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Cat Stevens -> Yusuf Islam

TBR
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9/25/2015 3:12:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The other day I was in a conversation where I said I had been personally effected by Islam in a negative way. Well, I just thought of another way.

Cat Stevens was (older-way older then me) a great guy. Some of the best songs ever written. He converted to Islam, and became a hostile man. Yes, Islam hurt...

I will leave you with, "How can I tell you..."
https://www.youtube.com...

A beautiful song written by a man who only a few years later would condone stoning.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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9/25/2015 3:17:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:12:59 AM, TBR wrote:
The other day I was in a conversation where I said I had been personally effected by Islam in a negative way. Well, I just thought of another way.

Cat Stevens was (older-way older then me) a great guy. Some of the best songs ever written. He converted to Islam, and became a hostile man. Yes, Islam hurt...

I will leave you with, "How can I tell you..."
https://www.youtube.com...

A beautiful song written by a man who only a few years later would condone stoning.

You need to update your knowledge by decades.
TBR
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9/25/2015 3:26:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
How so. he was a very great singer songwriter. Sitting listening to him with my 5 y.o. Some of the nicest stuff.
TBR
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9/25/2015 3:29:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Listening to "trouble" right not. Now I remember EXACTLY when I knew of him. It was first year of college at a showing of "Harold and Maude". WOW. That move, and Cat Stevens. Two great memories.
bulproof
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9/25/2015 3:41:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:26:57 AM, TBR wrote:
How so. he was a very great singer songwriter. Sitting listening to him with my 5 y.o. Some of the nicest stuff.

You have google? Use it, I remember him from buying his LP's and going to his concerts and I was devastated when he converted and changed and then a couple of decades ago the real Cat came back.
Google is your friend. I don't need it, I've lived it.
TBR
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9/25/2015 3:45:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:41:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:26:57 AM, TBR wrote:
How so. he was a very great singer songwriter. Sitting listening to him with my 5 y.o. Some of the nicest stuff.

You have google? Use it, I remember him from buying his LP's and going to his concerts and I was devastated when he converted and changed and then a couple of decades ago the real Cat came back.
Google is your friend. I don't need it, I've lived it.

Why such snark? He hasn't produced s**t since he converted. That is my point. He "Came back" as you can see him dragging his tired a$$ on stage, but he lost it.

Turn from "love" to "stone Salman Rushdie you loose some of that pure sole. Cant be talking about "Peace Train" with that on your back.
bulproof
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9/25/2015 3:52:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:45:03 AM, TBR wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:41:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:26:57 AM, TBR wrote:
How so. he was a very great singer songwriter. Sitting listening to him with my 5 y.o. Some of the nicest stuff.

You have google? Use it, I remember him from buying his LP's and going to his concerts and I was devastated when he converted and changed and then a couple of decades ago the real Cat came back.
Google is your friend. I don't need it, I've lived it.

Why such snark? He hasn't produced s**t since he converted. That is my point. He "Came back" as you can see him dragging his tired a$$ on stage, but he lost it.

Turn from "love" to "stone Salman Rushdie you loose some of that pure sole. Cant be talking about "Peace Train" with that on your back.

There wasn't any snark but since you insist on wearing your pig ignorance as a badge of honour I can start.
Nah you are most certainly not worth my wisdom, because you are immune to the acquisition of knowledge/wisdom.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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9/25/2015 4:22:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:03:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
- MONUMENTALLY RIDICULOUS. I am done!

Yeah, I have to agree. One isn't 'better' than the other; they're the same person...

It's actually quite creepy to see how the fact that he converted to another religion makes it acceptable to dehumanize him by basically treating him as a unique individual from his former self after the fact. It's equivalent to the tendency of the more cultish sects of modern religion to advocate the 'cutting out' of anyone who leaves; he's just departed Western culture instead.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Yassine
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9/25/2015 4:33:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:22:13 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:03:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
- MONUMENTALLY RIDICULOUS. I am done!

Yeah, I have to agree. One isn't 'better' than the other; they're the same person...

- Hating the religion that made your idol stop producing music you like is, well, a little bit too extreme!

It's actually quite creepy to see how the fact that he converted to another religion makes it acceptable to dehumanize him by basically treating him as a unique individual from his former self after the fact.

- THIS.

It's equivalent to the tendency of the more cultish sects of modern religion to advocate the 'cutting out' of anyone who leaves; he's just departed Western culture instead.

- Actually, many of his fans converted as well. They seemed to have been interested in what interested him, & upon inspection they liked what he liked & converted.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
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9/25/2015 4:51:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:33:52 AM, Yassine wrote:

- Actually, many of his fans converted as well. They seemed to have been interested in what interested him, & upon inspection they liked what he liked & converted.
Bullsh*t.
Yassine
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9/25/2015 4:54:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:51:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:33:52 AM, Yassine wrote:

- Actually, many of his fans converted as well. They seemed to have been interested in what interested him, & upon inspection they liked what he liked & converted.

Bullsh*t.

- Relax! I wasn't talking about you. I meant some other people.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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9/25/2015 3:09:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:22:13 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:03:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
- MONUMENTALLY RIDICULOUS. I am done!

Yeah, I have to agree. One isn't 'better' than the other; they're the same person...

It's actually quite creepy to see how the fact that he converted to another religion makes it acceptable to dehumanize him by basically treating him as a unique individual from his former self after the fact. It's equivalent to the tendency of the more cultish sects of modern religion to advocate the 'cutting out' of anyone who leaves; he's just departed Western culture instead.

I wonder though, had he decided to leave Islam,what treatment he would have received?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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9/25/2015 3:16:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:54:16 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:51:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:33:52 AM, Yassine wrote:

- Actually, many of his fans converted as well. They seemed to have been interested in what interested him, & upon inspection they liked what he liked & converted.

Bullsh*t.

- Relax! I wasn't talking about you. I meant some other people.

Your claim is still bullsh*t ,
I don't accept that lies are a valid defense for whatever you believe.
Yassine
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9/25/2015 3:28:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:16:29 PM, bulproof wrote:

Your claim is still bullsh*t ,
I don't accept that lies are a valid defense for whatever you believe.

- What are you talking about?! The guy converted to Islam, if you don't like it, that's on you. Why attack me!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
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9/25/2015 3:32:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:33:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:22:13 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:03:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
- MONUMENTALLY RIDICULOUS. I am done!

Yeah, I have to agree. One isn't 'better' than the other; they're the same person...

- Hating the religion that made your idol stop producing music you like is, well, a little bit too extreme!

It's actually quite creepy to see how the fact that he converted to another religion makes it acceptable to dehumanize him by basically treating him as a unique individual from his former self after the fact.

- THIS.

It's equivalent to the tendency of the more cultish sects of modern religion to advocate the 'cutting out' of anyone who leaves; he's just departed Western culture instead.

- Actually, many of his fans converted as well. They seemed to have been interested in what interested him, & upon inspection they liked what he liked & converted.

Greetings!

I had not heard that before, many of his die hard fans were shocked over his conversion to Islam and were shocked once again that he decided to give up music altogether, walking away from a recording contract and selling all of his guitars.

Based on your "Truce" thread and the rules contained within, could you please provide backing support for that claim? Thanks

Peace
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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9/25/2015 3:43:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:28:17 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:16:29 PM, bulproof wrote:

Your claim is still bullsh*t ,
I don't accept that lies are a valid defense for whatever you believe.

- What are you talking about?! The guy converted to Islam, if you don't like it, that's on you. Why attack me!

I didn't either attack you or Cat or Islam.
Whatever.
Yassine
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9/25/2015 3:43:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:32:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Greetings!

Hi! :)

I had not heard that before, many of his die hard fans were shocked over his conversion to Islam and were shocked once again that he decided to give up music altogether, walking away from a recording contract and selling all of his guitars.

- I would expect things like that to happen, naturally.

Based on your "Truce" thread and the rules contained within,

- Technically, this is not a [Truce] thread!

could you please provide backing support for that claim? Thanks.

- I've heard & read so many stories about individuals who were fans of the guy, & when he converted they decided to check what the fuss is all about. Some variants like this. Apparently, they seem to have liked what they've seen. I don't know any of these personally, so I can't really vouch for them. But, their stories can be found on the internet or on youtube. I don't have any links to show now.

- More importantly, I am curious to know what is so surprising about people being inspired by a convert choosing to convert as well?! Normally, his conversion ought to be more peculiar than theirs.

Peace.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/25/2015 3:44:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:43:12 PM, bulproof wrote:

I didn't either attack you or Cat or Islam.
Whatever.

- OK.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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9/25/2015 4:37:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:43:48 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:32:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Greetings!

Hi! :)

I had not heard that before, many of his die hard fans were shocked over his conversion to Islam and were shocked once again that he decided to give up music altogether, walking away from a recording contract and selling all of his guitars.

- I would expect things like that to happen, naturally.

Greetings!

It didn't really happen naturally, it was the result of a serious bout of tuberculosis followed by a near drowning that made Stevens suddenly give his life to looking for anything that might appease God, astrology, tarot, etc., he tried all kinds of things until his brother gave him a copy of the Quran. It could easily be argued that had he not experienced those tragedies in his life, the Quran would have just been another book.

Of course, even though he gave up playing music, he kept the 1.5 million dollars a year in royalties flowing into his bank account. And, he only gave up the music due to the disagreements imams were having over it, some said he could continue while others stated it as blasphemy.

Based on your "Truce" thread and the rules contained within,

- Technically, this is not a [Truce] thread!

I understand that, but don't you think your rules and regulations should cross over into all threads here? I don't think it would intellectual honest to have only one thread here in which to accommodate those rules. Don't you think?

could you please provide backing support for that claim? Thanks.

- I've heard & read so many stories about individuals who were fans of the guy, & when he converted they decided to check what the fuss is all about. Some variants like this. Apparently, they seem to have liked what they've seen. I don't know any of these personally, so I can't really vouch for them. But, their stories can be found on the internet or on youtube. I don't have any links to show now.

That was one of the reasons why I asked you, considering that many watched Stevens leave the music industry and were shocked and dismayed at his departure, his fans actually blamed Islam for his departure, they hardly found anything interesting about that.

- More importantly, I am curious to know what is so surprising about people being inspired by a convert choosing to convert as well?! Normally, his conversion ought to be more peculiar than theirs.

Peace.

It was very peculiar, especially when he gave his reasons for leaving. His fans were devastated, not to mention many of them were Christians.

Peace.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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9/25/2015 5:31:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 3:12:59 AM, TBR wrote:
The other day I was in a conversation where I said I had been personally effected by Islam in a negative way. Well, I just thought of another way.

Cat Stevens was (older-way older then me) a great guy. Some of the best songs ever written. He converted to Islam, and became a hostile man. Yes, Islam hurt...

I will leave you with, "How can I tell you..."
https://www.youtube.com...

A beautiful song written by a man who only a few years later would condone stoning.

lol because he found something more beautiful than songs! https://www.youtube.com...
Never fart near dog
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/25/2015 5:34:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
lol because he found something more beautiful than songs! https://www.youtube.com...

That music s**ks. Think he should try teaching Islamic guitar.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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9/25/2015 5:37:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 5:34:01 PM, TBR wrote:
lol because he found something more beautiful than songs! https://www.youtube.com...

That music s**ks. Think he should try teaching Islamic guitar.

https://www.youtube.com... try this :D
Never fart near dog
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/25/2015 5:42:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 5:37:49 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2015 5:34:01 PM, TBR wrote:
lol because he found something more beautiful than songs! https://www.youtube.com...

That music s**ks. Think he should try teaching Islamic guitar.

https://www.youtube.com... try this :D

Much better. Still no "trouble"
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/25/2015 5:47:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:22:13 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 9/25/2015 4:03:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
- MONUMENTALLY RIDICULOUS. I am done!

Yeah, I have to agree. One isn't 'better' than the other; they're the same person...

It's actually quite creepy to see how the fact that he converted to another religion makes it acceptable to dehumanize him by basically treating him as a unique individual from his former self after the fact. It's equivalent to the tendency of the more cultish sects of modern religion to advocate the 'cutting out' of anyone who leaves; he's just departed Western culture instead.

One is better to ME. That is the point. He produced great music. He stopped. The loss is personal.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/25/2015 5:48:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why such snark? He hasn't produced s**t since he converted. That is my point. He "Came back" as you can see him dragging his tired a$$ on stage, but he lost it.

Turn from "love" to "stone Salman Rushdie you loose some of that pure sole. Cant be talking about "Peace Train" with that on your back.

There wasn't any snark but since you insist on wearing your pig ignorance as a badge of honour I can start.
Nah you are most certainly not worth my wisdom, because you are immune to the acquisition of knowledge/wisdom.

What? This just seems a odd response.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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9/25/2015 6:07:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 5:31:54 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:12:59 AM, TBR wrote:
The other day I was in a conversation where I said I had been personally effected by Islam in a negative way. Well, I just thought of another way.

Cat Stevens was (older-way older then me) a great guy. Some of the best songs ever written. He converted to Islam, and became a hostile man. Yes, Islam hurt...

I will leave you with, "How can I tell you..."
https://www.youtube.com...

A beautiful song written by a man who only a few years later would condone stoning.

lol because he found something more beautiful than songs! https://www.youtube.com...

Most of the words on the video are of hatred of those who do not share their beliefs. You call that beautiful?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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9/25/2015 6:20:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:37:31 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:43:48 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/25/2015 3:32:02 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Greetings!

Hi! :)

I had not heard that before, many of his die hard fans were shocked over his conversion to Islam and were shocked once again that he decided to give up music altogether, walking away from a recording contract and selling all of his guitars.

- I would expect things like that to happen, naturally.

Greetings!

It didn't really happen naturally, it was the result of a serious bout of tuberculosis followed by a near drowning that made Stevens suddenly give his life to looking for anything that might appease God, astrology, tarot, etc., he tried all kinds of things until his brother gave him a copy of the Quran. It could easily be argued that had he not experienced those tragedies in his life, the Quran would have just been another book.

To be more specific. Stevens was swimming in the ocean and was caught in a rip tide. He struggled with fighting the current and became extremely exhausted. According to him he prayed out loud and said something to the effect that if you are up there God, save me and I will change my life for the better. After this plea, according to him, a huge wave came along and pushed or picked him up and sent him towards shore and out of the flow of the rip tide. Hence the conversion.

Of course, even though he gave up playing music, he kept the 1.5 million dollars a year in royalties flowing into his bank account. And, he only gave up the music due to the disagreements imams were having over it, some said he could continue while others stated it as blasphemy.

Based on your "Truce" thread and the rules contained within,

- Technically, this is not a [Truce] thread!

I understand that, but don't you think your rules and regulations should cross over into all threads here? I don't think it would intellectual honest to have only one thread here in which to accommodate those rules. Don't you think?

could you please provide backing support for that claim? Thanks.

- I've heard & read so many stories about individuals who were fans of the guy, & when he converted they decided to check what the fuss is all about. Some variants like this. Apparently, they seem to have liked what they've seen. I don't know any of these personally, so I can't really vouch for them. But, their stories can be found on the internet or on youtube. I don't have any links to show now.

That was one of the reasons why I asked you, considering that many watched Stevens leave the music industry and were shocked and dismayed at his departure, his fans actually blamed Islam for his departure, they hardly found anything interesting about that.

- More importantly, I am curious to know what is so surprising about people being inspired by a convert choosing to convert as well?! Normally, his conversion ought to be more peculiar than theirs.

Peace.

It was very peculiar, especially when he gave his reasons for leaving. His fans were devastated, not to mention many of them were Christians.

Peace.
Yassine
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9/25/2015 7:18:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/25/2015 4:37:31 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Salam,

It didn't really happen naturally,

- I meant, the reaction of the fans is only natural & is to be expected.

it was the result of a serious bout of tuberculosis followed by a near drowning that made Stevens suddenly give his life to looking for anything that might appease God, astrology, tarot, etc., he tried all kinds of things until his brother gave him a copy of the Quran. It could easily be argued that had he not experienced those tragedies in his life, the Quran would have just been another book.

- Many conversion stories begin like this.

Of course, even though he gave up playing music, he kept the 1.5 million dollars a year in royalties flowing into his bank account. And, he only gave up the music due to the disagreements imams were having over it, some said he could continue while others stated it as blasphemy.

- I don't know the details of his life, so I can't really respond to this. Also, there is indeed a disagreements about musical instruments in Islam, which are allowed & which aren't. Music is not blasphemy by any means.

That was one of the reasons why I asked you, considering that many watched Stevens leave the music industry and were shocked and dismayed at his departure, his fans actually blamed Islam for his departure, they hardly found anything interesting about that.

- Of course some fans are gonna be upset about the guy's switching his beliefs, especially to Islam! That's to be expected. However, not all fans had the same reaction. Some might indeed have been interested in what made their idol convert, & that might encourage them to convert as well, as some did eventually.

It was very peculiar, especially when he gave his reasons for leaving. His fans were devastated, not to mention many of them were Christians.

- I guess he was very popular then. & I reckon they would've had a different reaction if he turned to buddhism or taoism or judaism or something other than Islam!

Peace.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...