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An Atheistic World *Hypothetical*

Chaosism
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9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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9/1/2015 1:23:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of : religious beliefs?

To me, the idea of being religious doesn't necessarily require a deity. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, for example . . . atheism. To be religious simply requires a strict adherence to a set of principles. I don't think there has ever been a time when there wasn't religion nor will there ever be. But for fun, and hypothetically . . . it would look remarkable like this . . .

https://www.youtube.com...
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 1:39:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:23:38 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of : religious beliefs?

To me, the idea of being religious doesn't necessarily require a deity. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, for example . . . atheism. To be religious simply requires a strict adherence to a set of principles. I don't think there has ever been a time when there wasn't religion nor will there ever be. But for fun, and hypothetically . . . it would look remarkable like this . . .

https://www.youtube.com...

I probably should have clarified...

Religion : The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. [Oxford]

Atheism : Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [Oxford]
dhardage
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9/1/2015 1:40:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

It would be further advanced technologically and sociologically since the retarding effects of religious control of major parts of the world would not have occurred. The Arab world would most likely be the center of this world since that is where our numeral system, stellar navigation, and a whole lot of other innovations originated. There would be less nationalism and perhaps a single world government since there would be no "godless infidels" or "godless communists" or "heathens" to rail against. All in all, a world run by reason and empathy rather than primitive superstition.
Mobutu
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9/1/2015 1:50:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I predict the world will be a lot stupider and worse off. The schooling system would probably never have started up due to the lack of religious base for it to build itself on. There would be no religion for the masses to unify the masses so civilization could expand rapidly with a unifying force. There would be no church for scientists, pioneers, innovators and artists to gain patronage from to expand the field. Morality and charity created by the faithful wouldn't spring up due to religion not existing. Astronomy would fail to benefit from the works of priests to study the skies. Many works of art would simply not exist, The Notre Dame, The pyramids and sphinx, the Hindu temple, the muslim mosque all because religion was not around.
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 1:55:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:40:26 PM, dhardage wrote:

It would be further advanced technologically and sociologically since the retarding effects of religious control of major parts of the world would not have occurred. The Arab world would most likely be the center of this world since that is where our numeral system, stellar navigation, and a whole lot of other innovations originated. There would be less nationalism and perhaps a single world government since there would be no "godless infidels" or "godless communists" or "heathens" to rail against. All in all, a world run by reason and empathy rather than primitive superstition.

I think you are giving humans too much credit; humans are not innately rational and logical, so the populace would still fall victim to in-group/out-group psychology (https://www.psychologytoday.com...). We would still find plenty of reasons to geographically (or otherwise arbitrarily) separate ourselves and wage violence. Not having religious belief does not make one into a rational person.
JJ50
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9/1/2015 1:58:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

It certainly wouldn't be any worse off!
dhardage
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9/1/2015 2:02:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:55:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:40:26 PM, dhardage wrote:

It would be further advanced technologically and sociologically since the retarding effects of religious control of major parts of the world would not have occurred. The Arab world would most likely be the center of this world since that is where our numeral system, stellar navigation, and a whole lot of other innovations originated. There would be less nationalism and perhaps a single world government since there would be no "godless infidels" or "godless communists" or "heathens" to rail against. All in all, a world run by reason and empathy rather than primitive superstition.

I think you are giving humans too much credit; humans are not innately rational and logical, so the populace would still fall victim to in-group/out-group psychology (https://www.psychologytoday.com...). We would still find plenty of reasons to geographically (or otherwise arbitrarily) separate ourselves and wage violence. Not having religious belief does not make one into a rational person.

Perhaps, but without the institutionalized and systematic demonizing of every 'infidel' or 'heathen' as an automatic enemy I firmly believe the world would have advanced significantly. Ancient Greeks knew the world was round and that bathing was good for you. All that got suppressed by the Church, just to name one thing. How many lives would some personal hygiene have saved during the Middle Ages? No, I'm just looking at what religion in general has wrought and extrapolating from there.

Would it be perfect? No. We would indeed miss the art and the beauty of religious works as well as some of the most beautiful structures in the world. I would balance that against the repression, often violent, and the waste that religion has imposed upon humanity over the centuries starting with the shaman who really ran the tribe instead of the chief right up to the Popes who allowed pedophiles to infest their church and protected them from the law for hundreds of years.
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 5:15:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:50:41 PM, Mobutu wrote:
I predict the world will be a lot stupider and worse off. The schooling system would probably never have started up due to the lack of religious base for it to build itself on.

What leads you to this conclusion? Formal schooling can stem from any need to imbue necessary knowledge into children in a uniform, regulated way.

There would be no religion for the masses to unify the masses so civilization could expand rapidly with a unifying force.

Why does this require religion? You can attribute some unification to religion, but then there is a ton of division caused by religion, too.

There would be no church for scientists, pioneers, innovators and artists to gain patronage from to expand the field.

Perhaps the support would come from another source, since the resources wouldn't have been put towards religiously aligned organizations and efforts.

Morality and charity created by the faithful wouldn't spring up due to religion not existing.

Religion is not the sole source of morality and charity. All of the good people I know would be just as good without religion. Good people will do good will, perhaps even unified in a different sense besides under the banner of a religion. We mustn't forget all of the immorality that comes with religion, as well.

Astronomy would fail to benefit from the works of priests to study the skies.

I don't believe that astronomy relied solely on religious beliefs for its existence. "Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences, dating back to antiquity, with its origins in the religious, mythological, cosmological, calendrical, and astrological beliefs and practices of pre-history..." (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org...)

Many works of art would simply not exist, The Notre Dame, The pyramids and sphinx, the Hindu temple, the muslim mosque all because religion was not around.

That's true. Those works held a distinct motive in order to achieve their level of greatness. I do believe, however, than man would find alternative ways which to channel his natural creativity.
Benshapiro
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9/1/2015 5:48:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A hell of a lot more boring according to the Russians that repressed and destroyed religious culture/practices during the Militant Atheist movement under Lenin/Stalin.
Geogeer
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9/1/2015 6:14:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Humanity would die off. A road that leads nowhere becomes unused.
DanneJeRusse
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9/1/2015 6:14:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:48:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
A hell of a lot more boring according to the Russians that repressed and destroyed religious culture/practices during the Militant Atheist movement under Lenin/Stalin.

Thank you, Ben, for showing us how much people do not understand Communism.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 6:25:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:14:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Humanity would die off. A road that leads nowhere becomes unused.

Isn't Humanity going to die off one way or another, anyway?
DavidHenson
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9/1/2015 6:35:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:39:16 PM, Chaosism wrote:
I probably should have clarified...

Religion : The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. [Oxford]

Atheism : Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [Oxford]

Fair enough. Money is the key. Money, or land, on a more primitive level, was responsible for the abuse of power and growth of organized religion. I think money has a great deal to do with the suppression of science just as it had to do with the expansion and power of organized religion. So what we might expect to see is the expansion of science and technology, it is far more likely that money would either continue to suppress those endeavors or it would be a negative and destructive effect upon the world in which you imagine.

Atheist tend to have a sort of Utopian concept of science and technology, so this would have a profound effect upon them. And, alas, the result would be not unlike the South Park video I posted earlier in this thread.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
dhardage
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9/1/2015 6:44:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:35:34 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:39:16 PM, Chaosism wrote:
I probably should have clarified...

Religion : The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. [Oxford]

Atheism : Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [Oxford]

Fair enough. Money is the key. Money, or land, on a more primitive level, was responsible for the abuse of power and growth of organized religion. I think money has a great deal to do with the suppression of science just as it had to do with the expansion and power of organized religion. So what we might expect to see is the expansion of science and technology, it is far more likely that money would either continue to suppress those endeavors or it would be a negative and destructive effect upon the world in which you imagine.

Atheist tend to have a sort of Utopian concept of science and technology, so this would have a profound effect upon them. And, alas, the result would be not unlike the South Park video I posted earlier in this thread.

You should really ask an atheist what he thinks before you tell him. Non-believers don't have a single, unifying concept of the world or any attached dogma. The only common denominator is a lack of belief in any deity and rejection of any authority that supposedly originates with said non-existent deity. We have seen and continue to see ("witches" being beheaded and burned, homosexuals brutally tormented, unmarried women allowed to drown to avoid 'dishonor') the deleterious effects of religion. The US is supposed to be secular but those daffy Christians keep trying to poke their mythology into our government more and more every day while crying 'Oh, I'm being persecuted!" when they're told "No." They're selfish and unruly children who want everything their way and throw a tantrum when they don't get it. Sorry, this is off topic but I wanted to point out what religion does so we might have an idea what it could be like without it.,
Benshapiro
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9/1/2015 7:07:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:14:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/1/2015 5:48:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
A hell of a lot more boring according to the Russians that repressed and destroyed religious culture/practices during the Militant Atheist movement under Lenin/Stalin.

Thank you, Ben, for showing us how much people do not understand Communism.

Here's your reading homework for the day
http://www.russkiivopros.com...
Mobutu
Posts: 325
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9/1/2015 7:08:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:15:35 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:50:41 PM, Mobutu wrote:
I predict the world will be a lot stupider and worse off. The schooling system would probably never have started up due to the lack of religious base for it to build itself on.

What leads you to this conclusion? Formal schooling can stem from any need to imbue necessary knowledge into children in a uniform, regulated way.

There would be no religion for the masses to unify the masses so civilization could expand rapidly with a unifying force.

Why does this require religion? You can attribute some unification to religion, but then there is a ton of division caused by religion, too.

There would be no church for scientists, pioneers, innovators and artists to gain patronage from to expand the field.

Perhaps the support would come from another source, since the resources wouldn't have been put towards religiously aligned organizations and efforts.

Morality and charity created by the faithful wouldn't spring up due to religion not existing.

Religion is not the sole source of morality and charity. All of the good people I know would be just as good without religion. Good people will do good will, perhaps even unified in a different sense besides under the banner of a religion. We mustn't forget all of the immorality that comes with religion, as well.

Astronomy would fail to benefit from the works of priests to study the skies.

I don't believe that astronomy relied solely on religious beliefs for its existence. "Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences, dating back to antiquity, with its origins in the religious, mythological, cosmological, calendrical, and astrological beliefs and practices of pre-history..." (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org...)

Many works of art would simply not exist, The Notre Dame, The pyramids and sphinx, the Hindu temple, the muslim mosque all because religion was not around.

That's true. Those works held a distinct motive in order to achieve their level of greatness. I do believe, however, than man would find alternative ways which to channel his natural creativity.

1) most of the educational facilities through out the world have been religious, From the Wats of Buddhist Asia, The madrassas of the Islamic world and the Seminaries of the Christendom in Europe. Also in 1784 over 250,000 children attended Sunday schools in England due to the lack of education for the poor, by 1831 1.2 million children were attending such schools.
2) Religion can be a major unifying force and a single constant in a civilization. For example in multi cultural churches popping up in the west there are many ethnicities and culture and languages present. However there is one main unifying force, religion. Also I accept that multi faith societies are often disjointed and lack unity. Homogenous societies as a whole tend to be unified and this isn't exclusive to religion.
3) Which source would this patronage come from? Although rulers have also historically provided patronage as well, rulers were often kleptocrats who funded their own lifestyles and not as reliable for funding as the church
4) Historically religious institutions like the church provided one of the main sources of charity. For instance according to this study (http://www.academia.edu...) "early Christians went to great lengths that is, made substantial sacrifices to meet other people"s needs. The apologist Aristides, writing in the second century, reports thatR13;if there is among them [Christians] any that is poor and needy, and if they have no spare food, they fast two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food (Aristides 1896:277)." [page 5 of the study] which just show the extreme lengths Christians went to provide for others. Even in the modern day Christian charity is very much apparent. For instance many food banks are run from churches and the Salvation army is a very notable example of the charitable nature of many Christians. Many charities like Christian aid also operate world wide even in non Christian countries and help people of all/no faiths.
5) I never said it was the sole source of astronomy although it was a major contributing factor to the advancement of the field in historical times.
6) I agree that man would certainly express creativity in other ways it cannot be denied that religion has contributed to this in many incalculable ways. From the hindu and Buddhist statues and icons of their gods and of the Buddha to the works of art of Michael Angelo and from the Christian Renaissance, I cannot speculate about the state of art in world where religion has not happened, however in places where religion was repressed to the fringed of society art tended to be bland and for the purposes of propaganda (I'm not saying that atheist art is all propaganda however societies like the Soviets and the Chinese during the time when religion was repressed to the fringes art tended to loose it's purpose beyond propaganda).
Geogeer
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9/1/2015 7:18:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:25:33 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:14:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Humanity would die off. A road that leads nowhere becomes unused.

Isn't Humanity going to die off one way or another, anyway?

As in quickly.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,008
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9/1/2015 7:20:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

We already have many examples of what the world would be like without religious beliefs. Look at the many non religious institutions like the UN, IMF, Global initiatives to eradicate poverty, AIDS, educational institutions, etc. and governments that separate church and state so as to function as secular governing bodies all created outside of religion. We can function without religion and our secular institutions have proven we can.
DavidHenson
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9/1/2015 7:26:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:44:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
You should really ask an atheist what he thinks before you tell him. Non-believers don't have a single, unifying concept of the world or any attached dogma.

Yeah, right. I know. You all read that in a book by Richard Dawkins. See, Dawkins is intellectually retarded. You can't train a cat?

Ever seen a lion tamer?

The only common denominator is a lack of belief in any deity and rejection of any authority that supposedly originates with said non-existent deity.

You mean like a Buddhist, Taoist or Confucianist?

We have seen and continue to see ("witches" being beheaded and burned, homosexuals brutally tormented, unmarried women allowed to drown to avoid 'dishonor') the deleterious effects of religion.

You got a time machine?! Seen any Christians in the Colosseum? The Crusades?

The US is supposed to be secular but those daffy Christians keep trying to poke their mythology into our government more and more every day while crying 'Oh, I'm being persecuted!" when they're told "No." They're selfish and unruly children who want everything their way and throw a tantrum when they don't get it. Sorry, this is off topic but I wanted to point out what religion does so we might have an idea what it could be like without it.,

Well, I myself loath organized religion and can't wait to see it destroyed. Have you ever read the book of Revelation? It has a pretty good perception of what it might look like, as it foretells the destruction of Babylon The Great, The Harlot.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
dhardage
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9/1/2015 7:36:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 7:26:37 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:44:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
You should really ask an atheist what he thinks before you tell him. Non-believers don't have a single, unifying concept of the world or any attached dogma.

Yeah, right. I know. You all read that in a book by Richard Dawkins. See, Dawkins is intellectually retarded. You can't train a cat?

Ever seen a lion tamer?

Ever see what happened to Sigfried of Sigfried and Roy? They are still wild animals and don't always do what you think they will. That said, what's your point?

The only common denominator is a lack of belief in any deity and rejection of any authority that supposedly originates with said non-existent deity.

You mean like a Buddhist, Taoist or Confucianist?

All of whom follow the teachings and philosophy of one person. There is no atheist Buddha or Confucius. Again, what's your point?

We have seen and continue to see ("witches" being beheaded and burned, homosexuals brutally tormented, unmarried women allowed to drown to avoid 'dishonor') the deleterious effects of religion.

You got a time machine?! Seen any Christians in the Colosseum? The Crusades?

No, but we have records and lots of written testimony. Still not seeing any point.


The US is supposed to be secular but those daffy Christians keep trying to poke their mythology into our government more and more every day while crying 'Oh, I'm being persecuted!" when they're told "No." They're selfish and unruly children who want everything their way and throw a tantrum when they don't get it. Sorry, this is off topic but I wanted to point out what religion does so we might have an idea what it could be like without it.,

Well, I myself loath organized religion and can't wait to see it destroyed. Have you ever read the book of Revelation? It has a pretty good perception of what it might look like, as it foretells the destruction of Babylon The Great, The Harlot.

It's no worse than the Norse Ragnarok when all of the gods, deities, and other supernatural creatures are supposed to kill one another off in an orgy of destruction. Myths don't mean anything except as allegories or entertainment. Still waiting for a point.
RuvDraba
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9/1/2015 7:43:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Such a world wouldn't be this world, because a world of poverty and poor education is inevitably full of religious beliefs and the institutional exploitation of ignorance and superstition.

But assuming people were wealthy enough and educated enough to set aside religious beliefs as mere conjectures and not principles to live by, such a world would still need moral conversations, public beneficence and cultural cohesion, and it'd still have people wanting to participate in those things.

I think it might have more art, more sport, more secular NGOs, and possibly more philosophy.
Harikrish
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9/1/2015 8:04:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 7:26:37 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:44:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
You should really ask an atheist what he thinks before you tell him. Non-believers don't have a single, unifying concept of the world or any attached dogma.

Yeah, right. I know. You all read that in a book by Richard Dawkins. See, Dawkins is intellectually retarded. You can't train a cat?

Ever seen a lion tamer?

The only common denominator is a lack of belief in any deity and rejection of any authority that supposedly originates with said non-existent deity.

You mean like a Buddhist, Taoist or Confucianist?

We have seen and continue to see ("witches" being beheaded and burned, homosexuals brutally tormented, unmarried women allowed to drown to avoid 'dishonor') the deleterious effects of religion.

You got a time machine?! Seen any Christians in the Colosseum? The Crusades?

The US is supposed to be secular but those daffy Christians keep trying to poke their mythology into our government more and more every day while crying 'Oh, I'm being persecuted!" when they're told "No." They're selfish and unruly children who want everything their way and throw a tantrum when they don't get it. Sorry, this is off topic but I wanted to point out what religion does so we might have an idea what it could be like without it.,

Well, I myself loath organized religion and can't wait to see it destroyed. Have you ever read the book of Revelation? It has a pretty good perception of what it might look like, as it foretells the destruction of Babylon The Great, The Harlot.

The author of the book of Revelations was a Jew. He read the destruction of the Jews their temple and Jerusalem in Daniel in the abomination of desolation and was saddened to see such destruction of his people. He expanded Daniels ideas to include the Gentiles too so they too would be subject to God's justice. Be very afraid when a Jew acts inclusive.
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 8:04:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 7:08:29 PM, Mobutu wrote:

1) most of the educational facilities through out the world have been religious, From the Wats of Buddhist Asia, The madrassas of the Islamic world and the Seminaries of the Christendom in Europe. Also in 1784 over 250,000 children attended Sunday schools in England due to the lack of education for the poor, by 1831 1.2 million children were attending such schools.
2) Religion can be a major unifying force and a single constant in a civilization. For example in multi cultural churches popping up in the west there are many ethnicities and culture and languages present. However there is one main unifying force, religion. Also I accept that multi faith societies are often disjointed and lack unity. Homogenous societies as a whole tend to be unified and this isn't exclusive to religion.
3) Which source would this patronage come from? Although rulers have also historically provided patronage as well, rulers were often kleptocrats who funded their own lifestyles and not as reliable for funding as the church
4) Historically religious institutions like the church provided one of the main sources of charity. For instance according to this study (http://www.academia.edu...) "early Christians went to great lengths that is, made substantial sacrifices to meet other people"s needs. The apologist Aristides, writing in the second century, reports thatR13;if there is among them [Christians] any that is poor and needy, and if they have no spare food, they fast two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food (Aristides 1896:277)." [page 5 of the study] which just show the extreme lengths Christians went to provide for others. Even in the modern day Christian charity is very much apparent. For instance many food banks are run from churches and the Salvation army is a very notable example of the charitable nature of many Christians. Many charities like Christian aid also operate world wide even in non Christian countries and help people of all/no faiths.
5) I never said it was the sole source of astronomy although it was a major contributing factor to the advancement of the field in historical times.
6) I agree that man would certainly express creativity in other ways it cannot be denied that religion has contributed to this in many incalculable ways. From the hindu and Buddhist statues and icons of their gods and of the Buddha to the works of art of Michael Angelo and from the Christian Renaissance, I cannot speculate about the state of art in world where religion has not happened, however in places where religion was repressed to the fringed of society art tended to be bland and for the purposes of propaganda (I'm not saying that atheist art is all propaganda however societies like the Soviets and the Chinese during the time when religion was repressed to the fringes art tended to loose it's purpose beyond propaganda).

Good responses.

1) Gotchya. But, since you even lead with "most", it indicates that it does emerge without religion as a basis. I agree that religious belief can be a great motivator, but other sources of inspiration may come about in the absence of religion.

2) Religions may help encourage stronger divisions between groups in that, religious doctrine, though claim of being the "one truth" and often condemning those not of the faith, promotes the differences between groups as "right vs. wrong" in lieu of "us vs. them". The former promotes more righteousness and justification for wrongdoings against people of other groups. This is mere speculation on my part, though.

3) Since a world without religion would be nothing that resembles what we have known it to be, and that I am not well versed in history, I cannot make any worthwhile speculations on this.

4) I agree with you. Religious provide a common ground for people to unite and accomplish great deeds towards their fellow man. However, as per a double-edged sword, this same common groups allows people to unite to accomplish dreadful acts against their fellow man, as well. This is largely due to psychological phenomena such as Conformity and Groupthink. Give and take, I suppose.

5) Sorry, I misunderstood, then. I agree.

6) I agree. We really don't have the capacity to delve into specific details such as this. My intentions with this thread is to see the kind of general responses that are given. I like seeing differing viewpoints.
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 8:14:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:35:34 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:39:16 PM, Chaosism wrote:
I probably should have clarified...

Religion : The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. [Oxford]

Atheism : Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [Oxford]

Fair enough. Money is the key. Money, or land, on a more primitive level, was responsible for the abuse of power and growth of organized religion. I think money has a great deal to do with the suppression of science just as it had to do with the expansion and power of organized religion. So what we might expect to see is the expansion of science and technology, it is far more likely that money would either continue to suppress those endeavors or it would be a negative and destructive effect upon the world in which you imagine.

I would certainly not expect a terrible amount of difference in the way the human world functions. I suspect that we'd fixate on something else that bolsters the in-group/out-group discrimination (as I mention in a previous post) and we would still be vulnerable to corruption and self-serving leaders. The difference I do see is that people would not have a godly decree or doctrine to justify their actions against their fellow man; they would be more accountable for their actions, both to themselves and to others.

Atheist tend to have a sort of Utopian concept of science and technology, so this would have a profound effect upon them. And, alas, the result would be not unlike the South Park video I posted earlier in this thread.

This is likely true for ANY group with ideals. Even if the world was entirely Christian, human nature would still reign, and violence and corruption will exist. There is no Utopia beyond our naive imaginations, in my opinion.
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 8:20:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 7:18:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:25:33 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:14:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Humanity would die off. A road that leads nowhere becomes unused.

Isn't Humanity going to die off one way or another, anyway?

As in quickly.

By what means, killing each other off or something??

Also, can I back up and ask you what you meant by, "A road that leads nowhere becomes unused", in this context? Forgive me if I'm just being dense, but I am not getting a relevant meaning out of that.
Geogeer
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9/1/2015 8:38:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 8:20:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 7:18:36 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:25:33 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:14:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 1:13:17 PM, Chaosism wrote:
What do you imagine would become of this world if it was purely atheistic and devoid of religious beliefs?

Humanity would die off. A road that leads nowhere becomes unused.

Isn't Humanity going to die off one way or another, anyway?

As in quickly.

By what means, killing each other off or something??

Also, can I back up and ask you what you meant by, "A road that leads nowhere becomes unused", in this context? Forgive me if I'm just being dense, but I am not getting a relevant meaning out of that.

Communism leads to states like China, North Korea, and the USSR. Human rights become a toy of the state. Birth rates fall drastically because life becomes about the self.

Atheism is a road that leads nowhere. There is no intrinsic purpose to life. You're born, you eat, you die. Atheism becomes self focused because it is all about the self. So when a mine shuts down people stop traveling the road. When there is nothing after this life, there is no need for additional people to travel the road of life.
DavidHenson
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9/1/2015 8:49:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 7:36:39 PM, dhardage wrote:
Ever see what happened to Sigfried of Sigfried and Roy? They are still wild animals and don't always do what you think they will. That said, what's your point?

That Sigfried was about as good a lion tamer as Dawkins is a philosopher, and that atheists are people and people think alike. To say that the only thing you have in common with each other is the absence of a deity, not only is blatantly false but also demonstrates a profound ignorance of what a deity is.

All of whom follow the teachings and philosophy of one person. There is no atheist Buddha or Confucius. Again, what's your point?

That a deity isn't necessary to religion.

No, but we have records and lots of written testimony. Still not seeing any point.

What? From the Bible? Or do you think that the secular histories are anywhere near as accurate? You probably think that secular histories don't have myth's, legends, propaganda. That's backwards.

It's no worse than the Norse Ragnarok when all of the gods, deities, and other supernatural creatures are supposed to kill one another off in an orgy of destruction. Myths don't mean anything except as allegories or entertainment. Still waiting for a point.

The point is that your hypothetical proposition is a fantasy you created with the atheist Utopian religious world view.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Chaosism
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9/1/2015 8:58:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 8:38:20 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 9/1/2015 8:20:11 PM, Chaosism wrote:

By what means, killing each other off or something??

Also, can I back up and ask you what you meant by, "A road that leads nowhere becomes unused", in this context? Forgive me if I'm just being dense, but I am not getting a relevant meaning out of that.

Communism leads to states like China, North Korea, and the USSR. Human rights become a toy of the state. Birth rates fall drastically because life becomes about the self.

Why is atheism being equated with Communism?? The only system of government that I know of that would become invalid would be Theocracy.

Atheism is a road that leads nowhere. There is no intrinsic purpose to life. You're born, you eat, you die. Atheism becomes self focused because it is all about the self. So when a mine shuts down people stop traveling the road. When there is nothing after this life, there is no need for additional people to travel the road of life.

Atheists who are moral nihilists don't suddenly say, "well, this is all pointless", and then throw themselves off a bridge. the non-recognition of an objective purpose does not detract from the value of one's subjective purpose. I only know a couple other atheists, but none of them have any trouble finding purpose and chasing goals, and even planning for when they depart this world just like anyone else. Would you just give up if it was *proven* to you that there was no God to grant you a purpose?
dhardage
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9/1/2015 9:04:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 8:49:12 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 7:36:39 PM, dhardage wrote:
Ever see what happened to Sigfried of Sigfried and Roy? They are still wild animals and don't always do what you think they will. That said, what's your point?

That Sigfried was about as good a lion tamer as Dawkins is a philosopher,

Seeing as Sigfried did it professionally for decades he was actually pretty good. I don't think you could just walk in and take over.

and that atheists are people and people think alike.

*stifled laughter* That's like saying all people with dark hair think alike. It's silly to the extreme.

To say that the only thing you have in common with each other is the absence of a deity, not only is blatantly false

Put up or shut up. Show me any study, any survey, any kind of real examination of how atheists think. If you can't then you're just a liar.

but also demonstrates a profound ignorance of what a deity is.

Deity according to dictionary.com
1. a god or goddess.

2. divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

3. the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death.

4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity.

5. the Deity, God; Supreme Being.

If there is ignorance here, it is not on my part.

All of whom follow the teachings and philosophy of one person. There is no atheist Buddha or Confucius. Again, what's your point?

That a deity isn't necessary to religion.

A deity is usually considered the center of religion but as noted, people who are considered on par can be considered deity.

No, but we have records and lots of written testimony. Still not seeing any point.

What? From the Bible? Or do you think that the secular histories are anywhere near as accurate? You probably think that secular histories don't have myth's, legends, propaganda. That's backwards.

Dude, you're holy books is so full of errors and pure fiction that no historian worth is salt would ever call it history. There is NO external, non-biblical support for any of the miraculous things that happened and it's statements about nature and the structure of the universe are so fouled up that whoever wrote it wasn't even able to count past 4.

It's no worse than the Norse Ragnarok when all of the gods, deities, and other supernatural creatures are supposed to kill one another off in an orgy of destruction. Myths don't mean anything except as allegories or entertainment. Still waiting for a point.

The point is that your hypothetical proposition is a fantasy you created with the atheist Utopian religious world view.

First, I have no religion. I did not say it would be utopia, I just think it would be further advanced in some ways. Sorry it hurts your butt to hear that your belief isn't the panacea it claims and in fact is a detriment to society a good deal of the time but that's just how it is.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

I don't acknowledge any boss except my wife and maybe the guy who signs my paycheck.