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Do Atheists Find this Religious Practice Okay

IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/27/2015 10:14:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned
through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference"applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not
Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam.

Quran 3:28 or Quran"3:28"are two different translations of the Quran verse and"says exactly the same in summary:

"Let not the believers (muslims) take the unbelievers for friends, or their companions instead"for the believers (muslims): if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They
does not represent islam anymore and can be killed ]: unless muslims take precautions, and plays"fake (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim's) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

One of the so-called largest Islamic commentators and historians of all "Ibn Kathir"commented the above sura (chapter) 3 and verse 28 of the Quran and said that "muslims are allowed to show friendship"outwardly, but never inwardly)." . Another renowned scholar among muslims, "Al-Bukhari" commented by saying that "We[muslims] smile in the face of some people[non-muslims] although our hearts curse them".

You can check it yourself in the tafsir explanation of the Quran among others at about line or paragraph number 8 here:
http://abdurrahman.org...
or"here:
http://www.qtafsir.com...

The Quran that Muhammad dictated clearly states in many places that Allah is the greatest cheater, scamer, illusionist and liar among them all. From The Quran 8:17, we get"
confirmed that Allha is"all muslims since Islam and the Quran requires that all muslims in reality are obliged to emulate Muhammad since he"created Allha and because 90% of the Quran is about Muhammad"and only 10% of Allah. It is therefore easy to understand why muslims cultivates what's in the Koran. Muhammad = Allha = muslims. Which gives us the explanation of why all muslims support the lies, deception, illusion, terror, murder of people, threats, slavery and oppression to take over the world and exterminate all other belief systems. 1400 years of Islamic barbaric war history shows the same.

There are many other verses that encourages and legitimizes deception and lies here:
http://prophetofdoom.net...

Western countries are seen as war areas (Dar al-Harb) and considered it until Islam has taken over the state or region by means of lies, deception, illusion, sedition, riots, infiltration, damage to weaken the economy, murders, mutilation, oppression, rape, humiliating etc. This age-old political and ideological fascism work very divisive (divide and rule) and the demobilization of the western society when Muslims attack on all fronts in our everyday lifes
.
In short, they are all ideological methods and tricks permitted to use and they are increasing in pace and strength with increasing power and demography in the countries they infiltrate and eventually take over and govern with the help of fascism, screeds (genocide), oppression and slavery etc."

Never forget the magic word "Taqiyya" because it is essentially important to understand why misinformed, disillusioned and insecure classes of the western world are deceived and deceive time and again throughout history. You should read the entire text, and then watch the videos and other documents of the Internet pages that are posted below.

A idiologi that Islam contains tools that relgion, jihad (holy war), politics, high birth rates, manipulation, infiltration, planting of conflicting information, as needed, history falsification, denial of self religion, political correctness, self-pity, propaganda, charm offensive's in addition to lying and deception as a main instrument. This was all about, and includes continued extensive use of lies and deception. In older times as today, islam and muslims take new instrument in use to achieve that other nations, cultures and people submit to Islam, both in technology, research, education and politics etc.
UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 10:36:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 10:14:54 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned
through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference"applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not
Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam.

Quran 3:28 or Quran"3:28"are two different translations of the Quran verse and"says exactly the same in summary:

"Let not the believers (muslims) take the unbelievers for friends, or their companions instead"for the believers (muslims): if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They
does not represent islam anymore and can be killed ]: unless muslims take precautions, and plays"fake (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim's) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

One of the so-called largest Islamic commentators and historians of all "Ibn Kathir"commented the above sura (chapter) 3 and verse 28 of the Quran and said that "muslims are allowed to show friendship"outwardly, but never inwardly)." . Another renowned scholar among muslims, "Al-Bukhari" commented by saying that "We[muslims] smile in the face of some people[non-muslims] although our hearts curse them".

You can check it yourself in the tafsir explanation of the Quran among others at about line or paragraph number 8 here:
http://abdurrahman.org...
or"here:
http://www.qtafsir.com...

The Quran that Muhammad dictated clearly states in many places that Allah is the greatest cheater, scamer, illusionist and liar among them all. From The Quran 8:17, we get"
confirmed that Allha is"all muslims since Islam and the Quran requires that all muslims in reality are obliged to emulate Muhammad since he"created Allha and because 90% of the Quran is about Muhammad"and only 10% of Allah. It is therefore easy to understand why muslims cultivates what's in the Koran. Muhammad = Allha = muslims. Which gives us the explanation of why all muslims support the lies, deception, illusion, terror, murder of people, threats, slavery and oppression to take over the world and exterminate all other belief systems. 1400 years of Islamic barbaric war history shows the same.


There are many other verses that encourages and legitimizes deception and lies here:
http://prophetofdoom.net...


Western countries are seen as war areas (Dar al-Harb) and considered it until Islam has taken over the state or region by means of lies, deception, illusion, sedition, riots, infiltration, damage to weaken the economy, murders, mutilation, oppression, rape, humiliating etc. This age-old political and ideological fascism work very divisive (divide and rule) and the demobilization of the western society when Muslims attack on all fronts in our everyday lifes
.
In short, they are all ideological methods and tricks permitted to use and they are increasing in pace and strength with increasing power and demography in the countries they infiltrate and eventually take over and govern with the help of fascism, screeds (genocide), oppression and slavery etc."

Never forget the magic word "Taqiyya" because it is essentially important to understand why misinformed, disillusioned and insecure classes of the western world are deceived and deceive time and again throughout history. You should read the entire text, and then watch the videos and other documents of the Internet pages that are posted below.

A idiologi that Islam contains tools that relgion, jihad (holy war), politics, high birth rates, manipulation, infiltration, planting of conflicting information, as needed, history falsification, denial of self religion, political correctness, self-pity, propaganda, charm offensive's in addition to lying and deception as a main instrument. This was all about, and includes continued extensive use of lies and deception. In older times as today, islam and muslims take new instrument in use to achieve that other nations, cultures and people submit to Islam, both in technology, research, education and politics etc.

"Can a believer be a coward? He said, "Yes, he can be coward. Then it was asked [To Muhammad] whether a believer could be a miser? He replied, "Yes, he can be a miser", it was then asked whether a believer could be a liar? He replied, "No, a believer cannot be a liar."
(Imam Malik, Mishkaat)

Taqqiya is only an aspect of the Shia branch, whom make up only 10-20% of the Muslim population. Not only that, but it doesn't even have to do with lying about Islam to non-believers, it just has to do with lying to save one's life.

Hazrat Abu Hurairah (Radhiyallaahu Anhu) narrates, in a hadith, that the Prophet (PBUH) said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three; whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; if you have trust in him, he proves to be dishonest."

In another hadith narrated by Hazrat Abu Hurairah(Radhiyallaahu Anhu), Prophet (PBUH) said, "Whoever does not give up false statements (i.e. telling lies), and evil deeds, and uttering bad words to others, Allah is not in need of his (fasting) leaving his food and drink."

Hazrat Abdullah ibn Umar narrates that Allah"s Messenger(PBUH) said,

"When a man lies, the angel moves a mile from him because of the bad odour of what he has produced." Samura bin Jundub relates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"I saw (in a dream), two men came to me." Then the Prophet(PBUH) narrated the story (saying), "They said, `The person, the one whose cheek you saw being torn away (from the mouth to the ear) was a liar and used to tell lies and the people would report those lies on his authority till they spread all over the world. So he will be punished like that till the day of Ressurrection.`"

Abdullah narrates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar."

http://quran.com......

Quran Surat Noor verse 7: "And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars"
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
RuvDraba
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9/27/2015 10:48:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 10:14:54 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world.

All theological doctrine lies, IvS. The moment it claim that a god exists -- and that this is an incontestible truth and not simply an unprovable conjecture, they are lying to claim authority.

And moreover, religious zealots of many faiths don't just want the freedom of worship, but dominion -- an ambition frequently hidden while adherents surreptitiously pursue hegemonistic privileges.

This isn't news, and it's certainly not specific to Islam. The moment a faith opposes gay marriage, or prescribes religious indoctrination for children, or agitates for a blasphemy law, or circumcises an infant, or legislates who can work or trade on what religious dates, it's the pursuit of dominion, and not simply the freedom of worship.

This is the world we live in. A world of intolerance, conceit and dishonesty.
Yassine
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9/28/2015 12:32:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/27/2015 10:48:48 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

- You're normally a reasonable person RuvDraba, that until you start speaking about religion. Your words suddenly turn into gibberish"

All theological doctrine lies, IvS. The moment it claim that a god exists -- and that this is an incontestible truth and not simply an unprovable conjecture, they are lying to claim authority.

- That is a very self-righteous & dogmatic claim you're making.

And moreover, religious zealots of many faiths don't just want the freedom of worship, but dominion -- an ambition frequently hidden while adherents surreptitiously pursue hegemonistic privileges.

- "zealots" who?

This isn't news, and it's certainly not specific to Islam.

- What it is that isn't? Do you even know what you're talking about?!

The moment a faith opposes gay marriage, or prescribes religious indoctrination for children, or agitates for a blasphemy law, or circumcises an infant, or legislates who can work or trade on what religious dates, it's the pursuit of dominion, and not simply the freedom of worship.

- All these stem from a dogmatic & a supremacist point of view.

This is the world we live in. A world of intolerance, conceit and dishonesty.

- As I said, the whole reasoning is nonsense.
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IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/28/2015 1:39:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
When lying is a part of the religion every Islamic post is in question. Christianity leaves no doubt. Lying to decieve is not okay period. It eliminates all doubt. The Quran even refers to Allah as "great deciever" many times. But u were already aware of this.
uncung
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9/28/2015 1:46:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 1:39:51 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
When lying is a part of the religion every Islamic post is in question. Christianity leaves no doubt. Lying to decieve is not okay period. It eliminates all doubt. The Quran even refers to Allah as "great deciever" many times. But u were already aware of this.

Lying is not allowed in Islam except in three circumtances.
It is the bible that says God is the deceiver.

"If a Prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet" (Ezekiel 14:9).

"O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me." (Jeremiah 20:7)

"God deceived Prophets to speak things in his name which were actually false (1 Kings 22:20-22; Ez. 14:9).

Jeremiah 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly DECEIVE (Nasha) you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence.
RuvDraba
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9/28/2015 3:47:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 12:32:32 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:48:48 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
- You're normally a reasonable person RuvDraba, that until you start speaking about religion. Your words suddenly turn into gibberish

Greetings, brother Yassine! Thank you for your considered comments and views, which of course I respect.

Unfortunately, in response to my broad summary reflections about the interactions of religion and evidentiary accountability, you offered neither a specific question nor an evidenced claim. So unfortunately, if you were hoping for an illuminating response, I regret that I can offer nothing specific nor substantial at this time.

Peace be upon you, gentle scholar,

Ruv.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/28/2015 4:32:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Unkung uses the word "decieve" in Jeremiah ah 23:39. So here are a lot of copy and pastes of many translations of this verse.

English Standard Version
therefore, behold, I will surely lift you up and cast you away from my presence, you and the city that I gave to you and your fathers.

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore behold, I will surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers.

King James Bible
Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I will surely forget you and throw away from My presence both you and the city that I gave you and your fathers.

International Standard Version
Therefore I'll surely forget you and cast you and the city I gave you and your ancestors out of my presence.

NET Bible
So I will carry you far off and throw you away. I will send both you and the city I gave to you and to your ancestors out of my sight.

GOD'S WORD" Translation
I will certainly forget you. I will throw you out of my presence and out of the city that I gave you and your ancestors.

JPS Tanakh 1917
therefore, behold, I will utterly tear you out, and I will cast you off, and the city that I gave unto you and to your fathers, away from My presence;

New American Standard 1977
"Therefore behold, I shall surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers.

Jubilee Bible 2000
therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will uproot you from my presence and the city that I gave you and your fathers:

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

American King James Version
Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

American Standard Version
therefore, behold, I will utterly forget you, and I will cast you off, and the city that I gave unto you and to your fathers, away from my presence:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore behold I will take you away carrying you, and will forsake you, and the city which I gave to you, and to your fathers, out of my presence.

Darby Bible Translation
therefore behold, I will utterly forget you, and I will cast you off, far from my face, and the city that I gave to you and to your fathers.

English Revised Version
therefore, behold, I will utterly forget you, and I will cast you off, and the city that I gave unto you and to your fathers, away from my presence:

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave to you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

World English Bible
therefore, behold, I will utterly forget you, and I will cast you off, and the city that I gave to you and to your fathers, away from my presence:

Young's Literal Translation
Therefore, lo, I -- I have taken you utterly away, And I have sent you out, And the city that I gave to you, And to your fathers, from before My face
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/28/2015 4:35:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jeremiah 23:39

Unkung's version:

Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly DECEIVE (Nasha) you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence.
uncung
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9/28/2015 4:47:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
King James 2000 Bible Jeremiah 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget (??) (Nasha) you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

The Hebrew word "Nasha" has the meanings to beguile, deceive and so forth. But when we read English Bible translations for Jer. 23:39 all of them use the word "forget?" Why don"t they give the true meaning, why do they have distort the verse and lie to people? Let"s now bring forth evidence from Hebrew Lexicons for the word "Nasha". Hebrew Lexicons on the word "Nasha" is to deceive.

"Nasha form can be meant : be deceived. to lead astray, to mislead to deceive, to seduce; to surprise, to oppress."

The word "Nasha"itself has certain connotations and echoes in the book of Jeremiah where it appears four other times (4:10; 23:39; 29:8; 49:16).
In 4:10 (God for a time permit[ting]" the people "to be deceived)
in 23:39 (Yahweh declares "I will deceive (Nasha) you and cast you away from my presence)

It is clear crystal from all this evidence that Yahweh is a deceiver. When the verse (Jeremiah 23:39) is not distorted.

Jeremiah 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly DECEIVE (Nasha) you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/28/2015 4:49:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ew International Version
"'By what means?' the LORD asked. "'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD.

Is God the deciever in this verse? No. God has a similar dialogue with Satan concerning Job. God did not attack Job. Satan did. This is the same type of situation. You can not place titles on God based on the motives and actions of a demonic spirit. Here is the fundamental diffetence that unkung wants you blind to. The Quran many, many, many times calls Allah, by name,"The great deciever". This s means Allah himself is the deciever and not a demonic being being the deciever.

Besides, the Quran refers to the Bible as good instruction and its followers as "people of the book". Islam had best hope the Bible is not evil or incorrect. The Quran's history and foundation is supposedly based on the Bible. Adam and Eve, etc. Islam according to Muhammed was the 3rd chapter and continuation of Judaism and Christianity. For aMudlim tolurch out at Christianity or the Bible is to reject MMuhammed'swords and worthy of death via Sharia Law.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/28/2015 4:53:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
He is using the exact technique that Satan used to tempt and challenge Jesus in the desert according to the Bible. Twisting a quote from the Bible. Jesus doesn't go for it. He quotes the very Old Testament that Satan is quoting to him with twists and Jesus says to Satan,"It is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."
Yassine
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9/28/2015 6:18:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 3:47:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:

Greetings, brother RuvDraba,

Unfortunately, in response to my broad summary reflections about the interactions of religion and evidentiary accountability, you offered neither a specific question nor an evidenced claim. So unfortunately, if you were hoping for an illuminating response, I regret that I can offer nothing specific nor substantial at this time.

- I did indeed make some inquiries. Refer to OP for details.

& peace be upon you too.
Current Debates:

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bulproof
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9/28/2015 7:39:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 4:53:47 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
He is using the exact technique that Satan used to tempt and challenge Jesus in the desert according to the Bible. Twisting a quote from the Bible. Jesus doesn't go for it. He quotes the very Old Testament that Satan is quoting to him with twists and Jesus says to Satan,"It is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

Who recorded that encounter?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
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9/28/2015 1:19:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 6:18:41 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/28/2015 3:47:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:

Greetings, brother RuvDraba,

Unfortunately, in response to my broad summary reflections about the interactions of religion and evidentiary accountability, you offered neither a specific question nor an evidenced claim. So unfortunately, if you were hoping for an illuminating response, I regret that I can offer nothing specific nor substantial at this time.

- I did indeed make some inquiries.

Yassine, perhaps it might help if you can summarise your understanding of the points you think I was making. Then, if you frame your questions against your understanding, I may be clearer on how to best to address your questions.

At the moment they seem so vague, I do not know how to answer them.
Yassine
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9/28/2015 9:41:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 1:19:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

Hello,

Yassine, perhaps it might help if you can summarise your understanding of the points you think I was making. Then, if you frame your questions against your understanding, I may be clearer on how to best to address your questions.

- I was hoping you be the one to elaborate on your claims. I am too lazy to even begin to think.

Peace.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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RuvDraba
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9/28/2015 9:45:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 9:41:36 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/28/2015 1:19:30 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

Hello,

Yassine, perhaps it might help if you can summarise your understanding of the points you think I was making. Then, if you frame your questions against your understanding, I may be clearer on how to best to address your questions.

- I was hoping you be the one to elaborate on your claims. I am too lazy to even begin to think.

With regret, I understand and accept that you are insufficiently interested in my post to contribute constructively to discussion.

I await a better day, my colleague, when the substance of my ideas may interest you enough that the burden of thought and respectful discourse will not overtax you.
bulproof
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9/29/2015 2:40:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/28/2015 4:53:47 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
He is using the exact technique that Satan used to tempt and challenge Jesus in the desert according to the Bible. Twisting a quote from the Bible. Jesus doesn't go for it. He quotes the very Old Testament that Satan is quoting to him with twists and Jesus says to Satan,"It is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

At 9/28/2015 4:53:47 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
He is using the exact technique that Satan used to tempt and challenge Jesus in the desert according to the Bible. Twisting a quote from the Bible. Jesus doesn't go for it. He quotes the very Old Testament that Satan is quoting to him with twists and Jesus says to Satan,"It is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

Who recorded that encounter?
Care to respond?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin