Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Christian Trinity debate

Tough
Posts: 167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/3/2015 4:44:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think this may interest people:

http://www.debate.org...

Still in voting period if that excites you.
Who is more terrifying; the one who is correct and successfully proves the liar wrong or the liar who successfully proves the correct one wrong?
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.
5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

3 in 1. Easy as pie
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,066
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/3/2015 8:59:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.
5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

3 in 1. Easy as pie

I like that ...
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.
SimplyAidan
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/3/2015 2:55:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He can speak through Jesus, and he does. However Jesus is a physical body. The Holy Spirit was meant to enter the hearts of all men if I'm not mistaken. The Holy Spirit is a spirit guide haha.
Also 3 in 1 is still 1. It's like this, mind body and spirit, 3 parts but still 1 person.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 1:41:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 2:55:15 PM, SimplyAidan wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He can speak through Jesus, and he does. However Jesus is a physical body. The Holy Spirit was meant to enter the hearts of all men if I'm not mistaken. The Holy Spirit is a spirit guide haha.
Also 3 in 1 is still 1. It's like this, mind body and spirit, 3 parts but still 1 person.

I'm not interested in bare assertions. My point was that the analogy was inapt. It failed on every level. You have said nothing to counter that other than reciting dogma.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Sooner
Posts: 1,012
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 4:11:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
My virtual self ascended within the matrix to be beside me here. But we and me are still simply me.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 4:40:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM, Sooner wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

No, I've pointed out the obvious flaws in your analogy.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.

That makes absolutely no sense. Does your virtual self exist outside of the matrix or not? In your analogy, the programmer (god) had created a character to represent him in the virtual world. Now you are back-tracking to claim the virtual character had always existed even outside of that created world. How does that work? You guys will just say anything.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 4:44:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:11:40 AM, Sooner wrote:
My virtual self ascended within the matrix to be beside me here.

That's incoherent.

But we and me are still simply me.

No, it was only ever you and your virtual reality creation.
SimplyAidan
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 1:57:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:40:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM, Sooner wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

No, I've pointed out the obvious flaws in your analogy.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.

That makes absolutely no sense. Does your virtual self exist outside of the matrix or not? In your analogy, the programmer (god) had created a character to represent him in the virtual world. Now you are back-tracking to claim the virtual character had always existed even outside of that created world. How does that work? You guys will just say anything.

We're in a game, idk lets say habbo hotel since it's a avatar based game. So I my real self is sitting outside the computer making me God right, Jesus is my avatar, the holy spirit is the private message.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 2:13:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:57:46 PM, SimplyAidan wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:40:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM, Sooner wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

No, I've pointed out the obvious flaws in your analogy.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.

That makes absolutely no sense. Does your virtual self exist outside of the matrix or not? In your analogy, the programmer (god) had created a character to represent him in the virtual world. Now you are back-tracking to claim the virtual character had always existed even outside of that created world. How does that work? You guys will just say anything.

We're in a game, idk lets say habbo hotel since it's a avatar based game. So I my real self is sitting outside the computer making me God right, Jesus is my avatar, the holy spirit is the private message.

Can Jesus (your avatar) join you outside the computer? If the answer is no, then you are not a trinity. The avatar is just a proxy for you (a representation of you) in the game. You can't take it out of the game. The PM is from you.

The trinity doctrine is incoherent because Jesus is supposed to be the Logos, the Word, and was there at the beginning (whatever that means). He wasn't created as a proxy for God. So too the Holy Spirit. The failure of the analogy should be obvious.
SimplyAidan
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/4/2015 2:53:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:13:29 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 1:57:46 PM, SimplyAidan wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:40:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM, Sooner wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

No, I've pointed out the obvious flaws in your analogy.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.

That makes absolutely no sense. Does your virtual self exist outside of the matrix or not? In your analogy, the programmer (god) had created a character to represent him in the virtual world. Now you are back-tracking to claim the virtual character had always existed even outside of that created world. How does that work? You guys will just say anything.

We're in a game, idk lets say habbo hotel since it's a avatar based game. So I my real self is sitting outside the computer making me God right, Jesus is my avatar, the holy spirit is the private message.

Can Jesus (your avatar) join you outside the computer? If the answer is no, then you are not a trinity. The avatar is just a proxy for you (a representation of you) in the game. You can't take it out of the game. The PM is from you.

Actually if I was god, he would because he is me. I could talk to myself over the chatroom, as I've done before. Also, I could delete the character and remake it, or take it from public sight for an extended period of time.
The trinity doctrine is incoherent because Jesus is supposed to be the Logos, the Word, and was there at the beginning (whatever that means). He wasn't created as a proxy for God. So too the Holy Spirit. The failure of the analogy should be obvious.
You're really just not understanding it, Jesus was there in the beginning. It said that the Lord God walked in the forest with them. He also walked with Abraham. Also don't take the internet terms so litterally, it was used to explain. Also I didn't say I'm private messaging my self, if the holy spirit is akin to the pm then surely i'd be sending it to others, stuff that only they can hear. I may say the same stuff to different people but each get it privately.
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/5/2015 1:26:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:53:54 PM, SimplyAidan wrote:
At 9/4/2015 2:13:29 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 1:57:46 PM, SimplyAidan wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:40:19 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:09:08 AM, Sooner wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:02:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/3/2015 5:34:25 AM, Sooner wrote:
It's like this for me as far as logic:.
1)A programmer(The Father)
2)The programmer creates a simulated reality. (Our reality)
3)The programmer puts a character in the simulated reality and lives life as that character(Jesus) within the virtual world.
4)His virtual self prays and gets what he asks because they are one in the same. The programmer can give the virtual self anything as the programmer.

So Jesus never ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of God? Also, I thought Jesus was there at the beginning as the Logos (the Word). That doesn't sound even close to your analogy.

5)The programmer creates a program version of himself as a spirit. He speaks to all other characters through this spirit.

Why does he need two characters? Why not speak through Jesus?

3 in 1. Easy as pie

No, there is only one. The other two are just transient characters in a virtual reality which he created according to your analogy. They aren't part of or essential to the existence of the one. That would be a fail.

He's not using a computer. It's a simple way of explaining how there can be 3 versions of self. You've derailed and slid into the woods.

No, I've pointed out the obvious flaws in your analogy.

I am me. If I enter the "matrix", I am still me even if in a virtual world. And if another invisible version of myself speaks to someone in the matrix, I am still me. Three mes but one me. My virtual self was there with me in the beginning because he and I are one in the same. There is no matrix. Just making sure you caught that.

That makes absolutely no sense. Does your virtual self exist outside of the matrix or not? In your analogy, the programmer (god) had created a character to represent him in the virtual world. Now you are back-tracking to claim the virtual character had always existed even outside of that created world. How does that work? You guys will just say anything.

We're in a game, idk lets say habbo hotel since it's a avatar based game. So I my real self is sitting outside the computer making me God right, Jesus is my avatar, the holy spirit is the private message.

Can Jesus (your avatar) join you outside the computer? If the answer is no, then you are not a trinity. The avatar is just a proxy for you (a representation of you) in the game. You can't take it out of the game. The PM is from you.

Actually if I was god, he would because he is me. I could talk to myself over the chatroom, as I've done before.

Hmmm. No comment.

Also, I could delete the character and remake it, or take it from public sight for an extended period of time.

You misunderstand. I'm talking about the character coming out of the game and joining you in front of the computer.

The trinity doctrine is incoherent because Jesus is supposed to be the Logos, the Word, and was there at the beginning (whatever that means). He wasn't created as a proxy for God. So too the Holy Spirit. The failure of the analogy should be obvious.

You're really just not understanding it, Jesus was there in the beginning. It said that the Lord God walked in the forest with them. He also walked with Abraham. Also don't take the internet terms so litterally, it was used to explain.

It can't explain if it doesn't apply to Jesus who was there in the beginning.

Also I didn't say I'm private messaging my self, if the holy spirit is akin to the pm then surely i'd be sending it to others, stuff that only they can hear. I may say the same stuff to different people but each get it privately.

That's exactly what I meant. The PMs are from you. They're messages. They're not a part of you. The analogy fails again.