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God created the Earth (twice)

lannan13
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9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

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The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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9/1/2015 4:49:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Maybe it was just describing what God placed on earth, not the earth itself. In Genesis 1, it seems to be discussing the Universe as a whole, not the world. The earth was already created, as day and night were already established; there has to be a certain frame of reference in order to determine day and night. Let us say that this frame of reference is earth. There is no indication of God messing up the first time, just two different accounts of the same creation from two different points of reference: the Universe and the Earth.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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9/1/2015 4:53:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:49:18 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Maybe it was just describing what God placed on earth, not the earth itself. In Genesis 1, it seems to be discussing the Universe as a whole, not the world. The earth was already created, as day and night were already established; there has to be a certain frame of reference in order to determine day and night. Let us say that this frame of reference is earth. There is no indication of God messing up the first time, just two different accounts of the same creation from two different points of reference: the Universe and the Earth.

Not true if we continue to look further into Genesis 1, "
And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

If that's true then how can the earth be created again after God has created man?

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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9/1/2015 4:53:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:

I was taught growing up that everything is created twice. The first account being a "spiritual" creation, and the second a "physical."

take that for what it is worth.
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The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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9/1/2015 4:58:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:53:43 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:49:18 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Maybe it was just describing what God placed on earth, not the earth itself. In Genesis 1, it seems to be discussing the Universe as a whole, not the world. The earth was already created, as day and night were already established; there has to be a certain frame of reference in order to determine day and night. Let us say that this frame of reference is earth. There is no indication of God messing up the first time, just two different accounts of the same creation from two different points of reference: the Universe and the Earth.

Not true if we continue to look further into Genesis 1, "
And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

If that's true then how can the earth be created again after God has created man?

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."



27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

It is evident that the author violates chronological order; it is rather like a flash-back.

The author gives the account of the Creation as a whole in Chapter 1, and then goes back to the specific creation of Adam and Eve in Chapter 2.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/1/2015 5:01:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Both versions of Genesis wouldn't pass a 4th grade science class. That is why the bible isn't taught in schools as part of the academic curriculum. The bible contains inspirational stories for adults who never had the opportunity to study science and want a simpler explanation than evolution or cosmology which are beyond their grasp.
lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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9/1/2015 5:04:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:53:48 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:


I was taught growing up that everything is created twice. The first account being a "spiritual" creation, and the second a "physical."

take that for what it is worth.

Though if that's true then why is man created yet again? If it was both spiritual and physical then which one was which?
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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9/1/2015 5:06:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:01:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Both versions of Genesis wouldn't pass a 4th grade science class. That is why the bible isn't taught in schools as part of the academic curriculum. The bible contains inspirational stories for adults who never had the opportunity to study science and want a simpler explanation than evolution or cosmology which are beyond their grasp.

Would you think that someone with no knowledge in science would write an acurrate book on the subject?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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9/1/2015 5:07:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:58:04 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:53:43 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:49:18 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Maybe it was just describing what God placed on earth, not the earth itself. In Genesis 1, it seems to be discussing the Universe as a whole, not the world. The earth was already created, as day and night were already established; there has to be a certain frame of reference in order to determine day and night. Let us say that this frame of reference is earth. There is no indication of God messing up the first time, just two different accounts of the same creation from two different points of reference: the Universe and the Earth.

Not true if we continue to look further into Genesis 1, "
And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

If that's true then how can the earth be created again after God has created man?

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."



27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

It is evident that the author violates chronological order; it is rather like a flash-back.

The author gives the account of the Creation as a whole in Chapter 1, and then goes back to the specific creation of Adam and Eve in Chapter 2.

That would be understandable except for the fact that the entirety is redone in Genesis 2.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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9/1/2015 5:11:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:07:40 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:58:04 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:53:43 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:49:18 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Maybe it was just describing what God placed on earth, not the earth itself. In Genesis 1, it seems to be discussing the Universe as a whole, not the world. The earth was already created, as day and night were already established; there has to be a certain frame of reference in order to determine day and night. Let us say that this frame of reference is earth. There is no indication of God messing up the first time, just two different accounts of the same creation from two different points of reference: the Universe and the Earth.

Not true if we continue to look further into Genesis 1, "
And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fourth day."

If that's true then how can the earth be created again after God has created man?

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning"the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."



27
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

It is evident that the author violates chronological order; it is rather like a flash-back.

The author gives the account of the Creation as a whole in Chapter 1, and then goes back to the specific creation of Adam and Eve in Chapter 2.

That would be understandable except for the fact that the entirety is redone in Genesis 2.

It is not entirely redone. Genesis 1 describes the creation of the Universe. Genesis 2 takes a step back and only discusses that of the earth and Man. There is nothing in Gen. 2 about the creation of the Heavens, day and night, and Light.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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9/1/2015 5:13:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It was common in ancient manuscripts of the time to repeat themselves. In the case of the creation account, there are two accounts given in different order but not, as is often thought, contradictory. The first account is the chronological account and the second is the topical account, given in the order as relevant to man. For example, man is put in the garden so that is mentioned.

Its like saying "I'm going to the store to pick up bread and milk" and saying to someone else that "I'm going to pick up some milk and bread at the store."
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
kasmic
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9/1/2015 5:18:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:04:21 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:53:48 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:


I was taught growing up that everything is created twice. The first account being a "spiritual" creation, and the second a "physical."

take that for what it is worth.

Though if that's true then why is man created yet again? If it was both spiritual and physical then which one was which?

Well if the earth is created spiritually and physically would not man also be created both spiritually and physically as well.
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DavidHenson
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9/1/2015 5:21:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:01:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Both versions of Genesis wouldn't pass a 4th grade science class. That is why the bible isn't taught in schools as part of the academic curriculum. The bible contains inspirational stories for adults who never had the opportunity to study science and want a simpler explanation than evolution or cosmology which are beyond their grasp.

Hmmm. Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please? What exactly is scientifically inaccurate about Genesis?
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Harikrish
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9/1/2015 5:23:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:06:25 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/1/2015 5:01:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Both versions of Genesis wouldn't pass a 4th grade science class. That is why the bible isn't taught in schools as part of the academic curriculum. The bible contains inspirational stories for adults who never had the opportunity to study science and want a simpler explanation than evolution or cosmology which are beyond their grasp.

Would you think that someone with no knowledge in science would write an acurrate book on the subject?

Genesis is full of nonsense. Talking snake, tress smarter than Adam and Eve, trees capable of giving eternal life. There was light before the stars were formed. The chronology of events is all messed up.
There are many past discussions on Genesis and all the unscientific contradictions it contains. Why rehash this old topic?
Harikrish
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9/1/2015 5:32:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:21:52 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 5:01:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Both versions of Genesis wouldn't pass a 4th grade science class. That is why the bible isn't taught in schools as part of the academic curriculum. The bible contains inspirational stories for adults who never had the opportunity to study science and want a simpler explanation than evolution or cosmology which are beyond their grasp.

Hmmm. Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please? What exactly is scientifically inaccurate about Genesis?

For starters.

"The Creation Account

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Thus begins the first chapter of the first book of the Bible " Genesis 1. It goes on to tell how God created the entire cosmos in only six days.

Genesis 1 says that plants were created before the sun, 1 which is impossible, since plants need sunlight to exist. It says that earth was created before the stars, 2 which is also impossible, since planets are born from the heavy metals forged in stars. It also claims that daytime was created before the sun, 3 which is bizarre even from a primitive ancient viewpoint, for one would think that the ancients could have easily concluded that daytime is caused by sunlight. It also says that trees came before fish, and that birds came before "creeping things" " both statements being contrary to the fossil record."
DanneJeRusse
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9/1/2015 5:38:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:53:48 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:


I was taught growing up that everything is created twice. The first account being a "spiritual" creation, and the second a "physical."

take that for what it is worth.

Since, the word "Spiritual" has yet to be defined to mean anything, the point is moot.
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kasmic
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9/1/2015 5:42:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:38:16 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:53:48 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:


I was taught growing up that everything is created twice. The first account being a "spiritual" creation, and the second a "physical."

take that for what it is worth.

Since, the word "Spiritual" has yet to be defined to mean anything, the point is moot.

Agreed, I dont believe in the "spiritual" I just was adding that some have addressed this by saying that there are two different creations.
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9/1/2015 5:50:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:32:06 PM, Harikrish wrote:
"The Creation Account

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Thus begins the first chapter of the first book of the Bible " Genesis 1. It goes on to tell how God created the entire cosmos in only six days.

Actually, it doesn't. [Genesis 1:1] The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.

At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards. (The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - With Reverence: Appendix: 3C Hebrew Verbs Indicating Continuous or Progressive Action, page 1572. Revised 1984.)

Genesis 1 says that plants were created before the sun, 1 which is impossible, since plants need sunlight to exist. It says that earth was created before the stars, 2 which is also impossible, since planets are born from the heavy metals forged in stars. It also claims that daytime was created before the sun, 3 which is bizarre even from a primitive ancient viewpoint, for one would think that the ancients could have easily concluded that daytime is caused by sunlight. It also says that trees came before fish, and that birds came before "creeping things" " both statements being contrary to the fossil record."

[Genesis 1:3] Here the Hebrew verb waiyomer (proceeded to say) is in the imperfect state indicating progressive action. This first chapter of Genesis has more than 40 cases of the imperfect state. The creative "days" were a gradual process of making Earth habitable.

The light was a diffused light which gradually grew in intensity. Some translations more clearly indicate the progressive action:

A Distinctive Translation of Genesis by J.W. Watts (1963): "Afterward God proceeded to say, 'Let there be light'; and gradually light came into existence."

Benjamin Wills Newton's translation (1888): "And God proceeded to say [future], Let Light become to be, and Light proceeded to become to be [future]."

The Hebrew word for light, ohr, is used. This distinguishes the light from the source of the light. Later, on the fourth "day" the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying that the source of the light only becomes visible then through the swaddling band.

[Genesis 1:5] Here the Hebrew word yohm translated day, indicates the daylight hours, but the term will be applied in the following verses to indicate various lengths of time. The word is used to describe any period of time from a few hours to thousands of years. (Zechariah 14:8 / Proverbs 25:13 / Psalm 90:4 / Isaiah 49:8 / Matthew 10:15)

The terms evening and morning are metaphoric. At this point there are no witnesses on Earth to a literal night and day, but there are witnesses in heaven. (Job 38:4, 7) The evening symbolizes the period of time in which the events unfolding were indiscernible to the angels in heaven. The morning symbolizes the period in which the angels could distinguish what had been accomplished. (Proverbs 4:18)

[Genesis 1:14] The light in Genesis 1:14 is different from that in Genesis 1:3. In Genesis 1:3 the Hebrew word ohr is used, meaning the light from the source. Light in a general sense, whereas the light in Genesis 1:14 the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying the source of the light is now visible. See [Genesis 1:3]

The sun, moon and stars are set as a sign of the seasons, days and years. A most accurate timepiece. The use of the term "sign" is often mistaken as a reference to astrology, which is incorrect.

[Genesis 1:16] The Hebrew waiyaas (proceeded to make), from asah, in Genesis 1:16 is different than bara (create) in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27. Asah is the imperfect state indicating progressive action. The luminaries as part of the heavens had already been completed in Genesis 1:1, but now they were visible on Earth and prepared for their intended use. Asah can mean make, or appoint (Deuteronomy 15:1), establish (2 Samuel 7:11), form (Jeremiah 18:4), or prepare (Genesis 21:8). Also see [Genesis 1:1]

The creative days, each of which may have lasted thousands or even millions of years, and had taken place an indeterminate period of time after the creation was complete in verse one, are not indicative of any speculation regarding the age of the Earth and universe. The Bible simply doesn"t say.

Period 1 - Light; a division between night and day (Genesis 1:3-5)

Period 2 - The Expanse; a division between waters above and beneath. (Genesis 1:6-8)

Period 3 - Dry land and vegetation. (Genesis 1:9-13)

Period 4 - Heavenly luminaries become visible from Earth. (Genesis 1:14-19)

Period 5 - Aquatic and flying creatures. (Genesis 1:20-23)

Period 6 - Land animals and man. (Genesis 1:24-31)

[See More from my Pathway Machine | Skeptic's Study Bible: Genesis 1 http://www.pathwaymachine.com...
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Alpha3141
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9/1/2015 6:31:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

It is referencing what happened during creation. The plants did not begin to "grow" yet immediately when they where created. There is no inconsistency
12_13
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9/1/2015 6:32:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 4:30:44 PM, lannan13 wrote:
We all know the generic story of God creating the world in Genesis 1, "
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."


But what about Genesis 2:4-10? " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground"trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
"

So with that said we can see that Genesis 1 is the creation of the world, but if that is the case then why is it created again in Genesis 2:4-10? Did God decided that he fvcked up and decided to take a mallet and start over? We can see that if you read the Bible word for word then you can see that God, by this standard, has made mistakes, thus making him not perfect and disproving the Christian God by itself.

Please notice, Genesis 1, Elohim creates and in Genesis 2 Yahweh forms.

In the beginning God [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1
God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27

Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Yahweh God planted a garden eastward, in Eden, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:7-8

If you are accurate and literal, they are not same things. But probably atheism falls, if you are truthful and accurate?
Harikrish
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9/1/2015 6:40:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 5:50:08 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 5:32:06 PM, Harikrish wrote:
"The Creation Account

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Thus begins the first chapter of the first book of the Bible " Genesis 1. It goes on to tell how God created the entire cosmos in only six days.

Actually, it doesn't. [Genesis 1:1] The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.

At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards. (The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - With Reverence: Appendix: 3C Hebrew Verbs Indicating Continuous or Progressive Action, page 1572. Revised 1984.)

Genesis 1 says that plants were created before the sun, 1 which is impossible, since plants need sunlight to exist. It says that earth was created before the stars, 2 which is also impossible, since planets are born from the heavy metals forged in stars. It also claims that daytime was created before the sun, 3 which is bizarre even from a primitive ancient viewpoint, for one would think that the ancients could have easily concluded that daytime is caused by sunlight. It also says that trees came before fish, and that birds came before "creeping things" " both statements being contrary to the fossil record."

[Genesis 1:3] Here the Hebrew verb waiyomer (proceeded to say) is in the imperfect state indicating progressive action. This first chapter of Genesis has more than 40 cases of the imperfect state. The creative "days" were a gradual process of making Earth habitable.

The light was a diffused light which gradually grew in intensity. Some translations more clearly indicate the progressive action:

A Distinctive Translation of Genesis by J.W. Watts (1963): "Afterward God proceeded to say, 'Let there be light'; and gradually light came into existence."

Benjamin Wills Newton's translation (1888): "And God proceeded to say [future], Let Light become to be, and Light proceeded to become to be [future]."

The Hebrew word for light, ohr, is used. This distinguishes the light from the source of the light. Later, on the fourth "day" the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying that the source of the light only becomes visible then through the swaddling band.

[Genesis 1:5] Here the Hebrew word yohm translated day, indicates the daylight hours, but the term will be applied in the following verses to indicate various lengths of time. The word is used to describe any period of time from a few hours to thousands of years. (Zechariah 14:8 / Proverbs 25:13 / Psalm 90:4 / Isaiah 49:8 / Matthew 10:15)

The terms evening and morning are metaphoric. At this point there are no witnesses on Earth to a literal night and day, but there are witnesses in heaven. (Job 38:4, 7) The evening symbolizes the period of time in which the events unfolding were indiscernible to the angels in heaven. The morning symbolizes the period in which the angels could distinguish what had been accomplished. (Proverbs 4:18)

[Genesis 1:14] The light in Genesis 1:14 is different from that in Genesis 1:3. In Genesis 1:3 the Hebrew word ohr is used, meaning the light from the source. Light in a general sense, whereas the light in Genesis 1:14 the Hebrew word maohr is used, signifying the source of the light is now visible. See [Genesis 1:3]

The sun, moon and stars are set as a sign of the seasons, days and years. A most accurate timepiece. The use of the term "sign" is often mistaken as a reference to astrology, which is incorrect.

[Genesis 1:16] The Hebrew waiyaas (proceeded to make), from asah, in Genesis 1:16 is different than bara (create) in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27. Asah is the imperfect state indicating progressive action. The luminaries as part of the heavens had already been completed in Genesis 1:1, but now they were visible on Earth and prepared for their intended use. Asah can mean make, or appoint (Deuteronomy 15:1), establish (2 Samuel 7:11), form (Jeremiah 18:4), or prepare (Genesis 21:8). Also see [Genesis 1:1]

The creative days, each of which may have lasted thousands or even millions of years, and had taken place an indeterminate period of time after the creation was complete in verse one, are not indicative of any speculation regarding the age of the Earth and universe. The Bible simply doesn"t say.

Period 1 - Light; a division between night and day (Genesis 1:3-5)

Period 2 - The Expanse; a division between waters above and beneath. (Genesis 1:6-8)

Period 3 - Dry land and vegetation. (Genesis 1:9-13)

Period 4 - Heavenly luminaries become visible from Earth. (Genesis 1:14-19)

Period 5 - Aquatic and flying creatures. (Genesis 1:20-23)

Period 6 - Land animals and man. (Genesis 1:24-31)

[See More from my Pathway Machine | Skeptic's Study Bible: Genesis 1 http://www.pathwaymachine.com...

The Jews were a tribal people and never reached any level of civilization compared to their neighbouring Egyptians, Mesopotamia, Babylon, India or China. They were a divided tribal group and repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their neighbours who were more powerful and advanced.
The jews never contributed anything in the field of science,mathematics, medicine or knowledge and were overshadowed by their neighbours.

Exodus never happened and the walls of Jericho did not come a-tumbling down. How archaeologists are shaking Israel to its biblical foundations.

Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."

"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom."

Jerusalem was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire. These findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades.

The Hebrew Cosmos

The ancient Hebrews conceptualized the cosmos very differently from the way modern science does. Their concept of the cosmos was wholly incongruent with science, and unfortunately for creationism, it was the premise on which Genesis 1 was written.

Genesis 1 mentions "the firmament" nine times. What is the firmament? According to Hebrew cosmology, the firmament is a solid structure which separates the oceans of heaven from the atmosphere of the sky, and thus keeps the oceans of heaven from falling on us. 4 If this were accurate, then the mission to the moon would have needed a submarine. There are floodgates in heaven which open up and pour these oceans into the clouds. 5 The clouds are like bags that transport rain for distribution. It is considered miraculous that the clouds don"t burst like water balloons under the weight of the water. 6 Other types of weather, such as snow, are contained in the warehouses of heaven.

Continued.....
Harikrish
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9/1/2015 6:48:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from previous post.

At 9/1/2015 5:50:08 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 5:32:06 PM, Harikrish wrote:
"The Creation Account

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Thus begins the first chapter of the first book of the Bible " Genesis 1. It goes on to tell how God created the entire cosmos in only six days.

The Hebrew Cosmos

"The ancient Hebrews conceptualized the cosmos very differently from the way modern science does. Their concept of the cosmos was wholly incongruent with science, and unfortunately for creationism, it was the premise on which Genesis 1 was written.

Genesis 1 mentions "the firmament" nine times. What is the firmament? According to Hebrew cosmology, the firmament is a solid structure which separates the oceans of heaven from the atmosphere of the sky, and thus keeps the oceans of heaven from falling on us. 4 If this were accurate, then the mission to the moon would have needed a submarine. There are floodgates in heaven which open up and pour these oceans into the clouds. 5 The clouds are like bags that transport rain for distribution. It is considered miraculous that the clouds don"t burst like water balloons under the weight of the water. 6 Other types of weather, such as snow, are contained in the warehouses of heaven. 7 From these absurdities, it is clear that the Hebrews did not understand evaporation, and therefore invented other means to explain precipitation.

Their understanding of basic astronomy was also entirely lacking. The Bible says that the stars are actually angels who live inside the firmament. 8 Thus, since rainwater is above the firmament, and stars are within it, rainwater is right above the stars. The stars are not light years away in outer space. No, they are right here close to home shining in our rainwater! The firmament rotates around the earth, and with it, all the heavenly bodies. Therefore, the sun, the moon, and the stars all rotate around the earth, 9 contrary to Copernicus. The firmament, together with all its heavenly bodies, is supported by pillars in the sky. 10 If this were true, there would be a lot more plane crashes.

Their understanding of geography was equally flawed. According to Psalms, in the beginning, water covered the entire earth, but God set a compass on the ocean to draw a circle where dry land would be. The waters receded at his command, and so dry land was born. 11 Notice that there is only one continent, and that it is in the shape of a circle. This is what is meant by the passage "God sits on the circle of the earth." 12 Many creationists quote this passage in order to "prove" that the Bible told us the earth is round. Thus, they reason, the Bible must have been divinely inspired, because everybody else at that time thought the earth was flat. But "the circle of the earth" has nothing to do with the earth being a sphere as we know it today. Rather, the term applies to the circle of dry land, a continent on the earth, not the whole planet earth. 13

Their understanding of what's inside the earth was also wrong. They believed that the circle of dry land is supported by pillars under the dry land. 14 Underneath the dry land, the Hebrews supposed an underworld called sheol housed the dead. 15 They thought ocean water extends around the bottom of the land. These waters below the land were believed to seep into the underworld. 16 From the underworld, water was thought to gush up in springs, thus making rivers and lakes. 17 These springs are "the fountains of the deep." 18 Thus, aquifers come from ocean water.

Genesis 1 is hopelessly inseparable from this pervasively ignorant and unscientific cosmology, for it presupposes that these absurdities are correct. We can see this from the statements within it, such as the stars being in the firmament, the waters being above the firmament, the dry land appearing after being submerged in the void of the deep " all of these notions stem from the erroneous cosmology described above. Thus, any literal interpretation of Genesis 1 is entirely untenable and patently absurd. This is true regardless of whether or not evolution is a viable alternative. Even if Charlie Darwin were entirely wrong, we must still discard all literal interpretations of Genesis 1.

How many creationists insist that rainwater resides above the stars, or that springs come from the ocean, or that the sun revolves around the earth? Not many. Therefore, since they do not insist upon a literal reading for these points, then why do they insist that "every living creature brings forth after its own kind," 19 as Genesis 1 says? For if they admit that Genesis 1 is wrong about astronomy, geology, geography, oceanography, meteorology, and every other branch of science, as indeed they tacitly already do, then why do they insist that Genesis 1 is correct about biology? Thus, they are inconsistent in their application of the literalist doctrine, for they have singled out one branch of science to attack, namely evolutionary biology, while tacitly admitting Genesis 1 is literally wrong about all other branches of science."

So how can you say anything about the bible which is a collection of stories to stroke nationalism by a backward tribal group containing anything scientific.
DavidHenson
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9/1/2015 8:37:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 6:40:50 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews were a tribal people and never reached any level of civilization compared to their neighbouring Egyptians, Mesopotamia, Babylon, India or China. They were a divided tribal group and repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their neighbours who were more powerful and advanced.
The jews never contributed anything in the field of science,mathematics, medicine or knowledge and were overshadowed by their neighbours.

That is a really vague and unsubstantiated, not to mention inaccurate and irrelevant. It sounds good, but it's moot. If I wanted to pursue it I would ask you what their neighbors had contributed and point out some of the remarkable things the ancient Jews did as recorded in the Bible, like describe the earth as spherical 700 years before science, or the description of the water cycle, hygenic laws which modern medical science has only just recently caught up with, and then tell you that it is irrelevant to the discussion.


Exodus never happened and the walls of Jericho did not come a-tumbling down. How archaeologists are shaking Israel to its biblical foundations.

Again, off topic. Also inaccurate, at least in the case of the Exodus, which Manetho, an ancient Egyptian Priest and Historian, who hated the Jews and who created the historical foundation of modern history through his Kings list which we still use today, mentions the Jews entering, and leaving Egypt. He also mentions 3 or 4 other Egyptian historians of his time now unknown to us who have the same conclusion that there was an Exodus.

Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."

"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom."

Jerusalem was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire. These findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades.

Archaology is subject to interpretation just as Scripture is.

Did you want start a new topic or completely destroy this one. God created the Earth twice.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Harikrish
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9/1/2015 8:59:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/1/2015 8:37:29 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 9/1/2015 6:40:50 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews were a tribal people and never reached any level of civilization compared to their neighbouring Egyptians, Mesopotamia, Babylon, India or China. They were a divided tribal group and repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their neighbours who were more powerful and advanced.
The jews never contributed anything in the field of science,mathematics, medicine or knowledge and were overshadowed by their neighbours.

That is a really vague and unsubstantiated, not to mention inaccurate and irrelevant. It sounds good, but it's moot. If I wanted to pursue it I would ask you what their neighbors had contributed and point out some of the remarkable things the ancient Jews did as recorded in the Bible, like describe the earth as spherical 700 years before science, or the description of the water cycle, hygenic laws which modern medical science has only just recently caught up with, and then tell you that it is irrelevant to the discussion.

There were older civilizations exploring astrology and the planetary system before the Jews turned their attention skywards. The Jews didn't even know the arrival of Jesus when other countries sent their Magi with presents to greet Jesus.

Exodus never happened and the walls of Jericho did not come a-tumbling down. How archaeologists are shaking Israel to its biblical foundations.

Again, off topic. Also inaccurate, at least in the case of the Exodus, which Manetho, an ancient Egyptian Priest and Historian, who hated the Jews and who created the historical foundation of modern history through his Kings list which we still use today, mentions the Jews entering, and leaving Egypt. He also mentions 3 or 4 other Egyptian historians of his time now unknown to us who have the same conclusion that there was an Exodus.

Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."

"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom."

Jerusalem was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire. These findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades.


Archaology is subject to interpretation just as Scripture is.

Archeology looks for hard evidence not unsubstantiated myths.

Did you want start a new topic or completely destroy this one. God created the Earth twice.

How could creation have taken place when the creation of Adam is traced to 4004 BC Ussher and a group of theologians and scholars in 1630 performed calculations and created a study that reported the creation of Adam on October 23, 4004 BC at 9:00 am and lived until 3074 BC.
There were older more advanced civilizations flourishing at that time. The Jews were late comers and can only trace their genealogy back to Adam the first Jew.