Total Posts:208|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Religious Mindset is Binding

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 11:49:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Are the non-religious more free than the religious? I know most Atheists say they felt liberated when they broke the shackles of religion. It's like the mindset you're in is a lot less restricted when you remove the authority of God, remove the rules and and divine commands, and other obligations.

Btw, this applies to all religions including Buddhism (it is a religion afterall) because even though there's no God, there are rules, precepts, and standards that makes one feel some sense of obligation. (The Buddhist ethical theory is separate from the rules it prescribes for monastic purposes.) I realized this about a month ago so I tried to distance myself from the religion of Buddhism and simply ascribe to philosophical Buddhism in which I acknowledge the truth of it's ontology, phenomenology, epistemology, moral theory, and psychology which none of this requires or demands obligation or adherence to specific practices. (Sam Harris holds this position as well; that Buddhism as a religion is bunk, but the philosophy of Buddha is true.)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 11:54:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 11:49:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are the non-religious more free than the religious? I know most Atheists say they felt liberated when they broke the shackles of religion. It's like the mindset you're in is a lot less restricted when you remove the authority of God, remove the rules and and divine commands, and other obligations.

It's almost an irrelevant consideration.

If God is real then you will want to be bound by his rules.
If God is not real then to be bound by his rules is lunacy.

It still comes down to God being real or not.

Some rules are good to follow.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:09:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 11:49:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are the non-religious more free than the religious? I know most Atheists say they felt liberated when they broke the shackles of religion. It's like the mindset you're in is a lot less restricted when you remove the authority of God, remove the rules and and divine commands, and other obligations.

Btw, this applies to all religions including Buddhism (it is a religion afterall) because even though there's no God, there are rules, precepts, and standards that makes one feel some sense of obligation. (The Buddhist ethical theory is separate from the rules it prescribes for monastic purposes.) I realized this about a month ago so I tried to distance myself from the religion of Buddhism and simply ascribe to philosophical Buddhism in which I acknowledge the truth of it's ontology, phenomenology, epistemology, moral theory, and psychology which none of this requires or demands obligation or adherence to specific practices. (Sam Harris holds this position as well; that Buddhism as a religion is bunk, but the philosophy of Buddha is true.)

Please explain the shackles? What rules or shackles restrict me opposed to an Atheist.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:15:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 11:54:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/9/2010 11:49:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are the non-religious more free than the religious? I know most Atheists say they felt liberated when they broke the shackles of religion. It's like the mindset you're in is a lot less restricted when you remove the authority of God, remove the rules and and divine commands, and other obligations.

It's almost an irrelevant consideration.

If God is real then you will want to be bound by his rules.
If God is not real then to be bound by his rules is lunacy.

It still comes down to God being real or not.

No, this is about the psychology of religion. Assuming that we can't know for sure whether God exists (I disagree but that is true of what most people think) then it comes down to a choice and how one should choose to live their life.

Whether God is real or not is actually irrelevant because most people don't know whether he's real or not and therefore his actual existence is irrelevant to their psychology.

Some rules are good to follow.

I disagree but that's besides the point. This about the mindset of being religious vs. the mindset of being free.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:20:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:09:53 PM, jharry wrote:
At 9/9/2010 11:49:19 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are the non-religious more free than the religious? I know most Atheists say they felt liberated when they broke the shackles of religion. It's like the mindset you're in is a lot less restricted when you remove the authority of God, remove the rules and and divine commands, and other obligations.

Btw, this applies to all religions including Buddhism (it is a religion afterall) because even though there's no God, there are rules, precepts, and standards that makes one feel some sense of obligation. (The Buddhist ethical theory is separate from the rules it prescribes for monastic purposes.) I realized this about a month ago so I tried to distance myself from the religion of Buddhism and simply ascribe to philosophical Buddhism in which I acknowledge the truth of it's ontology, phenomenology, epistemology, moral theory, and psychology which none of this requires or demands obligation or adherence to specific practices. (Sam Harris holds this position as well; that Buddhism as a religion is bunk, but the philosophy of Buddha is true.)

Please explain the shackles? What rules or shackles restrict me opposed to an Atheist.

None, you are not religious.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:24:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:15:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

I disagree but that's besides the point. This about the mindset of being religious vs. the mindset of being free.

I kill and eat your wife. Still disagree?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:28:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:09:53 PM, jharry wrote:
Please explain the shackles? What rules or shackles restrict me opposed to an Atheist.

You're a Christian so you can be convicted of thought crime. You can't even think the thought of coveting your neighbors possessions. Atheists are free to covet all they want.

Not to mention:

- You have a celestial authority hanging over your head everywhere of every moment and are being constantly watched and judged.

- You have to follow about over 200 laws that are commanded throughout the Bible. If you break them, you know where sinners go.

Because of this, you will feel restricted in every action you do because a higher authority will always be there controlling you with fear.

An Atheist has no celestial authority to dictate his actions. And when he feels compelled to refrain from doing a wrong action, he does so out of his own will to be good, not because an authority told him to.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:30:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:28:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

- You have to follow about over 200 laws that are commanded throughout the Bible. If you break them, you know where sinners go.

Actually there at least 620 laws that have to be followed.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:45:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think the biggest "shackles" are those places in which you would disagree with what God says.

like if he says "Stone Gay People" (or something else you naturally tend to disagree with)... and you don't really feel like doing such things...

then you are coerced to... and Your own sense of Right and Wrong is shackled by your "transcendent" delusions...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Brendan21
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:49:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
When I became Agnostic, I began to fear would it would be like to die. Just all blackness, or nothingness? Doesn't sound as fun as eternal paradise to me, but I find it more logical.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:51:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:28:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:09:53 PM, jharry wrote:
Please explain the shackles? What rules or shackles restrict me opposed to an Atheist.

You're a Christian so you can be convicted of thought crime. You can't even think the thought of coveting your neighbors possessions. Atheists are free to covet all they want.

Oh, so I would be able to do piety things without feeling guilty. Well actually I don't covet my neighbor's anything because I'm happy with what I got. So your example (as piety as it may be) doesn't change anything in my life. I was freed from that when I believed, I have all I need.


Not to mention:

- You have a celestial authority hanging over your head everywhere of every moment and are being constantly watched and judged.

Yes, kinda like a child. As I do with my children. But still a piety example.


- You have to follow about over 200 laws that are commanded throughout the Bible. If you break them, you know where sinners go.

Actually I abide by two. The 200 were for the Jews, not Christians. I understand your irrational reason for clinging to such a fallacy but they mean nothing in a real discussion, they may help you sleep at night but it is still a flawed argument.


Because of this, you will feel restricted in every action you do because a higher authority will always be there controlling you with fear.

No fear, love, A child sees rules and restrictions like this, until they grow up and realize what they truly are.


An Atheist has no celestial authority to dictate his actions. And when he feels compelled to refrain from doing a wrong action, he does so out of his own will to be good, not because an authority told him to.

So it is license to do bad things? Refrain from doing some wrong action, and if he doesn't decide with his own "will" that it is a wrong action then he can continue to do so. I think that will lead to prison my friend. Awesome, then you can have complete freedom in prison, there is no authority there.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 12:54:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

"[Belief in God] is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you - who must, indeed, subject you - to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life - I say, of your life - before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead. A celestial North Korea. Who wants this to be true? Who but a slave desires such a ghastly fate?" - Christopher Hitchens
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:14:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:30:26 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:28:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

- You have to follow about over 200 laws that are commanded throughout the Bible. If you break them, you know where sinners go.

Actually there at least 620 laws that have to be followed.
613, actually.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:15:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

Depends on what type of theist you are. There are some muslims who have to fast, wear a burka, etc. If youre a christian, maybe you go to church and put money in the collection bowl, every sunday of every week. Maybe you say a prayer before you eat, every dinner. Maybe you have to wait till youre married to have sex.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:24:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:15:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

Depends on what type of theist you are. There are some muslims who have to fast, wear a burka, etc. If youre a christian, maybe you go to church and put money in the collection bowl, every sunday of every week. Maybe you say a prayer before you eat, every dinner. Maybe you have to wait till youre married to have sex.

There's nothing wrong with that. I personally think everybody should wait. There's less risk factor involved then. There's also nothing wrong with donating money to charity or saying prayers before eating.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:30:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:24:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:15:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

Depends on what type of theist you are. There are some muslims who have to fast, wear a burka, etc. If youre a christian, maybe you go to church and put money in the collection bowl, every sunday of every week. Maybe you say a prayer before you eat, every dinner. Maybe you have to wait till youre married to have sex.

There's nothing wrong with that. I personally think everybody should wait. There's less risk factor involved then.

Not until full marriage. I agree with the temp marriage. If anything were to happen in that time they should be as obligated as any other married(or divorced) couple about it. I don't believe it should always be considered lifelong, and for temp marriages there should be a set end date.

There's also nothing wrong with donating money to charity

Giving money so a group can make the building more decorated and pretty, giving money to prests etc is not charity.

or saying prayers before eating.

No point in it. Waste of time. Perhaps being thankful for the food and getting closer with the family is good, but prayer has little/nothing to do with it.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:32:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:24:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:15:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

Depends on what type of theist you are. There are some muslims who have to fast, wear a burka, etc. If youre a christian, maybe you go to church and put money in the collection bowl, every sunday of every week. Maybe you say a prayer before you eat, every dinner. Maybe you have to wait till youre married to have sex.

There's nothing wrong with that. I personally think everybody should wait. There's less risk factor involved then. There's also nothing wrong with donating money to charity or saying prayers before eating.

This is all irrelevant. It doesn't matter if its rules have good results or not, its about the fact that religious rules are obligatory and binding.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:35:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:30:19 PM, lovelife wrote:

Not until full marriage. I agree with the temp marriage. If anything were to happen in that time they should be as obligated as any other married(or divorced) couple about it. I don't believe it should always be considered lifelong, and for temp marriages there should be a set end date.

The temporary marriage I explained to you about that Shi'a muslims practice? Yea, I generally agree with that too as long as it's not being misused and more people should adopt that concept. Too bad most people just go ahead and have sex regardless. One thing I really hate is one-night stands.

Giving money so a group can make the building more decorated and pretty, giving money to prests etc is not charity.

Alot of the money goes towards charity operations such as soup kitchens, etc. There are churches here that offer free meals to the poor and it's run by donations.

No point in it. Waste of time. Perhaps being thankful for the food and getting closer with the family is good, but prayer has little/nothing to do with it.

It's only pointless if you're an atheist who doesn't believe in God. Many people don't find it pointless.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:36:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:32:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:24:40 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:15:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 9/9/2010 12:21:30 PM, jharry wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I've asked this several times but for some reason I've never gotten an answer. Is it because there is no answer? Is this just hype? "Hey everyone! Come be free and give up your shackles!" Someone asks "what are the shackles?". "Uh. I don't know but it sounds so enlightened it has to be true!"

What gives?

Depends on what type of theist you are. There are some muslims who have to fast, wear a burka, etc. If youre a christian, maybe you go to church and put money in the collection bowl, every sunday of every week. Maybe you say a prayer before you eat, every dinner. Maybe you have to wait till youre married to have sex.

There's nothing wrong with that. I personally think everybody should wait. There's less risk factor involved then. There's also nothing wrong with donating money to charity or saying prayers before eating.

This is all irrelevant. It doesn't matter if its rules have good results or not, its about the fact that religious rules are obligatory and binding.

Exactly. I'm non-religious and I wouldn't want to have sex in a non-commited relationship. I have no problem giving my money to those that actually need it, and I have no problem saying thanksgiving. <other than the fact that when said aloud everything sounds corny, pre-rehearsed, and obligatory, not actual truth)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:36:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I tend not to think about the rules so much, but i am unsure if i an considered religious by those here, despite my church attendance. I have found that when i am "doing the right thing" - helping people, not hurting people, my life is better. I also have far less fear in my life than when i was agnostic. I have an overall greater sense of confidence, and it's not just that life after death thing, because i honestly don't know what happens, but more about my place in the world.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:46:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:35:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:30:19 PM, lovelife wrote:

Not until full marriage. I agree with the temp marriage. If anything were to happen in that time they should be as obligated as any other married(or divorced) couple about it. I don't believe it should always be considered lifelong, and for temp marriages there should be a set end date.

The temporary marriage I explained to you about that Shi'a muslims practice? Yea, I generally agree with that too as long as it's not being misused and more people should adopt that concept.

Misused how? I think people should be allowed to marry how ever many people they wish until they find the right one.

Too bad most people just go ahead and have sex regardless.

I don't see a problem if its their choice. Just want a temp option.

One thing I really hate is one-night stands.


Your choice I suppose lol.

Giving money so a group can make the building more decorated and pretty, giving money to prests etc is not charity.

Alot of the money goes towards charity operations such as soup kitchens, etc. There are churches here that offer free meals to the poor and it's run by donations.


No church I've ever seen does that. One church used the money to buy a bunch of food for a big bible study 3 day sleep over.

No point in it. Waste of time. Perhaps being thankful for the food and getting closer with the family is good, but prayer has little/nothing to do with it.

It's only pointless if you're an atheist who doesn't believe in God. Many people don't find it pointless.

Even some christians find it pointless.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:49:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:36:38 PM, innomen wrote:
I tend not to think about the rules so much,

If you believe in a higher, celestial authority, shouldn't you care about his rules?

but i am unsure if i an considered religious by those here, despite my church attendance. I have found that when i am "doing the right thing" - helping people, not hurting people, my life is better.

You see, that's Atheist morality. You are moral for your own sake, not because of divine command.

I also have far less fear in my life than when i was agnostic.

Why?

For me as a former believer, I was more scared of being convicted by by a wrathful God.

I have an overall greater sense of confidence, and it's not just that life after death thing, because i honestly don't know what happens, but more about my place in the world.

I feel the same way with my Atheist world view.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:55:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:46:59 PM, lovelife wrote:

Misused how? I think people should be allowed to marry how ever many people they wish until they find the right one.

I mean misused as in being used for one-night stands("married" the person and "divorced" them the next day) and we all know how muslims are towards sexual activity...

No church I've ever seen does that. One church used the money to buy a bunch of food for a big bible study 3 day sleep over.

I don't know how many churches you have seen then, but I'm guessing not alot. My town could almost be considered the Bible Belt of British Columbia.

Even some christians find it pointless.

Well those are lukewarm Christians, which seems to be the majority these days anyway. Anyway, I had a friend whose family prayed before every meal. I always found it awkward going over there for dinner since I wasn't a Christian.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:55:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Do you two have to derail every thread?

The topic is NOT about whether religious rules are good or bad.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:55:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:49:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:36:38 PM, innomen wrote:
I tend not to think about the rules so much,

If you believe in a higher, celestial authority, shouldn't you care about his rules?
Because i am unconvinced that they are His rules. Those based in spiritual principles yes others are clearly the manufacture of man.

but i am unsure if i an considered religious by those here, despite my church attendance. I have found that when i am "doing the right thing" - helping people, not hurting people, my life is better.

You see, that's Atheist morality. You are moral for your own sake, not because of divine command.
But i believe my morality comes from God. I believe in objective morality that is God based.

I also have far less fear in my life than when i was agnostic.

Why?
More alone really, and felt some what uncertain where i belonged. There was a constant uneasiness and discontentedness; like i never belonged or fit in anywhere. After great painful reflection i understood my fear and i found spiritual solutions throughout.

For me as a former believer, I was more scared of being convicted by by a wrathful God.
silliness.

I have an overall greater sense of confidence, and it's not just that life after death thing, because i honestly don't know what happens, but more about my place in the world.

I feel the same way with my Atheist world view.
Alone and cold. No purpose no point.

My faith works for me, but faith is a gift that i don't think you have been given, at least yet.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:56:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If he was agnostic and now believes, I think his fear might be about the mystery of death, and how it was answered with religion.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:58:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:55:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:46:59 PM, lovelife wrote:

Misused how? I think people should be allowed to marry how ever many people they wish until they find the right one.

I mean misused as in being used for one-night stands("married" the person and "divorced" them the next day) and we all know how muslims are towards sexual activity...


Well thats why I said a set time, and it could either be renewed, made permenant, or stop existing after that time.

No church I've ever seen does that. One church used the money to buy a bunch of food for a big bible study 3 day sleep over.

I don't know how many churches you have seen then, but I'm guessing not alot. My town could almost be considered the Bible Belt of British Columbia.


Bible belt of the US. I've been to a good 15.

Even some christians find it pointless.

Well those are lukewarm Christians, which seems to be the majority these days anyway. Anyway, I had a friend whose family prayed before every meal. I always found it awkward going over there for dinner since I wasn't a Christian.

Perhaps. My friend was catholic and prayed before every meal. She's now a satanist.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 1:59:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:56:13 PM, lovelife wrote:
If he was agnostic and now believes, I think his fear might be about the mystery of death, and how it was answered with religion.

Nope, i've never been afraid to die, even when i was agnostic. Actually i was REALLY okay with death.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/9/2010 2:08:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/9/2010 1:59:02 PM, innomen wrote:
At 9/9/2010 1:56:13 PM, lovelife wrote:
If he was agnostic and now believes, I think his fear might be about the mystery of death, and how it was answered with religion.

Nope, i've never been afraid to die, even when i was agnostic. Actually i was REALLY okay with death.

Oh, well I just tried to understand. I see what you mean tho about being alone, and I see how religion comforts people. It personally does the opposite for me, but as long as differences don't negatively impact people I wouldn't call anyone wrong or bad for theirs.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave