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Why would a god expect to be worshipped?

beng100
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9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.
corky
Posts: 7
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9/16/2015 2:07:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim. : :

You have more wisdom than any Christian on this planet.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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9/16/2015 5:47:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 2:07:30 AM, corky wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim. : :

You have more wisdom than any Christian on this planet.

Beng100 should consider that the ultimate insult. When an insane person deems another person's writings sane, well ............
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/16/2015 6:22:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.
All theology's outrageous claims of dogmatic authority are directed toward one end: ensuring the chosen faith is worshiped the approved way. Nations have persecuted one another over it, fought wars, committed genocide and forced conversions over the right god(s) to worship and the right way to do it.

The two groups who benefit most from this are of course, clergy and rulers.

Clergy benefit because they can tithe the labour and wealth of worshipers, and gain influence over them, while rulers benefit because a state with a cohesive religious identity is easier to subjugate, manipulate and mobilise.

As to how a transcendental entity benefits from all the capering, caroling and conspicuous consumption, it's beyond me.

But since religious dogma is only ever mandated by clergy and rulers in the first place, perhaps that's beside the point.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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9/16/2015 8:34:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Any entity or human who requires worship is far too up themselves, and mentally unstable, imo!
uncung
Posts: 3,455
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9/16/2015 11:26:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

God orders to worship Him.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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9/16/2015 11:27:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

A god probably wouldn't care about sadomasochistic worship. If anything, I bet he'd expect humans to be atheists.
To believe is to know nothing.
corky
Posts: 7
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9/16/2015 1:20:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 6:22:54 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.
All theology's outrageous claims of dogmatic authority are directed toward one end: ensuring the chosen faith is worshiped the approved way. Nations have persecuted one another over it, fought wars, committed genocide and forced conversions over the right god(s) to worship and the right way to do it.

The two groups who benefit most from this are of course, clergy and rulers.

Clergy benefit because they can tithe the labour and wealth of worshipers, and gain influence over them, while rulers benefit because a state with a cohesive religious identity is easier to subjugate, manipulate and mobilise.

As to how a transcendental entity benefits from all the capering, caroling and conspicuous consumption, it's beyond me.

But since religious dogma is only ever mandated by clergy and rulers in the first place, perhaps that's beside the point. : :

Well said my friend.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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9/18/2015 2:08:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God OR ELSE.
Fixed that for ya.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/18/2015 5:03:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.

I get the impression that you don't understand the concept of worship. Worship is not raising your hands in the air and kissing up to God. Worship is understanding what is important, it is where your values lie.

Certainly, Highest Truth and Reality is worthy of worship. Lying to yourself will only lead to suffering.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/18/2015 6:58:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 5:03:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.

I get the impression that you don't understand the concept of worship. Worship is not raising your hands in the air and kissing up to God. Worship is understanding what is important, it is where your values lie.

Certainly, Highest Truth and Reality is worthy of worship. Lying to yourself will only lead to suffering.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth. Worship of god is a theory devised by early primitive humans as an explanation for their existence. They could obviously not understand their existence so used their imagination to try and figure out why they existed and how they came to be created. Worship proved an evolutionary advantage throughout humanities existence. It eases the fear of death, motivates believers to fight for their beliefs and be prepared to die for them. It gave an explanation for the strangeness of their lives and existence and was used as justification for conquest, war, murder, imprisonment and torture. Ultimately though it's a myth. Although it is possible for a human to understand this the majority cannot.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,669
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9/18/2015 7:06:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 11:27:55 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

A god probably wouldn't care about sadomasochistic worship. If anything, I bet he'd expect humans to be atheists.

If this life is supposed to be some sort of test of character as some claim, then it would make sense that revealing oneself (as God), especially only to a select few, would contaminate the trial and skew the results. It would be like trying to determine if a child is good by standing there while he knows that he's being evaluated. The reasonable way would be to observe whilst remaining unperceived.

Of course, this is ignoring all of those minor details like omniscience, and all.
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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9/18/2015 7:09:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

There is no evidence that God expects or wants to be worshipped. That is something humans made up.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/18/2015 7:18:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 6:58:27 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/18/2015 5:03:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.

I get the impression that you don't understand the concept of worship. Worship is not raising your hands in the air and kissing up to God. Worship is understanding what is important, it is where your values lie.

Certainly, Highest Truth and Reality is worthy of worship. Lying to yourself will only lead to suffering.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth. Worship of god is a theory devised by early primitive humans as an explanation for their existence. They could obviously not understand their existence so used their imagination to try and figure out why they existed and how they came to be created. Worship proved an evolutionary advantage throughout humanities existence. It eases the fear of death, motivates believers to fight for their beliefs and be prepared to die for them. It gave an explanation for the strangeness of their lives and existence and was used as justification for conquest, war, murder, imprisonment and torture. Ultimately though it's a myth. Although it is possible for a human to understand this the majority cannot.

You speak about things you don't understand.

God represents The Ultimate Reality and Truth most High. When you deny God, you deny this.

The Gospel teaches us that we are forgiven for being fallible human beings, and that we should forgive others for being fallible human beings.

The people who do evil in the name of Jesus, they were prophesied of in the Gospel according to Matthew when it was written...

~~~~~

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

~~~~~

It was also written in The Gospel according to Matthew...

~~~~~

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"

Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

~~~~~

Likewise, as it was written in the Gospel according to John...

~~~~~

Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?"

She said, "No one, Lord."

And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

~~~~~~~

Christian theology abolishes the idolatry of scripture, and makes very plain that mercy triumphs over judgement, as the manner we use to judge others is used against our own selves. It is understood that all men fall short of the glory of God, and that any man who says he is without sin does not have the truth in him.

If you understand what is being said here, it should be very plain that The Truth being proclaimed here is that scripture is intended to convict the self, not condemn others. The Gospel preaches forgiveness, and this forgiveness is justified by The Truth.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/18/2015 9:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 7:18:59 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 6:58:27 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/18/2015 5:03:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.

I get the impression that you don't understand the concept of worship. Worship is not raising your hands in the air and kissing up to God. Worship is understanding what is important, it is where your values lie.

Certainly, Highest Truth and Reality is worthy of worship. Lying to yourself will only lead to suffering.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth. Worship of god is a theory devised by early primitive humans as an explanation for their existence. They could obviously not understand their existence so used their imagination to try and figure out why they existed and how they came to be created. Worship proved an evolutionary advantage throughout humanities existence. It eases the fear of death, motivates believers to fight for their beliefs and be prepared to die for them. It gave an explanation for the strangeness of their lives and existence and was used as justification for conquest, war, murder, imprisonment and torture. Ultimately though it's a myth. Although it is possible for a human to understand this the majority cannot.

You speak about things you don't understand.

God represents The Ultimate Reality and Truth most High. When you deny God, you deny this.

The Gospel teaches us that we are forgiven for being fallible human beings, and that we should forgive others for being fallible human beings.

The people who do evil in the name of Jesus, they were prophesied of in the Gospel according to Matthew when it was written...

~~~~~

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

~~~~~

It was also written in The Gospel according to Matthew...

~~~~~

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"

Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

~~~~~

Likewise, as it was written in the Gospel according to John...

~~~~~

Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?"

She said, "No one, Lord."

And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

~~~~~~~

Christian theology abolishes the idolatry of scripture, and makes very plain that mercy triumphs over judgement, as the manner we use to judge others is used against our own selves. It is understood that all men fall short of the glory of God, and that any man who says he is without sin does not have the truth in him.

If you understand what is being said here, it should be very plain that The Truth being proclaimed here is that scripture is intended to convict the self, not condemn others. The Gospel preaches forgiveness, and this forgiveness is justified by The Truth.

Have you ever studied any non christian religeons? Millions have existed throughout history. How do you know you are worshipping the correct religion if one is true? How has your argument proved anything? As an atheist I do not place any value in the bible. It is an unverified biased account of events over 2 millennia ago. It is full of myth and exaduration. Some of the scripture in it is so unrealistic it genuinely makes me laugh. Quite simply it is a book written by humans- the species that as you point out is unreliable and flawed. If God is so great would it not be logical to write the bible himself to give everybody the true nature of his demands? It is completely false that a god exists that demands worship as no effort has been made by any supreme being to demonstrate they want worship. You can't expect someone to do something without telling them first.
For example many people in the world have been bought up in Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, shintu and yazidi cultures and would not have heard of Christianity in any detail. If God is so intelligent and loving he would not set such harsh traps for humanity. Natural disasters? Disease? Famine? Wars? Parasites? Predators? Oh I forgot! Adam was pursuaded by the talking snake to eat an Apple! What a sin! God supposedly created Adam! Obviously God was to blame for Adam's faults! In response he submits the world to thousands of years of suffering. Then sends a few Messiahs. Why not take stronger action? Then in modern times provide no evidence of his existence. The story is a lot less convincing than Santa or the tooth fairy. If that story was made up today no one would believe it. It just shows how humans in general follow the beliefs of their culture. The scaremongering of religeous figures of Satan, hell and the devil are used to scare people into what us in effect fake belief. Believing in something due to fear of not doing so. The creation of humans is well known- evolution. The big bang was the starting point for the universe. These are proven facts. The earth is billions of years old. Fact. Why do you believe in such unlikely theology? Is it the fear of hell, hopes of an afterlife? It's for these reasons why for most people, light religeous belief is an easier option than atheism.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/18/2015 9:52:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 9:36:55 PM, beng100 wrote:
Have you ever studied any non christian religeons? Millions have existed throughout history. How do you know you are worshipping the correct religion if one is true? How has your argument proved anything? As an atheist I do not place any value in the bible. It is an unverified biased account of events over 2 millennia ago. It is full of myth and exaduration. Some of the scripture in it is so unrealistic it genuinely makes me laugh. Quite simply it is a book written by humans- the species that as you point out is unreliable and flawed. If God is so great would it not be logical to write the bible himself to give everybody the true nature of his demands? It is completely false that a god exists that demands worship as no effort has been made by any supreme being to demonstrate they want worship. You can't expect someone to do something without telling them first.
For example many people in the world have been bought up in Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, shintu and yazidi cultures and would not have heard of Christianity in any detail. If God is so intelligent and loving he would not set such harsh traps for humanity. Natural disasters? Disease? Famine? Wars? Parasites? Predators? Oh I forgot! Adam was pursuaded by the talking snake to eat an Apple! What a sin! God supposedly created Adam! Obviously God was to blame for Adam's faults! In response he submits the world to thousands of years of suffering. Then sends a few Messiahs. Why not take stronger action? Then in modern times provide no evidence of his existence. The story is a lot less convincing than Santa or the tooth fairy. If that story was made up today no one would believe it. It just shows how humans in general follow the beliefs of their culture. The scaremongering of religeous figures of Satan, hell and the devil are used to scare people into what us in effect fake belief. Believing in something due to fear of not doing so. The creation of humans is well known- evolution. The big bang was the starting point for the universe. These are proven facts. The earth is billions of years old. Fact. Why do you believe in such unlikely theology? Is it the fear of hell, hopes of an afterlife? It's for these reasons why for most people, light religeous belief is an easier option than atheism.

As a matter of fact, yes, I have studied other religions and take part in interfaith dialog pretty regularly.

You assume far too much about what it is I believe. You don't understand the things you are saying.

And on that note, why do you mock those who believe in things that are written down? How are you doing anything different? Are you a scientist in a lab coat performing experiments? Where do you get your information from? You believe what you read, you are no better.

And at what point did I ever make any unscientific claim? I am a huge fan of science, I can speak knowledgebly on many subjects pertaining to physics/ You assume far too much, which by the way, is not a scientific way of going about things. You'd be better off asking questions rather than assuming what I believe. Not every Christian is a straw man.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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9/18/2015 11:53:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 11:26:00 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

God orders to worship Him.

I say fvck Gods orders. (:
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Ramshutu
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9/18/2015 11:58:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

What manifest difference is there on our lives if we worship God vs if we don't.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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9/19/2015 12:01:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 11:26:00 AM, uncung wrote:

God orders to worship Him.

That's not the OP question though.

To rephrase: why should we reasonably expect an all-powerful entirely self-sufficient god to require worship? The fact that you seem to think he orders us to fails to offer any explanation as to why a deity with the above mentioned attributes would insist on it under penalty of death.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/19/2015 12:37:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 11:58:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

What manifest difference is there on our lives if we worship God vs if we don't.

First you have to understand what God represents. God represents The Way Things Are. The Highest Truth. Reality. Actuality.

Having that understanding now, it's really just a matter of choice...

Are you going to be honest about what you believe in or are you just going to believe what you want to believe?

If you worship God, it is to say that you are unwilling to exchange The Truth for a lie.

God does not imply a particular religious affiliation. The word represents a concept that is true independent of any defining.

This is the theological understanding of the concept, and it is universal among many different faiths.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/19/2015 12:54:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 12:37:06 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 11:58:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

What manifest difference is there on our lives if we worship God vs if we don't.

First you have to understand what God represents. God represents The Way Things Are. The Highest Truth. Reality. Actuality.

Having that understanding now, it's really just a matter of choice...

Are you going to be honest about what you believe in or are you just going to believe what you want to believe?

If you worship God, it is to say that you are unwilling to exchange The Truth for a lie.

God does not imply a particular religious affiliation. The word represents a concept that is true independent of any defining.

This is the theological understanding of the concept, and it is universal among many different faiths.

You claimed it is in our best interests that we worship God. We are not required to.

I essentially asked why: what is it that manifest difference that we get from worshipping God that we do not get from not worshipping God.

You didn't answer the question.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/19/2015 12:56:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 12:54:01 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/19/2015 12:37:06 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 11:58:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

What manifest difference is there on our lives if we worship God vs if we don't.

First you have to understand what God represents. God represents The Way Things Are. The Highest Truth. Reality. Actuality.

Having that understanding now, it's really just a matter of choice...

Are you going to be honest about what you believe in or are you just going to believe what you want to believe?

If you worship God, it is to say that you are unwilling to exchange The Truth for a lie.

God does not imply a particular religious affiliation. The word represents a concept that is true independent of any defining.

This is the theological understanding of the concept, and it is universal among many different faiths.

You claimed it is in our best interests that we worship God. We are not required to.

I essentially asked why: what is it that manifest difference that we get from worshipping God that we do not get from not worshipping God.

You didn't answer the question.

Inner peace.

If you keep telling reality how it is supposed to be instead of accepting how it is, you are going to be miserable. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the root of suffering. Willful ignorance is the worst type of ignorance. Keeping it real is paramount.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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9/19/2015 1:00:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 12:56:00 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/19/2015 12:54:01 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/19/2015 12:37:06 AM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 11:58:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

What manifest difference is there on our lives if we worship God vs if we don't.

First you have to understand what God represents. God represents The Way Things Are. The Highest Truth. Reality. Actuality.

Having that understanding now, it's really just a matter of choice...

Are you going to be honest about what you believe in or are you just going to believe what you want to believe?

If you worship God, it is to say that you are unwilling to exchange The Truth for a lie.

God does not imply a particular religious affiliation. The word represents a concept that is true independent of any defining.

This is the theological understanding of the concept, and it is universal among many different faiths.

You claimed it is in our best interests that we worship God. We are not required to.

I essentially asked why: what is it that manifest difference that we get from worshipping God that we do not get from not worshipping God.

You didn't answer the question.

Inner peace.

If you keep telling reality how it is supposed to be instead of accepting how it is, you are going to be miserable. Ignorance is not bliss, it is the root of suffering. Willful ignorance is the worst type of ignorance. Keeping it real is paramount.

While that's a nice sentiment, it's not exactly based on any evidence, study or real world example.

With what evidence can you make this claim? How do you measure inner peace? What studies do you have to reference that shows those that worship God have inner peace, and those who do not never do?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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9/19/2015 1:28:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 11:27:55 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

A god probably wouldn't care about sadomasochistic worship. If anything, I bet he'd expect humans to be atheists.

The Bible actually says God wishes thou were hot (know god exists) or cold (opposite) , but since you are luke warm (strong conviction or belief but not certain faith).....so its all a matter of how you look at it.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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9/19/2015 1:38:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

How else can you learn wisdom if not by your wisdom being questioned or ridiculed? Behavior reflects wisdom, that's an easy connection to make. Second, If you're saying that duality is Gods fault, I.e. everything has its opposite in order to recognize which is good or evil. That's kind of a no brainer too. Existence is dependent on it. Could it not be based on duality? Who knows. And like most atheists you don't equate worship as good, that's your opinion. Thing about opinions, they're not remotely logical. And you are merely projecting what someone worshipping you might mean. To God it would be different and that shows a lack of wisdom on your part. Assuming of course there is a God, your assertions reflect a lack of wisdom.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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9/19/2015 3:32:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/16/2015 11:26:00 AM, uncung wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

God orders to worship Him.

Read post #5
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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9/19/2015 3:35:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 7:09:28 PM, janesix wrote:
At 9/15/2015 10:21:58 PM, beng100 wrote:
As an atheist I find it strange why a supreme being capable of creating the universe be so concerned by the behaviour of humans. The species he supposedly created can surely not be blamed for its faults as it was he who supposedly created it, hence he is to blame! This is an often undervalued topic in religious debates. Why would a god care about humans idolising and worshipping him? What value does it serve? How can a god blame a human for not believing in and worshipping him without providing evidence of his existence? Theism is illogical but to claim a god would expect to be worshipped, especially without evidence is a completely ludicrous claim.

There is no evidence that God expects or wants to be worshipped. That is something humans made up.

Why wouldn't they, they made up the gods to begin with.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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9/19/2015 3:36:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 5:03:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 9/18/2015 10:55:20 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/17/2015 9:23:49 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
God doesn't require worship. God doesn't require anything of anyone, God is self sufficient. Indeed, there is nothing you can give God that wasn't given to you by God.

God represents the Supreme and Ultimate Reality. God is the only thing truly worthy of worship. What is worship? That which makes your life worthwhile. Pagans worship impermanent created things. They are fools, their faith is in sandcastles. Faith in these things leads to suffering. God is what saves you from your turmoil, God is what sets you free from being a slave, God is the solution to your problems.

No, it isn't that God requires worship. It is in your own best interests that you worship God.

No its not in your best interests to waste time worshipping anything. It is an illogical activity. It achieves nothing. God does not save anybody from anything. Famine, disease, natural disasters and wars do not effect athiests more than theists.

I get the impression that you don't understand the concept of worship. Worship is not raising your hands in the air and kissing up to God. Worship is understanding what is important, it is where your values lie.
You have a dictionary definition that supports this claim?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin