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Music Is Halal in Islam

Fatihah
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8/29/2015 12:56:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The argument that Music is haram stems from a hadith found in Bukhari which says:

"From among my followers there will be people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful".

This would lead us to believe that all music is haram. Yet we also read in Bukhari the following:

Narrated Aisha: "Abu Bakr came to my hourse while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah"s Apostle!" It happened on the Id day and Allah"s Apostle said "O Abu Bakr! There is an Id for every nation and this is our Id".


Narrated Urwa on the authority of Aisha: On the days of Mina, Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the duff and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, "Leave them, for these days are the days of Id and the days of Mina. "

So some scholars (not the Prophet) have interpreted that musical instruments are haram because of the hadith that says that the use of musical instruments are illegal. Yet we find that the duff is being used in the presence of the Prophet as music. So there is a contradiction. To address this contradiction, scholars say the duff was allowed because it was not a musical instrument. Others say it is allowed but only during Islamic events, such as the Id.

None of these answers are accurate because the Prophet just stated in one narration that musical instruments are haram. How can you now say the duff is allowed or permissible only in Islamic festivities? That is a contradiction. Additionally, there is also no logical basis to ban all instruments except the duff or drum.

We can also dig further and see that the authenticity of this hadith in Bukhari is not reliable. This does not mean that the collection of hadiths in Bukhari are not the most reliable but as we will see, Bukhari himself did not include this hadith in his authentic collection. Bukhari would include a title for an authentic hadith, then under it lists the authentic hadith. The titles would include some of his fiqh and also another hadith that was not on the same level as his authentic hadith. This was done to bring clarification to the authentic hadiths listed below it. So the hadith about music was a title by Bukhari and he did not put it in his authentic collection. According to Imam al-Muhallab, the reason is because the narrator Hisham was not sure of the name of the companion. Therefore, Bukhari did not include it. Yet some scholars found another connected chain for this type of hadith according to Ibn Hajr. Therefore, they deemed that the hadith is authentic themselves, but Bukhari never did so. Yet this does not resolve the issue because some prominent scholars still have a problem with Hisham as a reliable narrator. They include Imam al-Thahabi, Imam Ahmad, and Abu Dawud. Ibn Hazm and other scholars go further and says that all hadith that claim that singing is haram are false and agrees that singing is permissible as long as it does not include indecency.

So we have scholastic evidence that the hadith in Bukhari is not authentic and there is no logical rebuttal to the argument to show otherwise. We also see that even if we accept the hadith, it contradicts other hadith when trying to enforce that musical instruments are haram, and any reason one can make to accept only the duff or certain instruments are halal. Therefore those who rely on the authority of the hadith in Bukhari as proof that music or musical instruments are haram have no logical basis since the evidence that the hadith is authentic or reliable is not sound. The correct position is that Music is halal, as long as it does not contain indecency.

And Allah knows best.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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8/29/2015 1:00:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:56:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The argument that Music is haram stems from a hadith found in Bukhari which says:

"From among my followers there will be people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful".

This would lead us to believe that all music is haram. Yet we also read in Bukhari the following:

Narrated Aisha: "Abu Bakr came to my hourse while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah"s Apostle!" It happened on the Id day and Allah"s Apostle said "O Abu Bakr! There is an Id for every nation and this is our Id".


Narrated Urwa on the authority of Aisha: On the days of Mina, Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the duff and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, "Leave them, for these days are the days of Id and the days of Mina. "

So some scholars (not the Prophet) have interpreted that musical instruments are haram because of the hadith that says that the use of musical instruments are illegal. Yet we find that the duff is being used in the presence of the Prophet as music. So there is a contradiction. To address this contradiction, scholars say the duff was allowed because it was not a musical instrument. Others say it is allowed but only during Islamic events, such as the Id.

None of these answers are accurate because the Prophet just stated in one narration that musical instruments are haram. How can you now say the duff is allowed or permissible only in Islamic festivities? That is a contradiction. Additionally, there is also no logical basis to ban all instruments except the duff or drum.

We can also dig further and see that the authenticity of this hadith in Bukhari is not reliable. This does not mean that the collection of hadiths in Bukhari are not the most reliable but as we will see, Bukhari himself did not include this hadith in his authentic collection. Bukhari would include a title for an authentic hadith, then under it lists the authentic hadith. The titles would include some of his fiqh and also another hadith that was not on the same level as his authentic hadith. This was done to bring clarification to the authentic hadiths listed below it. So the hadith about music was a title by Bukhari and he did not put it in his authentic collection. According to Imam al-Muhallab, the reason is because the narrator Hisham was not sure of the name of the companion. Therefore, Bukhari did not include it. Yet some scholars found another connected chain for this type of hadith according to Ibn Hajr. Therefore, they deemed that the hadith is authentic themselves, but Bukhari never did so. Yet this does not resolve the issue because some prominent scholars still have a problem with Hisham as a reliable narrator. They include Imam al-Thahabi, Imam Ahmad, and Abu Dawud. Ibn Hazm and other scholars go further and says that all hadith that claim that singing is haram are false and agrees that singing is permissible as long as it does not include indecency.

So we have scholastic evidence that the hadith in Bukhari is not authentic and there is no logical rebuttal to the argument to show otherwise. We also see that even if we accept the hadith, it contradicts other hadith when trying to enforce that musical instruments are haram, and any reason one can make to accept only the duff or certain instruments are halal. Therefore those who rely on the authority of the hadith in Bukhari as proof that music or musical instruments are haram have no logical basis since the evidence that the hadith is authentic or reliable is not sound. The correct position is that Music is halal, as long as it does not contain indecency.

And Allah knows best.

- All Hail Fatihah!
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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8/29/2015 1:12:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 1:00:04 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 8/29/2015 12:56:29 PM, Fatihah wrote:
The argument that Music is haram stems from a hadith found in Bukhari which says:

"From among my followers there will be people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful".

This would lead us to believe that all music is haram. Yet we also read in Bukhari the following:

Narrated Aisha: "Abu Bakr came to my hourse while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah"s Apostle!" It happened on the Id day and Allah"s Apostle said "O Abu Bakr! There is an Id for every nation and this is our Id".


Narrated Urwa on the authority of Aisha: On the days of Mina, Abu Bakr came to her while two young girls were beating the duff and the Prophet was lying covered with his clothes. Abu Bakr scolded them and the Prophet uncovered his face and said to Abu Bakr, "Leave them, for these days are the days of Id and the days of Mina. "

So some scholars (not the Prophet) have interpreted that musical instruments are haram because of the hadith that says that the use of musical instruments are illegal. Yet we find that the duff is being used in the presence of the Prophet as music. So there is a contradiction. To address this contradiction, scholars say the duff was allowed because it was not a musical instrument. Others say it is allowed but only during Islamic events, such as the Id.

None of these answers are accurate because the Prophet just stated in one narration that musical instruments are haram. How can you now say the duff is allowed or permissible only in Islamic festivities? That is a contradiction. Additionally, there is also no logical basis to ban all instruments except the duff or drum.

We can also dig further and see that the authenticity of this hadith in Bukhari is not reliable. This does not mean that the collection of hadiths in Bukhari are not the most reliable but as we will see, Bukhari himself did not include this hadith in his authentic collection. Bukhari would include a title for an authentic hadith, then under it lists the authentic hadith. The titles would include some of his fiqh and also another hadith that was not on the same level as his authentic hadith. This was done to bring clarification to the authentic hadiths listed below it. So the hadith about music was a title by Bukhari and he did not put it in his authentic collection. According to Imam al-Muhallab, the reason is because the narrator Hisham was not sure of the name of the companion. Therefore, Bukhari did not include it. Yet some scholars found another connected chain for this type of hadith according to Ibn Hajr. Therefore, they deemed that the hadith is authentic themselves, but Bukhari never did so. Yet this does not resolve the issue because some prominent scholars still have a problem with Hisham as a reliable narrator. They include Imam al-Thahabi, Imam Ahmad, and Abu Dawud. Ibn Hazm and other scholars go further and says that all hadith that claim that singing is haram are false and agrees that singing is permissible as long as it does not include indecency.

So we have scholastic evidence that the hadith in Bukhari is not authentic and there is no logical rebuttal to the argument to show otherwise. We also see that even if we accept the hadith, it contradicts other hadith when trying to enforce that musical instruments are haram, and any reason one can make to accept only the duff or certain instruments are halal. Therefore those who rely on the authority of the hadith in Bukhari as proof that music or musical instruments are haram have no logical basis since the evidence that the hadith is authentic or reliable is not sound. The correct position is that Music is halal, as long as it does not contain indecency.

And Allah knows best.

- All Hail Fatihah!

LOL!!!!!!!
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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8/29/2015 2:17:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

Response: I just presented you with evidence, none of which you refuted. So according to your own failed response, my evidence is 100% true.

Brother, until you learn to think on your own and stop copy and paste what others say and blindly following them, you will always be in doubt. I blindly follow know one. For to do so is not Islam or logical. So I don't have such an issue.
skinker
Posts: 345
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8/29/2015 2:18:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That you Muhammadan clowns even have to ask each other if the Man God permits humans making music just shows how absurd totalitarian religious dictatorship is to human behavior and human advantage.

All ideologies that attempt to impose puritanical restrictions on human behavior are the works of males trying to play god with their societies. All puritanical ideologies fail because they are not ever true to human life such as banning music, one of humanity's greatest achievements. But then people who blow up other people's religious works in religious warfare are not educated enough to understand why cultural variety is essential to any society's well being. It is the same principle found in any healthy eco-system. Monocultures are death to eco-systems and monotheistic repression has been death to Muhammadan societies now lagging at the tail end of human knowledge acquisition by deliberately choosing 7th Century Arab desert ideas over all the advances in human knowledge acquired since Muhammad's time.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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8/29/2015 2:22:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:17:53 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

Response: I just presented you with evidence, none of which you refuted. So according to your own failed response, my evidence is 100% true.

Brother, until you learn to think on your own and stop copy and paste what others say and blindly following them, you will always be in doubt. I blindly follow know one. For to do so is not Islam or logical. So I don't have such an issue.

do whatver you want....
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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8/29/2015 2:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

That makes no sense, the idea is to argue and debate, so that perhaps you might learn something and be sure about it. While I don't agree on a various topics with Fatihah, at the very least, we don't try to shut him down like Yassine and you.

So instead, why don't you alleged Muslim scholars try to solve this issue, perhaps Fatihah wishes to join a classic rock dance band so he can enjoy himself and make other people happy. Or, is making other people happy Halal, as well?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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8/29/2015 2:55:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:35:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

That makes no sense, the idea is to argue and debate, so that perhaps you might learn something and be sure about it. While I don't agree on a various topics with Fatihah, at the very least, we don't try to shut him down like Yassine and you.

So instead, why don't you alleged Muslim scholars try to solve this issue, perhaps Fatihah wishes to join a classic rock dance band so he can enjoy himself and make other people happy. Or, is making other people happy Halal, as well?

some muslims say that and others the opposite, because there is no absolute answer for this i personally listen to music sometimes lets not be a hypocrite here... but its about irrelevant issues i really dont care its so stupid
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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8/29/2015 3:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 2:55:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:35:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

That makes no sense, the idea is to argue and debate, so that perhaps you might learn something and be sure about it. While I don't agree on a various topics with Fatihah, at the very least, we don't try to shut him down like Yassine and you.

So instead, why don't you alleged Muslim scholars try to solve this issue, perhaps Fatihah wishes to join a classic rock dance band so he can enjoy himself and make other people happy. Or, is making other people happy Halal, as well?

some muslims say that and others the opposite, because there is no absolute answer for this i personally listen to music sometimes lets not be a hypocrite here... but its about irrelevant issues i really dont care its so stupid

I couldn't agree with you more that it's so stupid, I find a great deal of things in religions to be so stupid. And, they are indeed relevant issues because the make good people say and do stupid things.

You say you personally listen to music, has it done you or anyone else any harm? Or, have you actually found enjoyment in music?

It's like that other thread on head coverings for women. If women want or don't want to wear head coverings, they should have that option at any time. I have seen very few women who would wear any kind of head coverings, they would rarely if ever consider it, unless it was raining.

But, these are the kind of "so stupid" issues you believers should be dealing with, so that they no longer remain so stupid.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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8/29/2015 4:01:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 3:13:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:55:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:35:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

That makes no sense, the idea is to argue and debate, so that perhaps you might learn something and be sure about it. While I don't agree on a various topics with Fatihah, at the very least, we don't try to shut him down like Yassine and you.

So instead, why don't you alleged Muslim scholars try to solve this issue, perhaps Fatihah wishes to join a classic rock dance band so he can enjoy himself and make other people happy. Or, is making other people happy Halal, as well?

some muslims say that and others the opposite, because there is no absolute answer for this i personally listen to music sometimes lets not be a hypocrite here... but its about irrelevant issues i really dont care its so stupid

I couldn't agree with you more that it's so stupid, I find a great deal of things in religions to be so stupid. And, they are indeed relevant issues because the make good people say and do stupid things.

You say you personally listen to music, has it done you or anyone else any harm? Or, have you actually found enjoyment in music?

It's like that other thread on head coverings for women. If women want or don't want to wear head coverings, they should have that option at any time. I have seen very few women who would wear any kind of head coverings, they would rarely if ever consider it, unless it was raining.

But, these are the kind of "so stupid" issues you believers should be dealing with, so that they no longer remain so stupid.

oh i feel sorry for my self feeding trollers here...
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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8/29/2015 4:04:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 4:01:21 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 3:13:22 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:55:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:35:56 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:09:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 8/29/2015 2:01:57 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Yes. The evidence is clear that Music is Halal. Notice the difference in substance, logic and reason when we compare my post (the OP), with those who practice taqleed and blindly follow what is told of them with no evidence (post 2 and 3).

A big difference.

An example of how truth exposes and embarrasses the ignorant.

dude you talking like you know its Halal 100%... i also have some issues with poeple saying music is entirely Haram.. i dont getting into it too much im on the position of the grey area... arguing on such issues is waste of time becuse we really dont sure about it...

That makes no sense, the idea is to argue and debate, so that perhaps you might learn something and be sure about it. While I don't agree on a various topics with Fatihah, at the very least, we don't try to shut him down like Yassine and you.

So instead, why don't you alleged Muslim scholars try to solve this issue, perhaps Fatihah wishes to join a classic rock dance band so he can enjoy himself and make other people happy. Or, is making other people happy Halal, as well?

some muslims say that and others the opposite, because there is no absolute answer for this i personally listen to music sometimes lets not be a hypocrite here... but its about irrelevant issues i really dont care its so stupid

I couldn't agree with you more that it's so stupid, I find a great deal of things in religions to be so stupid. And, they are indeed relevant issues because the make good people say and do stupid things.

You say you personally listen to music, has it done you or anyone else any harm? Or, have you actually found enjoyment in music?

It's like that other thread on head coverings for women. If women want or don't want to wear head coverings, they should have that option at any time. I have seen very few women who would wear any kind of head coverings, they would rarely if ever consider it, unless it was raining.

But, these are the kind of "so stupid" issues you believers should be dealing with, so that they no longer remain so stupid.

oh i feel sorry for my self feeding trollers here...

Ah, so you are just here to troll, that's what I thought. You could care less about being a hypocrite or dealing with contradictions in your religion. All you and Yassine manage to accomplish is looking like the "so stupid" Islamic propagandists you clearly are.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
skinker
Posts: 345
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8/29/2015 8:19:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There's not music in Muhammadanism. There's no Spirit recognition. Only recognition of Words in a book and endless arguments about words in a book instead of focus on Spirit of God. Muhammadanism exists because of the failure of desert societies to educate their peoples thus allowing the continuation of ancient religious despotism that in the West was passed beyond to discover democracy and human rights are God's choices while men seeking control and power choose allegiance to laws of men.