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All Religions are Metaphysically the Same.

Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/27/2015 4:35:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 1:37:31 PM, SoulEquality wrote:
Visit SoulEquality.wordpress.com for The Truth (PDF.) & Zeitgeist (PDF.)

Shame I was hoping to discuss this
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/27/2015 11:42:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 4:35:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/27/2015 1:37:31 PM, SoulEquality wrote:
Visit SoulEquality.wordpress.com for The Truth (PDF.) & Zeitgeist (PDF.)

Shame I was hoping to discuss this

- Let's.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/28/2015 2:59:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 11:42:04 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 4:35:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/27/2015 1:37:31 PM, SoulEquality wrote:
Visit SoulEquality.wordpress.com for The Truth (PDF.) & Zeitgeist (PDF.)

Shame I was hoping to discuss this

- Let's.

I know it's a trend in many churches to state that all paths lead to the same God. I find this hard to accept.

What I think is more likely is that the truth is unknown to mankind. That many strive to understand and seek it out.

For instance if we look at other truths, How many trial and errors it took to understand the motion of the planets and solar system. And still even with relativity there are some inconsistencies with the current model.

But concepts such as a flat earth can only be described as falsehood.

When trying to decide on a manner to colonize the moon, if we tread with the concept of flat earth we will wholly end in destruction. Proceeding with the idea that solar system is heliocentric we will gain a modicum of success.

When it comes to a deity, I think the same way. I don't imagine any one religion has it 100% accurate. But certainly some better than others and at least close enough to spring board off of.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/28/2015 9:36:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 2:59:43 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I know it's a trend in many churches to state that all paths lead to the same God. I find this hard to accept.

- For me, it's yes & no. Yes, all paths would originally lead to God, & no they don't. We believe that all God's religions have the same origin & hold the same message, only time has separated them.

What I think is more likely is that the truth is unknown to mankind. That many strive to understand and seek it out.

- Sounds good. I would say, Prophets are an exception.

For instance if we look at other truths, How many trial and errors it took to understand the motion of the planets and solar system. And still even with relativity there are some inconsistencies with the current model.

- True.

But concepts such as a flat earth can only be described as falsehood.

When trying to decide on a manner to colonize the moon, if we tread with the concept of flat earth we will wholly end in destruction. Proceeding with the idea that solar system is heliocentric we will gain a modicum of success.

- You mean to say, religion is like golf. It's unlikely that you hit the centre, but try to at least get the ball close enough.

When it comes to a deity, I think the same way. I don't imagine any one religion has it 100% accurate.

- We do believe that indeed. Although, we also believe all God's religions were originally 100% true, & still have some truth to them now.

But certainly some better than others and at least close enough to spring board off of.

- So, do you or do you not agree with the title of this thread?
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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9/28/2015 10:22:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 9:36:06 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/28/2015 2:59:43 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I know it's a trend in many churches to state that all paths lead to the same God. I find this hard to accept.

- For me, it's yes & no. Yes, all paths would originally lead to God, & no they don't. We believe that all God's religions have the same origin & hold the same message, only time has separated them.

What I think is more likely is that the truth is unknown to mankind. That many strive to understand and seek it out.

- Sounds good. I would say, Prophets are an exception.

For instance if we look at other truths, How many trial and errors it took to understand the motion of the planets and solar system. And still even with relativity there are some inconsistencies with the current model.

- True.

But concepts such as a flat earth can only be described as falsehood.

When trying to decide on a manner to colonize the moon, if we tread with the concept of flat earth we will wholly end in destruction. Proceeding with the idea that solar system is heliocentric we will gain a modicum of success.

- You mean to say, religion is like golf. It's unlikely that you hit the centre, but try to at least get the ball close enough.

When it comes to a deity, I think the same way. I don't imagine any one religion has it 100% accurate.

- We do believe that indeed. Although, we also believe all God's religions were originally 100% true, & still have some truth to them now.

But certainly some better than others and at least close enough to spring board off of.

- So, do you or do you not agree with the title of this thread?

If we define religion as a man system of tenets and rituals. Then define metaphysical as the underlining truth to reality. As you can see Religion is a cultural invention instead of a epistemological endeavor. So let us ask does all sincere and faithful worship lead metaphysically to the same end?

Then I still would disagree. While I think in ages past mankind had a closer relationship God, I take this be so far before the writing of the Torah or the Bible, or the Quoran that I find it highly unlikely all point to the same truth.

Especially since I believe there is a war between the will of god and the wickedness of mankind. A war that has perverted and twisted much.

I do not think Allah and the Christian prayers lead tot he same Jewish God.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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9/29/2015 8:54:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 10:22:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/28/2015 9:36:06 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/28/2015 2:59:43 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I know it's a trend in many churches to state that all paths lead to the same God. I find this hard to accept.

- For me, it's yes & no. Yes, all paths would originally lead to God, & no they don't. We believe that all God's religions have the same origin & hold the same message, only time has separated them.

What I think is more likely is that the truth is unknown to mankind. That many strive to understand and seek it out.

- Sounds good. I would say, Prophets are an exception.

For instance if we look at other truths, How many trial and errors it took to understand the motion of the planets and solar system. And still even with relativity there are some inconsistencies with the current model.

- True.

But concepts such as a flat earth can only be described as falsehood.

When trying to decide on a manner to colonize the moon, if we tread with the concept of flat earth we will wholly end in destruction. Proceeding with the idea that solar system is heliocentric we will gain a modicum of success.

- You mean to say, religion is like golf. It's unlikely that you hit the centre, but try to at least get the ball close enough.

When it comes to a deity, I think the same way. I don't imagine any one religion has it 100% accurate.

- We do believe that indeed. Although, we also believe all God's religions were originally 100% true, & still have some truth to them now.

But certainly some better than others and at least close enough to spring board off of.

- So, do you or do you not agree with the title of this thread?

If we define religion as a man system of tenets and rituals. Then define metaphysical as the underlining truth to reality. As you can see Religion is a cultural invention instead of a epistemological endeavor. So let us ask does all sincere and faithful worship lead metaphysically to the same end?

Then I still would disagree. While I think in ages past mankind had a closer relationship God, I take this be so far before the writing of the Torah or the Bible, or the Quoran that I find it highly unlikely all point to the same truth.

Especially since I believe there is a war between the will of god and the wickedness of mankind. A war that has perverted and twisted much.

I do not think Allah and the Christian prayers lead tot he same Jewish God.

If one were to look at religion as metaphors, poetry, allegories, etc (a tool for humans to try and explain the supernatural) ... couldn't it at least lead to one answer: Spirituality? I believe that we are not suppose to know what happens to us, but being spiritual creatures the hints are within our own imagination (some more than others). Yet, being apart of a "human" imagination other things come with such as greed, fame, ego.. etc. That is where religion would be separated; purely man made (such as Allah to the Jewish god analogy you mentioned). However, the concept of spirituality is interesting and can carry some weight. I feel if it is a religion that cannot make sense of the whole it is on the wrong path... Spirituality makes sense of the whole human race if we are all spiritual beings.

It's almost like all the fantasy books written now ... there may be a bunch of different universes but it all boils down to the author. And, the author can collaborate with different views if he/she wants ... like Marvels v. DC comics (combining two universes). I think that is a good analogy to what i am trying to say.. That there is not one answer, but many depending on who the viewer is. The one answer could simply be that everyone is right only in regards to what they believe will happen to them... What you live this life to achieve, or your final belief. It's a fact you leave this world as you, so why wouldn't it not be logical to think that it is also your beliefs that leave with you? (Which can be many depending on the observer/author). If you think about it... you can also spiritually collaborate.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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9/29/2015 9:06:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 11:42:04 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 4:35:43 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 9/27/2015 1:37:31 PM, SoulEquality wrote:
Visit SoulEquality.wordpress.com for The Truth (PDF.) & Zeitgeist (PDF.)

Shame I was hoping to discuss this

- Let's.

If one were to look at religion as metaphors, poetry, allegories, etc (a tool for humans to try and explain the supernatural) ... couldn't it at least lead to one answer: Spirituality? I believe that we are not suppose to know what happens to us, but being spiritual creatures the hints are within our own imagination (some more than others). Yet, being apart of a "human" imagination other things come with such as greed, fame, ego.. etc. That is where religion would be separated; purely man made (such as Allah to the Jewish god analogy you mentioned). However, the concept of spirituality is interesting and can carry some weight. I feel if it is a religion that cannot make sense of the whole it is on the wrong path... Spirituality makes sense of the whole human race if we are all spiritual beings.

It's almost like all the fantasy books written now ... there may be a bunch of different universes but it all boils down to the author. And, the author can collaborate with different views if he/she wants ... like Marvels v. DC comics (combining two universes). I think that is a good analogy to what i am trying to say.. That there is not one answer, but many depending on who the viewer is. The one answer could simply be that everyone is right only in regards to what they believe will happen to them... What you live this life to achieve, or your final belief. It's a fact you leave this world as you, so why wouldn't it not be logical to think that it is also your beliefs that leave with you? (Which can be many depending on the observer/author). If you think about it... you can also spiritually collaborate.

(I thought i'd also ask you what you think of my speculation).
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/29/2015 9:22:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We can be confident that metaphysics have remained fairly consistent across the history of our universe, because many elements of metaphysics have big physical impacts if they change even a little -- and those impacts would leave significant traces.

So we can treat metaphysics as constant, without necessarily understanding how they work.

However, if we proceed as theology does: by assuming what the metaphysics are, and then recognising only information that confirms this assumption, why should any theology progress to anything useful, let alone converging to a single truth?
gods_angel
Posts: 27
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9/29/2015 9:38:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/29/2015 9:22:34 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
We can be confident that metaphysics have remained fairly consistent across the history of our universe, because many elements of metaphysics have big physical impacts if they change even a little -- and those impacts would leave significant traces.

So we can treat metaphysics as constant, without necessarily understanding how they work.

However, if we proceed as theology does: by assuming what the metaphysics are, and then recognising only information that confirms this assumption, why should any theology progress to anything useful, let alone converging to a single truth? : :

I can show you how God used material objects to get us to understand the metaphysics that can't be seen. That is, if you're open-minded enough to absorb this information.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/29/2015 11:24:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/29/2015 9:38:01 PM, gods_angel wrote:
At 9/29/2015 9:22:34 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
We can be confident that metaphysics have remained fairly consistent across the history of our universe, because many elements of metaphysics have big physical impacts if they change even a little -- and those impacts would leave significant traces.

So we can treat metaphysics as constant, without necessarily understanding how they work.

However, if we proceed as theology does: by assuming what the metaphysics are, and then recognising only information that confirms this assumption, why should any theology progress to anything useful, let alone converging to a single truth? : :

I can show you how God used material objects to get us to understand the metaphysics that can't be seen. That is, if you're open-minded enough to absorb this information.

I think using God to explain metaphysics to validate God is circular, GA. I prefer to live without circularity if I can.
cameraman
Posts: 27
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9/29/2015 11:35:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/29/2015 11:24:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 9/29/2015 9:38:01 PM, gods_angel wrote:
At 9/29/2015 9:22:34 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
We can be confident that metaphysics have remained fairly consistent across the history of our universe, because many elements of metaphysics have big physical impacts if they change even a little -- and those impacts would leave significant traces.

So we can treat metaphysics as constant, without necessarily understanding how they work.

However, if we proceed as theology does: by assuming what the metaphysics are, and then recognising only information that confirms this assumption, why should any theology progress to anything useful, let alone converging to a single truth? : :

I can show you how God used material objects to get us to understand the metaphysics that can't be seen. That is, if you're open-minded enough to absorb this information.

I think using God to explain metaphysics to validate God is circular, GA. I prefer to live without circularity if I can. : :

You can blame it on the head moderator for banning gods_angel, Ruv.

Everything we perceive came from the mind of our Creator so He's the only one who can explain metaphysics. He started by teaching His people how to build objects with their human hands. He was the one who gave these people thoughts in their mind to look up into the night sky to get building shapes to build things with.

Thoughts are metaphysical because they cannot be contained or observed unless those thoughts are written, spoken, drawn, painted, sung, or put into bodily actions.

All thoughts come from the mind of our Creator so He's the only one who can explain how He created everything. Now that we have the computer and computer programs that our Creator taught His people to build, He can use them to teach me exactly how He created everything.

So from metaphysical thoughts, our Creator was able to teach His people to build the modern technology we have in place today to teach us many things about the future and how He created everything.

Belief is all that's required to learn how our Creator created everything in His virtual program called Eternal Life. The Sims game is a perfect man built object to explain how we were created as characters.

It's very humbling to learn that we're not real people, Ruv.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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9/29/2015 11:52:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/29/2015 11:35:17 PM, cameraman wrote:
It's very humbling to learn that we're not real people, Ruv.

I agree that what we think of as self is unlikely to be real, Brad. However, my reasons for thinking so are different to yours. :)

Hope you're well.
cameraman
Posts: 27
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9/30/2015 12:45:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/29/2015 11:52:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 9/29/2015 11:35:17 PM, cameraman wrote:
It's very humbling to learn that we're not real people, Ruv.

I agree that what we think of as self is unlikely to be real, Brad. However, my reasons for thinking so are different to yours. :)

Hope you're well. : :

I'm doing very well my friend. I've been spending a lot of time with my grandchildren, which is something I've always wanted to do when I got older.

You have to understand that I enjoy life more now than ever before because I understand where we came from. Everything looks real to me, too. I'm glad that our Creator created everything to be so real-like. However, in the next age, we'll be experiencing things that we would definitely believe aren't real in this age.

When you start flying like an eagle in Paradise, then you will understand what I'm talking about.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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9/30/2015 2:16:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 1:37:31 PM, SoulEquality wrote:
Visit SoulEquality.wordpress.com for The Truth (PDF.) & Zeitgeist (PDF.)

Anyone who thinks Islam, Judaism and Christianity are the same has not studied them. 2 permit no lying. One permits lying. 2 admonish murder. One supports it. One says we are free. One says we are slaves. One speaks of a sexual Heaven with many hot babes. One says men and women are not married or any such idea in Heaven. One believes Jesus is god in human flesh. 2 disbelieve and JW's think of Jesus not as devine as most Christians do. These religions are in very few ways similar. Shall we delve into Urantia, Mormonism, Catholicism, Hinduism or Buhdism? How about Satanists, Wicans, Atheists and Agnostics. Fundamentally the same? Based on what?