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taqiyya. Is this Practice Ok to any Atheists?

IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...
UtherPenguin
Posts: 4,017
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9/27/2015 10:25:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

"Can a believer be a coward? He said, "Yes, he can be coward. Then it was asked [To Muhammad] whether a believer could be a miser? He replied, "Yes, he can be a miser", it was then asked whether a believer could be a liar? He replied, "No, a believer cannot be a liar."
(Imam Malik, Mishkaat)

Taqqiya is only an aspect of the Shia branch, whom make up only 10-20% of the Muslim population. Not only that, but it doesn't even have to do with lying about Islam to non-believers, it just has to do with lying to save one's life.

Hazrat Abu Hurairah (Radhiyallaahu Anhu) narrates, in a hadith, that the Prophet (PBUH) said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three; whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; if you have trust in him, he proves to be dishonest."

In another hadith narrated by Hazrat Abu Hurairah(Radhiyallaahu Anhu), Prophet (PBUH) said, "Whoever does not give up false statements (i.e. telling lies), and evil deeds, and uttering bad words to others, Allah is not in need of his (fasting) leaving his food and drink."
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 10:25:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
UtherPenguin
Posts: 4,017
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9/27/2015 10:26:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hazrat Abdullah ibn Umar narrates that Allah"s Messenger(PBUH) said,

"When a man lies, the angel moves a mile from him because of the bad odour of what he has produced." Samura bin Jundub relates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"I saw (in a deream), two men came to me." Then the Prophet(PBUH) narrated the story (saying), "They said, `The person, the one whose cheek you saw being torn away (from the mouth to the ear) was a liar and used to tell lies and the people would report those lies on his authority till they spread all over the world. So he will be punished like that till the day of Ressurrection.`"
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 10:27:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Abdullah narrates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar."
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 10:34:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://quran.com...

Quran Surat Noor verse 7: "And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars"
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 11:11:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Say: "Verily, those who invent a lie against Allah will never be successful""

[Yunus 10:69]

http://quran.com...

It was narrated that Hafsa ibn "Aasim said: "The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "It is sufficient lying for a man to speak of everything that he hears.""
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
Yassine
Posts: 2,910
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9/27/2015 11:36:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:25:11 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

- I admire the effort. But, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Current Debates:

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UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 11:39:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 11:36:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:25:11 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

- I admire the effort. But, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Because?
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
Yassine
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9/27/2015 11:40:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 11:39:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 9/27/2015 11:36:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:25:11 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

- I admire the effort. But, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Because?

- You're trying to argue with an ignorant. It's like pouring sand into water.
Current Debates:

Freedom Of Religion: Secular Law/Society Vs. Islamic Law/Society :
* http://www.debate.org...

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* http://www.debate.org...
Yassine
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9/27/2015 11:41:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 11:39:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

Because?

- I meant, water into sand. LoL!
Current Debates:

Freedom Of Religion: Secular Law/Society Vs. Islamic Law/Society :
* http://www.debate.org...

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UtherPenguin
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9/27/2015 11:41:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 11:40:12 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 11:39:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 9/27/2015 11:36:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:25:11 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

- I admire the effort. But, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Because?

- You're trying to argue with an ignorant. It's like pouring sand into water.

True.
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama
uncung
Posts: 4,037
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9/28/2015 12:21:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

Taqiyya is practiced by Syiah, yet Syiah are not muslims.
Harikrish
Posts: 14,711
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9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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9/29/2015 1:55:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.

Okay. So what is taqiyya and are you practicing it now?
Harikrish
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9/29/2015 3:19:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2015 1:55:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.

Okay. So what is taqiyya and are you practicing it now?

It is well known;

"Muhammad"whose example as the "most perfect human" is to be followed in every detail"took an expedient view on lying. It is well known, for instance, that he permitted lying in three situations: to reconcile two or more quarreling parties, to placate one's wife, and in war.[11] According to one Arabic legal manual devoted to jihad as defined by the four schools of law, "The ulema agree that deception during warfare is legitimate " deception is a form of art in war."[12] Moreover, according to Mukaram, this deception is classified as taqiyya: "Taqiyya in order to dupe the enemy is permissible."
bulproof
Posts: 30,157
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9/29/2015 3:47:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2015 1:55:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.

Okay. So what is taqiyya and are you practicing it now?

As an atheist I reject your claim that gods exist. How could I possibly abide by a religious concept or requirement?
What is it about atheism that is so far beyond the comprehension of theists that every time they TRY to discuss it they make absolute fools of themselves?
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead
And the white knight is talking backwards
And the red queen's off with her head
Remember what the dormouse said
Feed your head, feed your head
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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9/29/2015 5:18:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2015 3:47:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/29/2015 1:55:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.

Okay. So what is taqiyya and are you practicing it now?

As an atheist I reject your claim that gods exist. How could I possibly abide by a religious concept or requirement?
What is it about atheism that is so far beyond the comprehension of theists that every time they TRY to discuss it they make absolute fools of themselves?

Choosing hope over hopelesness is not follish. Quite the contrary. Choosing a banana over a rock when you are hungry isn't foolish either. Picking the best of 2 options is indeed not foolishness at all.
bulproof
Posts: 30,157
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9/29/2015 5:21:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2015 5:18:45 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/29/2015 3:47:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 9/29/2015 1:55:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/28/2015 1:31:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:20:04 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Taqiyya the Act of Lying in Islam

Muslims are commanded to lie blantantly to Atheists and Christians, essentially all nonmuslims.

https://sites.google.com...

That is not true. Muslims are expected to defend their religion against infidels and are given 164 jihad verses they can use to justify their actions. But lying is not one of them.

Okay. So what is taqiyya and are you practicing it now?

As an atheist I reject your claim that gods exist. How could I possibly abide by a religious concept or requirement?
What is it about atheism that is so far beyond the comprehension of theists that every time they TRY to discuss it they make absolute fools of themselves?

Choosing hope over hopelesness is not follish. Quite the contrary. Choosing a banana over a rock when you are hungry isn't foolish either. Picking the best of 2 options is indeed not foolishness at all.

Can you desperately relate that to my post or should I treat it as the drivel it presents as?
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead
And the white knight is talking backwards
And the red queen's off with her head
Remember what the dormouse said
Feed your head, feed your head
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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9/29/2015 9:04:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2015 10:27:23 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Abdullah narrates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar."

Sayeth Allah the Great, or as the Quran calls him "The Great Deciever". In the Bible the title "Great Deciever" is used for Satan. Muslims believe they are the continuation of Judaism and Christianity. If this be true, then Allah, by definition and title and description, is no other than Satan himself.
UtherPenguin
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9/29/2015 11:09:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/29/2015 9:04:03 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/27/2015 10:27:23 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Abdullah narrates that the Prophet(PBUH) said,

"Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar."

Sayeth Allah the Great, or as the Quran calls him "The Great Deciever". In the Bible the title "Great Deciever" is used for Satan. Muslims believe they are the continuation of Judaism and Christianity. If this be true, then Allah, by definition and title and description, is no other than Satan himself.

Firstly, where is that verse? Citation please?

Secondly, Allah is only Arabic for God. Saying Allah, or saying God is almost completely interchangeable. If you don't trust me (which you probably dont't) then just ask any Arabic speaking Christian. If you read the Bible in Arabic they will say Allah just as often as the Quran does. Because language is the only difference between Allah and God.
Man with one chopstick go hungry
-Siddhartha Gautama