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Atheists: question for you

Hitchian
Posts: 764
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9/19/2015 4:49:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Well, if you put it as imprecisely as that, pretty much no one is an atheist. NSA exists, the Mossad exists, UN exists, Federal Reserve, you get the picture. :)

It is also quite imprecise one step up that ladder. Soto Zen Buddhists are rightly considered atheists yet they would be able to unequivocally answer yes. Same thing with some Kabbalistic fringes.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:22:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:49:27 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Well, if you put it as imprecisely as that, pretty much no one is an atheist. NSA exists, the Mossad exists, UN exists, Federal Reserve, you get the picture. :)

It is also quite imprecise one step up that ladder. Soto Zen Buddhists are rightly considered atheists yet they would be able to unequivocally answer yes. Same thing with some Kabbalistic fringes.

There's no right or wrong answer, just wanted your thoughts :)

I meant it in the sense of any power above human capability, whether this power is personal or non-personal.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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9/19/2015 5:26:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

Depends on definitions. A super nova is more destructive than any human can be. Your question is so vague that it can mean next to anything.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,566
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9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:42:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:26:31 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

Depends on definitions. A super nova is more destructive than any human can be. Your question is so vague that it can mean next to anything.

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's no correct answer.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/19/2015 5:48:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

A lowland gorilla is far more powerful than any human.
You really struggle with your attempts to believe in something you can worship, don't you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:50:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:48:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

A lowland gorilla is far more powerful than any human.
You really struggle with your attempts to believe in something you can worship, don't you?

Power can mean a lot of different things. Physical strength is only one aspect of power.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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9/19/2015 5:52:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:50:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:48:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

A lowland gorilla is far more powerful than any human.
You really struggle with your attempts to believe in something you can worship, don't you?

Power can mean a lot of different things. Physical strength is only one aspect of power.

Is believing in an invisible friend a power?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 5:55:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:52:26 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:50:21 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:48:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:23:43 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:02:48 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

It really depends on how you define terms. I am not the fastest, I am not the strongest, I am not the smartest, etc., but even theists would admit that.

Is the highest power limited to the best of human capabilities in your opinion?

A lowland gorilla is far more powerful than any human.
You really struggle with your attempts to believe in something you can worship, don't you?

Power can mean a lot of different things. Physical strength is only one aspect of power.

Is believing in an invisible friend a power?

What would be powerful about that?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,566
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9/19/2015 5:59:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .

Then, the question is redundant considering facts and evidence will tell us which is true or not.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 6:03:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 5:59:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .

Then, the question is redundant considering facts and evidence will tell us which is true or not.

Is there any evidence of a higher power in the form of intelligence?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,087
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9/19/2015 7:01:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Assuming you mean a power beyond material beings - no.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,566
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9/19/2015 7:08:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 6:03:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:59:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .

Then, the question is redundant considering facts and evidence will tell us which is true or not.

Is there any evidence of a higher power in the form of intelligence?

Other than humans, not on Earth, to speculate, perhaps some alien life forms may be more intelligent. That's about it.

Is there a point?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 7:11:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 7:01:06 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Assuming you mean a power beyond material beings - no.

Do you consider the existence of alien life to be likely or unlikely?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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9/19/2015 7:12:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 7:08:51 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 6:03:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:59:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .

Then, the question is redundant considering facts and evidence will tell us which is true or not.

Is there any evidence of a higher power in the form of intelligence?

Other than humans, not on Earth, to speculate, perhaps some alien life forms may be more intelligent. That's about it.

Is there a point?

That was the point. Thanks for your input.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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9/19/2015 7:13:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 6:03:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:

Is there any evidence of a higher power in the form of intelligence?

You tell me.

It doesn't matter whether or not I seem to sense an inkling for what Zen Buddhists might describe as True Self. I distrust my own inklings and subject them to scrutiny.

No evidence, no belief.

You tell me, is there any evidence for a higher power in the form of intelligence?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,087
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9/19/2015 8:44:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 7:11:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 7:01:06 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Assuming you mean a power beyond material beings - no.

Do you consider the existence of alien life to be likely or unlikely?

I consider it to be possible. I don't know how likely/unlikely it is.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/19/2015 8:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

Define 'higher power'.

As a tiny little human on a tiny little planet in a monstrously big universe, virtually all the matter in the universe is bigger than you, has more energy than you and more gravitic potential than you.

Also your society is smarter than you and has more agency than you. Humans can't live other than in societies.

Whatever 'higher power' might mean, this feels like a strawman, Ben.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/19/2015 8:54:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is evidence of a higher intelligence. You have to look around at the scientist with the most brilliant minds struggle to produce an intelligent theory of everything.

Victor J Stenger a physicist came up with several mathematical models of the universe and alternate universes. But confirmed the universe in existence was real and not just a mathematical model.

Stephen Hawking another brilliant mind has retracted from his "Singularity" and no longer believes "Black Holes" are as destructive as he first postulated. In short he now doubts all his previous guess works.

For all of biological breakthroughs and theories of the origin of life and evolution. No scientist has ever produced life out of inorganic matter. In fact no life has ever been created in a lab. Yet the world is teeming with life, life is the most ubitiquously present fact surrounding us. Certainly speaks of a higher intelligence.
Brant96
Posts: 1
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9/19/2015 8:57:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 7:12:32 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 7:08:51 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 6:03:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:59:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:43:34 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 9/19/2015 5:26:50 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

You mean like nuclear power? Jet turbines? Saturn 5 boosters?

That is pretty obvious. Take the question however you want, there's not supposed to be only one true answer .

Then, the question is redundant considering facts and evidence will tell us which is true or not.

Is there any evidence of a higher power in the form of intelligence?

Other than humans, not on Earth, to speculate, perhaps some alien life forms may be more intelligent. That's about it.

Is there a point?

That was the point. Thanks for your input.

OP just asked a simple question regarding the existence of a greater power (which you all know wasn't about a jet turbines), its just atheists jumping on the band wagon of trying to attack him for his question. He was just asking your thoughts you d*cks.
From a Liberal Conservative xoxo
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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9/19/2015 8:58:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 8:54:03 PM, Harikrish wrote:
There is evidence of a higher intelligence. You have to look around at the scientist with the most brilliant minds struggle to produce an intelligent theory of everything.

Victor J Stenger a physicist came up with several mathematical models of the universe and alternate universes. But confirmed the universe in existence was real and not just a mathematical model.

Stephen Hawking another brilliant mind has retracted from his "Singularity" and no longer believes "Black Holes" are as destructive as he first postulated. In short he now doubts all his previous guess works.

For all of biological breakthroughs and theories of the origin of life and evolution. No scientist has ever produced life out of inorganic matter. In fact no life has ever been created in a lab. Yet the world is teeming with life, life is the most ubitiquously present fact surrounding us. Certainly speaks of a higher intelligence.

I'm not insensitive to your last point. However, what's going to be your reaction when scientists create life from inorganic matter? Sooner or later, it's going to happen. What if in a thousand years of uninterrupted scientific progress from now, they do create life from inorganic matter. What will you hypothetically say then?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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9/19/2015 9:08:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 8:58:09 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 9/19/2015 8:54:03 PM, Harikrish wrote:
There is evidence of a higher intelligence. You have to look around at the scientist with the most brilliant minds struggle to produce an intelligent theory of everything.

Victor J Stenger a physicist came up with several mathematical models of the universe and alternate universes. But confirmed the universe in existence was real and not just a mathematical model.

Stephen Hawking another brilliant mind has retracted from his "Singularity" and no longer believes "Black Holes" are as destructive as he first postulated. In short he now doubts all his previous guess works.

For all of biological breakthroughs and theories of the origin of life and evolution. No scientist has ever produced life out of inorganic matter. In fact no life has ever been created in a lab. Yet the world is teeming with life, life is the most ubitiquously present fact surrounding us. Certainly speaks of a higher intelligence.

I'm not insensitive to your last point. However, what's going to be your reaction when scientists create life from inorganic matter? Sooner or later, it's going to happen. What if in a thousand years of uninterrupted scientific progress from now, they do create life from inorganic matter. What will you hypothetically say then?

I will say they have just touched the tip of creation, an achievement but nevertheless just the very tip of creation.
Gingeral3
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9/19/2015 9:12:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 4:45:12 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
Do you believe that any power higher than yourself exists?

No, thats why atheists have egos
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/19/2015 9:59:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On reflection, I'm wondering by 'higher power' Ben means some superior moral authority.

Morality needs compassion, engagement and insight. As we learn more about ourselves and our world, and how to do things better, humans are developing more of each of these over time.

Religion claims more compassion than it demonstrates, and instead of insight, has given us overwhelming ignorance, superstition and corruption. So moral improvements neither arise from nor require religion.

But we do that better through species discourse than individually. So morality isn't really about self, either, but about our concern for the welfare of our fellows, and theirs for us.

So the self vs religion question is a false dichotomy -- a strawman -- feeding words into the mouths of people Ben doesn't understand, or care to understand, or have any care for other than to discredit.

Anyway, I think that's why the question bothered me.
Harikrish
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9/19/2015 10:10:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 9:59:25 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
On reflection, I'm wondering by 'higher power' Ben means some superior moral authority.

Morality needs compassion, engagement and insight. As we learn more about ourselves and our world, and how to do things better, humans are developing more of each of these over time.

Religion claims more compassion than it demonstrates, and instead of insight, has given us overwhelming ignorance, superstition and corruption. So moral improvements neither arise from nor require religion.


But we do that better through species discourse than individually. So morality isn't really about self, either, but about our concern for the welfare of our fellows, and theirs for us.

So the self vs religion question is a false dichotomy -- a strawman -- feeding words into the mouths of people Ben doesn't understand, or care to understand, or have any care for other than to discredit.

Anyway, I think that's why the question bothered me.
Darwin never bothered you when he said your common ancestors were Old World Monkeys.

Darwin wrote in the Descent of Man:""The Simiadae then branched off into two great stems, the New World and Old World monkeys; and from the latter, at a remote period, Man, the wonder and glory of the Universe, proceeded."