you to kill some children, that'd be okay right? Since those children go to Heaven you can just kill some heathen pagan kids right?!
I believe you are missing the whole point. God would not demand us to kill anyone because we are under grace, not law. As well, we do not live in 1400 BCE. If you are going to refuse to grasp that these were primitive people, then you are never going to understand anything. It would be the same as me disliking John C. Calhoun because he was a racist. Everyone 1700-1800 was racist for the most part, so it would strange to dislike anyone simply because of the time period in which they existed.

No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.
And your decision has been influenced by God since He gave you more strength and bravery than you originally had, thereby influencing your decision.
It was my decision to pray to God, it was my decision to do what I want. There was no bending of the arm so to speak. Would you also believe it was against free will to hit the gym and build muscles because the new strength might influence your actions?

Some morality is, yes. I do not think we need God to know whether or not to murder for example. However, there were some concepts of morality that were unique to the Israelites. As well, we know that even when Jesus was teaching, there were moral codes implemented that were very unique.
So morality is not dictated by God then? Or at the very least, morality must not be objective.
I am confused at what you mean. God gave us morality, but that does not mean it had to be written down.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,134
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8/23/2015 5:02:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 12:49:52 AM, tstor wrote:
At 8/22/2015 11:56:10 PM, Heathcliff wrote:

Not really. When you take what happened and put it in the historical context in which it happened, it makes a lot of sense.
Please explain to me how God commanding Saul to slaughter all the amalekites (women, children, and animals) in I Samuel 15:1-3 makes a lot of sense in its historical context. Aren't the babies and animals innocent of sin?
You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about.

Accept they would of had no choice in the matter. Do you not see how that would violate their free will?

The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people.

Again, a violation of their free will...

The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright).

Assuming these stories actually happened, we know the same god would later offer salvation to the Gentiles. Did he flip a coin to decide between genocide or salvation and the Amelekites were unlucky or is Yahweh not the unchanging objective being he is claimed to be?

We also know, once again, it was 1400 BCE. We are dealing with people from 1400 BCE. God could not make them the most pious and loving people in a day. It was not until roughly 1400 years later that Christ came.


Not at all. I could pray for guidance for example. Or pray for the courage and strength to do what needs to be done.
Giving you courage and strength interferes with your free will because you have been granted bravery that you normally wouldn't have to do something you normally wouldn't do, thereby causing you to do something you wouldn't do without God's help.
No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.

Except you having courage could affect other individual's free will. For instance, you asked for courage to proclaim the Gospel's to unbelievers. You were presumably unable to do so without God's help, so any non- believers who are swayed by your appeals are being directly affected by God.

God did not change, humans did. In the times of Moses, about 1400 BCE, God was dealing with more 'primitive people'. Not biologically, but mentally. They had just escaped Egyptian bondage after being there for roughly 400 years. They went from being dependent on Egyptians to being independent. They were naive and vulnerable. It makes sense that there would be harsh laws and violent things. Everything during 1400 BCE was harsh and violent.
So morality is based upon human intellect, thereby suggesting that morality is really a human construct and "God" has nothing to do with it.
Some morality is, yes. I do not think we need God to know whether or not to murder for example. However, there were some concepts of morality that were unique to the Israelites. As well, we know that even when Jesus was teaching, there were moral codes implemented that were very unique.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
tstor
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8/23/2015 5:23:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 5:02:46 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about.

Accept they would of had no choice in the matter. Do you not see how that would violate their free will?
No. I don't think most people have a choice when they die. My grandfather died of cancer, does that mean he lacked free will?

The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people.

Again, a violation of their free will...
How so?

The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright).

Assuming these stories actually happened, we know the same god would later offer salvation to the Gentiles. Did he flip a coin to decide between genocide or salvation and the Amelekites were unlucky or is Yahweh not the unchanging objective being he is claimed to be?
Neither. God, once again, was dealing with people from 1400 BCE. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? No one in 1400 BCE was really any different than the Hebrews.

No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.

Except you having courage could affect other individual's free will. For instance, you asked for courage to proclaim the Gospel's to unbelievers. You were presumably unable to do so without God's help, so any non- believers who are swayed by your appeals are being directly affected by God.
I made the decision to preach the gospel. I made the decision to request for courage. I also made the decision to carry out the preaching of the gospel with the new found courage. None of this violates my free will.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
DanneJeRusse
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8/23/2015 5:52:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 5:23:20 PM, tstor wrote:
I made the decision to preach the gospel. I made the decision to request for courage. I also made the decision to carry out the preaching of the gospel with the new found courage. None of this violates my free will.

Perhaps, but it does violate the freedom from religion we should be receiving.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
tstor
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8/23/2015 5:53:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 5:52:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Perhaps, but it does violate the freedom from religion we should be receiving.
How so?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
DanneJeRusse
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8/23/2015 6:06:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 5:53:34 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/23/2015 5:52:06 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Perhaps, but it does violate the freedom from religion we should be receiving.
How so?

Because we don't want to hear your preaching and have the right not to hear it. Simple, really.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
tstor
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8/23/2015 6:06:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 6:06:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Because we don't want to hear your preaching and have the right not to hear it. Simple, really.
Then don't listen. I also have the right to speak about the gospel freely, whether you enjoy it or not.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
DanneJeRusse
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8/23/2015 6:23:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 6:06:51 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/23/2015 6:06:14 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Because we don't want to hear your preaching and have the right not to hear it. Simple, really.
Then don't listen. I also have the right to speak about the gospel freely, whether you enjoy it or not.

You don't understand, I don't want to hear it in the first place, it's not about me not listening, it's about you keeping your gospel behind closed doors where it belongs, where you can talk freely about to your hearts content.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,134
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8/23/2015 6:52:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 5:23:20 PM, tstor wrote:
At 8/23/2015 5:02:46 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

You can't conquer a land without war, that has always been the case. If the children were sinless, then they have nothing to worry about.

Accept they would of had no choice in the matter. Do you not see how that would violate their free will?
No. I don't think most people have a choice when they die. My grandfather died of cancer, does that mean he lacked free will?

That has nothing to do with the issue I am raising. The children would have been cheated out of the opportunity to freely choose their belief.

The women and men were not sinless and were obviously a wicked people. It is recorded that they were indeed very wicked people.

Again, a violation of their free will...
How so?

Free will means being able to choose actions freely without the intervention of God. The story tells us that God commanded their deaths, and that would certainly be interventional.

The Jews did not believe in harsh slavery, so they did not capture the people. They also did not believe that others could convert to their faith (birthright).

Assuming these stories actually happened, we know the same god would later offer salvation to the Gentiles. Did he flip a coin to decide between genocide or salvation and the Amelekites were unlucky or is Yahweh not the unchanging objective being he is claimed to be?
Neither. God, once again, was dealing with people from 1400 BCE. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? No one in 1400 BCE was really any different than the Hebrews.

No, it is not changing free will. It is still my decision to do something or not.

Except you having courage could affect other individual's free will. For instance, you asked for courage to proclaim the Gospel's to unbelievers. You were presumably unable to do so without God's help, so any non- believers who are swayed by your appeals are being directly affected by God.
I made the decision to preach the gospel. I made the decision to request for courage. I also made the decision to carry out the preaching of the gospel with the new found courage. None of this violates my free will.

Any outcome your decision yields is the result of your helper as much as you. Your helper is God and that means God is directly intervening in the lives of others which is a violation of their free will...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
tstor
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8/23/2015 8:55:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 6:23:30 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

You don't understand, I don't want to hear it in the first place, it's not about me not listening, it's about you keeping your gospel behind closed doors where it belongs, where you can talk freely about to your hearts content.
I guess you are not familiar with the laws. I can go to any public area I want and scream the gospels at the top of my lungs.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
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8/23/2015 8:59:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/23/2015 6:52:45 PM, Skepticalone wrote:

No. I don't think most people have a choice when they die. My grandfather died of cancer, does that mean he lacked free will?

That has nothing to do with the issue I am raising. The children would have been cheated out of the opportunity to freely choose their belief.
Okay, so when an infant dies today in a hospital, does that mean they were cheated out of free will?

Again, a violation of their free will...
How so?

Free will means being able to choose actions freely without the intervention of God. The story tells us that God commanded their deaths, and that would certainly be interventional.
I think that you are adding to the idea of free will. Free will is me being able to decide what I want to eat for dinner. God was extremely intervening in the Old Testament, that does not change the fact that you or I have free will.

I made the decision to preach the gospel. I made the decision to request for courage. I also made the decision to carry out the preaching of the gospel with the new found courage. None of this violates my free will.

Any outcome your decision yields is the result of your helper as much as you. Your helper is God and that means God is directly intervening in the lives of others which is a violation of their free will...
No it is not. I fail to see how you are coming to that conclusion. God intervening has no baring on free will. If God made me change my mind, then that would be a violation.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)