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Is a Creator Hard to Fathom?

Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
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8/30/2015 8:27:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 7:45:30 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Of the universe or of life?

Both
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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8/30/2015 9:26:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?

You mean a deliberate and invested creator of humanity? Or do you mean a creator of the universe, which may have created humanity unwittingly and/or disinterestedly?

There's the first problem, Sooner. Creation does not imply that a Creator is entitled to be, or even seeks to be a worshiped deity of its creation. And if it's not, the hypothesis of creation is theologically irrelevant, while if a deity is claimed, you need to offer a coherent, evidentiary account for much more than creation itself.

The second problem relates to ensuring that the account of means and motive are themselves coherent. We know that humanity evolved on the obscure and short-lived little planet of an obscure and short-lived little sun, as one of several intelligent, tool-using hominids, all of its primate ancestors being extinct. So created why, why at this time, why in this place, why in this form, and why in that way?

Again, you can scratch intelligence, wisdom and compassion from any coherent account of place, time, and method. So are you arguing for a stupid creator, a foolish one, or a disinterested one? And regardless, how do you derive godhood from that?

At a stretch, such a creation account might give you Deism (if as a Deist you're happy with a stupid, foolish or disinterested creation.) It certainly doesn't give you theism.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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8/30/2015 10:49:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?

I think what's hard to fathom for most relatively intelligent people is the idea of a creator-being that resembles us in general character and personality. Not only is it difficult to believe that reality would be that crazy, but who in their right mind would want to believe it?

That there might be some sort of creative intent at the heart/center/source of existence isn't that hard to accept, but it's pretty impossible for us to imagine what that might be "like". Because it's probably not "like" anything we know.
Serato
Posts: 743
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8/30/2015 11:30:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's not hard to fathom humanity as having an intelligent design coming from an external Creator when all things become considered. It seems with the major religions and with lessor known ones, that a commonality exists to all; it appears they all suggest our origins comes from the stars. It's for this very reason in my opinion, that an innate curiosity motivates us to explore the cosmos with aspirations of finding other intelligent forms of life. It appears we are as lost children searching vigorously for a reunition with their parents.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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8/30/2015 11:47:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?

Creation is a temporal act. Nothing can be said to have been created unless there was a state where it wasn't and then a following state where it was. Before one can entertain the notion of a creator outside of the universe, they have to first address this thorny problem of time (which as far as we know is part of the fabric of our universe). I have never seen an honest, reasoned attempt by a theist to overcome this objection to a creator god.
mjplatt
Posts: 25
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8/30/2015 11:50:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?

An alien race is rather far fetched but not impossible. They would be living, sentient beings, maybe even like us in some ways, if they provided the genetic material. Panspermia is a theory that life was spread to earth via a comet or some such body (although in microbe form).
That is a far cry from postualting a divine being without physical form, living outside time and space. You are merely trying to solve one mystery by postulating an even greater one. That provides no answers at all. There is nothing in the natural world that indicates the need for an intelligent creator.
mjplatt
Posts: 25
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8/30/2015 11:56:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 11:30:58 PM, Serato wrote:
It's not hard to fathom humanity as having an intelligent design coming from an external Creator when all things become considered. It seems with the major religions and with lessor known ones, that a commonality exists to all; it appears they all suggest our origins comes from the stars. It's for this very reason in my opinion, that an innate curiosity motivates us to explore the cosmos with aspirations of finding other intelligent forms of life. It appears we are as lost children searching vigorously for a reunition with their parents.

I have read a number of creation myths and don't remember any of them mentioning the stars. But in another way, you are right. The heavier elements are manufactured in the stars through fusion and then spread through the universe. Wthout those meavier elements, we would not exist.
the_titan
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8/31/2015 2:09:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not? : :

God is an alien to his creation. That's why the inhabitants of this earth don't know him.
Serato
Posts: 743
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8/31/2015 5:35:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 11:56:17 PM, mjplatt wrote:
At 8/30/2015 11:30:58 PM, Serato wrote:
It's not hard to fathom humanity as having an intelligent design coming from an external Creator when all things become considered. It seems with the major religions and with lessor known ones, that a commonality exists to all; it appears they all suggest our origins comes from the stars. It's for this very reason in my opinion, that an innate curiosity motivates us to explore the cosmos with aspirations of finding other intelligent forms of life. It appears we are as lost children searching vigorously for a reunition with their parents.

I have read a number of creation myths and don't remember any of them mentioning the stars. But in another way, you are right. The heavier elements are manufactured in the stars through fusion and then spread through the universe. Wthout those meavier elements, we would not exist.

No that's not what I was saying. In fact it's best if I not say too much at one time because it has been a repetitive experience of mine that all Internet Atheists possess severe reading comprehension skills. But here's something for consideration; there exists an engraving on one of the Egyptian pyramids that precisely illustrate the positioning of all planets found within our solar system, and as remarkable as that is when considering its confirmation came only recently, what's even more astounding is the extra planet included with an unusual orbit that brings its presence into proximity with the other nine planets, and it circles around only once per 3500yrs. And if I recall, it's supposed to be back in town in 2029, I think.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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8/31/2015 10:39:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 5:54:35 PM, Sooner wrote:
Human beings create virtual reality worlds. The idea of advanced aliens with great abilities compared to ours is not really deemed impossible or "childish". Is the concept of us having a creator hard to fathom? Why or why not?

No it isn't hard to understand or believe, at least to those of us with the eyes to see the evidence, which is all around us in the very fabric of his creation, even in our own bodies.

Not all want to see it however. Some cling to fanciful theories, like Evolution, which cling to much of the same evidence that supports Creation, but interprets it in the way it's adherents want it to be.

Why?

As far as I can tell there seem to be three reasons:

1: Some are scared stiff of the thought of a power much greater than they can imagination, held by an almost infinitely greater intelligence.

2: Some humans like to think they are more intelligent than us plebs, and in fact probably are more intelligent than most of us, but to their own detriment.

3: Some humans suffer from what is in effect a form of hero worship, treating scientists as if they are almost infallible.

There may be other reasons as well, which I have not spotted or not understood, not that I really understand those three.