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Debate about God... interested?

Philosopher
Posts: 3
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1/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'd like to initiate a debate about the existence of God.

I have a pretty clear definition of the God of classical theism: Omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, timeless creator of the universe. However, in a past debate the definition of "God" was called into question, leading to misunderstanding and backtracking.

What I'd like to know is if there is anyone interested on debating the existence of God, and whether we can clear up the definition of God beforehand on this thread.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/22/2009 10:31:00 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
In the words of Napoleon Dynamite:

' What the frick! There's like an infinity of these here. Jeez!'
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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1/22/2009 12:01:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
What kind of debate? Are we talking Modal logic and ontological proofs? Sufficient reason and conception? Contingency and necessity?

I would say that, given Modal logic and using ontological proofs, God, as is described above, is reasonable to believe.

Seeing as how you are a self-described philosopher, this should be right up your alley.
Philosopher
Posts: 3
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1/23/2009 3:10:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
You can use any argument you so wish. I was thinking about using probabilistic arguments, but if you want to use a version of the ontological argument, then that's fine.

If we do debate, I would prefer it if you could put your arguments into the form of a syllogism, for purposes of clarification.
sen.mickeymouse
Posts: 1
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2/1/2009 5:12:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
do God really exists?
sometimes i ask this question,but i don't get any answer from heaven,does this mean that God do not exists ?
when we were studying intellectual revolution, a philosopher said "if there were no gods,it was necessary to invent one"
so it means that we invented god?
probably yes,no one can prove gods existence,except the bible.
but we don't know how credible the bible is.
who specifically wrote this book?this document?
can someone from the present testify that he/she had spoken to god?
o has seen him?
if so,show up and testify.
crackslide
Posts: 1
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2/9/2009 5:03:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I honestly dont believe in any God, but I do think that it is necessary, or at least was in past times to believe in sth or someone who could help us in hard times. Actually maybe that was the reason of why people started to believe.
All the religions talk about the same motives, and have almost the same values, so even if there wasn't a God we must admit that there's sth good about it, don't we?. -.-"
Slashed... not decapitated
PetIn_the_Box
Posts: 51
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2/9/2009 6:09:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/9/2009 5:03:05 PM, crackslide wrote:
I honestly dont believe in any God, but I do think that it is necessary, or at least was in past times to believe in sth or someone who could help us in hard times. Actually maybe that was the reason of why people started to believe.
All the religions talk about the same motives, and have almost the same values, so even if there wasn't a God we must admit that there's sth good about it, don't we?. -.-"

No, not at all.

12% of the world is atheistic.

88% of the world believes in a God.

0.2% of prison inmates are atheists.

88/6 = 14.6667

0.2 < 14.6667

Bad values^^
This is the place for a name, but I don't write one. We write our names in the sand, but they are washed away by the waves of the sea. The more of a name one makes for oneself, the less a name captures. I wrote my name, but I fear it, too, is gone; it is washed away with all of the other names. It is useless. It is nothing. But my name is not I, for I do not equate to nothing. My memory cannot be confined to a word. I do not wash away; I do not die, for I am but an entity and entities never die.
Forsaken
Posts: 4
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2/11/2009 7:30:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/9/2009 5:03:05 PM, crackslide wrote:
I honestly dont believe in any God, but I do think that it is necessary, or at least was in past times to believe in sth or someone who could help us in hard times. Actually maybe that was the reason of why people started to believe.
All the religions talk about the same motives, and have almost the same values, so even if there wasn't a God we must admit that there's sth good about it, don't we?. -.-"

so you rely on a god you say doesnt exist on the hope this fictional being will somehow reward ur good behavior, or as you say "values" which ill assume from your context are postive with a possible miracle? please explain...
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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2/11/2009 8:53:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/9/2009 6:09:37 PM, PetIn_the_Box wrote:
At 2/9/2009 5:03:05 PM, crackslide wrote:
I honestly dont believe in any God, but I do think that it is necessary, or at least was in past times to believe in sth or someone who could help us in hard times. Actually maybe that was the reason of why people started to believe.
All the religions talk about the same motives, and have almost the same values, so even if there wasn't a God we must admit that there's sth good about it, don't we?. -.-"

No, not at all.

12% of the world is atheistic.

88% of the world believes in a God.

0.2% of prison inmates are atheists.

88/6 = 14.6667

0.2 < 14.6667

Bad values^^

Wrong. In April 2001, the Office for National Statistics reported that agnostics/atheists/no-religionists are 3.84 times more likely to be convicted and jailed for committing a crime than a Christian.
Forsaken
Posts: 4
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2/11/2009 8:59:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/11/2009 8:53:49 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
Wrong. In April 2001, the Office for National Statistics reported that agnostics/atheists/no-religionists are 3.84 times more likely to be convicted and jailed for committing a crime than a Christian.

whats that prove? that christians were shown more lenency or that they were better at getting away with each other?
or do u mean agnostics/atheists/no-religionists are more likely to commit a crime?
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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2/11/2009 10:00:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Wrong. In April 2001, the Office for National Statistics reported that agnostics/atheists/no-religionists are 3.84 times more likely to be convicted and jailed for committing a crime than a Christian.

Link?
PetIn_the_Box
Posts: 51
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2/12/2009 1:17:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
http://www.holysmoke.org...

Mine is from the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Yours, InquireTruth?
This is the place for a name, but I don't write one. We write our names in the sand, but they are washed away by the waves of the sea. The more of a name one makes for oneself, the less a name captures. I wrote my name, but I fear it, too, is gone; it is washed away with all of the other names. It is useless. It is nothing. But my name is not I, for I do not equate to nothing. My memory cannot be confined to a word. I do not wash away; I do not die, for I am but an entity and entities never die.
Tin_Man
Posts: 45
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2/17/2009 10:59:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/11/2009 8:53:49 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
Wrong. In April 2001, the Office for National Statistics reported that agnostics/atheists/no-religionists are 3.84 times more likely to be convicted and jailed for committing a crime than a Christian.

There are so many reasons why this could be it's ridiculous. For instance, has it occurred to you that those in situations where they may commit a crime have, because of their situation, lost faith that God is watching out for them? If you find yourself with no money and having to sell drugs for a living just to make a wage, what reason is there to believe in God, exactly? It's a lot easier to believe in God when your life already is great, and since religion tends to be passed on through familial practices... well, you get my drift.

I'm also interested to see the statistics of criminals who are not religious versus criminals who are religious, but not necessarily Christian. After all, if the Buddhists had lower crime rates than Christians, would that mean that Buddhism is closer to divine truth than Christianity?

I would ALSO like to see the statistics for which crimes are being committed by whom. After all, when you say "crime" it could mean anything from jaywalking to theft to arson to murder to perjury. It would take a little more for me to believe that Christians are lower in EVERY crime than EVERYONE. I would bet dollars to donuts of a few crimes I can think of that would be more common amongst Christians than non-Christians.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/17/2009 11:11:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Christians are just people who are 'diagnosed' (sinners!)
So we are in a process of surrender to The King.
You guys love to talk about Christians but not Christ.
Why?
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/17/2009 11:15:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/17/2009 11:11:43 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Christians are just people who are 'diagnosed' (sinners!)
So we are in a process of surrender to The King.
You guys love to talk about Christians but not Christ.
Why?

Why must you give these bible style references in the middle of a heated argument? they're nice and all, but unnecessary.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Spaghettim0nst3r
Posts: 366
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2/17/2009 12:02:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/17/2009 11:11:43 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Christians are just people who are 'diagnosed' (sinners!)
So we are in a process of surrender to The King.
You guys love to talk about Christians but not Christ.
Why?

The "Christ" (a Title, not a name) you are referring to, generally isn't the one making a complete fool of himself on message boards (because he's been dead for a while, if he was ever alive).
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/17/2009 12:59:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm a fool for the one true living God.. who's fool are you? (that's rhetorical by the way, I know EXACTLY who's fool you are)
The Christ (anointed) Jesus is VERY much alive. Over 500 people saw him on one occasion. He rose from the dead with the keys to hell and DEATH itself in His hand.

"Behold I stand at the door and knock! If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and him with Me. " Revelations 3:20
The Cross.. the Cross.
Spaghettim0nst3r
Posts: 366
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2/17/2009 2:00:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/17/2009 12:59:09 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
I'm a fool for the one true living God.. who's fool are you? (that's rhetorical by the way, I know EXACTLY who's fool you are)

Yea man, you ~know~ a lot.
Except when we start asking a few questions, submitting what you ~know~ under the microscope, then you've got nothing but vomited bible verses and naked assertions.

Over 500 people saw him on one occasion.

Right, and on Halloween 500 people hear ghosts in the "haunted house" up the street as they walk through the building.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/18/2009 10:10:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I KNOW your bluffing. You've got the same lousy hand everyone else in this game has.. Sure you can keep throwing one down and picking one up but it's STILL a lousy hand. You gotta throw them down and say 'OK! I'm out.'
Then He will deal you a real beauty.
The Cross.. the Cross.
beem0r
Posts: 1,155
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2/18/2009 11:24:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 2/17/2009 12:59:09 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
"Behold I stand at the door and knock! If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and him with Me. " Revelations 3:20

Too bad he usually only knocks for most people when they're raised up as a believer, and even then many come to doubt the doctrines they were raised up with [such as it was with myself].
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/18/2009 1:41:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You too beem0r? this site is lousy with backsliders! Nietzsche, Marx and Darwin were all backsliders and look at the trouble they (continue to) caused.
You cannot rationalize what is on the other side of the door.. you have open it!
The Cross.. the Cross.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/26/2014 8:01:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/21/2009 10:04:42 AM, Philosopher wrote:
I'd like to initiate a debate about the existence of God.

I have a pretty clear definition of the God of classical theism: Omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, timeless creator of the universe. However, in a past debate the definition of "God" was called into question, leading to misunderstanding and backtracking.

What I'd like to know is if there is anyone interested on debating the existence of God, and whether we can clear up the definition of God beforehand on this thread.

I'm down. Send me the challenge.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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5/26/2014 8:10:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/26/2014 8:01:34 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/21/2009 10:04:42 AM, Philosopher wrote:
I'd like to initiate a debate about the existence of God.

I have a pretty clear definition of the God of classical theism: Omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, timeless creator of the universe. However, in a past debate the definition of "God" was called into question, leading to misunderstanding and backtracking.

What I'd like to know is if there is anyone interested on debating the existence of God, and whether we can clear up the definition of God beforehand on this thread.

I'm down. Send me the challenge.

Necroposting. Not cool.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/26/2014 8:13:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/26/2014 8:10:47 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/26/2014 8:01:34 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/21/2009 10:04:42 AM, Philosopher wrote:
I'd like to initiate a debate about the existence of God.

I have a pretty clear definition of the God of classical theism: Omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, timeless creator of the universe. However, in a past debate the definition of "God" was called into question, leading to misunderstanding and backtracking.

What I'd like to know is if there is anyone interested on debating the existence of God, and whether we can clear up the definition of God beforehand on this thread.

I'm down. Send me the challenge.

Necroposting. Not cool.

I thought, he still might be interested. You never know.