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Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.
To believe is to know nothing.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
why label yourself at all be who you are, if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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9/15/2015 10:37:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
why label yourself at all be who you are,
Makes perfect sense and I'm surprised by that, to say the least.
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...
And then you go and appeal to fantasy and ruin it all.
tch tch
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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9/15/2015 11:12:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

If you don't feel comfortable with a label, you shouldn't use it on yourself. I am sure that you can find a term somewhere to describe your position somewhere. In the meantime, I don't think it's a good idea to rush to put a label on yourself.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/15/2015 12:06:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I don't know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid.

Don't sweat gods, Impartial.

The proposition theologians want you to accept is that the revelations claimed by their received traditions correctly identify an engaged, intelligent, metaphysical agency worthy of your submission.

That has nothing to do with gods, and everything to do with the evidence, accountability and transparency associated with their claims.

You can reject every theology in the world as ignorant, deluded, inadequate and immoral without saying anything about how the universe came about, simply by pointing out that ignorant, deluded, inadequate and immoral theology is a routine product of human culture, and that no theology can demonstrate independently that it offers any more wise, insightful, comprehensive and benign a life than that undertaken by a self-examined nontheist with a good education, acting kindly.

If you call yourself an atheist -- living without gods -- simply because there's no compelling evidence that living with them creates a better life, then I for one will not say you're wrong to do so. :)

I hope that may help. :)
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:09:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
why label yourself at all be who you are, if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

Perhaps so that other people who share my views can identify with me. I doubt I'm the only one. Heaven sounds rather boring to me.
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:13:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 11:12:52 AM, joetheripper117 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

If you don't feel comfortable with a label, you shouldn't use it on yourself. I am sure that you can find a term somewhere to describe your position somewhere. In the meantime, I don't think it's a good idea to rush to put a label on yourself.

I'm not rushing, I just thought there'd be a term out there already for what I consider to be the most rational and intellectually honest positio, which is essentially what we all strive for.
To believe is to know nothing.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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9/15/2015 3:29:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:09:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
why label yourself at all be who you are, if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

Perhaps so that other people who share my views can identify with me. I doubt I'm the only one. Heaven sounds rather boring to me.

you sound a bit needy but fine if heaven sounds boring just carry on as you are...
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:31:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 12:06:13 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I don't know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid.

Don't sweat gods, Impartial.

The proposition theologians want you to accept is that the revelations claimed by their received traditions correctly identify an engaged, intelligent, metaphysical agency worthy of your submission.

I don't accept this because I value scientific evidence.


That has nothing to do with gods, and everything to do with the evidence, accountability and transparency associated with their claims.

Of which there is absolutely zero. And not even a moderately adequate probability of being true based on what science has told us about the world already.


You can reject every theology in the world as ignorant, deluded, inadequate and immoral without saying anything about how the universe came about, simply by pointing out that ignorant, deluded, inadequate and immoral theology is a routine product of human culture, and that no theology can demonstrate independently that it offers any more wise, insightful, comprehensive and benign a life than that undertaken by a self-examined nontheist with a good education, acting kindly.

This is what it comes down to, in simple terms... as a nontheist, I know something that all theists don't. I know that I do not know how the universe was created.


If you call yourself an atheist -- living without gods -- simply because there's no compelling evidence that living with them creates a better life, then I for one will not say you're wrong to do so. :)

There is not just no compelling evidence, I find the idea of a god increadibly disturbing, particularly the desire people have to be a slave to one.


I hope that may help. :)

It did, I appreciate it.
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:33:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.

I suppose you're right. But then wouldn't all atheists fit into this bracket because after all, no one knows that a god or gods exist?
To believe is to know nothing.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,647
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9/15/2015 3:34:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

I understand what you're saying, Impartial, but the disingenuous theist will always impose their beliefs on others, it's easy and it's lazy, and it gives them the unsupported and childish platform of superiority over others without having to do anything at all but be lazy.

Keep in mind, the dog barks, but the caravan passes.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:38:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:29:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:09:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
why label yourself at all be who you are, if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

Perhaps so that other people who share my views can identify with me. I doubt I'm the only one. Heaven sounds rather boring to me.

you sound a bit needy but fine if heaven sounds boring just carry on as you are...

I'd use the word intrigued more than needy. This is why we're on a forum is it not? The idea of existing outside myself with every single 'good' person and 'bad' person why happened to repent (whom ever existed and will exist in the future), isn't all that appealing. If I can't eat good food and play sport and do certain other physical activities, I think I'd go mad.
To believe is to know nothing.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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9/15/2015 3:44:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:33:51 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.

I suppose you're right. But then wouldn't all atheists fit into this bracket because after all, no one knows that a god or gods exist?

Agnosticism is a belief in of and itself. If one is agnostic, then one believes that it is not possible for the truth to be known, in general. A gnostic person believes that it can be known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that person knows. This term does not pertain to one's own knowledge.

Agnostic : A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. [Oxford]

An agnostic theist believe that God exists, but also believes that no living human can know for certain. A gnostic atheist lacks belief that God exists, but believes that it is possible for it to be knowable. I would guess the latter is quite rare.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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9/15/2015 3:45:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:29:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:09:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
why label yourself at all be who you are, if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

Perhaps so that other people who share my views can identify with me. I doubt I'm the only one. Heaven sounds rather boring to me.

you sound a bit needy but fine if heaven sounds boring just carry on as you are...

Tell us what you're gonna do in heaven gog............................................for eternity?
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:47:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:34:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

I understand what you're saying, Impartial, but the disingenuous theist will always impose their beliefs on others, it's easy and it's lazy, and it gives them the unsupported and childish platform of superiority over others without having to do anything at all but be lazy.

Keep in mind, the dog barks, but the caravan passes.

Sure, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. I care too much about the disgraceful things it makes believers do. Someone like graceofgod may be a parent, teaching his or her children that if they don't believe what he believes, they won't get into heaven. I care about the welfare of those children and their right not to be emotionally blackmailed by the horrible concept of hell.

Know what I mean?
To believe is to know nothing.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/15/2015 3:48:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

Look... I'm with you. I have never liked the term "agnostic" but I have never been keen to prove there is no god, just have no way to do it, and don't care one bit that I don't. I also don't begrudge religious their crutch, I just would prefer that they not use it as a club.

Often religious people will ask or wonder why atheists spend any time talking about religion. Well, in the absence of religion, we simply would NOT talk about it. Its the overlap that forces the conversation. Then you get "antithesis" tossed about, and you are right in the middle of a battle of labels.

Where and when it is necessary, the labels work just fine in the end. I have talked to enough Christians that feel that that term does not real describe them in the way they like either. Point being, some from the religious side will look a bit deeper into you than others. Don't sweat the label too much.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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9/15/2015 3:49:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:47:35 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:34:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

I understand what you're saying, Impartial, but the disingenuous theist will always impose their beliefs on others, it's easy and it's lazy, and it gives them the unsupported and childish platform of superiority over others without having to do anything at all but be lazy.

Keep in mind, the dog barks, but the caravan passes.

Sure, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. I care too much about the disgraceful things it makes believers do. Someone like graceofgod may be a parent, teaching his or her children that if they don't believe what he believes, they won't get into heaven. I care about the welfare of those children and their right not to be emotionally blackmailed by the horrible concept of hell.

Know what I mean?

Yep
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 3:54:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:44:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:33:51 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.

I suppose you're right. But then wouldn't all atheists fit into this bracket because after all, no one knows that a god or gods exist?

Agnosticism is a belief in of and itself. If one is agnostic, then one believes that it is not possible for the truth to be known, in general. A gnostic person believes that it can be known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that person knows. This term does not pertain to one's own knowledge.

So what do you call someone why doesn't know if a god or gods exists and also doen't know if it can or cannot ever be known?


Agnostic : A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. [Oxford]

Hmmm, that seems like quite a foolish position.


An agnostic theist believe that God exists, but also believes that no living human can know for certain. A gnostic atheist lacks belief that God exists, but believes that it is possible for it to be knowable. I would guess the latter is quite rare.

So what would you call my position, Chaosism? I certainly don't subscribe to Gnosticism.
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 4:02:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:48:27 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

Look... I'm with you. I have never liked the term "agnostic" but I have never been keen to prove there is no god, just have no way to do it, and don't care one bit that I don't. I also don't begrudge religious their crutch, I just would prefer that they not use it as a club.

Me too.


Often religious people will ask or wonder why atheists spend any time talking about religion. Well, in the absence of religion, we simply would NOT talk about it. Its the overlap that forces the conversation. Then you get "antithesis" tossed about, and you are right in the middle of a battle of labels.

Antitheism is foolish in my opinion because no some should tell someone else what their opinion should be, which is essentially what belief is. If someone's favourite colour is pink, I'm not going to blow the two of us up because it they should have said blue. They're welcome to their opinion and how it makes them look to the rest of society is their responsibility.


Where and when it is necessary, the labels work just fine in the end. I have talked to enough Christians that feel that that term does not real describe them in the way they like either. Point being, some from the religious side will look a bit deeper into you than others. Don't sweat the label too much.

Good advice, thanks.
To believe is to know nothing.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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9/15/2015 4:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:54:27 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:44:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:33:51 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.

I suppose you're right. But then wouldn't all atheists fit into this bracket because after all, no one knows that a god or gods exist?

Agnosticism is a belief in of and itself. If one is agnostic, then one believes that it is not possible for the truth to be known, in general. A gnostic person believes that it can be known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that person knows. This term does not pertain to one's own knowledge.

So what do you call someone why doesn't know if a god or gods exists and also doen't know if it can or cannot ever be known?


Agnostic : A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. [Oxford]

Hmmm, that seems like quite a foolish position.


An agnostic theist believe that God exists, but also believes that no living human can know for certain. A gnostic atheist lacks belief that God exists, but believes that it is possible for it to be knowable. I would guess the latter is quite rare.

So what would you call my position, Chaosism? I certainly don't subscribe to Gnosticism.

Trying to force labels to conform to distinct concepts is a fruitless endeavor. Everyone is going to have an individually held concept that is associated with the word that will differ with everyone else the more we try to include fine details. It is impossible for us to classify an infinitely diverse world with our artificial categorization that is language.

But anyhow, since you lack a belief in any kind of deity or God, I would call you an atheist. Regarding the agnosticism, since that is a positive belief, it is possible for you to not hold it and to not hold the opposite, as well. I don't think there is a term for that, but no one would ever dig into it that far. I would be in the same position, but I just go by agnostic because it more closely matches the concept that is generally held by most people. When conflict arise in definitions, I just explain my stance - the labels don't affect it, anyway.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 4:22:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 4:13:22 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:54:27 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:44:27 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:33:51 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 12:31:36 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome.

I would probably class you as an agnostic atheist. You believe that any gods are highly unlikely to exist but can't totally rule it out.

I suppose you're right. But then wouldn't all atheists fit into this bracket because after all, no one knows that a god or gods exist?

Agnosticism is a belief in of and itself. If one is agnostic, then one believes that it is not possible for the truth to be known, in general. A gnostic person believes that it can be known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that person knows. This term does not pertain to one's own knowledge.

So what do you call someone why doesn't know if a god or gods exists and also doen't know if it can or cannot ever be known?


Agnostic : A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. [Oxford]

Hmmm, that seems like quite a foolish position.


An agnostic theist believe that God exists, but also believes that no living human can know for certain. A gnostic atheist lacks belief that God exists, but believes that it is possible for it to be knowable. I would guess the latter is quite rare.

So what would you call my position, Chaosism? I certainly don't subscribe to Gnosticism.

Trying to force labels to conform to distinct concepts is a fruitless endeavor. Everyone is going to have an individually held concept that is associated with the word that will differ with everyone else the more we try to include fine details. It is impossible for us to classify an infinitely diverse world with our artificial categorization that is language.

Good point.


But anyhow, since you lack a belief in any kind of deity or God, I would call you an atheist. Regarding the agnosticism, since that is a positive belief, it is possible for you to not hold it and to not hold the opposite, as well. I don't think there is a term for that, but no one would ever dig into it that far. I would be in the same position, but I just go by agnostic because it more closely matches the concept that is generally held by most people. When conflict arise in definitions, I just explain my stance - the labels don't affect it, anyway.

I agree.
To believe is to know nothing.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,647
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9/15/2015 4:51:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 3:47:35 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:34:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

I understand what you're saying, Impartial, but the disingenuous theist will always impose their beliefs on others, it's easy and it's lazy, and it gives them the unsupported and childish platform of superiority over others without having to do anything at all but be lazy.

Keep in mind, the dog barks, but the caravan passes.

Sure, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. I care too much about the disgraceful things it makes believers do. Someone like graceofgod may be a parent, teaching his or her children that if they don't believe what he believes, they won't get into heaven. I care about the welfare of those children and their right not to be emotionally blackmailed by the horrible concept of hell.

Know what I mean?

Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more, indoctrinating children into a religion is indeed child abuse and should be a priority, but unfortunately, folks like graceofgod have the freedom to do so. But, the internet is changing all that as their children are finding out they are being indoctrinated and are rebelling against their parents brainwashing. They don't really blame their parents because they understand their parents were also brainwashed. The key is to find the source of the indoctrination and limit it's influence over people. This can only come about through dialogue and education. Don't let their lazy brainwashed banalities affect you, they are impotent.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Impartial
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9/15/2015 5:00:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 4:51:49 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:47:35 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 3:34:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

At 9/15/2015 10:28:03 AM, graceofgod wrote:
if you are not interested in getting to heaven just carry on the way you are going...

I understand what you're saying, Impartial, but the disingenuous theist will always impose their beliefs on others, it's easy and it's lazy, and it gives them the unsupported and childish platform of superiority over others without having to do anything at all but be lazy.

Keep in mind, the dog barks, but the caravan passes.

Sure, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. I care too much about the disgraceful things it makes believers do. Someone like graceofgod may be a parent, teaching his or her children that if they don't believe what he believes, they won't get into heaven. I care about the welfare of those children and their right not to be emotionally blackmailed by the horrible concept of hell.

Know what I mean?

Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more, indoctrinating children into a religion is indeed child abuse and should be a priority, but unfortunately, folks like graceofgod have the freedom to do so. But, the internet is changing all that as their children are finding out they are being indoctrinated and are rebelling against their parents brainwashing. They don't really blame their parents because they understand their parents were also brainwashed. The key is to find the source of the indoctrination and limit it's influence over people. This can only come about through dialogue and education. Don't let their lazy brainwashed banalities affect you, they are impotent.

Indeed, that's one of the great things about the internet. It's a shame that the same can't be said for homosexuals in Nigeria or apostates in Saudi Arabia. But then here in Britain, Chirsianity still gets special treatment.
To believe is to know nothing.
retiree
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9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 5:14:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

I thought it was funny, I'm sorry if you didn't find it so. Input from all member is of course welcome.


Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?

I don't need it. I'm interested to know what others think about it.
To believe is to know nothing.
retiree
Posts: 12
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9/15/2015 5:17:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 5:14:28 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

I thought it was funny, I'm sorry if you didn't find it so. Input from all member is of course welcome.


Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?

I don't need it. I'm interested to know what others think about it. : :

Some people feel empowered by labeling themselves whether they believe their fellow members or not.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 5:20:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 5:17:02 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:14:28 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

I thought it was funny, I'm sorry if you didn't find it so. Input from all member is of course welcome.


Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?

I don't need it. I'm interested to know what others think about it. : :

Some people feel empowered by labeling themselves whether they believe their fellow members or not.

Perhaps. Although, speaking for myself, empowerment isn't something I expect or require from this forum.
To believe is to know nothing.
retiree
Posts: 12
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9/15/2015 5:24:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 5:20:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:17:02 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:14:28 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

I thought it was funny, I'm sorry if you didn't find it so. Input from all member is of course welcome.


Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?

I don't need it. I'm interested to know what others think about it. : :

Some people feel empowered by labeling themselves whether they believe their fellow members or not.

Perhaps. Although, speaking for myself, empowerment isn't something I expect or require from this forum. : :

Your profile name fits this statement of yours. The name I used for myself when I joined DDO was hated by almost all members of this forum. That's because it didn't fit into any group here or anywhere else in this world.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/15/2015 5:30:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 5:24:27 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:20:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:17:02 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:14:28 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 5:09:17 PM, retiree wrote:
At 9/15/2015 7:54:12 AM, Impartial wrote:
I'm struggling with the term atheist as a word to describe myself because some people still think it"s a belief in itself and they won"t be persuaded otherwise. I don"t know if there is or is not a god, even though I think the idea is clearly incredibly unlikely and stupid. So you could call me an agnostic but then it doesn"t properly describe how much I dislike the idea of one or more gods. I"m not anti-theist either because secularism is the way forward in my opinion. But then I think the world would be a better place without religion, not that I want people to stop believing in superheroes, I just don"t want them to impose those beliefs on others.

Input from both believers and infidels welcome. : :

Why don't you ask input from other members instead of saying believers and infidels?

I thought it was funny, I'm sorry if you didn't find it so. Input from all member is of course welcome.


Why do you need a label for other people and yourself?

I don't need it. I'm interested to know what others think about it. : :

Some people feel empowered by labeling themselves whether they believe their fellow members or not.

Perhaps. Although, speaking for myself, empowerment isn't something I expect or require from this forum. : :

Your profile name fits this statement of yours. The name I used for myself when I joined DDO was hated by almost all members of this forum. That's because it didn't fit into any group here or anywhere else in this world.

To be honest, the name wasn't thought out using a great deal of time or precision. I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience because of something as trivial as a name.
To believe is to know nothing.