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Atheists, what about God intrigues you?

Benshapiro
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8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?
Ramshutu
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8/29/2015 8:03:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

I'm interested in the psychology of delusion. It is clear that human beings are almost hard wired to accept various forms of authority over evidence, and do so very often; as well as often demonstrating their ability to disengage their own critical thinking when it comes to faith and beliefs.

The pure insanity coming from some people here, not just ignorance, blows my mind sometimes. I'm very interested in working out in such cases whether they are deliberately dishonest, or simply do not realize how incoherent their own position is.

I have often been tempted, for example, to leave out parts of an argument, or misrepresent the argument or the evidence; I may add in situations where I know it's going to be complex to explain rather than because I feel I'm wrong. I never act upon it, but I'm interested in whether this feeling is what drives people to be effectively dishonest about evidence, the logical support or another persons argument.
RuvDraba
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8/29/2015 10:33:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most?

Christians are often overtaken by their own zeal, Ben, and in a forum like Religion you should make effort to remember that while many members may be of your faith, most of the world is not.

In that context, religion isn't defined by belief in the Abrahamic god, Ben. It's defined by reverence for and observance of the sacred, the metaphysical and the numinous. That can of course include submission to, invocation of and worship of gods, including the one you worship.

What interests me most about religion is actually not religion but the religious. Religion to me is a psychosocial study.

As for belief in a god -- whether yours or any other -- I have no interest at all.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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8/30/2015 1:39:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like debate and discussion. Topics that are "taboo" or tend to contain bias interest me even more. I also realized how detrimental religion can be and think that I can help fix things (while having fun on the side).
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Otokage
Posts: 2,351
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8/30/2015 2:28:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

Religious thinking irks me and I see religion as a problem, so I like to debate against it. I always like to debate things that I strongly oppose, so being an atheist, religion is perfect. The "grand plan", beginning of the universe, or the plausability of God, are not something I care about that much, since those things are very childish in my point of view. I have already said here on the forum that, when I was a kid, I was a just a bit amazed that children would believe in something like Gods, and when I grew up and I was like 12, I really believed God was something only children believed in (you know, like Santa, lol). I was genuinely surprised when I discovered that adult people also believed in God. I find the whole concept so... childish.
Skepticalone
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8/30/2015 3:00:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

I'm not interested in God or gods, Ben. I am interested in how believers justify belief in god. It is not a rational belief, but I know believers generally approach other areas of their lives rationally. So I suppose it is a fascination with cognitive dissonance associated with this belief.

Of course, I am also here to examine my position, help others examine theirs (where I can), and fight against ID in schools and religion in government.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
TBR
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8/30/2015 3:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

Religion is a constant interference in my life. Its like debating war. My disdain for it coupled with its presence make it an important topic.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.
satan_killer
Posts: 10
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8/30/2015 3:46:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God. : :

God's Servant David sounds very delusional to atheists and theists who worship the beast.
dee-em
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8/30/2015 5:48:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Sure they did but at a time when everyone was indoctrinated into religion from birth and it was socially unacceptable (to the point of ostracism and even violence) to be skeptical about the teachings of the church. Great minds are not immune to brainwashing. You are also likely referring to a pre-Darwin world where there was no real scientific alternative to creationism. The trend is clear. The better educated people are about the natural world, and the better their standard of living, the less religious they become. The US is the only real exception to this rule, but even there the trend is evident, just much slower.
Ramshutu
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8/30/2015 9:49:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Some of the greatest minds in the world lived before modern science has revealed what it has revealed. Some of the greatest minds were irrational when it came to belief': even newton, which why it interests me more.

I would also say you are right it's not a delusion, the definition of delusion, and "religious faith" are separated only by how many people believe it.

But the whole concept of religious faith in this regard is indeed irrational when firmly held. Weak faith not so much, but that's not really
Fkkize
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8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Fkkize
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8/30/2015 10:28:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Which I desperately need, since apparently I cannot even write a correct sentence.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
FaustianJustice
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8/30/2015 10:34:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Is creating matter and energy from void or force of will irrational? Then "God" is irrational. It tickles me that some how creating such things as existence from nothing is considered just fine for God, but apparently, Him creating a stone He can't lift or a square triangle some how is the line where His power must end. THAT is what I find interesting about "God", what people say He can and can't do, His motives, His 'morality'. Its none of the above, people are just filling in the blanks of their own understanding as to what could be plausible, possible, or impossible despite that line being so blurred it might not even exist.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Otokage
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8/30/2015 10:59:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

I think it is both delusional and irrational. I mean, the faithful have no evidence whatsoever of the existence of God, yet they convince themselves such a thing exists. This is of course self-delusion, how could it not be? The belief in God it is also irrational as believing in angels, heaven, allmighty spirits, magic, and so on, collides with the reasonable mind. This doesn't mean religious people are incapable of being good scientists, engeneers, etc. They are, even while they are skipping a basic principle for the scientific mind: skepticism.
dee-em
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8/30/2015 12:57:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 10:28:38 AM, Fkkize wrote:
Which I desperately need, since apparently I cannot even write a correct sentence.

Lol.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:05:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:48:29 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Sure they did but at a time when everyone was indoctrinated into religion from birth and it was socially unacceptable (to the point of ostracism and even violence) to be skeptical about the teachings of the church. Great minds are not immune to brainwashing. You are also likely referring to a pre-Darwin world where there was no real scientific alternative to creationism. The trend is clear. The better educated people are about the natural world, and the better their standard of living, the less religious they become. The US is the only real exception to this rule, but even there the trend is evident, just much slower.

Maybe, maybe not. There's no way for us to know who would've believed what without societal pressures. The church did have an obscene amount of power though (at least in Midieval England) and I'm sure this had an effect. Evolution and creationism aren't mutually exclusive, and the arguments for God's existence during the time wouldn't have been affected by it (like Aquina's five ways.) Religiosity isn't a requirement for belief in God, personally I'm irreligious but believe in God. I guess it depends on if you were making a point solely about religiosity or belief in God.
missmedic
Posts: 388
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8/30/2015 4:05:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

It is not the god that intrigues me, it is the beliefs of the believers that intrigues me. Believers believe so strongly and with such certainty, in something that they do not have a clear definition of. Also it seems that they do not question there beliefs and pretend to know things no one can know. God belief prays on the natural ignorance, stupidity, superstition, credulity and intellectual sloth of mankind.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:14:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 9:49:41 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Some of the greatest minds in the world lived before modern science has revealed what it has revealed. Some of the greatest minds were irrational when it came to belief': even newton, which why it interests me more.

This makes the assumption that belief in God depends on how much explanatory power It has to explain the scientifically unexplained. Explain why Newton was irrational when it came to his belief, I'm very curious.

I would also say you are right it's not a delusion, the definition of delusion, and "religious faith" are separated only by how many people believe it.

Some religious doctrine would be irrational to believe, but some of it isn't. That's up to the individual as to what particular beliefs he adheres to within his religion. Just by being religious doesn't mean they're delusional/irrational. You can have a perfectly rational person take a non-literal interpretation or unorthodox viewpoint regarding religious doctrine.

But the whole concept of religious faith in this regard is indeed irrational when firmly held. Weak faith not so much, but that's not really
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:22:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.

Really? Chew on this one. It's my favorite and probably the most self-evident.

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3. Therefore, God exists.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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8/30/2015 4:26:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:22:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.

Really? Chew on this one. It's my favorite and probably the most self-evident.

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
Wrong. This presupposes DCT and the unsoundness of the Euthyphro. Further, there is no problem with Godless, objective values.

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.
Yes.

3. Therefore, God exists.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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8/30/2015 4:26:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

I'm not sure what you mean, God is not present here or anywhere else for which to have any interest. There is nothing more to religion than that of the claims of believers, whether it be about their gods, their magical kingdoms, their boogieman demons, spiritual realms, whatever, it's all about the claims being made. And, it is these claims coupled with the indoctrinated mindset of folks that are of interest because that is where we observe the conflict, the hatred, the bigotry and all the other things that are and have been damaging people and societies for centuries.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings?

Those are just claims of believers, they have nothing to do with gods, they're merely representations of the ignorance and barbarity of earlier civilizations, they have no bearing on reality whatsoever.

A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
missmedic
Posts: 388
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8/30/2015 4:33:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:22:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.

Really? Chew on this one. It's my favorite and probably the most self-evident.

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3. Therefore, God exists.
Chew on this one.
Dr. Craig defines objective moral values like this:
To say that there are objective moral values is to say that something is right or wrong independently of whether anybody believes it to be so.
Since every example of objective moral values Dr. Craig uses (Nazis, murder, rape, torturing babies for fun, etc. ") is in agreement with what everyone believes, I submit that they are not independent from human belief.

1. If God does not exist, values and duties independent from what anyone believes do not exist.
2. Values and duties are not independent from what anyone believes. They exist by consensus of belief.
3. Therefore, the existence of values and duties has no bearing on the existence of God.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:34:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 10:34:37 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

Is creating matter and energy from void or force of will irrational? Then "God" is irrational.

What exactly would be considered a "rational" beginning for the creation of matter and energy? Mathematics has revealed that all matter, space, and time began from an infinite state of zero-dimensionality. What options have better explanatory power other than a transcendent cause?

It tickles me that some how creating such things as existence from nothing is considered just fine for God, but apparently, Him creating a stone He can't lift or a square triangle some how is the line where His power must end. THAT is what I find interesting about "God", what people say He can and can't do, His motives, His 'morality'. Its none of the above, people are just filling in the blanks of their own understanding as to what could be plausible, possible, or impossible despite that line being so blurred it might not even exist.

Wouldn't it depend on how well they explained it and why they arrived at those conclusions?
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:39:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 10:59:31 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:31:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
It sounds like most of you are interested in the psychological aspect of religious belief. That's a fair point.

I think it's too far to label belief in God as "delusional" or "irrational" (although some believers are). Some of the greatest minds to ever walk the earth believed in God.

I think it is both delusional and irrational. I mean, the faithful have no evidence whatsoever of the existence of God, yet they convince themselves such a thing exists. This is of course self-delusion, how could it not be? The belief in God it is also irrational as believing in angels, heaven, allmighty spirits, magic, and so on, collides with the reasonable mind. This doesn't mean religious people are incapable of being good scientists, engeneers, etc. They are, even while they are skipping a basic principle for the scientific mind: skepticism.

Do you consider only empirical evidence? If so, where is your evidence of numbers?

Do you consider logical arguments as evidence? If not, why have so many discoveries about the natural world been made using them?

If you don't believe that there are any logical arguments for God's existence I have a handful I can give you.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:43:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:05:16 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

It is not the god that intrigues me, it is the beliefs of the believers that intrigues me. Believers believe so strongly and with such certainty, in something that they do not have a clear definition of. Also it seems that they do not question there beliefs and pretend to know things no one can know. God belief prays on the natural ignorance, stupidity, superstition, credulity and intellectual sloth of mankind.

That's a broad generalization, many are very skeptical of their beliefs. Many, many intelligent people (Nobel prize winners especially) currently believe in God.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:46:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:26:34 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/30/2015 4:22:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.

Really? Chew on this one. It's my favorite and probably the most self-evident.

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
Wrong. This presupposes DCT and the unsoundness of the Euthyphro. Further, there is no problem with Godless, objective values.

I'd like to hear you explain. It's insufficient to provide labels for alternative theories as a basis for rejecting the argument. I see an inescapable problem for Godless, objective moral values. Its validity is optional.

2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.
Yes.

3. Therefore, God exists.
Benshapiro
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8/30/2015 4:48:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:26:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

I'm not sure what you mean, God is not present here or anywhere else for which to have any interest. There is nothing more to religion than that of the claims of believers, whether it be about their gods, their magical kingdoms, their boogieman demons, spiritual realms, whatever, it's all about the claims being made. And, it is these claims coupled with the indoctrinated mindset of folks that are of interest because that is where we observe the conflict, the hatred, the bigotry and all the other things that are and have been damaging people and societies for centuries.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings?

Those are just claims of believers, they have nothing to do with gods, they're merely representations of the ignorance and barbarity of earlier civilizations, they have no bearing on reality whatsoever.

A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

So what interests you in these types of discussions?
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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8/30/2015 4:49:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:43:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 4:05:16 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

It is not the god that intrigues me, it is the beliefs of the believers that intrigues me. Believers believe so strongly and with such certainty, in something that they do not have a clear definition of. Also it seems that they do not question there beliefs and pretend to know things no one can know. God belief prays on the natural ignorance, stupidity, superstition, credulity and intellectual sloth of mankind.

That's a broad generalization, many are very skeptical of their beliefs. Many, many intelligent people (Nobel prize winners especially) currently believe in God.
Which disciplines? It's hard to imagine that many natural scientists are among them. Well, because scientists tend to not believe in God.
Anyway, there is no Nobel prize for philosophers, but that's where the question belongs. And if you ask them, well, the vast majority of them doesn't believe, either.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Fkkize
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8/30/2015 4:55:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:46:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 4:26:34 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/30/2015 4:22:47 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/30/2015 10:25:39 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 8/29/2015 7:37:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
You're spending time here in the religion forum discussing it, so God is an obvious point of interest despite your lack of belief.

So, what about God intrigues you the most? The notion that there's a grand plan in all of this? An explanation for our beginnings? A personal mission to enlighten and debunk religious misconceptions? To test the waters to see if God plausibly exists?

What me intrigues me the most is that the arguments for the existence of God are so bad that even I can feel smart for once.

Really? Chew on this one. It's my favorite and probably the most self-evident.

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
Wrong. This presupposes DCT and the unsoundness of the Euthyphro. Further, there is no problem with Godless, objective values.

I'd like to hear you explain. It's insufficient to provide labels for alternative theories as a basis for rejecting the argument.
It is similarly insufficient to throw an argument in the room without any justification.

I see an inescapable problem for Godless, objective moral values. Its validity is optional.
If your issue with Godless, objective values is that they are not objective, then that's nonsense. You see a problem with the possibility of values being objective not with objective values being objective. It just so happens that a related thread of mine is currently the Bi-Weekly topic in the philosophy forum.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic