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jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
don_juan
Posts: 32
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9/21/2015 7:57:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand. : :

Religion began the moment God had his people build the first false god with their human hands. His people did not know where their thoughts were coming from so they exalted the person who got the thoughts in his mind to look up into the night sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots. This is how God taught man to acquire building shapes to mold the first mud bricks into buildings.

These false gods, especially the modern technology we have today, were important to God to teach his Servant exactly how He created everything and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

So the purpose for life in this first age was only to teach us who we are and what His plan is for His creation in the future.

In the next age, life won't have any meaning other than just a ride we're all on for eternity.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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9/22/2015 7:18:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:57:16 PM, don_juan wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand. : :

Religion began the moment God had his people build the first false god with their human hands. His people did not know where their thoughts were coming from so they exalted the person who got the thoughts in his mind to look up into the night sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots. This is how God taught man to acquire building shapes to mold the first mud bricks into buildings.

These false gods, especially the modern technology we have today, were important to God to teach his Servant exactly how He created everything and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

So the purpose for life in this first age was only to teach us who we are and what His plan is for His creation in the future.

In the next age, life won't have any meaning other than just a ride we're all on for eternity.

The whole point of Jody's post, bog, was to explain that there isn't a next age for anyone, grow up, accept it and do the best you can in the only age we get.
Everyone misinterprets the Borg, what they actually say is "Religion is Futile"
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
smitten
Posts: 8
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9/22/2015 7:37:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:18:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:57:16 PM, don_juan wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand. : :

Religion began the moment God had his people build the first false god with their human hands. His people did not know where their thoughts were coming from so they exalted the person who got the thoughts in his mind to look up into the night sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots. This is how God taught man to acquire building shapes to mold the first mud bricks into buildings.

These false gods, especially the modern technology we have today, were important to God to teach his Servant exactly how He created everything and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

So the purpose for life in this first age was only to teach us who we are and what His plan is for His creation in the future.

In the next age, life won't have any meaning other than just a ride we're all on for eternity.

The whole point of Jody's post, bog, was to explain that there isn't a next age for anyone, grow up, accept it and do the best you can in the only age we get.
Everyone misinterprets the Borg, what they actually say is "Religion is Futile" : :

Jody isn't my Creator, bulfproof, the ONE I've been speaking for the past 7 years. She has no knowledge about the future and neither does anyone else on this planet. Only our Creator knows what's coming and He has used me to write and speak this knowledge in English so that His chosen believers can hear it directly from His program called Eternal Life.

I agree that religion is futile for teaching the future.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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9/22/2015 3:19:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:37:23 AM, smitten wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:18:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:57:16 PM, don_juan wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand. : :

Religion began the moment God had his people build the first false god with their human hands. His people did not know where their thoughts were coming from so they exalted the person who got the thoughts in his mind to look up into the night sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots. This is how God taught man to acquire building shapes to mold the first mud bricks into buildings.

These false gods, especially the modern technology we have today, were important to God to teach his Servant exactly how He created everything and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

So the purpose for life in this first age was only to teach us who we are and what His plan is for His creation in the future.

In the next age, life won't have any meaning other than just a ride we're all on for eternity.

The whole point of Jody's post, bog, was to explain that there isn't a next age for anyone, grow up, accept it and do the best you can in the only age we get.
Everyone misinterprets the Borg, what they actually say is "Religion is Futile" : :

Jody isn't my Creator, bulfproof, the ONE I've been speaking for the past 7 years. She has no knowledge about the future and neither does anyone else on this planet. Only our Creator knows what's coming and He has used me to write and speak this knowledge in English so that His chosen believers can hear it directly from His program called Eternal Life.

I agree that religion is futile for teaching the future.

Brad, even if an unseen creator is going to destroy the world, why do we even need to know if there aren't any real moral repercussions? Why would the creator have you tell us? And why would you use this site to spread such a vital message? Have you looked around at the people here? There are a handful of sane people posting here. It's not a true representation of what people really are. You might have better luck with people in a mental ward. At least they're medicated.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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9/22/2015 6:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.

Why is it necessary to be loved back? Feeling love and feeling loved are both personal emotions. Certainly external actions or the company of a companion can result in the feeling that one is loved. However, that is not where the feeling of being loved originates. It is a state of mind and originates in our psyche. A very powerful state indeed, but a state of mind all the same. I feel loved. Sometimes I feel unloved. I know where it comes from... me. And in that I find peace. Because I know what love really is, I love without the expectation that someone or something will be required to feel love in return. I love simply because it makes me feel happy and purposeful. I love because it is essential to emotional well being and thus survival. We're all wired that way. It's in our DNA.

I know what you will say. God is love and is essential to our survival. Worship your inner emotions if you like. I will appreciate mine in my own way.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/22/2015 6:45:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:31:12 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.

Why is it necessary to be loved back? Feeling love and feeling loved are both personal emotions. Certainly external actions or the company of a companion can result in the feeling that one is loved. However, that is not where the feeling of being loved originates. It is a state of mind and originates in our psyche. A very powerful state indeed, but a state of mind all the same. I feel loved. Sometimes I feel unloved. I know where it comes from... me. And in that I find peace. Because I know what love really is, I love without the expectation that someone or something will be required to feel love in return. I love simply because it makes me feel happy and purposeful. I love because it is essential to emotional well being and thus survival. We're all wired that way. It's in our DNA.

I know what you will say. God is love and is essential to our survival. Worship your inner emotions if you like. I will appreciate mine in my own way.

One must learn to love God without any motive, if I love God for some profit, then that is business not love.

That is real to love regardless of any nonsense, but simply for loves sake.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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9/22/2015 6:50:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:45:19 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:31:12 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.

Why is it necessary to be loved back? Feeling love and feeling loved are both personal emotions. Certainly external actions or the company of a companion can result in the feeling that one is loved. However, that is not where the feeling of being loved originates. It is a state of mind and originates in our psyche. A very powerful state indeed, but a state of mind all the same. I feel loved. Sometimes I feel unloved. I know where it comes from... me. And in that I find peace. Because I know what love really is, I love without the expectation that someone or something will be required to feel love in return. I love simply because it makes me feel happy and purposeful. I love because it is essential to emotional well being and thus survival. We're all wired that way. It's in our DNA.

I know what you will say. God is love and is essential to our survival. Worship your inner emotions if you like. I will appreciate mine in my own way.


One must learn to love God without any motive, if I love God for some profit, then that is business not love.

That is real to love regardless of any nonsense, but simply for loves sake.

John, you've been making some very good points here, however I would have to ask how one can love something intangible such as God? How and where does one apply their love of God? Is it prayer?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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9/22/2015 6:55:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:50:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:45:19 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:31:12 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.

Why is it necessary to be loved back? Feeling love and feeling loved are both personal emotions. Certainly external actions or the company of a companion can result in the feeling that one is loved. However, that is not where the feeling of being loved originates. It is a state of mind and originates in our psyche. A very powerful state indeed, but a state of mind all the same. I feel loved. Sometimes I feel unloved. I know where it comes from... me. And in that I find peace. Because I know what love really is, I love without the expectation that someone or something will be required to feel love in return. I love simply because it makes me feel happy and purposeful. I love because it is essential to emotional well being and thus survival. We're all wired that way. It's in our DNA.

I know what you will say. God is love and is essential to our survival. Worship your inner emotions if you like. I will appreciate mine in my own way.


One must learn to love God without any motive, if I love God for some profit, then that is business not love.

That is real to love regardless of any nonsense, but simply for loves sake.

John, you've been making some very good points here, however I would have to ask how one can love something intangible such as God? How and where does one apply their love of God? Is it prayer?

If I thought you could hold an intelligent discussion I would give you my full attention, but seeing as you trolled me over a single sentence for three days and refused to concede a simple point, I have lost all patience with you.

Sorry Daniel, but you brought it upon yourself.

Now please leave my posts alone and allow me to interact with others in peace.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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9/22/2015 7:15:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:55:58 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:50:12 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:45:19 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:31:12 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/22/2015 6:05:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

If you remove the concept of an afterlife, reward, punishment, persecution, right and wrong, then replace it with "God is love" then there is no purpose of worshipping God or attributing creation to God. If God is simply love, then why must he be worshiped and feared rather than enjoyed? Why is the Bible even necessary? We all have what it takes to love without it. If God is love, what needs to be fixed about human beings? We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate. (Psychiatrists might disagree with my last sentence if they study sociopaths). Maybe religion is necessary for sociopaths... nah.

If God is Love then why not love God? It's not about worship out of fear but out of a reciprocal state of bliss, There are those who have nobody to love, so God at least serves this purpose, the old adage that it is better to give than to receive, also works when we love, it is often better to love as it betters our own state of being, than to be loved and not able to learn to love back.

Why is it necessary to be loved back? Feeling love and feeling loved are both personal emotions. Certainly external actions or the company of a companion can result in the feeling that one is loved. However, that is not where the feeling of being loved originates. It is a state of mind and originates in our psyche. A very powerful state indeed, but a state of mind all the same. I feel loved. Sometimes I feel unloved. I know where it comes from... me. And in that I find peace. Because I know what love really is, I love without the expectation that someone or something will be required to feel love in return. I love simply because it makes me feel happy and purposeful. I love because it is essential to emotional well being and thus survival. We're all wired that way. It's in our DNA.

I know what you will say. God is love and is essential to our survival. Worship your inner emotions if you like. I will appreciate mine in my own way.


One must learn to love God without any motive, if I love God for some profit, then that is business not love.

That is real to love regardless of any nonsense, but simply for loves sake.

John, you've been making some very good points here, however I would have to ask how one can love something intangible such as God? How and where does one apply their love of God? Is it prayer?

If I thought you could hold an intelligent discussion I would give you my full attention, but seeing as you trolled me over a single sentence for three days and refused to concede a simple point, I have lost all patience with you.

Sorry Daniel, but you brought it upon yourself.


Now please leave my posts alone and allow me to interact with others in peace.

So sorry for the accolades I offered, John. I suppose there just isn't room in the Christian worldview for forgiveness. I had thought holding grudges for something as insignificant as claiming a victory over a point was quite un-Christlike behavior. Am I wrong about that?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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9/22/2015 7:21:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
True Religion is Sincerity of Faith with a love for Truth and Reality above all things, forgiveness and charity towards others.

The Spirit that leads into All Truth.

I assure you, it isn't arbitrary philosophical masturbatory BS. Never fully believe in BS of someone else. Never fully believe in your own BS. By BS, I of course mean, Belief System.

Religion isn't supposes to teach a belief system. It is supposed to get you to transcend belief system.

Gnosticism is considered a heresy you know. Christianity is an Agnostic Faith, and everything follows from that. Not Agnostic about the existence of God, no, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is The One God that is revered, and this is evident. It is understanding how God cannot be fully understood and known. This can only be fully realized by those who understand the nature of creation, or how it is that Human beings relate to God.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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9/22/2015 7:25:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:21:00 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
True Religion is Sincerity of Faith with a love for Truth and Reality above all things, forgiveness and charity towards others.
History puts the LIE to that nonsense.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/22/2015 7:53:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate.

I strongly disagree with that. Generally speaking humans have no love and don"t even know love. But perhaps you have defined love some other way than what is said in the Bible. When I look this world, is full of fear, hate and evilness.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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9/22/2015 7:53:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think everlasting life is poor and stupid reason to believe in the Bible and probably very pointless, because eternal life is for righteous, according to the Bible. If eternal life would be good reason, person could as well believe to some other thing that promises life.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/22/2015 7:56:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?

It's only irrelevant because you disagree. You made a statement that was contradicted by your own holy book so I pointed that out. Sorry you didn't like it but there it is.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/22/2015 7:57:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:53:53 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think everlasting life is poor and stupid reason to believe in the Bible and probably very pointless, because eternal life is for righteous, according to the Bible. If eternal life would be good reason, person could as well believe to some other thing that promises life.

Only religion promises life beyond death.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/22/2015 8:37:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:56:53 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?

It's only irrelevant because you disagree. You made a statement that was contradicted by your own holy book so I pointed that out. Sorry you didn't like it but there it is.

So you are not only trollish but lack basic reading comprehension.

God so loved the world... does NOT mean the purpose of one's life. You can't construe one to the other. You just say stuff, no understanding of the language or relevance.

It's not relevant becuase the words in the verse make it no where related to the meaning of life.

You and your ilk are too base to know that an action by God is not the same as saying what the meaning of life is. If it were you could rewrite it with synonyms making it say so.

Hey why not after every comment an Athiest like you makes I reply with ' Hitler said 'National Socialism and religion can not exist together'.

Good thing we have such great role models for living an irreligious life like Hitler and Xi Jingpin.

No if you comment, especially about the meaning of life for a given religion why don't you cite relevant scripture not what you read off poster board at a football game thinking it is that religion's meaning of life.

Seriously talk about building straw men.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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9/22/2015 9:04:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 8:37:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:56:53 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?

It's only irrelevant because you disagree. You made a statement that was contradicted by your own holy book so I pointed that out. Sorry you didn't like it but there it is.

So you are not only trollish but lack basic reading comprehension.

God so loved the world... does NOT mean the purpose of one's life. You can't construe one to the other. You just say stuff, no understanding of the language or relevance.

It's not relevant becuase the words in the verse make it no where related to the meaning of life.

You and your ilk are too base to know that an action by God is not the same as saying what the meaning of life is. If it were you could rewrite it with synonyms making it say so.

Hey why not after every comment an Athiest like you makes I reply with ' Hitler said 'National Socialism and religion can not exist together'.

Good thing we have such great role models for living an irreligious life like Hitler and Xi Jingpin.

No if you comment, especially about the meaning of life for a given religion why don't you cite relevant scripture not what you read off poster board at a football game thinking it is that religion's meaning of life.

Seriously talk about building straw men.

Funny how that verse is so prevalently quoted by theists to somehow show that God loved his creation more than his own son yet it's somehow irrelevant to the 'meaning of life'. Seriously, living beyond death is the focus of almost every religion. That's the carrot to the stick of either death or eternal torment. So yes, I comment on it because that's what I was taught and preached to about for a decade and half before I realized it was hokum. It's even in most Christian burial services. "In the sure and certain hope" that you'll see your loved one again. So that said, flake off if you can't offer more than that because you're spitting into the wind.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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9/22/2015 9:05:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 8:37:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:56:53 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?

It's only irrelevant because you disagree. You made a statement that was contradicted by your own holy book so I pointed that out. Sorry you didn't like it but there it is.

So you are not only trollish but lack basic reading comprehension.

God so loved the world... does NOT mean the purpose of one's life. You can't construe one to the other. You just say stuff, no understanding of the language or relevance.

It's not relevant becuase the words in the verse make it no where related to the meaning of life.

You and your ilk are too base to know that an action by God is not the same as saying what the meaning of life is. If it were you could rewrite it with synonyms making it say so.

Hey why not after every comment an Athiest like you makes I reply with ' Hitler said 'National Socialism and religion can not exist together'.

Good thing we have such great role models for living an irreligious life like Hitler and Xi Jingpin.

No if you comment, especially about the meaning of life for a given religion why don't you cite relevant scripture not what you read off poster board at a football game thinking it is that religion's meaning of life.

Seriously talk about building straw men.

Building straw men is what religions have been doing for centuries. I can say that now without fear of being burnt at the stake by loving religionists.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/22/2015 9:10:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 9:05:41 PM, desmac wrote:
At 9/22/2015 8:37:06 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:56:53 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/22/2015 7:52:11 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:25:51 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:21:21 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
...Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? ...

My reason to believe what the Bible tells is not meaning of life, or possible eternal life. I don"t" know will I get eternal life and it is not any problem for me if I don"t get it. My reason to believe is the wisdom and knowledge that Bible has. And I want to be loyal to God, because I see him as love and for me love is the greatest. Eternal life is not good reason to believe in the Bible.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Are you kidding? That's the primary reason for believing in the bible.

John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

That verse says nothing about our reason for being alive or purpose. It's a statement of God's action towards mankind.

Why don't you stay on topic and just answer the OP instead of muddying the waters with irrelevant commentary on anothers answer?

It's only irrelevant because you disagree. You made a statement that was contradicted by your own holy book so I pointed that out. Sorry you didn't like it but there it is.

So you are not only trollish but lack basic reading comprehension.

God so loved the world... does NOT mean the purpose of one's life. You can't construe one to the other. You just say stuff, no understanding of the language or relevance.

It's not relevant becuase the words in the verse make it no where related to the meaning of life.

You and your ilk are too base to know that an action by God is not the same as saying what the meaning of life is. If it were you could rewrite it with synonyms making it say so.

Hey why not after every comment an Athiest like you makes I reply with ' Hitler said 'National Socialism and religion can not exist together'.

Good thing we have such great role models for living an irreligious life like Hitler and Xi Jingpin.

No if you comment, especially about the meaning of life for a given religion why don't you cite relevant scripture not what you read off poster board at a football game thinking it is that religion's meaning of life.

Seriously talk about building straw men.

Building straw men is what religions have been doing for centuries. I can say that now without fear of being burnt at the stake by loving religionists.

Sure and I like fried chicken but Athiest for centuries been selling green jello which 9 out of 10 diary cows agree makes root beer taste bad.

Remember National Socialism and religion can not exist together. Adolph Hitler
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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9/22/2015 9:14:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand.

You totally missed how relevant religion is to modern life. Religion is therapeutic and believers are generally happier people than none believers. Religion involves social interaction and participation which is in contrast to the isolation experienced by individualism. Religion is transformational and even the most desperate and distraught can find peace and solace and be lifted from their despair. It is transformation because it helps people put aside their greed and selfishness and join in to celebrate our common humanity. Religion is an expression of appreciation and gratitude to a benevolent creator which inspires us to see the way the World should be and not the way it is with events such as wars and crimes against humanity that can be very self defeating.
You have missed out all that is good about religion and focused on division and pretensious intellectualism. You have spend so much time contemplation on what you descended from instead of aspiring to what you can ascent to.
Jesus changed the World forever with his simple teaching of universal love and forgiveness. To miss the power of purpose is to miss the essence of your being.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/22/2015 10:07:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand.

I completely agree with all of those points. It is clear how illogical religious belief is and also clear that religeon, The early attempt of humanity to understand it's existence and a huge evolutionary advantage is now the main thing holding humanity back. Despite the futility of religion I predict its demise will take a considerable time. Although some developed countries are seeing religion decline it is still engrained in the core culture of these areas, particularly marriage and death. Secular education and culture in developed countries will see this slowly decrease but I think disappearance will likely take thousands of years. The decline of religion is only possible in developed countries though. Unless people receive a good education they will not question the beliefs of their cultures and will go on believing in religion. As developing countries generally have higher birth rates then developed countries religion is not currently declining. Due to the instincts of humans a very clear case has to be presented to the average human to disprove religion. The only way to eliminate religion and all its evils is development of the economy in many of the worlds poorest countries, Secular education, government separation from religeon and a very long period of time.
jodybirdy
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9/23/2015 1:07:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 7:53:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:39:15 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
We love. Why does religion have to exist? Love is something all human beings experience and appreciate.

I strongly disagree with that. Generally speaking humans have no love and don"t even know love. But perhaps you have defined love some other way than what is said in the Bible. When I look this world, is full of fear, hate and evilness.

The love between a mother and her child. The love that children are able to convey without prejudice. The love that enables people, secular even, to be kind to a complete stranger in need. I'm not sure what world you are talking about. Perhaps you need to read something other than the bible and talk to people outside of a debate forum. You must not get out much. And I'm sorry if you were not shown love as a child. I'm also sorry if the people you pass on the street are not kind. There is a lot of love in this world. Perhaps you focus on the negative. Human beings have a huge capacity to love.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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9/23/2015 1:28:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

You do realize when you commence on telling other people what something is to them , you're merely projecting. "Religion is natural progression of fear and hope", simply means there was an event in your life that went from fear to hope. I shall not gather a guess as to what that was though.

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand.
jodybirdy
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9/23/2015 1:37:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 9:14:59 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:44:49 PM, jodybirdy wrote:
Religion is a natural progression of fear and hope: a complex, yet failed attempt to give life meaning. To understand this point you have to acknowledge the origins of religion. Modern religious dogma (as early as 6000 years ago to the present) evolved to what it is today from the earliest questions of man kind. The large frontal lobe of human beings ushered in creativity, complex reasoning, empathy, and inevitably the age old questions, "Why are we here... why do we suffer... where do we go when our bodies die?"

For the earliest man, the answers to these questions were unobtainable. They still are today. Emotionally we are not equipped to accept that perhaps it is all simply happenstance and we are the ones who give our lives true meaning. Or are we equipped to handle the truth, but choose not to out of fear that perhaps old philosophical and religious beliefs are true? I believe we are equipped to give our lives meaning, but that fear stands in our way.

Fear, a primal emotion that is necessary to survival. Flight or fight. It's not just an attribute of human beings. Most animals have it. Combine creativity with fear and you have superstition, paranoia, and prejudice... and I will put it bluntly, religion.

I read the arguments here and can't help but wonder at futility of it all. Have we not come to a place of emotional intelligence yet? Can we not accept our fate and live our lives knowing that only we, and nothing external can give our short lives meaning? For me it is a no brainer, but I see so many people looking outside of themselves for direction and meaning. We can't look to other people for that meaning, or we will be crushed. So human beings look to a powerful supernatural force outside of our world, a creator, a god, or multiple gods to give life meaning. Not just life on a grand scale, but life on a personal egotistical scale as well.

We can't help it! We have to give life positive meaning through supernatural beliefs. Or do we? Are we emotionally mature enough to accept that we as individuals give our lives positive meaning through our choices and our ability to contribute something good to world around us? Why is religion necessary for that action? It is arguable that religion causes quite a bit of strife and prejudice for the human race.

Is it just me, or does anyone else see religion as counterproductive? And if it isn't counterproductive in your opinion, please explain why so that I can understand.

You totally missed how relevant religion is to modern life. Religion is therapeutic and believers are generally happier people than none believers. Religion involves social interaction and participation which is in contrast to the isolation experienced by individualism. Religion is transformational and even the most desperate and distraught can find peace and solace and be lifted from their despair. It is transformation because it helps people put aside their greed and selfishness and join in to celebrate our common humanity. Religion is an expression of appreciation and gratitude to a benevolent creator which inspires us to see the way the World should be and not the way it is with events such as wars and crimes against humanity that can be very self defeating.
You have missed out all that is good about religion and focused on division and pretensious intellectualism. You have spend so much time contemplation on what you descended from instead of aspiring to what you can ascent to.
Jesus changed the World forever with his simple teaching of universal love and forgiveness. To miss the power of purpose is to miss the essence of your being.

1. Religion is not necessary.
2. You have absolutely no proof that believers are happier people than non believers.
3. Taking a hike in the mountains or down a beach is therapeutic as well. Religion treats the symptoms of depression... but not the disease itself. You might as well take a pill that makes you oblivious to reality. You'd be doing the same thing as with religion.
4. I am an atheist. I am surrounded by family, friends, love, and pets. I have a full happy life. Most atheists that I know have the same. Religion is not the only way to obtain a sense of community. It happens even without church.
5. We are all individuals. Individualism is healthy. Religion does not celebrate the individual opinions or ideas of anyone unless they lived thousands of years ago.
6. I haven't met a greedy atheist yet. And I know quite a few. Religion is not needed for people to demonstrate selflessness and/or kindness.
7. World events at the moment demonstrate that the worst crimes against humanity are happening in the very name of Allah (literal translation to English is GOD). AKA: RELIGION
8. The secular individuals who I personally encounter and know well are usually activists for human causes, animal rights, equality, and peace. No religion needed.
9. Appreciation for nature, standing in awe at the absolute beauty of life and the natural world we inhabit, or simply appreciating the life we have is something that religion is not needed for.
10. I have wasted no time aspiring to be the best that I can be through love, charity, even self sacrifice. What I ascended from is not what I am. I have not used religion to keep myself out of trouble. I have common sense for that.
11. Jesus has nothing to do with human love or compassion. The essence of my being is the footprint I leave behind me. It is my actions, my love, and my appreciation for life that gives me "essence", not Jesus.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."