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Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/20/2015 9:39:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 7:53:55 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Who are your favourite sheikhs/public speakers? And why?

- I'll just list the ones who are currently alive:

1. Mustafa al-Bahyawi:
* https://www.youtube.com...
=> Greatest & wisest person I've ever encountered.

2. Abdallah Ben Bayyah:
* https://www.youtube.com...
=> Most knowledgeable person I've ever seen.

3. Weld Dedew:
* https://www.youtube.com...
=> The scholar with the strongest memory.

4. Yusuf al-Q'aradawi:
=> The scholar with the keenest mind.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/20/2015 9:42:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yahiya Emerick

I like him because he has great insight of Islam, translated the Qur'an into English better than anyone before him, and was born and raised in America to a non-Muslim family. Him being an American convert serves him greatly in relating the message of the Qur'an to Americans. I am a fan of his scholarly work.

His translation of the Qur'an is hands down my favorite English translation.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,781
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9/21/2015 4:43:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 7:53:55 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Who are your favourite sheikhs/public speakers? And why?

Ahmed Deedat first and formost... not only his charismatic features but also his comady will make you watch his debates again and again... https://www.youtube.com... :D

Shaykh Zahir Mahmood gives you interesting history stuff... https://www.youtube.com...

i have plenty but here one more Mansoor Ahmed debating at speakers corner in london... https://www.youtube.com...
Never fart near dog
graceofgod
Posts: 6,103
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9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....
Mobutu
Posts: 325
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9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!
PetersSmith
Posts: 6,894
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9/21/2015 5:04:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 7:53:55 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Who are your favourite sheikhs/public speakers? And why?

Abu Bakr al-Baghdad. He makes extremely rousing speeches and follows the Koran to the letter, and in its strictest form as it should be.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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graceofgod
Posts: 6,103
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9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Zidane
Posts: 1
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5/29/2017 1:02:22 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...

I don't understand.
"his little green book", does it refer to the Qur'an?
"babies being abused", didn't get your point.
"it shows Islam for what it is", wait, what?
graceofgod
Posts: 6,103
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7/13/2017 8:28:35 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 5/29/2017 1:02:22 AM, Zidane wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...

I don't understand.
"his little green book", does it refer to the Qur'an?
"babies being abused", didn't get your point.
"it shows Islam for what it is", wait, what?

just find it and see..
blamonkey
Posts: 58
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7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)
I am Jack's forum post."
graceofgod
Posts: 6,103
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7/17/2017 6:27:24 PM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)

ha ha ha islams hatred of violence when the papers are full every day with examples of muslim violence, the rapes on women and children in the papers every day, the killing of gays.... islam proves itself to be a hateful death cult every day...
blamonkey
Posts: 58
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7/18/2017 2:04:26 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
ha ha ha islams hatred of violence when the papers are full every day with examples of muslim violence, the rapes on women and children in the papers every day, the killing of gays.... islam proves itself to be a hateful death cult every day...

I would recommend spell-checking before actually posting responses. I mean "islams" is not a word. Also, capitalize words when needed, otherwise you sound like an internet troll who just exists to antagonize those who disagree with him/her. Second, the claim that ISIS or other terrorist groups speak for all Muslims is clearly ridiculous. I have already shown you that moderate believers in Islam published an open letter to ISIS fighters and leaders outwardly criticizing their abhorrent practices. The Pew Research Center has concluded that Muslims are the largest growing religious group, ahead of Christianity, and likely to make up nearly 3 billion people by 2060, while already estimated to encompass 24% of the world population (1). In other words, you seem to be judging a massive chunk of the world based off of terrorist groups that moderate Muslim leaders have already discredited and scolded through the open letter to Baghdad. However, if you want to talk about serious harm done to people in the US, there is actually a large amount of far-right extremist hate groups that is committed in comparison to Muslim groups. The Center for Investigative Reporting in June of 2017 found that groups that promote white nationalism, militias, and so-called patriot groups are responsible for the majority of these terror attacks on US soil, with far-right attacks outnumbering Muslim attacks by 2 times as much (2). Even the attacks that were planned by Muslim groups were regularly foiled, with over 70% of the planned attacks failing. The fear inherent in the US population when confronted by a difference of opinion or ideology has presented the biggest problem to our national security, and the fear of a disappearing Western world has sparked many to consider radical action against those who are different from the perceived norm. However, people don't realize the hypocrisy in their action as they literally participate in hurting others to further their own goals. Stop me if this sounds all too familiar. Yes, honor killings and subjection of women is a problem in the Muslim world, but religious ideology is hardly the cause. In fact, the application of Islam in radical regimes like Yemen, where women are subjected to second-class citizenship is the real problem. Moreover, the fact of the matter is that looking toward any religious text can give someone preconceptions about women. The National Online Resource Center on Violence Against Women shows some of these direct quotes from different religious texts that implicate the inferiority of people based on gender.
"Wives be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For
the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the
Savior. Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their
husbands" (Ephesians 5.22-24 NRSV). (3)

Also, as far as discrimination against people based on sexuality is concerned, there is no contest. Christianity has promoted homophobia on a widespread basis to the poin where it seriously impacted countries like Uganda. Violent homophobia has resulted in gay men being violently sodomized and tortured from policemen in Uganda, where it is outlawed to be gay as reported from the Independent in November of 2016 (4). While homosexuality has been banned in the country since 1952, the recent violence toward those who are homosexual is quite recent. The reason this has occurred is largely due to affiliates of the Christian church, like Scott Lively, who addressed citizens of Uganda at an anti-gay conference in 2009 that has led to the aptly titled "kill the gays law" as explained by the Southern Poverty Law Center (5). Although the original draft of the bill was struck down, which did ask of the death penalty for homosexuals, the new version of the bill outlawed the promotion of homosexuality (6). The Westboro Baptist Church, Family Research Council, and Christian Coalition have repeatedly bashed those who were homosexuals, some by protesting at people's funerals and holding up signs about how homosexuals are ruining America and should be put to death. This type of behavior has characterized the "Christian-right" for years, so as far as the spread of homophobia in concerned, Christianity is typically the main culprit, especially in the US. If you want to look toward early examples of "death cults," which I am guessing here means a group of people who like to express dominance over another culture, you can look toward the attempted Crusades that was done entirely out of political motivations to "take back the holy land." In fact, according to Dartmouth University, the Crusades have become an integral part of recruitment efforts and rhetoric spewed by ISIS (7). BY exhibiting an us-vs-them mentality, you increase fear, leading to control and complete subjection to an authoritarian rule regardless of personal opinions or thoughts.
Regardless of the "newspapers" that conclude otherwise, the actual data supports the idea that there is little causal link between Muslim affiliation and violence that inherently springs from being a moderate supporter of the ideology. The real problem is fundamentalism and fear, which controls and harms people.
1. http://www.pewforum.org...
2. (https://www.revealnews.org...)
3. (http://www.nhcadsv.org...)
4. (http://www.independent.co.uk...)
5. (https://www.splcenter.org...)
6. (http://www.aljazeera.com...)
7. (http://sites.dartmouth.edu...)
I am Jack's forum post."
keithprosser
Posts: 3,642
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7/18/2017 2:41:13 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.

There is another gem in the Bible tho' - at the end of Psalm 137 (by the rivers of babyon)

Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us [us=the exiled jews].
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

Lines strangely absent from the bony m version!

An excellent post blamonkey... 9/10 for content but 0/10 for layout. Paragraphs please!
Gentorev
Posts: 3,616
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7/18/2017 4:03:00 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)

blamonkey wrote............ I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well."

Gentorev responds............JHVW is a just God repaying good for good and evil for evil.
80 years prior to God demanding the death of all of Egypt's male first born, the Pharaoh had commanded the midwives who helped the Israelite women deliver their children, to kill all the male babies, but allow the girls to live. When this didn't work, he finally issued this command to his people: Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Exodus 1: 22: "Take every new born Hebrew boy and throw him into the Nile, but let all the girls live." -----------God's justice prevailed.

But that was not the only reason for killing all of the first born males in the land of Ham, who was the first born son of Noah, and who lost his birth right because of what Canaan the son of Ham, had done to Noah as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor. It was because of that act, that Shem received the blessing of first born.
The Tongue---the sharp two edged S-word that divides the spirit from the soul.
Yongy
Posts: 399
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7/18/2017 7:44:08 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/18/2017 4:03:00 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)

blamonkey wrote............ I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well."

Gentorev responds............JHVW is a just God repaying good for good and evil for evil.
80 years prior to God demanding the death of all of Egypt's male first born, the Pharaoh had commanded the midwives who helped the Israelite women deliver their children, to kill all the male babies, but allow the girls to live. When this didn't work, he finally issued this command to his people: Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Exodus 1: 22: "Take every new born Hebrew boy and throw him into the Nile, but let all the girls live." -----------God's justice prevailed.

: But that was not the only reason for killing all of the first born males in the land of Ham, who was the first born son of Noah, and who lost his birth right because of what Canaan the son of Ham, had done to Noah as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor. It was because of that act, that Shem received the blessing of first born.



An unpleasant fairy tale.
keithprosser
Posts: 3,642
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7/18/2017 8:45:12 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/18/2017 7:44:08 AM, Yongy wrote:

An unpleasant fairy tale.

If you accept that the bulk of the OT was cobbled together during the Babylonian exile, then it is reasonable to suppose that the Egyptian episode is moral-boosting propaganda, concocted (or at least very spiced up) to say 'Look at what happened the last time we were captured and enslaved by foreigners'.

The YHWHists priests and scribes were promising that what befell the Egyptians (or what the preists claim befell them) would soon also happen to the Babylonians - but only if the Jews remained faithful to YHWH. Of course being fauthdful to YHWH also meant those same priests keept their cushy and privileged jobs, but it would be too cynical to suggest self interest had anything to do with it!

We know that the exiled Jews wished bad things on the Babylonian children (Ps 137) so if the Egyptians are really just the Babylonians in disguise the the mythical child-murders of Exodus can be put in that context.

It sort of came true when the Persians conquerd the and the exiles returned to Jerusalem. But that was obviously just a coincidence. ;)
graceofgod
Posts: 6,103
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7/18/2017 9:20:12 AM
Posted: 4 days ago
At 7/18/2017 2:04:26 AM, blamonkey wrote:
ha ha ha islams hatred of violence when the papers are full every day with examples of muslim violence, the rapes on women and children in the papers every day, the killing of gays.... islam proves itself to be a hateful death cult every day...

I would recommend spell-checking before actually posting responses. I mean "islams" is not a word. Also, capitalize words when needed, otherwise you sound like an internet troll who just exists to antagonize those who disagree with him/her. Second, the claim that ISIS or other terrorist groups speak for all Muslims is clearly ridiculous. I have already shown you that moderate believers in Islam published an open letter to ISIS fighters and leaders outwardly criticizing their abhorrent practices. The Pew Research Center has concluded that Muslims are the largest growing religious group, ahead of Christianity, and likely to make up nearly 3 billion people by 2060, while already estimated to encompass 24% of the world population (1). In other words, you seem to be judging a massive chunk of the world based off of terrorist groups that moderate Muslim leaders have already discredited and scolded through the open letter to Baghdad. However, if you want to talk about serious harm done to people in the US, there is actually a large amount of far-right extremist hate groups that is committed in comparison to Muslim groups. The Center for Investigative Reporting in June of 2017 found that groups that promote white nationalism, militias, and so-called patriot groups are responsible for the majority of these terror attacks on US soil, with far-right attacks outnumbering Muslim attacks by 2 times as much (2). Even the attacks that were planned by Muslim groups were regularly foiled, with over 70% of the planned attacks failing. The fear inherent in the US population when confronted by a difference of opinion or ideology has presented the biggest problem to our national security, and the fear of a disappearing Western world has sparked many to consider radical action against those who are different from the perceived norm. However, people don't realize the hypocrisy in their action as they literally participate in hurting others to further their own goals. Stop me if this sounds all too familiar. Yes, honor killings and subjection of women is a problem in the Muslim world, but religious ideology is hardly the cause. In fact, the application of Islam in radical regimes like Yemen, where women are subjected to second-class citizenship is the real problem. Moreover, the fact of the matter is that looking toward any religious text can give someone preconceptions about women. The National Online Resource Center on Violence Against Women shows some of these direct quotes from different religious texts that implicate the inferiority of people based on gender.
"Wives be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For
the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the
Savior. Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their
husbands" (Ephesians 5.22-24 NRSV). (3)

Also, as far as discrimination against people based on sexuality is concerned, there is no contest. Christianity has promoted homophobia on a widespread basis to the poin where it seriously impacted countries like Uganda. Violent homophobia has resulted in gay men being violently sodomized and tortured from policemen in Uganda, where it is outlawed to be gay as reported from the Independent in November of 2016 (4). While homosexuality has been banned in the country since 1952, the recent violence toward those who are homosexual is quite recent. The reason this has occurred is largely due to affiliates of the Christian church, like Scott Lively, who addressed citizens of Uganda at an anti-gay conference in 2009 that has led to the aptly titled "kill the gays law" as explained by the Southern Poverty Law Center (5). Although the original draft of the bill was struck down, which did ask of the death penalty for homosexuals, the new version of the bill outlawed the promotion of homosexuality (6). The Westboro Baptist Church, Family Research Council, and Christian Coalition have repeatedly bashed those who were homosexuals, some by protesting at people's funerals and holding up signs about how homosexuals are ruining America and should be put to death. This type of behavior has characterized the "Christian-right" for years, so as far as the spread of homophobia in concerned, Christianity is typically the main culprit, especially in the US. If you want to look toward early examples of "death cults," which I am guessing here means a group of people who like to express dominance over another culture, you can look toward the attempted Crusades that was done entirely out of political motivations to "take back the holy land." In fact, according to Dartmouth University, the Crusades have become an integral part of recruitment efforts and rhetoric spewed by ISIS (7). BY exhibiting an us-vs-them mentality, you increase fear, leading to control and complete subjection to an authoritarian rule regardless of personal opinions or thoughts.
Regardless of the "newspapers" that conclude otherwise, the actual data supports the idea that there is little causal link between Muslim affiliation and violence that inherently springs from being a moderate supporter of the ideology. The real problem is fundamentalism and fear, which controls and harms people.
1. http://www.pewforum.org...
2. (https://www.revealnews.org...)
3. (http://www.nhcadsv.org...)
4. (http://www.independent.co.uk...)
5. (https://www.splcenter.org...)
6. (http://www.aljazeera.com...)
7. (http://sites.dartmouth.edu...)

you can argue with the spelling but the facts remain, islam is hateful in every way to everything but islam, even then it kills it's believers for all sorts of things including being gay, getting raped, if the woman is stupid enough to try and argue she was raped, suicide bombers, hands cut off, heads cut of, it knows nothing of tolerance and resides in the dark ages, where it's paedo , leader muhammered devised it...
blamonkey
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7/18/2017 6:39:58 PM
Posted: 3 days ago
At 7/18/2017 4:03:00 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)

blamonkey wrote............ I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well."

Gentorev responds............JHVW is a just God repaying good for good and evil for evil.
80 years prior to God demanding the death of all of Egypt's male first born, the Pharaoh had commanded the midwives who helped the Israelite women deliver their children, to kill all the male babies, but allow the girls to live. When this didn't work, he finally issued this command to his people: Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Exodus 1: 22: "Take every new born Hebrew boy and throw him into the Nile, but let all the girls live." -----------God's justice prevailed.

But that was not the only reason for killing all of the first born males in the land of Ham, who was the first born son of Noah, and who lost his birth right because of what Canaan the son of Ham, had done to Noah as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor. It was because of that act, that Shem received the blessing of first born.

The argument I was making is that religions, regardless of whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Shinto, or yes, even Islam, the holy scriptures embrace the killing of people. Many of these children were likely never guilty of anything. Also, murder is something that is supposed to be condemned in the bible. If I remember correctly, "Though shall not murder" is a rule that was so sacred that after Moses broke said rule, he ended up fleeing. If god is so merciful and just as people seem to claim when referencing the Bible, not only would he have only made those who allowed this cycle of slavery to continue, i.e. the Pharaoh, but female slaves wouldn't have to suffer either.
Also, the death of the cattle would likely harm everyone as less food would be a direct result of the plague. In other words, his argument is non-unique, I could easily show how the Christian deity also has done similar things to abusing babies according to its own holy text, and thus his criticism of Islam is unjustified.
I am Jack's forum post."
blamonkey
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7/18/2017 8:00:02 PM
Posted: 3 days ago
you can argue with the spelling but the facts remain, islam is hateful in every way to everything but islam, even then it kills it's believers for all sorts of things including being gay, getting raped, if the woman is stupid enough to try and argue she was raped, suicide bombers, hands cut off, heads cut of, it knows nothing of tolerance and resides in the dark ages, where it's paedo , leader muhammered devised it...

And yet, without reading any of my response or directly refuting it, you think you have an expert opinion on the entirety of Islam. Also, glad to see that you have not taken up my advice when it comes to spellcheck. Regardless, you seeing Islam as the problem and not fundamentalism of any religion has already destroyed your credibility. I have already proven that there are about 2 billion people identifying as Muslim, so your claim about the religion always embracing violence and intolerance can already be shown false.

Basically, the idea that you presented is based off cherry picked groups that no way speak for the entirety of Islam, as shown by the Open Letter from Baghdad that was signed by moderate Muslim leaders and scholars that denounced the radical actions that ISIS took to establish a caliphate. In other words, you falsely conflate the actions of ISIS, which harbors political goals that have nothing to do with believing in the Quran, and moderate practice of Islam in places like mosques.

Second, look at his claims about discrimination in regards to gender, sexuality etc. and realize that in the US, the militias and far-right wing groups are more likely to commit these crimes and be successful as as shown by my previous data gathered from the Center for Investigative Reporting. The idea that globally, ISIS has conducted far too many attacks on people is correct, but you know who else agrees with you? Moderate Muslims are likely to view groups like ISIS and Islamic Extremism unfavorably. The Pew Research Center in July of 2015 has shown that even n predominantly Muslim majority nations like Nigeria, Pakistan, Palestine, and Lebanon, there has been a massive increase in the public perception that fundamentalist Islam should be considered a threat, while also being virtually unanimous as far as public perceptions of ISIS being a threat, and many saying that the methods that ISIS uses in the name of Islam is unjustified (2). By ignoring the idea that people don't necessarily live their entire lives by the literal words in holy texts, my opponent leaves out the majority of supporters of Islam.

Also, the idea that groups like ISIS are even based in religion is somewhat fallacious. The Brookings Institute in April of 2016 published a report detailing the potential influences of many ISIS recruits. After all, the recent release of over 3,000 documents from internal ISIS sources, and the overwhelming majority of recruits rated their understanding and knowledge of Shariah law as weak (1). Not only this, but as pointed out by the Brookings Institute, there are other reasons that fighters swear allegiance to ISIS, including financial and political reasons that aren't immediately apparent because of the stigma in relation to being Muslim.

Finally, understand exactly what my opponent is saying in regards to certain Muslim nations, terror groups, and Islam as a whole. He/she is essentially saying that since all of these groups are considered Muslim, they speak for everyone with the same ideological leaning. But with Muslims making up so much of the World population and not everyone following the religion thinking of the Quran as anything more than general, useful principles to live life by, then clearly the idea of Muslims being categorized by the violent practices of other countries is flatly false. Under my opponent's logic, groups like the KKK would speak for all white protestants, as would other white nationalist hate groups. The Westboro Baptist Church would speak for all baptists and the Republican and Democratic party speak for everyone who affiliates with said party. This type of framing of his arguments lacks nuance, and is seriously limiting when trying to find the "truth" in the matter like my opponent wanted to do so in one of his original posts on this thread.

1. (https://www.brookings.edu...)

2. (http://www.pewresearch.org...)

All other sources used or referenced are from previous posts.
I am Jack's forum post."
Gentorev
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7/19/2017 12:08:03 AM
Posted: 3 days ago
At 7/18/2017 6:39:58 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 7/18/2017 4:03:00 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 7/17/2017 4:40:15 PM, blamonkey wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:09:25 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:03:31 PM, Mobutu wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:01:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
ayatollah khomieni especially his little green book, it shows how allah doesn't seem to mind babies being abused, it shows islam for what it is....

Izlamophobias!! Shut down the conversation!!!

truth should open a conversation...
Really? By declaring that the Muslim ideology supports the abuse of babies you "open up the conversation?" Well, regardless of your clear ulterior motive of trying to attack a major religion, I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well." (1)
Even if you were to claim that abuse of children can be adequately justified by the Quran, according to your own belief system, if god decides to commit murder against not just the Pharaoh, the only person who would be making the decision to let the Israelites go, but also the female slaves that gave birth to sons, I do not understand how the criticisms of the Quran in regards to abusing infants means anything. In fact, Shaykh Hassan Cisse, believer of Muslim Ideology, humanitarian activist and the founder of the African American Islamic Institute explains:
"When he (Muhammad) said, "Fear Allah and treat your children fairly (with equal justice)", he made the treatment of children part of being conscious of one"s duty to Allah. And, significantly, Islam put an end to the barbaric practice of burying girl babies alive."
Furthermore, it was stated that The Prophet, (in reference to Muhammad,) said to his followers
"Treat your children fairly.", and repeated it three times to emphasize its importance." (2)
However, the most telling part of modern Islam in regards to hatred of violence comes from the Baghdad Open Letter which criticized ISIS and its fighters for violating key parts of the Quran. This open letter was signed by countless, prominent, Muslim scholars and has generally been upheld as a clear example of how Muslim ideology has been shown to be against the type of violence that is exacerbated by terror groups masquerading behind an ideology, so support of the idea that people are following the Quran when they commit atrocities as part of a terror group is ridiculous, as even the open letter cites these fallacies that are evident from just reading the text. (3)
Even if you don't agree with some of the ideas presented by the Quran, clearly, there is little evidence supporting your claim about the Quran advocating for the killing of babies.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (http://aaii.info...)
3. (http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com...)

blamonkey wrote............ I would like your opinion on Exodus 11 verse 5 when it claims
"Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well."

Gentorev responds............JHVW is a just God repaying good for good and evil for evil.
80 years prior to God demanding the death of all of Egypt's male first born, the Pharaoh had commanded the midwives who helped the Israelite women deliver their children, to kill all the male babies, but allow the girls to live. When this didn't work, he finally issued this command to his people: Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Exodus 1: 22: "Take every new born Hebrew boy and throw him into the Nile, but let all the girls live." -----------God's justice prevailed.

But that was not the only reason for killing all of the first born males in the land of Ham, who was the first born son of Noah, and who lost his birth right because of what Canaan the son of Ham, had done to Noah as he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor. It was because of that act, that Shem received the blessing of first born.

The argument I was making is that religions, regardless of whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Shinto, or yes, even Islam, the holy scriptures embrace the killing of people. Many of these children were likely never guilty of anything. Also, murder is something that is supposed to be condemned in the bible. If I remember correctly, "Though shall not murder" is a rule that was so sacred that after Moses broke said rule, he ended up fleeing. If god is so merciful and just as people seem to claim when referencing the Bible, not only would he have only made those who allowed this cycle of slavery to continue, i.e. the Pharaoh, but female slaves wouldn't have to suffer either.
Also, the death of the cattle would likely harm everyone as less food would be a direct result of the plague. In other words, his argument is non-unique, I could easily show how the Christian deity also has done similar things to abusing babies according to its own holy text, and thus his criticism of Islam is unjustified.

His criticism of Islam is justified. Correct me if I am wrong, but do the prophets of any other religion demand that all who refuse to believe in their God must be killed?
The Tongue---the sharp two edged S-word that divides the spirit from the soul.
blamonkey
Posts: 58
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7/19/2017 1:00:59 AM
Posted: 3 days ago
His criticism of Islam is justified. Correct me if I am wrong, but do the prophets of any other religion demand that all who refuse to believe in their God must be killed?

That was not what he claimed. He said that Islam promoted the abuse of babies, I show how the Bible has its own religious deity that killed hundreds of children, many of whom are presumed to be innocent since they were cattle and slave's children. Also, depending on who you believe, the Christian deity may call you to do much of the same. Look at Deuteronomy 13:
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
(1)
This calls for the killing of people who worship others, even if they are friends. Look at my data in regards to extreme right-wing violence and hate groups for more data.
Even in the modern context, groups like the Westboro Baptist Church advocates the death penalty for Homosexuals.
"Mongrel Bush and his Battle of New Orleans...The Sovereign Horseman rides in New Orleans....Get Right with God! You are pouring gasoline on the raging infernos of God's wrath in Iraq and New Orleans...The only fruits meet for repentance in today"s circumstances are these: Completely rid your administration of f*gs and d*kes; and, recriminalize sodomy and abortion, and impose the death penalty for these crimes. Nothing less will do. Otherwise, we warn you again: Expect worse and more of it from that Outraged God your sins have mightily offended." " WBC Web site , June 9, 2006" (2)
In other words, god is angry at those who dare live different lifestyles than he intended and is calling on his followers to kill them. As long as claims that ISIS speaks for Islam and you deny the existence of moderate belief in Islam, then the extreme has to be true for Christianity too. Does this idea match with the holy text? Let's look at Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
I'd say that is accurate and fulfills your question.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (https://www.adl.org...)
3. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
I am Jack's forum post."
Gentorev
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7/19/2017 2:44:22 AM
Posted: 3 days ago
At 7/19/2017 1:00:59 AM, blamonkey wrote:
His criticism of Islam is justified. Correct me if I am wrong, but do the prophets of any other religion demand that all who refuse to believe in their God must be killed?

That was not what he claimed. He said that Islam promoted the abuse of babies, I show how the Bible has its own religious deity that killed hundreds of children, many of whom are presumed to be innocent since they were cattle and slave's children. Also, depending on who you believe, the Christian deity may call you to do much of the same. Look at Deuteronomy 13:
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
(1)
This calls for the killing of people who worship others, even if they are friends. Look at my data in regards to extreme right-wing violence and hate groups for more data.
Even in the modern context, groups like the Westboro Baptist Church advocates the death penalty for Homosexuals.
"Mongrel Bush and his Battle of New Orleans...The Sovereign Horseman rides in New Orleans....Get Right with God! You are pouring gasoline on the raging infernos of God's wrath in Iraq and New Orleans...The only fruits meet for repentance in today"s circumstances are these: Completely rid your administration of f*gs and d*kes; and, recriminalize sodomy and abortion, and impose the death penalty for these crimes. Nothing less will do. Otherwise, we warn you again: Expect worse and more of it from that Outraged God your sins have mightily offended." " WBC Web site , June 9, 2006" (2)
In other words, god is angry at those who dare live different lifestyles than he intended and is calling on his followers to kill them. As long as claims that ISIS speaks for Islam and you deny the existence of moderate belief in Islam, then the extreme has to be true for Christianity too. Does this idea match with the holy text? Let's look at Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
I'd say that is accurate and fulfills your question.
1. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)
2. (https://www.adl.org...)
3. (https://www.biblegateway.com...)

The argument you were making was that religions, regardless of whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Shinto, or yes, even Islam, their holy scriptures embrace the killing of people.

But the prophets of only one of the above mentioned, demand the killing of all, I repeat "ALL" the infidels who refuse to accept their god.

Those prophets, as you say, teach that those of the Islamic faith should love and care for the children born of the Islamic faith. But what of the children of the infidels who believe not in their god, and are to be killed because of their disbelief?

In Deuteronomy 13: JHWH, is referring to the false prophets of Israel and the brethren of Israel, who would try to persuade the chosen of God, to convert their belief to other gods, such as the Islamic god, who demands "ALL" who do not believe in him should be killed.
The Tongue---the sharp two edged S-word that divides the spirit from the soul.