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Why do gays need to listen to your God?

Jovian
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9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.

So, what really is the problem with religious anti-LGBT people and LGBT? Is there some exceptionalism implied in this modern rule about not having to be religious through force? Or are they only referring to religious gays when saying this?
tstor
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9/2/2015 10:42:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)
Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?
No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman. So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them. Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.
On what world? Take Westboro Baptist Church for example, they hate gays and people of other faiths. They hate Muslims, Hindus, etc. Plenty of Christians hate people of other faiths.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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9/2/2015 11:23:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 10:42:58 PM, tstor wrote:
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)
Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

Why is it sinful to you?

http://www.patheos.com...

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?
No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman. So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them. Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

Gay people and others haven't been requiring possibility to commit marriage until like recently. Yet they have been hated. I seldomly hear the topic marriage come up when religious gay haters spew their hatred about gays anyway. Heck, even you started this post by spitting at homosexuality, without a single mentioning of same-sex marriage. So you are the living proof of how this thing is more about marriage.

Plus, even if all religious gay haters would have the marriage thing as the reason of hate, they shouldn't only attack gays since not all gays care about being able to marry and that there is also a probably bigger amount of straight people advocating gay marriage for the sake of human rights.

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.
On what world? Take Westboro Baptist Church for example, they hate gays and people of other faiths. They hate Muslims, Hindus, etc. Plenty of Christians hate people of other faiths.

Appealing to WBC is quite much nitpicking since that church maximum could have had 100 members throughout history. I don't really know where to search to get credible sources whether if it's common if many people hate everything outside their own faith. Neither can you, so far at least. I can only tell from my own experiences, even though it's a fallacious anecdotal evidence. Almost every religious person I've seen, be them Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc, have had respect for other religions. While some Muslims and Hindus hate each other for example, that does not imply that they also hate every other faith on the whole planet.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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9/2/2015 11:42:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 11:23:30 PM, Jovian wrote:

Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

Why is it sinful to you?

http://www.patheos.com...
Because the Bible plainly speaks about homosexuality:

Jesus-
Mark 7:21: "For it is from within, out of a person"s heart, that evil thoughts come"sexual immorality, theft, murder,"

Paul-
Romans 1:26, 27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

1 Corinthians 6:9: "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men"

1 Timothy 1:10: " for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers"and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

However, these words are from Paul (Saul) and not Jesus. Though let's read what Paul says:
"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." (Galatians 1:11-12)

No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman. So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them. Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

Gay people and others haven't been requiring possibility to commit marriage until like recently. Yet they have been hated. I seldomly hear the topic marriage come up when religious gay haters spew their hatred about gays anyway. Heck, even you started this post by spitting at homosexuality, without a single mentioning of same-sex marriage. So you are the living proof of how this thing is more about marriage.
Spitting at homosexuality? I pointed out an obvious fact. Homosexuality is a sin. That does not mean I hate gay people. That also does not mean that I wish to restrict their rights as people. There are plenty of ignorant Christians who outright hate gays, but you can find ignorant Christians anywhere. I can find some that hate blacks.

Plus, even if all religious gay haters would have the marriage thing as the reason of hate, they shouldn't only attack gays since not all gays care about being able to marry and that there is also a probably bigger amount of straight people advocating gay marriage for the sake of human rights.
And some do attack both gay and straight people over the issue of marriage.

Appealing to WBC is quite much nitpicking since that church maximum could have had 100 members throughout history. I don't really know where to search to get credible sources whether if it's common if many people hate everything outside their own faith. Neither can you, so far at least. I can only tell from my own experiences, even though it's a fallacious anecdotal evidence. Almost every religious person I've seen, be them Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc, have had respect for other religions. While some Muslims and Hindus hate each other for example, that does not imply that they also hate every other faith on the whole planet.
It might depend on where you live. I live in the Bible Belt and there is a lot of hostility towards other religions. Have you not seen the anti-Muslim rallies and crimes happening in the US and in Europe? Not all of it has to do with religion, but a lot of it does. Christians are regularly persecuted in many countries as well.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Jovian
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9/3/2015 12:41:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 11:42:51 PM, tstor wrote:
At 9/2/2015 11:23:30 PM, Jovian wrote:

Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

Why is it sinful to you?

http://www.patheos.com...
Because the Bible plainly speaks about homosexuality:

Jesus-
Mark 7:21: "For it is from within, out of a person"s heart, that evil thoughts come"sexual immorality, theft, murder,"

Paul-
Romans 1:26, 27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

1 Corinthians 6:9: "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men"

1 Timothy 1:10: " for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers"and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

However, these words are from Paul (Saul) and not Jesus. Though let's read what Paul says:
"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." (Galatians 1:11-12)

For going slightly off-topic, I would like to see if you agree with these aswell:

1. Ban against eating shellfish and pork. If no and with the answer "this was just a seasonal thing, since it was dangerous to eat these at this time because of trichinella", why couldn't the forbid against homosexuality also have been a seasonal thing? As I see it, the ban was probably made because that the Israelites, and many other people back then, had a threat over themselves, hence needed a big army and big population in general, which is achieved by high birth rates, which they didn't want to risk to prevent through allowing homosexuality, because they perhaps thought that all men were latent bisexuals who were able to become homosexual if there wasn't an oppression over them.
2. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (just checking how literal your interpretation is)
3. Mark 13:25 (same)


No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman. So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them. Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

Gay people and others haven't been requiring possibility to commit marriage until like recently. Yet they have been hated. I seldomly hear the topic marriage come up when religious gay haters spew their hatred about gays anyway. Heck, even you started this post by spitting at homosexuality, without a single mentioning of same-sex marriage. So you are the living proof of how this thing is more about marriage.
Spitting at homosexuality? I pointed out an obvious fact. Homosexuality is a sin. That does not mean I hate gay people. That also does not mean that I wish to restrict their rights as people. There are plenty of ignorant Christians who outright hate gays, but you can find ignorant Christians anywhere. I can find some that hate blacks.

You can't call it obvious fact, rather call it your opinion.

Plus, even if all religious gay haters would have the marriage thing as the reason of hate, they shouldn't only attack gays since not all gays care about being able to marry and that there is also a probably bigger amount of straight people advocating gay marriage for the sake of human rights.
And some do attack both gay and straight people over the issue of marriage.

Appealing to WBC is quite much nitpicking since that church maximum could have had 100 members throughout history. I don't really know where to search to get credible sources whether if it's common if many people hate everything outside their own faith. Neither can you, so far at least. I can only tell from my own experiences, even though it's a fallacious anecdotal evidence. Almost every religious person I've seen, be them Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc, have had respect for other religions. While some Muslims and Hindus hate each other for example, that does not imply that they also hate every other faith on the whole planet.
It might depend on where you live. I live in the Bible Belt and there is a lot of hostility towards other religions. Have you not seen the anti-Muslim rallies and crimes happening in the US and in Europe? Not all of it has to do with religion, but a lot of it does. Christians are regularly persecuted in many countries as well.

I live in Europe. These anti-Muslim rallies is more a sign of that these protesters feel that Islam is taking over Europe/USA. It's mostly not about religion at all. What I was saying in my original post was that most religious people have not been people who hate all other faiths. Anti-Muslim-immigration people are seldomly of this category.

Going to bed now. I'll return to the discussion tomorrow after work, as for the perfect world discussion I'm having with you in another thread.
tstor
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9/3/2015 12:52:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:41:35 AM, Jovian wrote:

For going slightly off-topic, I would like to see if you agree with these aswell:

1. Ban against eating shellfish and pork. If no and with the answer "this was just a seasonal thing, since it was dangerous to eat these at this time because of trichinella", why couldn't the forbid against homosexuality also have been a seasonal thing? As I see it, the ban was probably made because that the Israelites, and many other people back then, had a threat over themselves, hence needed a big army and big population in general, which is achieved by high birth rates, which they didn't want to risk to prevent through allowing homosexuality, because they perhaps thought that all men were latent bisexuals who were able to become homosexual if there wasn't an oppression over them.
I can only assume you are referencing the dietary laws in the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures? If so, then you should realize that those are no longer binding on Christians:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:14)

The dietary laws were not phased out simply because they became dated.

2. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (just checking how literal your interpretation is)
Read my above response about the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures

3. Mark 13:25 (same)
What are you exactly taking issue with in this verse?

Spitting at homosexuality? I pointed out an obvious fact. Homosexuality is a sin. That does not mean I hate gay people. That also does not mean that I wish to restrict their rights as people. There are plenty of ignorant Christians who outright hate gays, but you can find ignorant Christians anywhere. I can find some that hate blacks.

You can't call it obvious fact, rather call it your opinion.
There is no opinion about this. I showed you several verses that plainly state that homosexuality is a sin. For you to deny that is simply intellectual dishonesty.

It might depend on where you live. I live in the Bible Belt and there is a lot of hostility towards other religions. Have you not seen the anti-Muslim rallies and crimes happening in the US and in Europe? Not all of it has to do with religion, but a lot of it does. Christians are regularly persecuted in many countries as well.

I live in Europe. These anti-Muslim rallies is more a sign of that these protesters feel that Islam is taking over Europe/USA. It's mostly not about religion at all. What I was saying in my original post was that most religious people have not been people who hate all other faiths. Anti-Muslim-immigration people are seldomly of this category.
If they are taking issue with Muslims, then that is taking issue with a religion. Islam is a religion. You can quickly use Google to find endless articles about religious hostility and persecution across the globe.

Going to bed now. I'll return to the discussion tomorrow after work, as for the perfect world discussion I'm having with you in another thread.
Goodnight and God bless.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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9/3/2015 10:05:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.

So, what really is the problem with religious anti-LGBT people and LGBT? Is there some exceptionalism implied in this modern rule about not having to be religious through force? Or are they only referring to religious gays when saying this?

people of faith tell like to share the gospel with others, I don't know any believers personally who go out looking for gays to preach too, thought we see more and more gays targetting Christian businesses...
the reason why believers want to spread the gospel is to see everyone saved, the fact that many sins are agianst God's intentions is not the fault of the believers...
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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9/3/2015 12:43:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone.

No, it's not. That's not "hate".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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9/3/2015 1:12:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

do you think incest is ok, even gay incest??
DanMGTOW
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9/3/2015 2:10:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 10:42:58 PM, tstor wrote:
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)
Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?
No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman. So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them. Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.
On what world? Take Westboro Baptist Church for example, they hate gays and people of other faiths. They hate Muslims, Hindus, etc. Plenty of Christians hate people of other faiths.

it's too bad that so many christians are too afraid of the laws of man to follow the laws of GOD. in dueteronomy under the law being gay was an abomination, and was a crime worthy of death. why don't you and your church follow the laws of your GOD?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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9/3/2015 2:59:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/2/2015 10:42:58 PM, tstor wrote:
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone. (And no. I don't imply in any way here that most religious people hate gays)
Is it really hateful to think that homosexuality is sinful? If it is, then call me a 'gayhater'.

But the thing is, it's a very flawed statement. Most LGBT people are not religious (http://www.pewresearch.org...). So, why do these religious gay haters push their religion onto gays?
No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman.

Just one? Depending on where you look in the Bible, that is a bit fluid. One man and... women of varying number is more accurate, but that is of course kept on the DL.

So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them.

So then Christians are pushing something on to some one else. Their definition of what a marriage is on others.

Some Christians, like myself, realize that earthly definitions have no baring on heavenly ones. So the whole gay marriage idea is not really bothersome to me.

The thing is also that these religious gay haters today have a quite high respect for other religions. We can take Christians for example. Have you seen many Christians today who say "Islam/Hinduism/Sikhism/Jainism is against God's law!"? I at least see religious people adore people of other religions. In fact, I don't see many Christians (or other religious) who want to force atheists to live Christian either. So the argument that "Christians are told to spread the word" does not really work here.
On what world? Take Westboro Baptist Church for example, they hate gays and people of other faiths. They hate Muslims, Hindus, etc. Plenty of Christians hate people of other faiths.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
JJ50
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9/3/2015 3:31:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 1:12:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

do you think incest is ok, even gay incest??

Don't be anymore stupid than you are! What the heck has incest, which is wrong, got to with homosexuality?
Mobutu
Posts: 325
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9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?
JJ50
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9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!
graceofgod
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9/3/2015 4:03:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 3:31:47 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 1:12:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

do you think incest is ok, even gay incest??

Don't be anymore stupid than you are! What the heck has incest, which is wrong, got to with homosexuality?

why is incest wrong if it's to consenting adults in love??
Mobutu
Posts: 325
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9/3/2015 4:14:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

Homosexual feeling is not the same as homosexual acts. Also it is not normal and as yet cannot be cured. However through accepting the word of god and help from fellow believers you can help rid yourself of such desires although not fully.
graceofgod
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9/3/2015 4:42:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

so why is incest not perfectly normal or gay incest???
JJ50
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9/3/2015 4:45:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 4:42:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

so why is incest not perfectly normal or gay incest???

What has incest got to do with homosexuality?
graceofgod
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9/3/2015 4:48:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 4:45:06 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:42:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

so why is incest not perfectly normal or gay incest???

What has incest got to do with homosexuality?

you claim homosexuality is normal because it is two consenting adults who love each other, so is incest or even gay incest so why do you thing incest is wrong??
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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9/3/2015 5:18:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

I'm curious, what exactly is it that homosexuals do that heterosexual's don't that would constitute a sick perversion?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mobutu
Posts: 325
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9/3/2015 5:41:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 5:18:04 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

I'm curious, what exactly is it that homosexuals do that heterosexual's don't that would constitute a sick perversion?

Homosexual acts are according to Leviticus 18:22 "an abomination".
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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9/3/2015 5:47:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 5:41:19 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:18:04 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

I'm curious, what exactly is it that homosexuals do that heterosexual's don't that would constitute a sick perversion?

Homosexual acts are according to Leviticus 18:22 "an abomination".

That's not what I asked you, again, what exactly is it that homosexuals do that heterosexual's don't that would constitute a sick perversion?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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9/3/2015 6:43:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 4:48:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:45:06 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:42:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

so why is incest not perfectly normal or gay incest???

What has incest got to do with homosexuality?

you claim homosexuality is normal because it is two consenting adults who love each other, so is incest or even gay incest so why do you thing incest is wrong??

This one should be fairly easy to see.

[Legal] homosexuality occurs between consenting adults who are capable of recognizing the risks and consequences of their actions, which are limited to those participants.

Incest, however, poses a greatly increased risk of birth defects so the risks and consequences are not limited to the participants. Thus, this act is placing the potential for inflicting considerable and life-long harm to another person who is obviously unable to consent and accept the risks.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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9/3/2015 7:28:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 2:59:29 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman.

Just one? Depending on where you look in the Bible, that is a bit fluid. One man and... women of varying number is more accurate, but that is of course kept on the DL.
Show me verses in the Greek scriptures that promote polygamy.


So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them.

So then Christians are pushing something on to some one else. Their definition of what a marriage is on others.
To the ones who see a problem with gay marriage, yes.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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9/3/2015 7:29:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 2:10:56 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:

it's too bad that so many christians are too afraid of the laws of man to follow the laws of GOD. in dueteronomy under the law being gay was an abomination, and was a crime worthy of death. why don't you and your church follow the laws of your GOD?
Because laws in the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures that pertained to Israelites within Israel have no baring on the teachings of the Greek scriptures that everyone is supposed to abide by. Consider this idea in light of these verses:
Romans 2:12: "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
Galatians 3:23: "Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed."
Galatians 4:5: "to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship."
Romans 6:14: "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
Galatians 6:18: "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Jovian
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9/3/2015 8:23:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:52:45 AM, tstor wrote:
3. Mark 13:25 (same)
What are you exactly taking issue with in this verse?

If you do possess a horse sense of astronomy, you must know quite well that stars can't "fall"? In fact, in one aspect they are already doing this and have always done, since there is no up and down in universe and that everything in the universe is moving to one certain direction. So, seems like Jesus already is here.

Spitting at homosexuality? I pointed out an obvious fact. Homosexuality is a sin. That does not mean I hate gay people. That also does not mean that I wish to restrict their rights as people. There are plenty of ignorant Christians who outright hate gays, but you can find ignorant Christians anywhere. I can find some that hate blacks.

You can't call it obvious fact, rather call it your opinion.
There is no opinion about this. I showed you several verses that plainly state that homosexuality is a sin. For you to deny that is simply intellectual dishonesty.

And there are several religions in East Asia which have no problems with homosexuality. They could just as well backlash you right here with their "absolute truth that never shouldn't be questioned".

Also, your appealing to the Bible goes around in circles, since you can't prove it's authority more than that the authors and their fans said it was true. If JK Rowling and her fans started saying this about Harry Potter, would those books also be true?


It might depend on where you live. I live in the Bible Belt and there is a lot of hostility towards other religions. Have you not seen the anti-Muslim rallies and crimes happening in the US and in Europe? Not all of it has to do with religion, but a lot of it does. Christians are regularly persecuted in many countries as well.

I live in Europe. These anti-Muslim rallies is more a sign of that these protesters feel that Islam is taking over Europe/USA. It's mostly not about religion at all. What I was saying in my original post was that most religious people have not been people who hate all other faiths. Anti-Muslim-immigration people are seldomly of this category.
If they are taking issue with Muslims, then that is taking issue with a religion. Islam is a religion. You can quickly use Google to find endless articles about religious hostility and persecution across the globe.

Yes. But the protesters are mainly atheists or seculars who see another religion coming to, according to them, take over, and then they don't like this. I see several of them being tolerant to other religions though. They often say that they are okay with all religions if people just had them as a hobby.

This has drifted away a little from what I implied in OP. Yes religious persecution has always existed. But my thing was that religious gay haters hate homosexuality on the grounds of their own religious laws, and thus they want gays to become heterosexual. While they at the same time have no programs what so ever to convert people of other faiths. I saw this as hypocritical. Divide "Christians in US who totally disrespect non-Christians and want to start massive programs to convert them " la medieval age" with "Christians in US who totally disrespect gays and want them to stop being gay". Do you think the outcoming fraction will be 1? Not really.

At 9/3/2015 10:05:36 AM, graceofgod wrote:
people of faith tell like to share the gospel with others, I don't know any believers personally who go out looking for gays to preach too, thought we see more and more gays targetting Christian businesses...
the reason why believers want to spread the gospel is to see everyone saved, the fact that many sins are agianst God's intentions is not the fault of the believers...

There is not as much efforts from Christians to convert non-Christians as it is from Christians to advocate detest over living gay though. But I guess Christians wouldn't like to start advocating conversions of non-Christians again, since that would make these Christians look like people from the medieval age.

At 9/3/2015 4:48:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
you claim homosexuality is normal because it is two consenting adults who love each other, so is incest or even gay incest so why do you thing incest is wrong??

If it is done for the sake of reproduction, there was a very good answer to your question

At 9/3/2015 6:43:18 PM, Chaosism wrote:
Incest, however, poses a greatly increased risk of birth defects so the risks and consequences are not limited to the participants. Thus, this act is placing the potential for inflicting considerable and life-long harm to another person who is obviously unable to consent and accept the risks.

If it is not for the sake of reproduction, and if it is between two consenting adults, well that would render it okay. Or do you want to interfere in what consenting adults do in their own private life? That would be icky though...wanting to steer over other peoples' genitals...

Seriously, you gay haters sleeping slope arguments are annoying. "If we should accept homosexuality, should we also start to accept pedophilia?!?!?!?!" is a popular one. Only idiots would think that analogy would be correct though.

At 9/3/2015 5:41:19 PM, Mobutu wrote:
Homosexual acts are according to Leviticus 18:22 "an abomination".

At some times, OT is only for the Jews to follow, at some times, it can be perfectly followed by Christians? Decide. And as I have said before, there are thousands of religions in the world who have different opinions. Why is yours right?

At 9/3/2015 12:43:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 9/2/2015 8:52:53 PM, Jovian wrote:
So, the thing that some religious gayhaters say "Homosexuality is against God's law!" is quite well known to everyone.

No, it's not. That's not "hate".

What is it then? An evidence of a tolerance?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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9/3/2015 8:38:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:43:18 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:48:15 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:45:06 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 4:42:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:39:51 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 3:36:13 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/3/2015 10:34:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Only sick bigots see anything wrong with homosexuality. Jesus could have been gay for all we know, as he had a specific disciple whom he loved, according to the Bible.

How am I a sick bigot for describing homosexual acts as a sick perversion?

You are definitely very sick and evil if you think loving someone of the same sex is wrong, it is totally normal!

so why is incest not perfectly normal or gay incest???

What has incest got to do with homosexuality?

you claim homosexuality is normal because it is two consenting adults who love each other, so is incest or even gay incest so why do you thing incest is wrong??

This one should be fairly easy to see.

[Legal] homosexuality occurs between consenting adults who are capable of recognizing the risks and consequences of their actions, which are limited to those participants.

Incest, however, poses a greatly increased risk of birth defects so the risks and consequences are not limited to the participants. Thus, this act is placing the potential for inflicting considerable and life-long harm to another person who is obviously unable to consent and accept the risks.

capable of understanding the risks... like the lower life expectancy... so realising the risks makes it acceptable, that's very interesting..

so gay incest would be fine no risk of babies...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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9/3/2015 8:51:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 7:28:59 PM, tstor wrote:
At 9/3/2015 2:59:29 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

No one is pushing anything onto anyone. I believe that the big issue with gays and Christians was the definition of 'marriage'. A Christian believes that marriage is defined by God in the Bible as one man and one woman.

Just one? Depending on where you look in the Bible, that is a bit fluid. One man and... women of varying number is more accurate, but that is of course kept on the DL.
Show me verses in the Greek scriptures that promote polygamy.

I can't read Greek, bro. Anything I show you is going to be coming from the KJV, or otherwise translated. How many rules in managing polygamy can I quote that would aptly demonstrate that it was clearly not taboo, an acceptable (and accepted) practice?



So for a court to change the definition of marriage is somehow an abomination to them.

So then Christians are pushing something on to some one else. Their definition of what a marriage is on others.
To the ones who see a problem with gay marriage, yes.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
tstor
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9/3/2015 8:52:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 8:23:03 PM, Jovian wrote:

What are you exactly taking issue with in this verse?

If you do possess a horse sense of astronomy, you must know quite well that stars can't "fall"? In fact, in one aspect they are already doing this and have always done, since there is no up and down in universe and that everything in the universe is moving to one certain direction. So, seems like Jesus already is here.
That is really a moot point. Is it really out of the realm of God to make stars fall?

There is no opinion about this. I showed you several verses that plainly state that homosexuality is a sin. For you to deny that is simply intellectual dishonesty.

And there are several religions in East Asia which have no problems with homosexuality. They could just as well backlash you right here with their "absolute truth that never shouldn't be questioned".
I am not saying you have to believe it. This conversation has been about Christianity from the start. Do not change the variables of the topic to fit your argument. It is a fact that homosexuality is a sin in Christianity. Even if you are an atheist, you cannot deny it without being intellectually dishonest.

Also, your appealing to the Bible goes around in circles, since you can't prove it's authority more than that the authors and their fans said it was true. If JK Rowling and her fans started saying this about Harry Potter, would those books also be true?
I was not trying to prove the validity of the Bible to you. In fact, I that is not even the topic of your thread.

If they are taking issue with Muslims, then that is taking issue with a religion. Islam is a religion. You can quickly use Google to find endless articles about religious hostility and persecution across the globe.

Yes. But the protesters are mainly atheists or seculars who see another religion coming to, according to them, take over, and then they don't like this. I see several of them being tolerant to other religions though. They often say that they are okay with all religions if people just had them as a hobby.
Sure, but some are just hostile Christians. Atheists/agnostics have no relevance. Many Christians hate those of another faith and vice versa.

This has drifted away a little from what I implied in OP. Yes religious persecution has always existed. But my thing was that religious gay haters hate homosexuality on the grounds of their own religious laws, and thus they want gays to become heterosexual. While they at the same time have no programs what so ever to convert people of other faiths. I saw this as hypocritical. Divide "Christians in US who totally disrespect non-Christians and want to start massive programs to convert them " la medieval age" with "Christians in US who totally disrespect gays and want them to stop being gay". Do you think the outcoming fraction will be 1? Not really.
So your problem is that there are no programs to convert gays? There are plenty. Take a look:
https://en.wikipedia.org...
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)